Talk:Toaru Majutsu no Index
Illustration overview reminder found in the project forum...
- 1 How I enlist ?
- 2 Chapter 2: Doubt_Lovers.
- 3 What the shit.
- 4 What tense to use?
- 5 I need illustrations for Volume 10
- 6 Pic translation
- 7 Just a slight concern.
- 8 Spanish section request
- 9 I'll try to translate a bit
- 10 Thanks for your work!!
- 11 Translations?
- 12 Some Question
- 13 VOLUME 11
- 14 To Aru Majutsu No Index Volume 3
- 15 Consensus: Past or Present?
- 16 Volume 14
- 17 Churches
- 18 Main Page Format
- 19 Awards
- 20 Short Synopsis
- 21 Header
- 22 chapter title Vol2 Ch3
- 23 "To Aru" Majutsu no Index
- 24 Underscores
- 25 Inserting hidden page numbers into the text?
- 26 Thought processes
- 27 british vs american english
- 28 Dragon
- 29 who's gonna translte volume 15 and 19?
- 30 volume 23 and 24
- 31 And Misaka Mikoto?
- 32 SS Volume 2?
- 33 alternative language?
- 34 Terminology
- 35 New Testament: Toaru Majutsu no Index or Toaru Majutsu no Index: New Testament?
- 36 Volume 22 - continuation?
- 37 The Spin-Offs
- 38 Volume SS1 - Afterword?
- 39 Are there any translations regarding Bardway?
- 40 Kreuzhev or Croitsev ?
- 41 THANK YOU!
- 42 Religion vs Denomination
- 43 Something that may need to change
- 44 nicer navbar
- 45 Volume 19
- 46 Unreadable emails in SS1 / vol14
- 47 NT3 Chapter Names
- 48 Was this ever translated?
- 49 NT Volume 4
- 50 Haimura's website
- 51 The extent of Touma's ability's nullifying...
- 52 What happened . .
- 53 Volume 21
- 54 Seivelun sisters' paired language quirks:
- 55 Regarding the Creation of a Calendar/Timeline Section for the Index Project Page
- 56 Name of Gremlin magicians (and related)
- 57 Index project page renovations feedback
- 58 Volume 11 Notes
- 59 Early Volumes Translation Fixing
- 60 PDF files not updated
How I enlist ?
I done reading to aru majutsu no index chapter 9. So i want to post it in here. Is it possible? How can I post it anyway? Japanese to Indonesia. japanese to englist. - (Kili)
Well, you could really just post it unless you want specific clearance from the moderators at the project forum. For the Indonesian one, you should make a topic with something along the lines of "To Aru Majutsu no Index - Indonesian" at the Alternative Language Forum for help with setting that up.
If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. -Repose
actuality I already completed translate english. Not so hard to make it to indonesia. but if I done where and how post it ? - (Kili)
The Indonesian version? For that you have to create the Alternate Language Project similar to other Alternate Language Projects with the complete translation of the Project Page (as a naming example: [[To Aru Majutsu no Index ~ Bahasa Indonesia]] (To Aru Majutsu no Index ~ Bahasa Indonesia)), Registration Page, a thread in the Alternate Language Subforum in the Baka-Tsuki Forum and at least one translated Chapter to get the approval to continue the project. --Darklor 23:19, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
it so hard for to made but I will keep trying. I need time to study about it.
am i wrong ?
I've just joined up, and have registered on the TAMNI register page, is that good enough? I can't seem to get into the forum link. --Flere821 09:44, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
Should be just fine, as I assume you'll be translating to English like the other things you've done. I suppose you don't need the forum unless you want to set up a project page up or want to discuss translation terms, but still, not sure why the links don't work for you. --EnigmaticRepose
I've noticed some irregular grammar and English usage on several chapters, do the translators/lead editors for this series mind if I take an axe to these chapters? My English is pretty good, it's just that I may be a bit liberal in changing adjectives or phrasing of words --Asteradragon 11:33, 6 April 2011 (EST)
Chapter 2: Doubt_Lovers.
The link refer to "http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=To_Aru_Majutsu_no_Index:Volume5_Chapter1" So I think of them is wrong? --Hypernova 12:16, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
Thanks EnigmaticRepose for fixing it!--Hypernova 00:32, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
What the shit.
Why would a translation project start at volume 12 instead of volume 1? Imagine watching the Lord of the Rings movie series for the first time in your life...except instead of watching it starting from the first movie, you skip to the middle of the 3rd movie during the seige of Gondor. And as you sit through the movie you keep going "Oh this sword guy is kinda cool whats his name? And who is this Sauron guy?".
you, whoever you are, are being horrendously rude and ungrateful for the fact that the translators (you seem pointed at Joay in particular) not only translate these novels, they do it for free. Besides that, volumes 1 through 6 are covered by the anime, and  has synopses of all the novels. --Saganatsu 04:15, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
Also since the translators have the power, they can decide what they like to translate, so if you could translate as well you could start with volume 1 if you like it... or with chapter x in volume y ;) So if you dont cant and dont like it you dont have to read it. I am gratful for that what we have, so should you too if you like to read more of those otherwise unobtainable unreadable volumes. --Darklor 08:34, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
hmm, now that volume 7 and 9 are translated and volume 10 is being translated, i'd like to ask if there is a specific reason that volume 8 was skipped.? It doesn't really matter though, since i was just wondering if maybe the story in 8 takes place in a different time than 7->9. other than that, i'm fine with waiting, since you're all (yeah, you translators ^_^ ) doing a fantastic job at translating this so far. keep up the good work. oh yeah, and... Ganbare!---AzraRillian - Transcend The Sin - "You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body." C.S. Lewis 03:18, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
Took me five months to even notice this, sorry...
The reason why I did Volumes 9 and 10 before volume 8 was basically because of a request (the first guy who PMed me when I worked on this project asked me whether I can do Volume 9 first. So, sorry...?
And to the guy who has been complaining about Volume 1 not being translated first, well, no point talking about it now when out of a sudden, there are three guys working on volume 1 now (I'm really, really glad to have other people share the workload). Like what Saganatsu said, the anime has pretty much covered most of the important aspects, and since there's a sizeable fandom of it that can provide all sorts of information, you're not really in the dark regarding what has happened. The 'Lord of the Rings' idea doesn't really work since you would have most likely gone about trying to find out what's going on in order to answer the question of 'what's going on?' Or did you not even bother looking for it?
Well, instead of complaining, you might as well do something about it if you can. Orders are nothing if the actions are not done, you know. We're not entitled to do this for you, we're not even paid to do this. We're doing this only because we want to. We translators here are like Kamijo Touma, we don't have a reason to do things, we just do it.
