Difference between revisions of "Talk:Toaru Majutsu no Index"
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| − | [http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=1697525#post1697525 Illustration overview] reminder found in the project forum... |
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== How I enlist ? == |
== How I enlist ? == |
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| − | Well, you could really just post it unless you want specific clearance from the moderators at the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=2148&start=195 project forum]. |
+ | Well, you could really just post it unless you want specific clearance from the moderators at the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=2148&start=195 project forum]. For the Indonesian one, you should make a topic with something along the lines of "To Aru Majutsu no Index - Indonesian" at the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=29 Alternative Language Forum] for help with setting that up. |
If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. -Repose |
If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. -Repose |
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actuality I already completed translate english. Not so hard to make it to indonesia. but if I done where and how post it ? - ([[User:Kili|Kili]]) |
actuality I already completed translate english. Not so hard to make it to indonesia. but if I done where and how post it ? - ([[User:Kili|Kili]]) |
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| − | The Indonesian version? For that you have to create the Alternate Language Project similar to other Alternate Language Projects with the complete translation of the Project Page (as a naming example: <nowiki>[[To Aru Majutsu no Index ~ Bahasa Indonesia]]</nowiki> ([[To Aru Majutsu no Index ~ Bahasa Indonesia]])), Registration Page, a thread in the Alternate Language Subforum in the Baka-Tsuki Forum and at least one translated Chapter to get the approval to continue the project. |
+ | The Indonesian version? For that you have to create the Alternate Language Project similar to other Alternate Language Projects with the complete translation of the Project Page (as a naming example: <nowiki>[[To Aru Majutsu no Index ~ Bahasa Indonesia]]</nowiki> ([[To Aru Majutsu no Index ~ Bahasa Indonesia]])), Registration Page, a thread in the Alternate Language Subforum in the Baka-Tsuki Forum and at least one translated Chapter to get the approval to continue the project. --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 23:19, 9 December 2009 (UTC) |
it so hard for to made but I will keep trying. I need time to study about it. |
it so hard for to made but I will keep trying. I need time to study about it. |
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Should be just fine, as I assume you'll be translating to English like the other things you've done. I suppose you don't need the forum unless you want to set up a project page up or want to discuss translation terms, but still, not sure why the links don't work for you. --[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]] |
Should be just fine, as I assume you'll be translating to English like the other things you've done. I suppose you don't need the forum unless you want to set up a project page up or want to discuss translation terms, but still, not sure why the links don't work for you. --[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]] |
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| + | I've noticed some irregular grammar and English usage on several chapters, do the translators/lead editors for this series mind if I take an axe to these chapters? My English is pretty good, it's just that I may be a bit liberal in changing adjectives or phrasing of words --[[User:Asteradragon|Asteradragon]] 11:33, 6 April 2011 (EST) |
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| − | ==Chapter 2: Doubt_Lovers.== |
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| − | The link refer to "http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=To_Aru_Majutsu_no_Index:Volume5_'''Chapter1'''" So I think of them is wrong? |
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| − | --[[User:Hypernova|Hypernova]] 12:16, 14 February 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | Thanks EnigmaticRepose for fixing it!--[[User:Hypernova|Hypernova]] 00:32, 15 February 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | ==What the shit.== |
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| − | Why would a translation project start at volume 12 instead of volume 1? Imagine watching the Lord of the Rings movie series for the first time in your life...except instead of watching it starting from the first movie, you skip to the middle of the 3rd movie during the seige of Gondor. And as you sit through the movie you keep going "Oh this sword guy is kinda cool whats his name? And who is this Sauron guy?". |
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| − | you, whoever you are, are being horrendously rude and ungrateful for the fact that the translators (you seem pointed at [[user:Joay|Joay]] in particular) not only translate these novels, they do it for free. Besides that, volumes 1 through 6 are covered by the anime, and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Toaru_Majutsu_no_Index_light_novels] has synopses of all the novels. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 04:15, 11 March 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | Also since the translators have the power, they can decide what they like to translate, so if you could translate as well you could start with volume 1 if you like it... or with chapter x in volume y ;) So if you dont cant and dont like it you dont have to read it. I am gratful for that what we have, so should you too if you like to read more of those otherwise unobtainable unreadable volumes. --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 08:34, 11 March 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | hmm, now that volume 7 and 9 are translated and volume 10 is being translated, i'd like to ask if there is a specific reason that volume 8 was skipped.? It doesn't really matter though, since i was just wondering if maybe the story in 8 takes place in a different time than 7->9. other than that, i'm fine with waiting, since you're all (yeah, you translators ^_^ ) doing a fantastic job at translating this so far. keep up the good work. |
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| − | oh yeah, and... Ganbare!--[[User:AzraRillian|-AzraRillian - Transcend The Sin - "You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body." C.S. Lewis]] 03:18, 21 April 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | ===Took me five months to even notice this, sorry...=== |
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| − | The reason why I did Volumes 9 and 10 before volume 8 was basically because of a request (the first guy who PMed me when I worked on this project asked me whether I can do Volume 9 first. So, sorry...? |
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| − | And to the guy who has been complaining about Volume 1 not being translated first, well, no point talking about it now when out of a sudden, there are three guys working on volume 1 now (I'm really, really glad to have other people share the workload). Like what [[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] said, the anime has pretty much covered most of the important aspects, and since there's a sizeable fandom of it that can provide all sorts of information, you're not really in the dark regarding what has happened. The 'Lord of the Rings' idea doesn't really work since you would have most likely gone about trying to find out what's going on in order to answer the question of 'what's going on?' Or did you not even bother looking for it? |
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| − | Well, instead of complaining, you might as well do something about it if you can. Orders are nothing if the actions are not done, you know. We're not entitled to do this for you, we're not even paid to do this. We're doing this only because we want to. We translators here are like Kamijo Touma, we don't have a reason to do things, we just do it. |
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| − | --[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 17:30, 12 September 2010 (UTC) |
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== What tense to use? == |
== What tense to use? == |
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Regarding that a discussion was recently started in the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3547 forum] too --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 18:11, 17 November 2010 (UTC) |
Regarding that a discussion was recently started in the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3547 forum] too --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 18:11, 17 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | == About translating. == |
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| − | well to be honest, i dont know all that much japanese so i cant really translate, i however have atlas, so the question is can i use atlas as a raw draft and then start editing from there? |
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| − | another dumb question i have is if there's a reason why the novels are listed only up to volume 13? because i can find them easily on hongfire or emule if anyone needs them. |
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| − | No, atlas will just lead to shit translations and cause more trouble then what's it worth - response |
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| − | Unfortunately, translation software will normally make it harder for anyone to translate. You can use it from time to time to check some harder words, but the best is if you have knowledge of Japanese, Chinese, or Korean (Correct me on this one if I'm wrong.) and translate it manually, since it's hard for anyone to start working on it if they don't know what the text is about in the first place. ~Teh Ping |
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| − | You could try it, but I would wonder and call you very lucky if the outcome isnt gibberish --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 09:23, 24 March 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | == I need illustrations for Volume 10 == |
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| − | Exactly what's written on it. Would the uploader kindly upload the illustrations of the other volumes? Many thanks in advance.~Teh Ping |
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| − | would it be enough a link of megaupload volumes 1-16 and with the illustration? anyway heres the link: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2AS0PZD7 |
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| − | -ark |
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| − | == Pic translation == |
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| − | Ah, could someone translate the pics too, if there is on them something to translate, please? --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 05:54, 20 April 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | Most the pictures just have quotes from the novel, with additional tiny descriptions, like 'Academy City Tokiwadai Student' or 'English Purist "Church of Necessary Evil (Necessarius)' and the like, so you aren't missing much. It's really just a fit it in the context after you read it, as they're supposed to be teasers for the story anyway (which is why they're placed in the beginning). |
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| − | Hm, I thought it would be nice - like we have it for Sword Art Online especially since we dont have translations for all volumes, so some teasers would be nice ;). Have meant only pics like those: [[:Image:Index v01 002-003.jpg|Image 1]]; [[:Image:Index v01 004-005.jpg|Image 2]]; [[:Image:Index v01 006-007.jpg|Image 3]] --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 10:33, 20 April 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | == Just a slight concern. == |