--Teh Ping 17:30, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
What tense to use?
So, after reading some chapters of the seventh volume I would like to ask a question. What tense would you use in descriptions? Right now I’m doing some edits on the translated texts but there is always this one thing I’m tripping over. In this volume, and most likely also in the others, we have a third person narrator. In this case you would normally write the descriptions or narrations in the past tense, right? That’s what I would do at least and is commonly done in the most English novels. But as it is, there are some differences in the Asian and the English writing and that includes the used tenses. Because of these differences the translator decided to use the present tense in the above-named cases (most of the time at least). Of course, this isn’t a mistake, but I often feel like it would be one. Perhaps I’m just too used reading the past tense in descriptions but to me, with some exceptions, it often feels awkward when I read some of them in present tense. I would like to get some more opinions on this matter. Is it just me who has this problem or do you think the same as me? AJS90 21 March 2010
I've really just been using present tense for everything, which I based off of how the translators worded it. It's a bit weird for the narrator to do so, but eh, I'm used to it already. ...On a side note, it's nice not being the only editor anymore. ~EnigmaticRepose
Yeah, I've been using present tense for my edits, too- but only because there might be a convention in light novels regarding it that I'm unaware of. Better safe than sorry, you know? I MIGHT try a past-tense sweep edit for second opinions, but only after I'm done with my ongoing ones.--Tactician J 03:13, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
I need illustrations for Volume 10
Exactly what's written on it. Would the uploader kindly upload the illustrations of the other volumes? Many thanks in advance.~Teh Ping
would it be enough a link of megaupload volumes 1-16 and with the illustration? anyway heres the link: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2AS0PZD7 -ark
Ah, could someone translate the pics too, if there is on them something to translate, please? --Darklor 05:54, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
Most the pictures just have quotes from the novel, with additional tiny descriptions, like 'Academy City Tokiwadai Student' or 'English Purist "Church of Necessary Evil (Necessarius)' and the like, so you aren't missing much. It's really just a fit it in the context after you read it, as they're supposed to be teasers for the story anyway (which is why they're placed in the beginning).
Hm, I thought it would be nice - like we have it for Sword Art Online especially since we dont have translations for all volumes, so some teasers would be nice ;). Have meant only pics like those: Image 1; Image 2; Image 3 --Darklor 10:33, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
Just a slight concern.
As Joay and I are busy with our own stuff, I suppose that there should be some sort of a Project Supervisor around to keep check of certain stuff. There will be updates in the future, as Twi will continue to translate this series (hopefully), but I hope that there's someone to keep this series in check, since it's no longer a 'small' project anymore (I guess, since YMMV). ~Teh Ping
Spanish section request
I would like to start a spanish section for the novels.--18.104.22.168 22:51, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
You should make a topic with something along the lines of "To Aru Majutsu no Index - Spanish" at the Alternative Language Forum for help with setting that up. Registering may also be a good idea. An Indonesian one was also set up, so you could use that as a reference. --EnigmaticRepose
I'll try to translate a bit
Currently my japanese is iffy at best, but as i'm studying it might as well give it a shot.I'll try to pick up the 1st chapter of volume one (no one's doing it right?). I'm asking here first as well, i don't know if i can manage it yet. If i manage to somehow not embarrass myself too much doing that i'll register, and work on the rest of the volume. Again, i can't be sure i'll manage it so... best try it out first then see.--AADragon 16:35, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
No one would say something against it, just feel free to ge ahead, but best would be to register the chapter before, even if it is not very probable that some other translator would translate it anytime soon, but wonder happens sometime, so just to be safe ;) --Darklor 20:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for your work!!
Glad to see translated this novel series by Teh_Ping and Joay, thank you very much for working so hard and fast. At this point, I can say that the translators will surpass Index II(by JCStaff) in covering the novels :)
another fan of Teh_Ping and Joay, thank you very much for all of the great work ^^)/
Just wanted to tip my hat to Js06, in recognition of his speed (averages a volume in under 2 weeks) and his grasp of colloquial English. 22.214.171.124 14:34, 23 May 2013 (CDT)
I'm new here, and I want to translate some stuff. I was reading the chinese version and randomly decided to translate V1C4 from Chinese to English.
Do I need some sort of clearance? Or can I just go ahead and upload my stuff (especially since my translation quality is most definitely sub-par)?
Go ahead and just upload it
The editors will be helping out with the language. I'll also help you proofread it if you want.
Over here, there's no need for any bureaucratic red tape. Any translator can just upload their stuff here, so you can just upload it.
EDIT: Still having a bit of trouble with the formatting, garr...
--Teh Ping 03:51, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
Er.... So, I already translated about three chapter and half from the 2nd Volume... and the question is... How do I upload it? Any clues?
Here's what you need
1. First, go to the volume that you want to upload.
2. Do you see the edit button on the top right hand corner? Click it.
3. Look at the 'Internal link' section, that is how you're going to add hyperlinks. (You can look at the other volumes for reference)
4. If you did it right, the words should be in red, click on it.
5. Now, you should be in a new page. Click on the 'create' button at the top.
6. Upload the text that you have already translated. (Make sure to press 'enter' once after every paragraph so that it's easier to read.)
7. Next, the headings. At the wiki editing tips page, look at the 'headings' section (well, duh).
8. If you see the format used on all B-T texts, you'll probably get an idea of how to do it. (Just copy what they do.)
9. For pictures, it's under 'thumbnail image', the 'picture' would be from the illustrations of the volume that's available here. If I want a picture from say 'Volume 1 page 031', the format would be [[Image:Index_v01_031.jpg|thumb]]
10. For a footer, just go to any completed chapter here, copy the scripts for the footer, and make the necessary edits.
If you need any more help, you can pm me.
--Teh Ping 15:31, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
I wonder what happened with this translator and translation... --Darklor 09:30, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
english Volume 11 has been sabed over by the spanish version. Any chance of recovery?
Erm, excuse me, but you lost me there
Is there anything wrong? Since when do we have a Spanish section?
--Teh Ping 17:41, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Not sure, but I think they're talking about all the chapter titles being in gratuitous Italian.
Oh that, that's what you guys meant. Yes, it's supposed to be in gratuitous Italian, since the plot setting is in Italy (Before you guys start blaming me for spoiling it, the prologue of Volume 11 will be uploaded in 4 hours.)--Teh Ping 09:21, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
To Aru Majutsu No Index Volume 3
Can You work on volume 3. Sorry for asking, because I love this arc. --anonymous
the sisters arc is great, but, we have it already in two separate manga and the anime. new content would be my preference. --Saganatsu 15:00, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
Ah, we'll see how it goes. Most likely, I'll leave it as training for some new translator. I'm planning to be more of a drill sergeant for these new translators, so, get ready.--Teh Ping 15:54, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
Ah, I know about the anime and manga but I love to read more. But anyway Thank^^. I will wait for anyone to translate it.