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| − | As Joay and I are busy with our own stuff, I suppose that there should be some sort of a Project Supervisor around to keep check of certain stuff. There will be updates in the future, as Twi will continue to translate this series (hopefully), but I hope that there's someone to keep this series in check, since it's no longer a 'small' project anymore (I guess, since YMMV). ~Teh Ping |
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| − | == Spanish section request == |
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| − | I would like to start a spanish section for the novels.--[[Special:Contributions/190.41.2.140|190.41.2.140]] 22:51, 26 May 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | You should make a topic with something along the lines of "To Aru Majutsu no Index - Spanish" at the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=29 Alternative Language Forum] for help with setting that up. Registering may also be a good idea. An Indonesian one was also set up, so you could use that as a reference. --EnigmaticRepose |
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| − | == I'll try to translate a bit == |
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| − | Currently my japanese is iffy at best, but as i'm studying it might as well give it a shot.I'll try to pick up the 1st chapter of volume one (no one's doing it right?). I'm asking here first as well, i don't know if i can manage it yet. |
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| − | If i manage to somehow not embarrass myself too much doing that i'll register, and work on the rest of the volume. |
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| − | Again, i can't be sure i'll manage it so... best try it out first then see.--[[User:AADragon|AADragon]] 16:35, 9 August 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | No one would say something against it, just feel free to ge ahead, but best would be to register the chapter before, even if it is not very probable that some other translator would translate it anytime soon, but wonder happens sometime, so just to be safe ;) --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 20:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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==Thanks for your work!!== |
==Thanks for your work!!== |
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At this point, I can say that the translators will surpass Index II(by JCStaff) in covering the novels :) |
At this point, I can say that the translators will surpass Index II(by JCStaff) in covering the novels :) |
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| + | another fan of Teh_Ping and Joay, thank you very much for all of the great work ^^)/ |
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| − | == Translations? == |
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| + | Just wanted to tip my hat to Js06, in recognition of his speed (averages a volume in under 2 weeks) and his grasp of colloquial English. [[Special:Contributions/75.92.217.27|75.92.217.27]] 14:34, 23 May 2013 (CDT) |
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| − | I'm new here, and I want to translate some stuff. |
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| − | I was reading the chinese version and randomly decided to translate V1C4 from Chinese to English. |
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| + | THANK YOU FOR THE TRANSLATION Love you guys <3 |
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| − | Do I need some sort of clearance? Or can I just go ahead and upload my stuff (especially since my translation quality is most definitely sub-par)? |
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| + | ==Consensus: Past or Present?== |
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| − | ===Go ahead and just upload it=== |
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| + | '''Please Vote [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3547 poll]''' |
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| + | ---- |
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| + | With six active translators and three editors, this project needs to come to an agreement regarding tense usage. Do we stick to present tense, or do we shift to past tense?--Tactician J 10:21, 4 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | For me, it's more of past for what just happened and present for what happens during the sequence. I also use a 'present future tense'. Next vote?--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 11:21, 4 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | The editors will be helping out with the language. I'll also help you proofread it if you want. |
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| + | I'm all for present as usual, but as I've said before, I can work with either. I get more attached to present tense stories, anyway. If we do end up agreeing on present tense, we might want to put it somewhere on the main page, and even in commentary tags by the editor list for extra insurance, as odds are potential editors/translators don't check the talk page until someone actually uses it. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]] |
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| − | Over here, there's no need for any bureaucratic red tape. Any translator can just upload their stuff here, so you can just upload it. |
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| + | I've only just realised/remembered there's a talk page here ^.^; I'm voting for past tense as that's what I'm used to, and that from what I can gather from the '''official''' Chinese translated Index Novels I have on hand right now they use past tense as well. It'll be easier for me to work in past tense. --[[User:Flere821|Flere821]] 09:16, 17 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | EDIT: Still having a bit of trouble with the formatting, garr... |
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| + | Regarding that a discussion was recently started in the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3547 forum] too --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 18:12, 17 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | --[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 03:51, 11 September 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | ==Inserting hidden page numbers into the text?== |
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| − | == Some Question == |
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| + | Is it possible for the translators to mark where the pages start and end? That would enable me to look up the original lines more easily, and I'd like to try making some nice-looking PDFs down the road... --Tactician J 14:28, 8 December 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | I could go through eventually and help with that if I stop being lazy and when the tense issue is resolved. Anyway, I did a small preview of how it would look on parts 9–10 of volume 16's chapter 1. Basically, lines can be cut off randomly in the middle of the sentence (or words for that matter), so don't feel too reliant on the original formatting. Not to mention that every other page has the two titles for the chapter. And out of curiosity, how would you do the illustrations? Some colored ones have three-page-spreads and seeing an illustration after the part it happens in the text just isn't the same as seeing it as you turn the page, so would you use a two-page style, two-pages for just illustrations with the text page, or just one page at a time? —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]] 14:51, 12 December 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | Er.... So, I already translated about three chapter and half from the 2nd Volume... |
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| − | and the question is... How do I upload it? Any clues? |
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| + | Text pages get single pages, but two-/three-page illustration spreads will be fused together, more or less. --Tactician J 15:03, 28 December 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | ===Here's what you need=== |
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| + | ==Thought processes== |
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| − | http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Format_guideline#Wiki_Editing_Tips |
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| + | Just wondering if I am the only one that's slightly uncomfortable with how thoughts are differentiated from the rest of the text in different ways. It seems that the most common methods of indicating thoughts are either in (parenthesis), ''italics'', or ''(italics and parenthesis)''. Perhaps we can come to some kind of a standard for this... or is there a difference as to how certain thought processes are? (I don't have access to the Japanese text or cultural knowledge to know...) -[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 23:12, 15 December 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | In the original texts, most thoughts are in parentheses but some also aren't, just like how most spoken dialogue is in quotes but some isn't. English novels also do it (the quoteless dialogues, though thoughts don't have to be emphasized with italics or parentheses), but I think it's more of a slight difference to not feel so abusive with them during dialogue/thought scenes. The italics is just something we started doing (I don't remember why?) and aren't in the original format. I don't think Japanese use italics at all, but they do have a way to emphasize certain parts of a line without just bolding it, though I forget what it's called. If you have any lines in mind that you'd like to me to look up and post as examples, go ahead, though it'll be in Japanese. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]] |
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| − | 1. First, go to the volume that you want to upload. |
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| + | Occassionally some do use bold, but most of the time, most novels use 『』 or 【】 parentheses for emphasis. Italics look intuitive for monologue (and yes the Japanese don't use them). I've used it right from the start in LOLH, because I saw it in Toradora. Some CSR pages I saw use parentheses, but '''Italics''' just feel right to me. I've not read enough Index to know how the author presents thoughts. But based on your description, my guess is those in parentheses are First-Person monologue, while those that aren't are narrator-reported thoughts. --[[User:Larethian|Larethian]] 04:11, 16 December 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | 2. Do you see the edit button on the top right hand corner? Click it. |
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| + | Wow, never thought they might be monologues. I normally associate monologues with just quotation marks since they're said aloud. Now I'm even more confused as to what to do/how to read, haha. --[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 06:00, 16 December 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | 3. Look at the 'Internal link' section, that is how you're going to add hyperlinks. (You can look at the other volumes for reference) |
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| + | == british vs american english == |
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| − | 4. If you did it right, the words should be in red, click on it. |
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| + | which english should we use: part of the project is in american english and part in british. It's not really that important to me which, but we should probably settle on one or the other. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 20:29, 20 December 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | 5. Now, you should be in a new page. Click on the 'create' button at the top. |
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| + | british will be better because they don`t use america--[[User:Cognitio|Cognitio]] |
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| − | 6. Upload the text that you have already translated. (Make sure to press 'enter' once after every paragraph so that it's easier to |
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| − | read.) |
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| + | Do you mean to say that the story has English characters but no (few?) American characters? That makes some sense.--[[User:CarVac|CarVac]] 22:16, 20 December 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | 7. Next, the headings. At the wiki editing tips page, look at the 'headings' section (well, duh). |
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| + | American English. See the [[Format_guideline#Spelling_and_Grammar|Format guideline]]. [[User:Vaelis|Vaelis]] 13:33, 21 December 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | 8. If you see the format used on all B-T texts, you'll probably get an idea of how to do it. (Just copy what they do.) |
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| + | That standard was established before we had multiple projects, and was left in. given that it was written for when we only had one project, should it be up to each project to decide which version? |
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| − | 9. For pictures, it's under 'thumbnail image', the 'picture' would be from the illustrations of the volume that's available here. If I want a picture from say 'Volume 1 page 031', the format would be <nowiki>[[Image:Index_v01_031.jpg|thumb]]</nowiki> |
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| + | the original line was this: |
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| + | :* '''Due to the nature of this website, and the nationality of the majority of Editors & Readers the standard spelling lexicon for <u>this project</u> will be based upon American English as defined by the Fourth Edition of the [http://www.bartleby.com/61/ American Heritage Dictionary]''' --13:18, 26 April 2006 by [[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]] |
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| + | the current version in place is |
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| − | 10. For a footer, just go to any completed chapter here, copy the scripts for the footer, and make the necessary edits. |
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| + | :Due to the nature of this website, and the nationality of the majority of Editors and Readers, the standard spelling lexicon for <u>this Wiki</u> will be based upon American English as defined by the Fourth Edition of the [http://www.bartleby.com/61/ American Heritage Dictionary] --5:37, 16 March 2007 by [[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]] |
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| + | which was changed as part of the original update altering the format page from a Haruhi only version to a version for all projects. |
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| + | also, [[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]] stopped editing a year before this project was created: [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=To_Aru_Majutsu_no_Index&dir=prev&action=history here] vs [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Smidge204 here]. and thus the format page, in it's current form, would not have considered a project that might have reason to use british english. |
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| − | If you need any more help, you can pm me. |
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| + | As the current text came about due to a change regarding the style of the formatting page, and not as an actual policy decision, and as the party who made the original style decision is no longer on the wiki to ask, I argue that the statement currently on the format page can be overridden by the people working on a particular project, especially if there is reason beyond personal preference, as has been argued above. |
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| − | --[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 15:31, 11 September 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | thus we come back to the question: which would the contributors prefer for this project? --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 14:42, 21 December 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | ---- |
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| + | Ah stop arguing. As the one responsible for all of these, I'll take the charges (my job anyway, haven't updated the Supervisor tag) |
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| − | VOLUME 11 |
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| + | I have already PMed Big Boss regarding this, so if he doesn't have any personal preference regarding this, I will make the decision.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 14:45, 21 December 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | english Volume 11 has been sabed over by the spanish version. Any chance of recovery? |
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| + | To quote the PM: |
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| − | ==Erm, excuse me, but you lost me there== |
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| + | [quote="thelastguardian"]Well, if they are from England, of course they speak British English :p . Seems perfectly logical to me.[/quote] |
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| − | Is there anything wrong? Since when do we have a Spanish section? |
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| + | There you have it. I'm going to introduce a new set of guidelines soon. |
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| − | --[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 17:41, 12 September 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | I'd let the England-based characters speak British English, but what about the narration? --Tactician J 15:03, 28 December 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | ---- |
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| − | Not sure, but I think they're talking about all the chapter titles being in gratuitous Italian. |
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| + | Honestly, I don't like the idea of switching languages here and there so easily, feels weird to me because it's like the characters are in a different realm from the readers.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 15:57, 28 December 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | ---- |
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| − | Actually, check the scan of the [http://img55.imageshack.us/f/009xf5.jpg/ original table of contents]. You'll see that it's actually in said gratuitous Italian. (This may be incorrect, but I doubt it) --[[User:MerrickXasis|MerrickXasis]] |
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| + | == Terminology == |
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| − | ---- |
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| + | In Volume 14 Chapter 3 Part 4, Tatemiya Saiji is referred to as "Substitute Pope". He was previously referred to in Volumes 7 and 11 as "substitute Supreme Pontiff" (likewise, Kanzaki Kaori is referred to as "Supreme Pontiff"). If the Japanese writing for these terms is the same in each instance, then it would be best to pick a standard translation and use that. |
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| − | Oh that, that's what you guys meant. Yes, it's supposed to be in gratuitous Italian, since the plot setting is in Italy (Before you guys start blaming me for spoiling it, the prologue of Volume 11 will be uploaded in 4 hours.)--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 09:21, 13 September 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | --[[User:Stiyl|Stiyl]] 05:31, 6 March 2011 (UTC) |
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| − | ==To Aru Majutsu No Index Volume 3== |
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| + | Edit: |
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| − | Can You work on volume 3. Sorry for asking, because I love this arc. --anonymous |
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| + | Also "Acqua of the Back" (Volume 14 Epilogue) versus "Acqua of the Rear". |
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| + | --[[User:Stiyl|Stiyl]] 06:21, 6 March 2011 (UTC) |
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| − | the sisters arc is great, but, we have it already in two separate manga and the anime. new content would be my preference. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 15:00, 22 October 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | It's Supreme Pontiff and Acqua of the Back, according to the TamnI wiki. We follow their spellings and terminology, as far as I know. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 06:37, 6 March 2011 (UTC) |
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| − | Ah, we'll see how it goes. Most likely, I'll leave it as training for some new translator. I'm planning to be more of a drill sergeant for these new translators, so, get ready.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 15:54, 22 October 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | Ah, alright then. I've been avoiding looking at the wiki because every time I look at it, I accidentally read another spoiler. |
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| + | --[[User:Stiyl|Stiyl]] 04:13, 12 March 2011 (UTC) |
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| − | Ah, I know about the anime and manga but I love to read more. But anyway Thank^^. I will wait for anyone to translate it. |
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| + | ==Religion vs Denomination== |
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| − | ==Consensus: Past or Present?== |
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| + | I've seen it multiple times through the series, and the following stood out the most: "The three largest religions of Christianity have finally joined forces." Technically, the only Religion at play here is Christianity, The Anglican Church, The Roman Catholic Church and The Russian Orthodox Church are all denominations of Christianity, not religions of Christianity (see |
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| − | With six active translators and three editors, this project needs to come to an agreement regarding tense usage. Do we stick to present tense, or do we shift to past tense?--Tactician J 10:21, 4 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_denomination) |
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| + | --[[User:Draringi|Draringi]] 15:47, 4 July 2011 (UCT) |
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| + | "The three largest factions of Christianity have finally joined forces." |
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| − | For me, it's more of past for what just happened and present for what happens during the sequence. I also use a 'present future tense'. Next vote?--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 11:21, 4 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | Better? |
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| + | [[User:Kokonice|Kokonice]] 16:28, 4 July 2011 (UCT) |
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| + | That is correct. For me, I put it as 'sect' to make it as unrealistic though. |
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| − | I'm all for present as usual, but as I've said before, I can work with either. I get more attached to present tense stories, anyway. If we do end up agreeing on present tense, we might want to put it somewhere on the main page, and even in commentary tags by the editor list for extra insurance, as odds are potential editors/translators don't check the talk page until someone actually uses it. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]] |
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| + | My vicar's going to give me one long sermon if he finds out that the 'model student' is actually doing this series...--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 16:41, 4 July 2011 (UCT) |
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| − | I've only just realised/remembered there's a talk page here ^.^; I'm voting for past tense as that's what I'm used to, and that from what I can gather from the '''official''' Chinese translated Index Novels I have on hand right now they use past tense as well. It'll be easier for me to work in past tense. --[[User:Flere821|Flere821]] 09:16, 17 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | @Kokonice: I was thinking "The three largest denominations of Christianity have finally joined forces.", but anything other than religion is an improvement --[[User:Draringi|Draringi]] 01:23, 6 July 2011 (UCT) |