Consensus: Past or Present?
Please Vote poll
With six active translators and three editors, this project needs to come to an agreement regarding tense usage. Do we stick to present tense, or do we shift to past tense?--Tactician J 10:21, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
For me, it's more of past for what just happened and present for what happens during the sequence. I also use a 'present future tense'. Next vote?--Teh Ping 11:21, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
I'm all for present as usual, but as I've said before, I can work with either. I get more attached to present tense stories, anyway. If we do end up agreeing on present tense, we might want to put it somewhere on the main page, and even in commentary tags by the editor list for extra insurance, as odds are potential editors/translators don't check the talk page until someone actually uses it. —EnigmaticRepose
I've only just realised/remembered there's a talk page here ^.^; I'm voting for past tense as that's what I'm used to, and that from what I can gather from the official Chinese translated Index Novels I have on hand right now they use past tense as well. It'll be easier for me to work in past tense. --Flere821 09:16, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
I know this must be annoying being asked this but could someone work on doing Volume 14?
I don't think anyone is doing this at the moment, volumes 1,SS1,15, & 22 seem to be under active or semi-active translation, but volume 14 is probably coming soon. admitedly, it's just a guess, but as it will be the first volume not in the first season untranslated after SS1 is done, it will probably get done soon. If you can translate, however, feel free to start, no one has registered for it. --Saganatsu 06:38, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
To the translators and editors: both the anglican church and russian orthodox church exists :, exist. they are not made up by the author. (technically the anglican church's proper name is the 'Church of England', and is the leader of the 'Anglican Communion'). I'm quite certain also that the Roman Catholic Church exists also, being a lapsed member. The Amakusa Church is made up though: it was named after an island of japan where the heads of executed christians were buried in 1637 . --Saganatsu 14:19, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
Well, I don't really know how to explain this, but here's a post by an AS user called Thirdlc, which I find to be very good in explaining it.
"The author uses coined words like 十字教, イギリス清教, ローマ正教 and ロシア成教, instead of actual words like キリスト教 (Christianity), 英国国教会 (Church of England), ローマ・カトリック (Roman Catholic Church), ロシア正教 (Russian Orthodox Church).
I don't like it that those are directly referred, ignoring the author's intention.
Looking at these names, it's possible that the author just wants to make them end with "seikyou" and there is not much meaning in 清.
イギリス清教 (Igirisu [B]seikyou[/B]), ローマ正教 (Roma [B]seikyou[/B]), ロシア成教 (Roshia [B]seikyou[/B]), 天草式十字凄教 (Amakusa-shiki juuji [B]seikyou[/B]) "
--Teh Ping 11:26, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
- No hand facepalm...*
Well, to any editor, I'm going to need your help here.
For all the 'Amakusa Catholics' change them into the 'Amakusa-style Church'.
Anyone got any other way to translate the rest, or should we stick to the terms given in volume 7?--Teh Ping 14:30, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
Ah--Saganatsu 14:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
I think this needs to be translated consistently between the volumes. A guideline discussion seems necessary. Just because Vol. 7 was translated first doesn't mean that it's done appropriately (I haven't even looked, so couldn't venture an opinion). Likewise, I would hesitate to buy into a 'canon' translation by a Japanese author - church names tend to be archaic English, for one thing, which is not well covered by Japanese style English education.
My take, now that I see some of the source: 教 seems to be used in the way that we use teaching, rite,(compare 'rites' of Freemasonry) or even (religious) tradition in English. So maybe translate イギリス清教 as 'English Puritan rite,' 'English Puritan church,' or 'English Puritan teaching.' By extension, that would lead to 'Roman Orthodox rite'/'Roman Orthodox church' and 'Russian Institutional rite/church' (I'm having a tough time translating the on reading of 成 into something that isn't 'orthodox' in this context.) Likewise, 凄教 translates pretty well as 'cult' for me. Did a little googling and found this page  which seems to agree with my 'cult' definition. So the 'Amakusa cult.'
By analogy, It seems obvious that the author is suggesting real churches, but is very careful not to use their common names in Japanese, I would guess both to avoid angry adherents of the real churches and to help with the alternate universe separation of realities. For example, ロシア成教 is practically synonymous with the meaning of 'Russian Orthodox Church' but just happens to not be the way it is written in Japanese. It seems that we would want a similar obfuscation in the translation for the same reasons. -Senile seinen 16:58, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
I just want to give my two cents to agree with the character 教 itself translating to cult. It's used quite commonly in Chinese text to such effect. However, I believe the only problem in doing so would be that cults in the English language are usually seen as heretical and some organizations might not fit that light. -Snorca 17:30, 17 November 2010
Well, I should be resting, but since this is important, I'll give an answer.
The so-called canon translations aren't invented by me or Joay or any other translator. When I said Volume 7, I meant the chapter titles of volume 7. The names on the main page, they're canon, we didn't do anything except removing the japanese text. Of course, if we're to go by our own common knowledge, cult would be the better term, but it'll feel a lot less familiar.
Why are these religions named as 'cults'? As someone who has Chinese as my first language, I haven't came across something like the character '教' being equivalent to that... (Or I just can't remember it - can anyone give some examples?) But yeah, in canon these Churches are for all intents and purposes 'religions' and not 'cults' as the English speakers understand it. Maybe we can make some sort of 'need-to-know' translation notes for readers on the Index Novels' main page if this issue becomes a serious one? Just putting it out there the Churches in this universe is not the ones equivalent to Real-Life's ones. In the Official Chinese Translated Volume 1 of TAMNI (pg30, next to a illustration page of Index) I have on hand there's a Note saying all churches mentioned in this series are made-up ones by the author. Also, I can vouch for the English spellings being correct (I have a hard copy of the Official Chinese translated Index Novel Vol7) given in Vol7 of the Churches are as the person above me has said - so I think what we have right now should stay. --Flere821 05:27, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
Have you read the Jing Yong novels? Condor heroes etc? The Ming Cult gets referenced quite often -Snorca 07:13, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
Its Japanese then maybe the meaning of '教' is different between Japanese and Chinese? (Rikaichan says for that "teach", "faith", "doctrine") And if the Churches are realy made up by the author shouldnt then イギリス清教, ローマ正教, ロシア成教 and 天草式十字凄教 be British Puritan, Roman Orthodox, Russian 成(?) and Amakusa(n) 凄 (? unorthodox) faith or doctrine instead of Roman Catholic and Russian Orthodox Church? --Darklor 09:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
No no, Kanji used by Japanese have basically the same meaning in Chinese. In Chinese, that character does indeed mean teach, doctrine, etc. It depends on how it is used. It is really difficult to draw meaning from one character, it depends on how it is used along with other characters before one can drawn meaning from it. -Snorca 17:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
I haven't came across those examples you (Snorca) mentioned, but from what I looked up in a Chinese -> English dictionary (Granted, this particular reference book is from 1994 so it's more than a decade old...) the character '教' doesn't have the meaning of cult... and as far as I know from other sources the Chinese term for 'cult' is '邪教', the characters can literally be translated into 'evil religion'. The character '教' alone doesn't mean 'cult' but just 'religion' I think.