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| − | Regarding that a discussion was recently started in the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3547 forum] too --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 18:12, 17 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | == |
+ | == nicer navbar == |
| + | [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] was nice and fixed the mess I made into this great navbar: |
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| − | I know this must be annoying being asked this but could someone work on doing Volume 14? |
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| + | {{Toaru Nav}} |
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| + | Shall we use this? I can't see any downsides.--[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 07:31, 17 August 2011 (CDT) |
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| + | Other than it looking like a wikipedia Navbar (with all the additional navs, I have no problems with it, go for it then.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 07:36, 17 August 2011 (CDT) |
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| − | I don't think anyone is doing this at the moment, volumes 1,SS1,15, & 22 seem to be under active or semi-active translation, but volume 14 is probably coming soon. admitedly, it's just a guess, but as it will be the first volume not in the first season untranslated after SS1 is done, it will probably get done soon. If you can translate, however, feel free to start, no one has registered for it. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 06:38, 5 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | How should we add the official parody to the nav bar? in with side stories? under it's own section? a subsection of sidestories? just keep it left out? --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] ([[User talk:Saganatsu|talk]]) 22:38, 26 February 2013 (CST) |
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| − | == Churches == |
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| + | The "by Kazuma Kamachi" added to series name broke the nav bar linking to the series section, so when click on the new testament title it won't scroll down to the correct section. --[[User:Shadowblade|Shadowblade]] ([[User talk:Shadowblade|talk]]) 09:29, 21 May 2014 (CDT) |
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| − | To the translators and editors: both the anglican church and russian orthodox church exists :[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_England],[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Orthodox_Church] exist. they are not made up by the author. (technically the anglican church's proper name is the 'Church of England', and is the leader of the 'Anglican Communion'). I'm quite certain also that the Roman Catholic Church exists also, being a lapsed member. The Amakusa Church is made up though: it was named after an island of japan where the heads of executed christians were buried in 1637 [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amakusa]. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 14:19, 5 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | == Index Project Page Renovations == |
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| − | Well, I don't really know how to explain this, but here's a post by an AS user called Thirdlc, which I find to be very good in explaining it. |
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| + | This is not really an update but more of a summary of the recent changes that have been made to the Index Main Page. |
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| − | "The author uses coined words like 十字教, イギリス清教, ローマ正教 and ロシア成教, instead of actual words like キリスト教 (Christianity), 英国国教会 (Church of England), ローマ・カトリック (Roman Catholic Church), ロシア正教 (Russian Orthodox Church). |
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| + | :*'''Modified opening paragraph to better reflect the current standing of the series in regards to franchise material and recent awards. Extra information has been hidden in a collapsed-on-load table. (Page Space Saved)''' |
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| − | |||
| + | :*Greatly expanded Awards section with past and recent Kono LN ga Sugoi! Rankings |
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| − | I don't like it that those are directly referred, ignoring the author's intention. |
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| + | :*'''Placed Awards for different years in collapsed-on-load tables with clickable custom toggles to open/close years. (Page Space Saved)''' |
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| − | |||
| + | :*Placed great portion of the list of updates into a collapsed-on-load table with clickable custom toggles titled 'Older Updates.' <strike>Due to compatability isses with the Firefox Browser, the Updates Section Collapsing table itself shouldn't be placed in div tags.</strike><span style="color:red;">Update: Section is now placed in div tags after site was updated--[[User:OH&S|OH&S]] ([[User talk:OH&S|talk]]) 20:10, 14 January 2014 (CST)</span> |
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| − | Looking at these names, it's possible that the author just wants to make them end with "seikyou" and there is not much meaning in 清. |
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| + | :*'''Split the novel sections into different sub-sections with First Series headings suggested by Teh Ping. Each sub-section is a collapsible table with clickable custom toggles. (Page Space Saved when collapsed)''' |
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| − | |||
| + | :*Novel Sections collapsible tables are open-on-load due to some readers using the Table of Contents (ToC) to navigate. ToC links do not work unless collapsible table is open. |
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| − | イギリス清教 (Igirisu [B]seikyou[/B]), ローマ正教 (Roma [B]seikyou[/B]), ロシア成教 (Roshia [B]seikyou[/B]), 天草式十字凄教 (Amakusa-shiki juuji [B]seikyou[/B]) " |
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| + | :*'''ToC does NOT reflect the new subsections as a formatting issue leads to the BakaReader EX App not functioning properly for the Index novels. Problems that occurred when this was being tested should not be happening anymore.'''<span style="color:red;">Small Update: BakaReader EX seems to have updated the App to handle the previous layout of the ToC. But I am fine with things as they are right now.--[[User:OH&S|OH&S]] ([[User talk:OH&S|talk]]) 19:28, 25 December 2013 (CST)</span> |
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| − | |||
| + | :*Created and added a Master toggle that shows which sections are open/closed and allows for quick collapsing of the novel sections. |
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| − | --[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 11:26, 10 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | :*'''Added light novel cover illustrations opposite novel content, similar to other Baka-Tsuki Pages.''' |
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| − | |||
| + | :*Added small 'Back to Contents' links throughout page for those that want them. |
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| − | *No hand facepalm...* |
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| + | :*'''Changed image next to New Testament intro description. (Page Space Saved)''' |
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| − | |||
| + | :*Place Inactive translators into collapsed-on-load table. (Page Space Saved) |
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| − | Well, to any editor, I'm going to need your help here. |
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| + | :*'''Place Editors in side by side wikitables (Page Space Saved)''' |
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| − | |||
| + | :*Placed Series Overview section in Collapsed-on-Load Tables with clickable custom toggles. Novels that have not been completely translated stay outside of the tables. (Page Space Saved) |
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| − | For all the 'Amakusa Catholics' change them into the 'Amakusa-style Church'. |
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| + | A character's introduction section idea was thrown out there by me. However, considering the large amount of changes already made to the page in the last month, the idea was quickly withdrawn from this set of edits. The idea may be put out there again when a new anime for the Index franchise is announced; however there is currently no timeframe for this. For those still interested in what a theoretical character introduction section for Toaru Majutsu no Index would look like, head to my user page. It is currently still in beta stage. The above edits have been okayed by supervisor Teh Ping. '''As of now, the renovation period is over.'''<br>''Toaru Kagaku no Accelerator begins in the next issue of Dengeki Daioh; NT Volume 9 is released on January 10; Funimation has announced Index II and Movie; the 10th Anniversary of the entire franchise will be on April 10th, 2014.''<br>--[[User:OH&S|OH&S]] ([[User talk:OH&S|talk]]) 22:56, 18 December 2013 (CST) |
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| − | |||
| − | Anyone got any other way to translate the rest, or should we stick to the terms given in volume 7?--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 14:30, 10 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | |||
| − | Ah--[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 14:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | |||
| − | That could need a [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3514 guideline discussion]... ;) --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 17:01, 10 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | |||
| − | I think this needs to be translated consistently between the volumes. A guideline discussion seems necessary. Just because Vol. 7 was translated first doesn't mean that it's done appropriately (I haven't even looked, so couldn't venture an opinion). Likewise, I would hesitate to buy into a 'canon' translation by a Japanese author - church names tend to be archaic English, for one thing, which is not well covered by Japanese style English education. |
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| − | |||
| − | My take, now that I see some of the source: 教 seems to be used in the way that we use ''teaching,'' ''rite,''(compare 'rites' of Freemasonry) or even (religious) ''tradition'' in English. So maybe translate イギリス清教 as 'English Puritan rite,' 'English Puritan church,' or 'English Puritan teaching.' By extension, that would lead to 'Roman Orthodox rite'/'Roman Orthodox church' and 'Russian Institutional rite/church' (I'm having a tough time translating the on reading of 成 into something that isn't 'orthodox' in this context.) Likewise, 凄教 translates pretty well as 'cult' for me. Did a little googling and found this page [http://toarumajutsunoindex.wikia.com/wiki/Amakusa-Style_Remix_of_Church] which seems to agree with my 'cult' definition. So the 'Amakusa cult.' |
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| − | |||
| − | By analogy, It seems obvious that the author is ''suggesting'' real churches, but is very careful not to use their common names in Japanese, I would guess both to avoid angry adherents of the real churches and to help with the alternate universe separation of realities. For example, ロシア成教 is practically synonymous with the meaning of 'Russian Orthodox Church' but just happens to not be the way it is written in Japanese. It seems that we would want a similar obfuscation in the translation for the same reasons. -[[User:Senile seinen|Senile seinen]] 16:58, 17 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | |||