But precise meaning/s of the words aside, IMO for all intents and purposes these 'religious organisations', for a lack of better term right now, are similar in structure to real-life churches, even if they're not named the same. These organisations are churches in canon (in terms of influence, history and other such aspects), not cults, and should probably be called as 'churches'. And to prevent mixing up with Real-Life versions maybe some other name can be introduced, but with the word 'church' included? Or like I suggested earlier we can just note the differences between the ToaruVerse Churches and the Real-Life Churches on the TAMNI main page?
That reminds me, the novels calls 'Christianity' (for a lack of better term to describe the religion that is born from the death of the Son of God is called , the name 'Jesus' is never mentioned in the novels and is always refered to as the 'Son of God') the 'Religion of the Cross', ie '十字教', instead of the usual Chinese version '基督教'. Maybe we should change that in our translations as well somehow? --Flere821 21:57, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, as I've said, the word cult will have problems because it has a negative connotation in it based on how the mass media portrays it. Not all cults are evil though, religions would refuse to be classified as a cult, but in essence of the word, they technically are cults. Cults are basically a group with religious beliefs, but are somewhat considered strange. It had been given a negative image due to how most religions (not gonna name the most obvious one) really, really hate how people stray from their practices.
Anyway, the word church doesn't necessarily mean Christianity. It simply means a sanctuary. For example, the infamous cult church I used to live close by: The Church of Scientology. There are many other cults out there with churches but lack popularity.
Of course, how we use these words are up to the editors and translators. I really have no opinion on what we use, just trying to provide some insight as to how those words are technically acceptable. -Snorca 23:26, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
Because I was the first one to use the word 'cult' I had better clarify what I meant: I used the word 'cult' only in reference to the kanji combination 凄教. While all of the church/religion names end with kanji that can be pronounced as "seikyou", the actual kanji used are DIFFERENT between the different religions. Only the Amakusa seikyou has the kanji 凄教 for "seikyou." 凄 translates as 'uncanny, weird, threatening, horrible,' and 教 is the 'teaching, faith, doctrine' kanji we see at the end of all these word. 'Weird/horrible faith' is pretty close to 'cult.'
By this reasoning, only the Amakusa group would be called a 'cult.' As I wrote above, the others would be something like "Russian Institutional Church," "English Puritan Rite/Church" and "Roman Orthodox Church." --Senile seinen 14:56, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
凄 also means wonderful, great, terrific, tremendous, real. --El Phoenix 12:15, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
Well, I'll make this clear. Here are the original chapter titles of volume 7:
- Prologue: 行動開始 The_Page_is_Opened.
- Chapter 1: 学園都市 Science_Worship.
- Chapter 2: ローマ正教 The_Roman_Catholic_Church.
- Chapter 3: イギリス清教 Anglican_Church.
- Chapter 4: 天草式十字凄教 AMAKUSA_Style_Remix_of_Church.
- Epilogue: 行動終了 The_Page_is_Shut. --Teh Ping 13:15, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
Main Page Format
Please Vote poll
Okay, let's clear some things up. Do we want to keep the author's bizarre English, underscores and all? I think we should, since he uses symbols in the majority of the titles, and they were originally removed due to someone mistaking it for bad formatting.
And how do we want to format the chapter titles? I was thinking keeping the two titles, separated by two spaces, the first title ending in a period and the second being italicized. I've made my own test version and have viewed it via Show Preview, but because *20 edits later by others*, I never really got the chance to apply it. I can still apply it and all we would have to do is undo the revision if anyone agrees with my thoughts.
So, ideas, opinions? —EnigmaticRepose
Before I like to start on this. I'll like to emphasize that I won't tolerate any format changes, none, unless we all agree to it. To both The Shadow , I understand what you're trying to do, but how would you like it if someone is to take help you do something, yet without your permission, and not the way you wanted it? It's the same thing. And to Suzuku, I have to be blunt here, that was really rude. You should have talked it out before taking action. I'll beseech to everyone, not just the two parties involved, that if you want to carry out any format changes like tenses and the like, please discuss it with us first before you do anything.
Now, onto the main point. I feel that either we leave if as it was, or we do the original titles that has the Japanese versions. The translations of the titles may not be universally accepted, unlike the original, so it would be difficult at times to reconcile with the translations, like here:
* Novel Illustrations * Prologue: Begin Action — The_Page_is_Opened. * Chapter 1: Academy City — Science_Worship. * Chapter 2: Roman Orthodox Church — The_Roman_Catholic_Church. * Chapter 3: British Puritan Church — Anglican_Church. * Chapter 4: Amakusa-style Church of Distinct Doctrines — AMAKUSA_Style_Remix_of_Church. * Epilogue: End Action — The_Page_is_Shut. * Afterword
I'm in favour of the status quo, or even better, if we can leave the original Japanese titles.--Teh Ping 03:22, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
I think you guys need to request someone with supervisor rights to become your supervisor and serve as an arbitrator? --Larethian 03:52, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
From my understanding the original novels, for each chapter, have a japanese title and a english title (the one with the underscores). If this is the case, my preference would be for both to be present, as above. Admittedly, it looks pretty odd for volume 7, but it looks like there the difficulty would be differentiating between religion as organization vs. religion as belief system. Also, sorry for contributing to edit war. --Saganatsu 04:14, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
While I'm fine with the either of the older formats (just "Science_Worship./Science Worship.", no translated titles), will the Japanese titles work out since this a translation project? Yeah, 5–10 passersby will understand them, but the majority won't. And the titles look nice on the contents pages because they're neatly separated into columns, whereas since the title translations can get fairly long-winded, it makes it somewhat difficult to make it look consistent and not have a huge amount of unnecessary space between a title. Though we could also romanize them instead, like:
*Prologue: Kōdō Kaishi. The_Page_is_Opened.
That would make some romanization difficult, though (especially if your knowledge of the language is half-assed like mine), and would slightly be better than just right-out Japanese characters. And Teh Ping, were you in favor for the original English lines with the underscores or the spaces?