| − | I just want to give my two cents to agree with the character 教 itself translating to cult. It's used quite commonly in Chinese text to such effect. However, I believe the only problem in doing so would be that cults in the English language are usually seen as heretical and some organizations might not fit that light. -[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 17:30, 17 November 2010 |
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| − | |||
| − | Well, I should be resting, but since this is important, I'll give an answer. |
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| − | |||
| − | The so-called canon translations aren't invented by me or Joay or any other translator. When I said Volume 7, I meant the chapter titles of volume 7. The names on the main page, they're canon, we didn't do anything except removing the japanese text. Of course, if we're to go by our own common knowledge, cult would be the better term, but it'll feel a lot less familiar. |
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| − | <br> |
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<br> |
<br> |
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| + | == Volume 11 Notes == |
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| − | Why are these religions named as 'cults'? As someone who has Chinese as my first language, I haven't came across something like the character '教' being equivalent to that... (Or I just can't remember it - can anyone give some examples?) |
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| − | But yeah, in canon these Churches are for all intents and purposes 'religions' and not 'cults' as the English speakers understand it. |
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| − | Maybe we can make some sort of 'need-to-know' translation notes for readers on the Index Novels' main page if this issue becomes a serious one? Just putting it out there the Churches in this universe is not the ones equivalent to Real-Life's ones. In the Official Chinese Translated Volume 1 of TAMNI (pg30, next to a illustration page of Index) I have on hand there's a Note saying all churches mentioned in this series are made-up ones by the author. |
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| − | Also, I can vouch for the English spellings being correct (I have a hard copy of the Official Chinese translated Index Novel Vol7) given in Vol7 of the Churches are as the person above me has said - so I think what we have right now should stay. --[[User:Flere821|Flere821]] 05:27, 18 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | Now, not to be rude to Teh_ping or anything since he did so much of the translation work on this series, but volume 11 has several notes on Christianity. I question why these are in the text. I mean at most I would expect them to be translator notes at the bottom, though I wonder if they even belong there as they're notes on well, the bible, rather than anything in the series. |
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| − | Have you read the Jing Yong novels? Condor heroes etc? The Ming Cult gets referenced quite often -[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 07:13, 18 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | (Teh_ping: For your information, he wasn’t. He was one of the Seventy, not Twelve) |
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| − | Its Japanese then maybe the meaning of '教' is different between Japanese and Chinese? (Rikaichan says for that "teach", "faith", "doctrine") And if the Churches are realy made up by the author shouldnt then イギリス清教, ローマ正教, ロシア成教 and 天草式十字凄教 be British Puritan, Roman Orthodox, Russian 成(?) and Amakusa(n) 凄 (? unorthodox) faith or doctrine instead of Roman Catholic and Russian Orthodox Church? --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 09:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | (Teh_ping: for more information, read Genesis 18:16 to 19:29) |
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| − | No no, Kanji used by Japanese have basically the same meaning in Chinese. In Chinese, that character does indeed mean teach, doctrine, etc. It depends on how it is used. It is really difficult to draw meaning from one character, it depends on how it is used along with other characters before one can drawn meaning from it. -[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 17:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | (Teh_ping: In Sodom) |
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| − | --- |
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| + | (Teh_ping: She got turned into a pillar of salt) |
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| − | I haven't came across those examples you (Snorca) mentioned, but from what I looked up in a Chinese -> English dictionary (Granted, this particular reference book is from 1994 so it's more than a decade old...) the character '教' doesn't have the meaning of cult... and as far as I know from other sources the Chinese term for 'cult' is '邪教', the characters can literally be translated into 'evil religion'. The character '教' alone doesn't mean 'cult' but just 'religion' I think. |
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| + | (Teh_ping: Nope, Jesus here did carry the Cross up the hill himself.) |
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| − | But precise meaning/s of the words aside, IMO for all intents and purposes these 'religious organisations', for a lack of better term right now, are similar in structure to real-life churches, even if they're not named the same. These organisations are churches in canon (in terms of influence, history and other such aspects), not cults, and should probably be called as 'churches'. And to prevent mixing up with Real-Life versions maybe some other name can be introduced, but with the word 'church' included? Or like I suggested earlier we can just note the differences between the ToaruVerse Churches and the Real-Life Churches on the TAMNI main page? |
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| + | --[[User:Kaloo|Kaloo]] ([[User talk:Kaloo|talk]]) 20:23, 31 December 2013 (CST) |
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| − | That reminds me, the novels calls 'Christianity' (for a lack of better term to describe the religion that is born from the death of the Son of God is called , the name 'Jesus' is never mentioned in the novels and is always refered to as the 'Son of God') the 'Religion of the Cross', ie '十字教', instead of the usual Chinese version '基督教'. Maybe we should change that in our translations as well somehow? --[[User:Flere821|Flere821]] 21:57, 18 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | They should be translation notes at the bottom. If anything, editors just haven't gotten around to fixing this volume (in fact, many of the middle volumes haven't seen any real edits in quite a while). As for the fact they're notes on Christianity, it's best to include them. What may or may not be common knowledge doesn't necessarily hold true for people in other parts of the world. |
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| − | Yeah, as I've said, the word cult will have problems because it has a negative connotation in it based on how the mass media portrays it. Not all cults are evil though, religions would refuse to be classified as a cult, but in essence of the word, they technically are cults. Cults are basically a group with religious beliefs, but are somewhat considered strange. It had been given a negative image due to how most religions (not gonna name the most obvious one) really, really hate how people stray from their practices. |
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| + | --[[User:Skies|Skies]] ([[User talk:Skies|talk]]) 03:14, 1 January 2014 (CST) |
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| + | On this topic, according the synoptic gospel, weren't there someone named Simon of Cyrene who actually helped Jesus carried the cross to the calvary?--[[Special:Contributions/139.228.6.168|139.228.6.168]] 00:59, 10 February 2014 (CST) |
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| − | Anyway, the word church doesn't necessarily mean Christianity. It simply means a sanctuary. For example, the infamous cult church I used to live close by: The Church of Scientology. There are many other cults out there with churches but lack popularity. |
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| + | == Early Volumes Translation Fixing == |
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| − | Of course, how we use these words are up to the editors and translators. I really have no opinion on what we use, just trying to provide some insight as to how those words are technically acceptable. -[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 23:26, 18 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | As has already been said on my user page, I have begun making edits to Volume 1 as part of a greater project to fix the translations for the Season 1 and 2 light novels. The edits are being made with direct consultation with the series' translator js06. Volumes 1 and 2 will serve as the basis for all critique on my edits. Once everyone is satisifed with the way things look, I will proceed onwards from there. Any feedback regarding the edits should go on my talk page in the relevant section. I only ask editors to wait until I finish a whole volume (volume 1) before giving feedback.--[[User:OH&S|OH&S]] ([[User talk:OH&S|talk]]) 19:38, 6 January 2014 (CST) |
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| − | Because I was the first one to use the word 'cult' I had better clarify what I meant: I used the word 'cult' '''only''' in reference to the kanji combination 凄教. While all of the church/religion names end with kanji that can be pronounced as "seikyou", the actual kanji used are DIFFERENT between the different religions. Only the ''Amakusa seikyou'' has the kanji 凄教 for "seikyou." 凄 translates as 'uncanny, weird, threatening, horrible,' and 教 is the 'teaching, faith, doctrine' kanji we see at the end of all these word. 'Weird/horrible faith' is pretty close to 'cult.' |
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| + | <br>'''Volume 1 Edits are complete. Any feedback should go to my talk page.--[[User:OH&S|OH&S]] ([[User talk:OH&S|talk]]) 03:10, 8 January 2014 (CST) |
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| + | ''' |
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| + | == PDF files not updated == |
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| − | By this reasoning, '''only''' the Amakusa group would be called a 'cult.' As I wrote above, the others would be something like "Russian Institutional Church," "English Puritan Rite/Church" and "Roman Orthodox Church." --[[User:Senile seinen|Senile seinen]] 14:56, 19 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | I know there is a generate PDF function, but I don't like the layout it created so I prefer user made ones. But why hasn't anyone updated the files, particularly the old ones ? There are still mistakes from the previous version on Baka-tsuki that have been fixed in the HMTL files, but not in the PDF. [[Special:Contributions/42.112.3.98|42.112.3.98]] 10:09, 18 February 2014 (CST) |
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| − | 凄 also means ''wonderful, great, terrific, tremendous, real''. --[[User:El Phoenix|El Phoenix]] 12:15, 22 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | What mistakes are you talking about? The last modified date of the PDFs was about two and a half weeks ago. There are only nine or so edits that have happened since. -[[User:Ultranova17|Ultranova17]] ([[User talk:Ultranova17|talk]]) 11:43, 18 February 2014 (CST) |
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| − | Well, I'll make this clear. Here are the original chapter titles of volume 7: |
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| + | My bad. I forgot that the naming issues will be resolved only when OH&S starts his fixing, and when I saw the duplicate paragraph in the afterword of vol. 4, my mind just grouped them together. That duplicate is the only mistake I remember, and if you still keep updating the files, then there's no prob then. And also thank you for your work [[User:Ultranova17|Ultranova17]], I really appreciate it. [[Special:Contributions/42.112.3.98|42.112.3.98]] 05:45, 19 February 2014 (CST) |
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| − | * Prologue: 行動開始 The_Page_is_Opened. |
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| − | * Chapter 1: 学園都市 Science_Worship. |
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| − | * Chapter 2: ローマ正教 The_Roman_Catholic_Church. |
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| − | * Chapter 3: イギリス清教 Anglican_Church. |
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| − | * Chapter 4: 天草式十字凄教 AMAKUSA_Style_Remix_of_Church. |
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| − | * Epilogue: 行動終了 The_Page_is_Shut. --[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 13:15, 22 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | == '''Future of the Index Project''' == |
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| − | == Main Page Format == |
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| − | Okay, let's clear some things up. Do we want to keep the author's bizarre English, underscores and all? I think we should, since he uses symbols in the majority of the titles, and they were originally removed due to someone mistaking it for bad formatting. |
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| + | '''Yen Press have [http://www.yenpress.com/2014/04/sakura-con-2014-announcements-new-licenses/ acquired licenses] for the A Certain Magical Index light novels.''' The first novel is due for release under its Yen-On label sometime this Winter.<br>In normal situations, when a light novel series is licensed, Baka-Tsuki staff remove the text from their site and declare the project abandoned.<br>Due to Toaru Majutsu no Index being in a unique situation in regards to project size, structure and rate of new novels released, the deletion process will be different.<br>As mentioned in [[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]]'s [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=10359 '''announcement'''] in the BT forums, <big>'''the Side Stories, Parodies and New Testament Series will be kept on Baka-Tsuki'''</big>.<br><s>However, starting from September, one volume of Index will be deleted per month. After Volume 4 is deleted in December, the process will be reviewed by BT staff.</s><p>Due to this, some things will need to be modified: |
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| − | And how do we want to format the chapter titles? I was thinking keeping the two titles, separated by two spaces, the first title ending in a period and the second being italicized. I've made my own test version and have viewed it via Show Preview, but because *20 edits later by others*, I never really got the chance to apply it. I can still apply it and all we would have to do is undo the revision if anyone agrees with my thoughts. |
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| + | *<s>The links to the volume's chapters will become plain text upon deletion of the volume; however, I hope to keep the illustrations</s>. |
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| + | *Site will link to Yen-On's official A Certain Magical Index website when said site becomes available. |
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| + | *The Navbar Template will need to be modified to reflect the deletion of the translated text, <s>while keeping the Illustrations links and chapter names</s>. |
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| + | *<s>The Series Overview will now include the release dates for the English Novels, whenever that information is revealed.</s>DONE |
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| + | <br>Comments, remarks or suggestions regarding the future of the Index Project should be discussed here.<big>'''--[[User:OH&S|OH&S]] ([[User talk:OH&S|talk]]) 23:16, 21 April 2014 (CDT)'''</big> |
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| + | <br><br> |
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| − | So, ideas, opinions? —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]] |
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| + | Glad the translations for the new novels can go unimpeded for at least the next few years. Index is, after all, BT's flagship translation project. |
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| + | --[[User:Skies|Skies]] ([[User talk:Skies|talk]]) 13:55, 22 April 2014 (CDT) |
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| − | Before I like to start on this. I'll like to emphasize that I won't tolerate any format changes, none, unless we all agree to it. To both The Shadow , I understand what you're trying to do, but how would you like it if someone is to take help you do something, yet without your permission, and not the way you wanted it? It's the same thing. And to Suzuku, I have to be blunt here, that was really rude. You should have talked it out before taking action. I'll beseech to everyone, not just the two parties involved, that if you want to carry out any format changes like tenses and the like, please discuss it with us first before you do anything. |
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| + | <br><br> |
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| − | Now, onto the main point. I feel that either we leave if as it was, or we do the original titles that has the Japanese versions. The translations of the titles may not be universally accepted, unlike the original, so it would be difficult at times to reconcile with the translations, like here: |
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| + | i guess the best solution is for the whole bakatsuki to relocate to foreign web host, even though i dont exactly know how easy or feasible we have seen the fate of many project taken by many publisher other than yen press, like hidan no aria, kino no tabi that abandoned just after 1 or 2 volume after they think its "unprofitable" but they keep clinging to the corpse...maybe someone can enlighten about this matter... |
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| + | <br><br> |
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| − | * Novel Illustrations |
||
| + | So, guys. Whatever you're angry at, don't pull B-T into some mess. You're putting us between a hammer and hard place. I deleted some rather brazen comments and insinuations. If you want to propose something, go ahead. We'll explain what's feasible and what's not but stop horsing around. --[[User:Rock96|Rock96]] ([[User talk:Rock96|talk]]) 12:26, 23 April 2014 (CDT) |
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| − | * Prologue: Begin Action — The_Page_is_Opened. |
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| − | * Chapter 1: Academy City — Science_Worship. |
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| − | * Chapter 2: Roman Orthodox Church — The_Roman_Catholic_Church. |
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| − | * Chapter 3: British Puritan Church — Anglican_Church. |
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| − | * Chapter 4: Amakusa-style Church of Distinct Doctrines — AMAKUSA_Style_Remix_of_Church. |
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| − | * Epilogue: End Action — The_Page_is_Shut. |
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| − | * Afterword |
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| + | <br><br> |
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| − | I'm in favour of the status quo, or even better, if we can leave the original Japanese titles.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 03:22, 23 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | My previous comment was removed, rightfully perhaps, so here's a new one: guys, please consider a different legal jurisdiction. Paying heed to copyright laws is just pathetic. |
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| + | <br><br> |
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| − | I think you guys need to request someone with supervisor rights to become your supervisor and serve as an arbitrator? --[[User:Larethian|Larethian]] 03:52, 23 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | <big>'''<span style="color:red">NOTICE: Please refer to the updated [[Baka-Tsuki:Project Abandonment Policy|Abandonment Policy]] for [http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=5233202&postcount=4701 information] regarding the removal of volumes.</span>--[[User:OH&S|OH&S]] ([[User talk:OH&S|talk]]) 21:38, 30 August 2014 (CDT)'''</big> |
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Latest revision as of 16:11, 24 September 2014
How I enlist ?
I done reading to aru majutsu no index chapter 9. So i want to post it in here. Is it possible? How can I post it anyway? Japanese to Indonesia. japanese to englist. - (Kili)
Well, you could really just post it unless you want specific clearance from the moderators at the project forum. For the Indonesian one, you should make a topic with something along the lines of "To Aru Majutsu no Index - Indonesian" at the Alternative Language Forum for help with setting that up.
If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. -Repose
actuality I already completed translate english. Not so hard to make it to indonesia. but if I done where and how post it ? - (Kili)
The Indonesian version? For that you have to create the Alternate Language Project similar to other Alternate Language Projects with the complete translation of the Project Page (as a naming example: [[To Aru Majutsu no Index ~ Bahasa Indonesia]] (To Aru Majutsu no Index ~ Bahasa Indonesia)), Registration Page, a thread in the Alternate Language Subforum in the Baka-Tsuki Forum and at least one translated Chapter to get the approval to continue the project. --Darklor 23:19, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
it so hard for to made but I will keep trying. I need time to study about it.
am i wrong ?
I've just joined up, and have registered on the TAMNI register page, is that good enough? I can't seem to get into the forum link. --Flere821 09:44, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
Should be just fine, as I assume you'll be translating to English like the other things you've done. I suppose you don't need the forum unless you want to set up a project page up or want to discuss translation terms, but still, not sure why the links don't work for you. --EnigmaticRepose
I've noticed some irregular grammar and English usage on several chapters, do the translators/lead editors for this series mind if I take an axe to these chapters? My English is pretty good, it's just that I may be a bit liberal in changing adjectives or phrasing of words --Asteradragon 11:33, 6 April 2011 (EST)
What tense to use?
So, after reading some chapters of the seventh volume I would like to ask a question. What tense would you use in descriptions? Right now I’m doing some edits on the translated texts but there is always this one thing I’m tripping over. In this volume, and most likely also in the others, we have a third person narrator. In this case you would normally write the descriptions or narrations in the past tense, right? That’s what I would do at least and is commonly done in the most English novels. But as it is, there are some differences in the Asian and the English writing and that includes the used tenses. Because of these differences the translator decided to use the present tense in the above-named cases (most of the time at least). Of course, this isn’t a mistake, but I often feel like it would be one. Perhaps I’m just too used reading the past tense in descriptions but to me, with some exceptions, it often feels awkward when I read some of them in present tense. I would like to get some more opinions on this matter. Is it just me who has this problem or do you think the same as me? AJS90 21 March 2010
I've really just been using present tense for everything, which I based off of how the translators worded it. It's a bit weird for the narrator to do so, but eh, I'm used to it already. ...On a side note, it's nice not being the only editor anymore. ~EnigmaticRepose
Yeah, I've been using present tense for my edits, too- but only because there might be a convention in light novels regarding it that I'm unaware of. Better safe than sorry, you know? I MIGHT try a past-tense sweep edit for second opinions, but only after I'm done with my ongoing ones.--Tactician J 03:13, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
Regarding that a discussion was recently started in the forum too --Darklor 18:11, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for your work!!