And just for a side-note, the Russian project of Index has both titles, though the translator keeps the English titles as-is, most likely because he's a Japanese to Russian translator (must make Kamachi's heavy use of English-oriented furigana a pain).
Also, Larethian, we've gotten quite far without the supposedly necessary supervisor or admin, so why start now? It's actually sort of surprising that Index hasn't had one volunteer yet. —EnigmaticRepose
Well, it's good that you guys can arbitrate among yourself. On closer look now, I see that the edit war is caused by casual editors rather than editors of the project. Speaking of the supervisors, I don't even see them around much? I know Vaelis, who has admin rights, is actively lurking.:) --Larethian 06:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
I also think that you should keep the two titles: the first title translated into English and the weird English title of the Author. The current version looks ok but you could italicize the second title. — Vaelis 08:41, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
Well, there's too few translators for us to sort ourselves out -_-, so we didn't need a supervisor up till now. However, if there's a need to have one, seeing how it goes now with all the debates here, I'll volunteer for it.
As for the author's English, I say we keep the underscores. Honestly, I prefer the Japanese titles for the first title instead of the translated ones. Maybe we should get Tact to chip in his thoughts on this, since he's the proofreader here. Will do a poll when I get home, or if we really can't decide, I'll get Herald of Meridian to post a poll on the wikia.--Teh Ping 09:53, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
When I said Japanese, I meant the original hiragana, katakana, kanji and the likes, not romaji.--Teh Ping 10:38, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
I think Teh Ping's suggestion of retaining the original script for the chapter 7 titles makes the most sense-it's exactly what we have chosen to do in translating the chapter titles of the manga (Hoshi no Furu Machi) I'm editing. Yes, keep the underscores and all. I don't really see a problem with using JIS romaji in place of the katakana/hiragana/kanji, but I don't see an advantage to it either.
My concern is the translation of these terms in the body text - it needs to be consistent within and between volumes, and I believe it should closely mirror the meaning of the hiragana/katakana/kanji in the body text, rather than the author's somewhat engrishy attempt at translation himself in the chapter titles. This is with the goal of emulating the Japanese reader's experience as closely as possible. -- Senile seinen 15:07, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
We have created a poll regarding that in the wiki!
@Teh_Ping I dont think you should translate 教 as church if also 会 (as 教会) would be needed to become the word for church...
Also I would prefer an English translation (since I cant read Kanji (only with Rikachan) nor understand the Romaji transcription, but would also like to know the name of the title) with the original hidden in <!-- --> and with the "subtitle" in italic separated with a normal dash (-) and not a "& mdash ;"(—), but without the underlines but rather with spaces (but that is only because I think it looks strange with those underlines). --Darklor 17:56, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
My view is that keep the Japanese version of the chapter titles and give the English translation of that on the chapter page itself, even if only for the reason it looks better on the contents page that way (among others). As for the underscores and other things in the author's English, I suggest we keep it the same as how it is shown - if necessary change it on the chapter page, but leave it as it is on the main page. --Flere821 21:36, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
What would you think if it was formated like that:
- Novel Illustrations
- Prologue: Radio Noise
- Chapter 1: Imagine Breaker
- Radio Noise
(Prologue example 1; Chap 1 example 2; Chap 2 example 3 - but I think "chapter" should be kept) --Darklor 18:54, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
Beyond the inconsistent link locations, I'm not in favor of having each chapter split up over two lines, it seems that it could be confusing, especially to people new to the site, and it doesn't look as nice to me. --Saganatsu 04:42, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
As said that are three different examples. The Prologue is example 1, chapter 1 is example 2 and chapter 2 is example 3 - its just another suggestion instead of the long chapter titles in one line... Of those examples I would prefer example 2, which would mostly be like its done with some MariMite chapters. --Darklor 06:55, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
Well, building off of Darklor's example, here's what the idea I suggested in the forums would look like:
- Novel Illustrations
- Prologue: The Tale of the Illusion Killer Boy/幻想殺しの少年のお話
- Chapter 1: The Magician Lands in the Town/魔術師は塔に降り立つ
- Chapter 2: The Conjurer Bestows Demise/奇術師は終焉を与える
- Chapter 3: The Grimoire Peacefully Smiles/魔道書は静かに微笑む
- Chapter 4: The Retiring Magician Chooses the End/退魔師は終わりを選ぶ
- Epilogue: The Conclusion of the Index of Prohibited Books Girl/禁書目録の少女の結末
So what does everyone think? It's certainly unique, but considering the chapter title scheme of the Index novel is unique, it fits. ---- Suzuku 16:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
Looks great: but would it possibly be better to have whitespace on both sides of the '/' mark? Like:
- Prologue: The Tale of the Illusion Killer Boy / 幻想殺しの少年のお話
Just a minor suggestion. --Saganatsu 01:12, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
It's not a noticeable change, but I don't mind. -- Suzuku 06:41, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
First off I'd like to apologize to Teh Ping and everyone else. Like you said it probably would have been better to start off this discussion before sparking the whole little edit war that went on. In regards to the discussion itself I think your suggestion looks rather nice Suzuku, especially with Sagantsu's minor tweak. Maybe it would also be good to add a little note somewhere on the main page explaining how Kamachi formats the chapter titles so people can see where each part comes from. The Shadow 04:58, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
Holy canoli at these great walls of text! In any case, I quite like Suzuku's suggestion (with Saganatsu's addendum). --Tactician J 23:24, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
2011 is correct? Because at the moment its only 2010... --Darklor 18:22, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
Yes, it's correct, as the listing is for the entire year of 2011, which is why the polling is done at the end of 2010. ---- Suzuku 16:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
While we're on it, I tweaked the format for the award section a bit. Any objections/complaints? ---- Suzuku 18:00, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
I replaced it with an edited version of the wiki's. Yes, I realize the old one was also just a more cut up version of the wiki's, but the English wasn't as well worded and it looked a bit sparse. Objections? ---- Suzuku 18:00, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
So I added one. Thoughts? ---- Suzuku 18:55, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
Don't see any problems, and no objections to one personally. --Saganatsu 01:10, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
Hmm, I would say bold would be better for the first "To Aru Majutsu no Index". --Darklor 04:10, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
I tried that, but it came off looking weird, so I stuck with italics. -- Suzuku 06:38, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
chapter title Vol2 Ch3
I don't think that the chapter title for Volume 2 Chapter 3 is correct: it's an exact copy of Volume 1 Chapter 3, in both the english and translated japanese. could someone check this? --Saganatsu 04:30, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
No, it's correct. The chapter title uses the exact same Kanji and English title as the title of Volume 1 Chapter 3. -- Suzuku 06:00, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
"To Aru" Majutsu no Index
Wikipedia recently agreed to have the wiki page on this series be titled "Toaru Majutsu no Index". Should we follow their decision? --Tactician J 23:24, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
would be alot of work: main page, registration page, one formatting page, upto 10 pages per volume (4 chapters, one epilogue, one war report, one declaration of..., an afterword, a full text page, and a illustrations page)= upper limit of 243 pages needing moving, updating the links on all of them, updating the links on the sidebar... . If someone is willing to do all that, I'm all for it. --Saganatsu 00:08, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
I don't particularly mind either way, though I do think Toaru is the correct version myself. I don't know how formatting links work for the server admin, so it might be easier to just do it next the B-T server randomly goes down. Again. —EnigmaticRepose
I spotted a lot of changes to 'Toaru' in the Recent changes, at which point I came here looking for information; what is the rationale behind changing To Aru to Toaru? 'To Aru' are definitely two separate words; the first is the particle To, the second is the verb Aru. There is no verb Toaru that I know of, though there is a verb Tooru (通る). As far as I am aware, it is not standard practice to run together non-noun words by leaving out their spaces (the difference between 'Kami nomi zo Shiru Sekai' and 'Kami nomizo Shiru Sekai' which could easily be mistaken for a nonsensical 'Kami no mizo Shiru Sekai', for one thing...).
I call upon the weight of Google! '"To Aru Majutsu no Index"' 28 million results (including Toaru results), '"Toaru Majutsu no Index"' 3 million results, '"To Aru Majutsu no Index" -toaru' 26 million results. Google has spoken. (Can we reverse this local trend towards Toaru? Please? *puppy-dog eyes*)
Well, if you do not know for sure the correct choice, may as well go with what this^^ guy said. Probably won't make a difference either way, but according to myself and google, To Aru is the more recognizable. So why make hundreds of changes
I have direct proof from Wikipedia: their consensus on this series being "Toaru Majutsu no Index". Yes, I should have provided this earlier, but you could've just walked into the discussion page. In any case, massive move finished. P.S.: Don't do *action* when trying to convince me of something; it hurts your case really badly. --Tact 10:48, 16 June 2011 (UCT)
Was there a decision or two I missed somewhere? why did Kraft take out all the underscores on the chapter titles? was under impression that they were to be left in. also, why added the periods at the end? --Saganatsu 21:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
From the looks of it, Kraft has been re-editing the titles applying punctuation rules and probably assumed the underscores were a formatting issue without knowing that the current format was agreed upon by the editors and supervisors of the project (I don't think they realized that was how it was meant to be). It would be nice if the entire series could be locked only to have edits approved by a supervisor or editor to prevent drive-by editing on a project of such a large scale. --Lighthalzen 22:19, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
Dunno, but the ending period on the translated line helps distinguish the two titles. And I see he did it on the chapter pages themselves, but the decision was for the main page itself. The problem with the supervisor–editor thing is, we don't have a specific supervisor for the Index project, nor do any of them seem to frequent enough for all the updates we make to the main page (the percentage updates). We also don't have an editor with actual editor rights anyway (though I wish Tact would frequent more to get it). Besides, the translators would need the similar abilities just to create a page. —EnigmaticRepose
Is it possible for the translators to mark where the pages start and end? That would enable me to look up the original lines more easily, and I'd like to try making some nice-looking PDFs down the road... --Tactician J 14:28, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
I could go through eventually and help with that if I stop being lazy and when the tense issue is resolved. Anyway, I did a small preview of how it would look on parts 9–10 of volume 16's chapter 1. Basically, lines can be cut off randomly in the middle of the sentence (or words for that matter), so don't feel too reliant on the original formatting. Not to mention that every other page has the two titles for the chapter. And out of curiosity, how would you do the illustrations? Some colored ones have three-page-spreads and seeing an illustration after the part it happens in the text just isn't the same as seeing it as you turn the page, so would you use a two-page style, two-pages for just illustrations with the text page, or just one page at a time? —EnigmaticRepose 14:51, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
Text pages get single pages, but two-/three-page illustration spreads will be fused together, more or less. --Tactician J 15:03, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
Just wondering if I am the only one that's slightly uncomfortable with how thoughts are differentiated from the rest of the text in different ways. It seems that the most common methods of indicating thoughts are either in (parenthesis), italics, or (italics and parenthesis). Perhaps we can come to some kind of a standard for this... or is there a difference as to how certain thought processes are? (I don't have access to the Japanese text or cultural knowledge to know...) -Snorca 23:12, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
In the original texts, most thoughts are in parentheses but some also aren't, just like how most spoken dialogue is in quotes but some isn't. English novels also do it (the quoteless dialogues, though thoughts don't have to be emphasized with italics or parentheses), but I think it's more of a slight difference to not feel so abusive with them during dialogue/thought scenes. The italics is just something we started doing (I don't remember why?) and aren't in the original format. I don't think Japanese use italics at all, but they do have a way to emphasize certain parts of a line without just bolding it, though I forget what it's called. If you have any lines in mind that you'd like to me to look up and post as examples, go ahead, though it'll be in Japanese. —EnigmaticRepose
Occassionally some do use bold, but most of the time, most novels use 『』 or 【】 parentheses for emphasis. Italics look intuitive for monologue (and yes the Japanese don't use them). I've used it right from the start in LOLH, because I saw it in Toradora. Some CSR pages I saw use parentheses, but Italics just feel right to me. I've not read enough Index to know how the author presents thoughts. But based on your description, my guess is those in parentheses are First-Person monologue, while those that aren't are narrator-reported thoughts. --Larethian 04:11, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
Wow, never thought they might be monologues. I normally associate monologues with just quotation marks since they're said aloud. Now I'm even more confused as to what to do/how to read, haha. --Snorca 06:00, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
british vs american english
which english should we use: part of the project is in american english and part in british. It's not really that important to me which, but we should probably settle on one or the other. --Saganatsu 20:29, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
british will be better because they don`t use america--Cognitio
Do you mean to say that the story has English characters but no (few?) American characters? That makes some sense.--CarVac 22:16, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
That standard was established before we had multiple projects, and was left in. given that it was written for when we only had one project, should it be up to each project to decide which version? the original line was this:
the current version in place is
- Due to the nature of this website, and the nationality of the majority of Editors and Readers, the standard spelling lexicon for this Wiki will be based upon American English as defined by the Fourth Edition of the American Heritage Dictionary --5:37, 16 March 2007 by Smidge204
which was changed as part of the original update altering the format page from a Haruhi only version to a version for all projects.
also, Smidge204 stopped editing a year before this project was created: here vs here. and thus the format page, in it's current form, would not have considered a project that might have reason to use british english.