Glad to see translated this novel series by Teh_Ping and Joay, thank you very much for working so hard and fast. At this point, I can say that the translators will surpass Index II(by JCStaff) in covering the novels :)
another fan of Teh_Ping and Joay, thank you very much for all of the great work ^^)/
Just wanted to tip my hat to Js06, in recognition of his speed (averages a volume in under 2 weeks) and his grasp of colloquial English. 75.92.217.27 14:34, 23 May 2013 (CDT)
THANK YOU FOR THE TRANSLATION Love you guys <3
Consensus: Past or Present?
Please Vote poll
With six active translators and three editors, this project needs to come to an agreement regarding tense usage. Do we stick to present tense, or do we shift to past tense?--Tactician J 10:21, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
For me, it's more of past for what just happened and present for what happens during the sequence. I also use a 'present future tense'. Next vote?--Teh Ping 11:21, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
I'm all for present as usual, but as I've said before, I can work with either. I get more attached to present tense stories, anyway. If we do end up agreeing on present tense, we might want to put it somewhere on the main page, and even in commentary tags by the editor list for extra insurance, as odds are potential editors/translators don't check the talk page until someone actually uses it. —EnigmaticRepose
I've only just realised/remembered there's a talk page here ^.^; I'm voting for past tense as that's what I'm used to, and that from what I can gather from the official Chinese translated Index Novels I have on hand right now they use past tense as well. It'll be easier for me to work in past tense. --Flere821 09:16, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
Regarding that a discussion was recently started in the forum too --Darklor 18:12, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
Is it possible for the translators to mark where the pages start and end? That would enable me to look up the original lines more easily, and I'd like to try making some nice-looking PDFs down the road... --Tactician J 14:28, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
I could go through eventually and help with that if I stop being lazy and when the tense issue is resolved. Anyway, I did a small preview of how it would look on parts 9–10 of volume 16's chapter 1. Basically, lines can be cut off randomly in the middle of the sentence (or words for that matter), so don't feel too reliant on the original formatting. Not to mention that every other page has the two titles for the chapter. And out of curiosity, how would you do the illustrations? Some colored ones have three-page-spreads and seeing an illustration after the part it happens in the text just isn't the same as seeing it as you turn the page, so would you use a two-page style, two-pages for just illustrations with the text page, or just one page at a time? —EnigmaticRepose 14:51, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
Text pages get single pages, but two-/three-page illustration spreads will be fused together, more or less. --Tactician J 15:03, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
Thought processes
Just wondering if I am the only one that's slightly uncomfortable with how thoughts are differentiated from the rest of the text in different ways. It seems that the most common methods of indicating thoughts are either in (parenthesis), italics, or (italics and parenthesis). Perhaps we can come to some kind of a standard for this... or is there a difference as to how certain thought processes are? (I don't have access to the Japanese text or cultural knowledge to know...) -Snorca 23:12, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
In the original texts, most thoughts are in parentheses but some also aren't, just like how most spoken dialogue is in quotes but some isn't. English novels also do it (the quoteless dialogues, though thoughts don't have to be emphasized with italics or parentheses), but I think it's more of a slight difference to not feel so abusive with them during dialogue/thought scenes. The italics is just something we started doing (I don't remember why?) and aren't in the original format. I don't think Japanese use italics at all, but they do have a way to emphasize certain parts of a line without just bolding it, though I forget what it's called. If you have any lines in mind that you'd like to me to look up and post as examples, go ahead, though it'll be in Japanese. —EnigmaticRepose
Occassionally some do use bold, but most of the time, most novels use 『』 or 【】 parentheses for emphasis. Italics look intuitive for monologue (and yes the Japanese don't use them). I've used it right from the start in LOLH, because I saw it in Toradora. Some CSR pages I saw use parentheses, but Italics just feel right to me. I've not read enough Index to know how the author presents thoughts. But based on your description, my guess is those in parentheses are First-Person monologue, while those that aren't are narrator-reported thoughts. --Larethian 04:11, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
Wow, never thought they might be monologues. I normally associate monologues with just quotation marks since they're said aloud. Now I'm even more confused as to what to do/how to read, haha. --Snorca 06:00, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
british vs american english
which english should we use: part of the project is in american english and part in british. It's not really that important to me which, but we should probably settle on one or the other. --Saganatsu 20:29, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
british will be better because they don`t use america--Cognitio
Do you mean to say that the story has English characters but no (few?) American characters? That makes some sense.--CarVac 22:16, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
American English. See the Format guideline. Vaelis 13:33, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
That standard was established before we had multiple projects, and was left in. given that it was written for when we only had one project, should it be up to each project to decide which version? the original line was this:
- Due to the nature of this website, and the nationality of the majority of Editors & Readers the standard spelling lexicon for this project will be based upon American English as defined by the Fourth Edition of the American Heritage Dictionary --13:18, 26 April 2006 by Onizuka-gto
the current version in place is
- Due to the nature of this website, and the nationality of the majority of Editors and Readers, the standard spelling lexicon for this Wiki will be based upon American English as defined by the Fourth Edition of the American Heritage Dictionary --5:37, 16 March 2007 by Smidge204
which was changed as part of the original update altering the format page from a Haruhi only version to a version for all projects.
also, Smidge204 stopped editing a year before this project was created: here vs here. and thus the format page, in it's current form, would not have considered a project that might have reason to use british english.
As the current text came about due to a change regarding the style of the formatting page, and not as an actual policy decision, and as the party who made the original style decision is no longer on the wiki to ask, I argue that the statement currently on the format page can be overridden by the people working on a particular project, especially if there is reason beyond personal preference, as has been argued above.
thus we come back to the question: which would the contributors prefer for this project? --Saganatsu 14:42, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
Ah stop arguing. As the one responsible for all of these, I'll take the charges (my job anyway, haven't updated the Supervisor tag)
I have already PMed Big Boss regarding this, so if he doesn't have any personal preference regarding this, I will make the decision.--Teh Ping 14:45, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
To quote the PM:
[quote="thelastguardian"]Well, if they are from England, of course they speak British English :p . Seems perfectly logical to me.[/quote]
There you have it. I'm going to introduce a new set of guidelines soon.
I'd let the England-based characters speak British English, but what about the narration? --Tactician J 15:03, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
Honestly, I don't like the idea of switching languages here and there so easily, feels weird to me because it's like the characters are in a different realm from the readers.--Teh Ping 15:57, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
Terminology
In Volume 14 Chapter 3 Part 4, Tatemiya Saiji is referred to as "Substitute Pope". He was previously referred to in Volumes 7 and 11 as "substitute Supreme Pontiff" (likewise, Kanzaki Kaori is referred to as "Supreme Pontiff"). If the Japanese writing for these terms is the same in each instance, then it would be best to pick a standard translation and use that.
--Stiyl 05:31, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
Edit: Also "Acqua of the Back" (Volume 14 Epilogue) versus "Acqua of the Rear".
--Stiyl 06:21, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
It's Supreme Pontiff and Acqua of the Back, according to the TamnI wiki. We follow their spellings and terminology, as far as I know. --Saganatsu 06:37, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
Ah, alright then. I've been avoiding looking at the wiki because every time I look at it, I accidentally read another spoiler.
--Stiyl 04:13, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Religion vs Denomination
I've seen it multiple times through the series, and the following stood out the most: "The three largest religions of Christianity have finally joined forces." Technically, the only Religion at play here is Christianity, The Anglican Church, The Roman Catholic Church and The Russian Orthodox Church are all denominations of Christianity, not religions of Christianity (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_denomination) --Draringi 15:47, 4 July 2011 (UCT)
"The three largest factions of Christianity have finally joined forces." Better? Kokonice 16:28, 4 July 2011 (UCT)
That is correct. For me, I put it as 'sect' to make it as unrealistic though.
My vicar's going to give me one long sermon if he finds out that the 'model student' is actually doing this series...--Teh Ping 16:41, 4 July 2011 (UCT)
@Kokonice: I was thinking "The three largest denominations of Christianity have finally joined forces.", but anything other than religion is an improvement --Draringi 01:23, 6 July 2011 (UCT)
Zero2001 was nice and fixed the mess I made into this great navbar:
Shall we use this? I can't see any downsides.--Saganatsu 07:31, 17 August 2011 (CDT)
Other than it looking like a wikipedia Navbar (with all the additional navs, I have no problems with it, go for it then.--Teh Ping 07:36, 17 August 2011 (CDT)
How should we add the official parody to the nav bar? in with side stories? under it's own section? a subsection of sidestories? just keep it left out? --Saganatsu (talk) 22:38, 26 February 2013 (CST)
The "by Kazuma Kamachi" added to series name broke the nav bar linking to the series section, so when click on the new testament title it won't scroll down to the correct section. --Shadowblade (talk) 09:29, 21 May 2014 (CDT)
Index Project Page Renovations
This is not really an update but more of a summary of the recent changes that have been made to the Index Main Page.