As the current text came about due to a change regarding the style of the formatting page, and not as an actual policy decision, and as the party who made the original style decision is no longer on the wiki to ask, I argue that the statement currently on the format page can be overridden by the people working on a particular project, especially if there is reason beyond personal preference, as has been argued above.
thus we come back to the question: which would the contributors prefer for this project? --Saganatsu 14:42, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
Ah stop arguing. As the one responsible for all of these, I'll take the charges (my job anyway, haven't updated the Supervisor tag)
I have already PMed Big Boss regarding this, so if he doesn't have any personal preference regarding this, I will make the decision.--Teh Ping 14:45, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
To quote the PM:
[quote="thelastguardian"]Well, if they are from England, of course they speak British English :p . Seems perfectly logical to me.[/quote]
There you have it. I'm going to introduce a new set of guidelines soon.
I'd let the England-based characters speak British English, but what about the narration? --Tactician J 15:03, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
Honestly, I don't like the idea of switching languages here and there so easily, feels weird to me because it's like the characters are in a different realm from the readers.--Teh Ping 15:57, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
who is this dragon in vol 15?
see volume 19 --Saganatsu 07:08, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
who's gonna translte volume 15 and 19?
can someone translate all of volume 15 and 19? the parts about shiage are just epic.
- Give it some time. JS06 is translating SS1. Volume 15 hasn't been translated dedicated-ly since December and Vol 19 was mostly translated by Flare in December-who is less active now. Volume 15 has a higher chance of being translated soon after SS1 is completed.
Well, I'm not letting anyone translate 15 until Joay himself says that he will allow others to take over.--Teh Ping 17:45, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
+ That's fine. Can you ask Joay if it is ok for others to take over vol 15?
Sounds like you are under the assumption that someone would do it if no Joay doesn't they might work the earlier novels... On a side note can someone post on the boards that activation email are down. I can't get the activation email and I can't post telling someone to look into that. --Shido 01:43, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
Way ahead of you, check js06's talk page.--Teh Ping 02:40, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
volume 23 and 24
i heard its out already, volume 23 and 24. are you guys going to translate them?
Volume 23 will be called New Testament Volume 1. As for whether we will be translating it, you can bet on it once we get resources.--Teh Ping 13:37, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
And Misaka Mikoto?
Looks like the novel have the "New testament" series and you already put a Spoier about Touma (Dead), Accelerator and Shiage, but WHAT HAPPENED TO MISAKA? (and index but I relly do not care too much).
SS Volume 2?
Just wondering: where in the timeline does SS Volume 2 take place? On the main page it's shown between Volumes 16 and 17, but on the Registration page it's shown between Volumes 19 and 20.
--Stiyl 00:34, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
according to Category:Alternative Languages, british english is an alternative language. does this mean this project is, or only that projects with a british english variant are alternative? --Saganatsu 19:28, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
In Volume 14 Chapter 3 Part 4, Tatemiya Saiji is referred to as "Substitute Pope". He was previously referred to in Volumes 7 and 11 as "substitute Supreme Pontiff" (likewise, Kanzaki Kaori is referred to as "Supreme Pontiff"). If the Japanese writing for these terms is the same in each instance, then it would be best to pick a standard translation and use that.
--Stiyl 05:31, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
Edit: Also "Acqua of the Back" (Volume 14 Epilogue) versus "Acqua of the Rear".
--Stiyl 06:21, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
It's Supreme Pontiff and Acqua of the Back, according to the TamnI wiki. We follow their spellings and terminology, as far as I know. --Saganatsu 06:37, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
Ah, alright then. I've been avoiding looking at the wiki because every time I look at it, I accidentally read another spoiler.
--Stiyl 04:13, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
New Testament: Toaru Majutsu no Index or Toaru Majutsu no Index: New Testament?
Just to make sure we have a set standard for how the title should be, should we refer to the new series with NT in front of the title or after? Since Kamachi has "Shinyaku" in front of "Toaru Majutsu no Index", I'm inclined to believe that it's his intention to have the series referred to with New Testament at the front of the title. Also, do really need to have 'NT' in front of the volumes? I don't think it's necessary personally. -- Suzuku 22:27, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Well, I just named it like that because I was too lazy to put in spacing in front...--Teh Ping 07:58, 23 March 2011 (EDT)
Volume 22 - continuation?
If I may ask, I've been around B-T since the last week of October and I noticed that Volume 22 almost done and were left hanging, will any translator still going to translate the rest of the parts? Please don't take my question in a different way, thank you. -- アクシス
As of now, our only hope here is for either js06 or pikachuwei to finish up those parts. I'm out, that's for sure. No problems asking about who will translate the volumes or whatsoever, but I am 'a bit' annoyed about timeframes, seeing how recent events have gone for me, so I am terribly sorry if I antagonized anyone because of this.--Teh Ping 07:43, 23 March 2011 (EDT)
Iiya, Iiya, I truly understand, I'm just asking, if it is going to be continued or not because I'm planning to order the novel, if it is not (^_^;). Your answer was a yes, so I'll keep waiting, there're still many LN's here anyway that are very interesting to read like Bt-Tt-Shoukanjuu, Mushi to Medama, Fate/Zero, ZnT and many more that'll take me months to finish it. Thanks for anwsering (￣▽￣)ノ -- アクシス
Are there plans to translate those? Because if not, I suggest that they link to the summaries posted in the To Aru wiki, so that people can at least know what happens in those stories.
Maybe, good point. As of now, there are plans to translate the side story, but the main story takes precedence. I can assure you though that there are plans to do that.--Teh Ping 07:43, 23 March 2011 (EDT)
Then, if main story is highest priority, then will translation of Volume 17 be next after NT is completed? --126.96.36.199 12:59, 25 March 2011 (EDT)Lojik:)
Is there a PDF version for Toaru Kagaku no Railgun SS: A Superfluous Story, or A Certain Incident’s End? Been looking around and couldn't find one.
Volume SS1 - Afterword?
Will the afterword of SS1 be translated? I'm quite interested in Kamachi Kazuma's thoughts.
When Js06 posted the link to the epilogue (or was it the full text?) on 4chan, I asked him if there was no afterword. He said there isn't. I also checked now the raw, and seems the last thing is the epilogue. Kokonice 18:21, 19 April 2011 (UCT)
Are there any translations regarding Bardway?
With her appearance in New Testament and the side-mention in the arc for volumes 17/18 making her existence increasingly relevant, is there any possibility of translations of stories in which Bardway has appeared directly (referred to on the Wikipedia character page)? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Toaru_Majutsu_no_Index_characters#Dawn-colored_Sunlight) (Thank you very much for your time; I wish to convey extreme gratitude for the translating which has been done!)