- Modified opening paragraph to better reflect the current standing of the series in regards to franchise material and recent awards. Extra information has been hidden in a collapsed-on-load table. (Page Space Saved)
- Greatly expanded Awards section with past and recent Kono LN ga Sugoi! Rankings
- Placed Awards for different years in collapsed-on-load tables with clickable custom toggles to open/close years. (Page Space Saved)
- Placed great portion of the list of updates into a collapsed-on-load table with clickable custom toggles titled 'Older Updates.'
Due to compatability isses with the Firefox Browser, the Updates Section Collapsing table itself shouldn't be placed in div tags.Update: Section is now placed in div tags after site was updated--OH&S (talk) 20:10, 14 January 2014 (CST) - Split the novel sections into different sub-sections with First Series headings suggested by Teh Ping. Each sub-section is a collapsible table with clickable custom toggles. (Page Space Saved when collapsed)
- Novel Sections collapsible tables are open-on-load due to some readers using the Table of Contents (ToC) to navigate. ToC links do not work unless collapsible table is open.
- ToC does NOT reflect the new subsections as a formatting issue leads to the BakaReader EX App not functioning properly for the Index novels. Problems that occurred when this was being tested should not be happening anymore.Small Update: BakaReader EX seems to have updated the App to handle the previous layout of the ToC. But I am fine with things as they are right now.--OH&S (talk) 19:28, 25 December 2013 (CST)
- Created and added a Master toggle that shows which sections are open/closed and allows for quick collapsing of the novel sections.
- Added light novel cover illustrations opposite novel content, similar to other Baka-Tsuki Pages.
- Added small 'Back to Contents' links throughout page for those that want them.
- Changed image next to New Testament intro description. (Page Space Saved)
- Place Inactive translators into collapsed-on-load table. (Page Space Saved)
- Place Editors in side by side wikitables (Page Space Saved)
- Placed Series Overview section in Collapsed-on-Load Tables with clickable custom toggles. Novels that have not been completely translated stay outside of the tables. (Page Space Saved)
A character's introduction section idea was thrown out there by me. However, considering the large amount of changes already made to the page in the last month, the idea was quickly withdrawn from this set of edits. The idea may be put out there again when a new anime for the Index franchise is announced; however there is currently no timeframe for this. For those still interested in what a theoretical character introduction section for Toaru Majutsu no Index would look like, head to my user page. It is currently still in beta stage. The above edits have been okayed by supervisor Teh Ping. As of now, the renovation period is over.
Toaru Kagaku no Accelerator begins in the next issue of Dengeki Daioh; NT Volume 9 is released on January 10; Funimation has announced Index II and Movie; the 10th Anniversary of the entire franchise will be on April 10th, 2014.
--OH&S (talk) 22:56, 18 December 2013 (CST)
Volume 11 Notes
Now, not to be rude to Teh_ping or anything since he did so much of the translation work on this series, but volume 11 has several notes on Christianity. I question why these are in the text. I mean at most I would expect them to be translator notes at the bottom, though I wonder if they even belong there as they're notes on well, the bible, rather than anything in the series.
(Teh_ping: For your information, he wasn’t. He was one of the Seventy, not Twelve)
(Teh_ping: for more information, read Genesis 18:16 to 19:29)
(Teh_ping: In Sodom)
(Teh_ping: She got turned into a pillar of salt)
(Teh_ping: Nope, Jesus here did carry the Cross up the hill himself.)
--Kaloo (talk) 20:23, 31 December 2013 (CST)
They should be translation notes at the bottom. If anything, editors just haven't gotten around to fixing this volume (in fact, many of the middle volumes haven't seen any real edits in quite a while). As for the fact they're notes on Christianity, it's best to include them. What may or may not be common knowledge doesn't necessarily hold true for people in other parts of the world. --Skies (talk) 03:14, 1 January 2014 (CST)
On this topic, according the synoptic gospel, weren't there someone named Simon of Cyrene who actually helped Jesus carried the cross to the calvary?--139.228.6.168 00:59, 10 February 2014 (CST)
Early Volumes Translation Fixing
As has already been said on my user page, I have begun making edits to Volume 1 as part of a greater project to fix the translations for the Season 1 and 2 light novels. The edits are being made with direct consultation with the series' translator js06. Volumes 1 and 2 will serve as the basis for all critique on my edits. Once everyone is satisifed with the way things look, I will proceed onwards from there. Any feedback regarding the edits should go on my talk page in the relevant section. I only ask editors to wait until I finish a whole volume (volume 1) before giving feedback.--OH&S (talk) 19:38, 6 January 2014 (CST)
Volume 1 Edits are complete. Any feedback should go to my talk page.--OH&S (talk) 03:10, 8 January 2014 (CST)
PDF files not updated
I know there is a generate PDF function, but I don't like the layout it created so I prefer user made ones. But why hasn't anyone updated the files, particularly the old ones ? There are still mistakes from the previous version on Baka-tsuki that have been fixed in the HMTL files, but not in the PDF. 42.112.3.98 10:09, 18 February 2014 (CST)
What mistakes are you talking about? The last modified date of the PDFs was about two and a half weeks ago. There are only nine or so edits that have happened since. -Ultranova17 (talk) 11:43, 18 February 2014 (CST)
My bad. I forgot that the naming issues will be resolved only when OH&S starts his fixing, and when I saw the duplicate paragraph in the afterword of vol. 4, my mind just grouped them together. That duplicate is the only mistake I remember, and if you still keep updating the files, then there's no prob then. And also thank you for your work Ultranova17, I really appreciate it. 42.112.3.98 05:45, 19 February 2014 (CST)
Future of the Index Project
Yen Press have acquired licenses for the A Certain Magical Index light novels. The first novel is due for release under its Yen-On label sometime this Winter.
In normal situations, when a light novel series is licensed, Baka-Tsuki staff remove the text from their site and declare the project abandoned.
Due to Toaru Majutsu no Index being in a unique situation in regards to project size, structure and rate of new novels released, the deletion process will be different.
As mentioned in Teh Ping's announcement in the BT forums, the Side Stories, Parodies and New Testament Series will be kept on Baka-Tsuki.However, starting from September, one volume of Index will be deleted per month. After Volume 4 is deleted in December, the process will be reviewed by BT staff.
Due to this, some things will need to be modified:
The links to the volume's chapters will become plain text upon deletion of the volume; however, I hope to keep the illustrations.- Site will link to Yen-On's official A Certain Magical Index website when said site becomes available.
- The Navbar Template will need to be modified to reflect the deletion of the translated text,
while keeping the Illustrations links and chapter names. The Series Overview will now include the release dates for the English Novels, whenever that information is revealed.DONE
Comments, remarks or suggestions regarding the future of the Index Project should be discussed here.--OH&S (talk) 23:16, 21 April 2014 (CDT)
Glad the translations for the new novels can go unimpeded for at least the next few years. Index is, after all, BT's flagship translation project.
--Skies (talk) 13:55, 22 April 2014 (CDT)
i guess the best solution is for the whole bakatsuki to relocate to foreign web host, even though i dont exactly know how easy or feasible we have seen the fate of many project taken by many publisher other than yen press, like hidan no aria, kino no tabi that abandoned just after 1 or 2 volume after they think its "unprofitable" but they keep clinging to the corpse...maybe someone can enlighten about this matter...
So, guys. Whatever you're angry at, don't pull B-T into some mess. You're putting us between a hammer and hard place. I deleted some rather brazen comments and insinuations. If you want to propose something, go ahead. We'll explain what's feasible and what's not but stop horsing around. --Rock96 (talk) 12:26, 23 April 2014 (CDT)
My previous comment was removed, rightfully perhaps, so here's a new one: guys, please consider a different legal jurisdiction. Paying heed to copyright laws is just pathetic.
NOTICE: Please refer to the updated Abandonment Policy for information regarding the removal of volumes.--OH&S (talk) 21:38, 30 August 2014 (CDT)