Well, the rest are on the side stories, which aren't translated, yet.--Teh Ping 10:09, 22 May 2011 (UCT)
Kreuzhev or Croitsev ?
I recently made some edits to standardize the name, so I change croitsev to kreuzhev, but after further check, it seems the toaru wikia use Croitsev and the Project Guidelines also use it. But Kreuzhev seems more original in terms of russian name. Which one should we use? Teh_Ping use Croitsev in vol 4 and Js06 use Kreuzhev in later volumes Xenocross 21:55, 22 June 2011 (UCT)
It's "Croitsef", according to Season 2's character info on her. I know I indicated this in the Project-Specific Guidelines... --Tact 01:47, 24 June 2011 (UCT)
OMG YOU DID IT!!! Thank you guys so much and please keep up the good work on the side stories! (Yeah, I know some of the early on volumes of the main series aren't finished, but people can just watch season 1 of the show to find out what happens) Question: Is the author of TAMnI a lolicon? There's loli every where in each chapter of the book
- Light Novel authors tend to be lolicons. Or they think that lolicon protagonists are awesome. The pedo protagonist made me stop reading Hidan to Aria and watching Shana. Hopefully Touma won't end up a lolicon.
Religion vs Denomination
I've seen it multiple times through the series, and the following stood out the most: "The three largest religions of Christianity have finally joined forces." Technically, the only Religion at play here is Christianity, The Anglican Church, The Roman Catholic Church and The Russian Orthodox Church are all denominations of Christianity, not religions of Christianity (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_denomination) --Draringi 15:47, 4 July 2011 (UCT)
"The three largest factions of Christianity have finally joined forces." Better? Kokonice 16:28, 4 July 2011 (UCT)
That is correct. For me, I put it as 'sect' to make it as unrealistic though.
My vicar's going to give me one long sermon if he finds out that the 'model student' is actually doing this series...--Teh Ping 16:41, 4 July 2011 (UCT)
@Kokonice: I was thinking "The three largest denominations of Christianity have finally joined forces.", but anything other than religion is an improvement --Draringi 01:23, 6 July 2011 (UCT)
Something that may need to change
In the "Others" section in the "Series Overview" section, it says next to the two Railgun SS that they are each a set of eight short stories. I haven't read them yet, but I was under the impression that they were each a whole story split into eight parts and not eight stand alone stories. Is a change necessary?
Zero2001 was nice and fixed the mess I made into this great navbar:
Shall we use this? I can't see any downsides.--Saganatsu 07:31, 17 August 2011 (CDT)
Other than it looking like a wikipedia Navbar (with all the additional navs, I have no problems with it, go for it then.--Teh Ping 07:36, 17 August 2011 (CDT)
How should we add the official parody to the nav bar? in with side stories? under it's own section? a subsection of sidestories? just keep it left out? --Saganatsu (talk) 22:38, 26 February 2013 (CST)
I just started reading Vol. 19 and it seems to need some heavy editing, at least in the beginning. It's readable, but it does distract from the story a little. I'd help myself, but I'd rather get up to date with the series first.
well, volume 19 will be fully locked on 17/10/2011 if the date doesnt change again, so if you are up to date be4 that you can try to edit yourself, just take care to follow the format standards Carj 20:32, 17 August 2011 (CDT)
Like I said, I can help. But I would seriously advise for a veteran editor to check it out before the lock. For starters, while I'm confident with my English, it isn't my native language. 188.8.131.52 00:01, 18 August 2011 (CDT)
I could probably edit volume 19 sooner or later because I still have to read volumes 15, SS 2, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22 for personal interest. I could just edit the volumes as I read, but I would like another editor to assist me if possible. Hiro Hayase 06:31, 18 August 2011 (CDT)
Well, I figure that I can edit as I read as well. If you don't need someone with experience I may be of assistance.184.108.40.206 13:37, 18 August 2011 (CDT)
I would strongly recommend creating an account first if you're going actively edit. Your help is more than welcomed. --Hiro Hayase 15:17, 18 August 2011 (CDT)
I started a little bit, please check it up (ch. 1, part 1). --ppaaccoojrf 17:39, 18 August 2011 (CDT)
Unreadable emails in SS1 / vol14
Hi, does anyone know what was in the emails Misaka sent to Toma during the SS1 arc where Toma was having the class hot-pot outing? I'm re-reading the novels (good job translators!) but cannot find out what was the event for the handphone mails. It was said Misaka also called Toma but lost connection. Would be grateful if anyone can tell me thanks!
At this point it's not revealed: we'll have to wait for the railgun manga to get there... --Saganatsu 07:25, 19 August 2011 (CDT)
I see, thanks. I thought it might be involved with one of the SS with Misaka as the lead. Lets see what the author comes up with.
NT3 Chapter Names
Well, after reading the prologue, I have a strong belief that what I had "In the Fifty States" is more accurate. Fifty States refers to the United States, and there is no mention of a fiftieth state or anything like that in the prologue. What are the opinions of others? --jonathanasdf 19:31, 11 December 2011 (CST)
- No, the chapter title is correct. The scene takes place in Hawaii, which was the 50th and final(for now) state to join the United States. 220.127.116.11 19:42, 11 December 2011 (CST)
- Ahh, thanks for explaining that. --jonathanasdf 19:45, 11 December 2011 (CST)
Was this ever translated?
NT Volume 4
Just a suggestion. When the traslition of NT 4 is finished you could divde the book in 4, 5 or 8 chapters, because that should look better. I do not understand why the autor divided the book like that.
honestly by the looks of the chapters it looks like an ss volume, if you know what i mean. Anyways i think most tlers like to keep everything as close to the authors work as possible.--J112 15:09, 13 March 2012 (CDT)
I know that, but you could use the "Period" parts to divide the chapters, there are 3 "Periods", and in the end you have some chapters like "A_Cardinal_Error.34", "Capter n" and the epilogue.
I suggest something like this (when the translation is finished):
- Chapter 1 (01-07)
- Chapter 2 (08-21)
- Chapter 3 (22-32)
- Chapter 4 (33-37)
- Chapters 01-07
- Chapters 08-21
- Chapters 22-32
- Chapters 33-37
- Chapter 1
- Chapter 2
- Chapter 3
- Chapter 4
NOTE: 07, 21 and 32 are "Period" parts
js06 recently translated his comments info on the character designs and such. isn't it possible for those to be added here as well? Hao-sama 08:33, 13 June 2012 (CDT)
The extent of Touma's ability's nullifying...
I recall the time when Index first experience Touma's ability there was a mention of something like negate God's miracles and bringing him misfortune. Could that right hand have nullified Touma's ability to perceive the garden thrust before his eyes every single day? I mean there are instances where you can tell he is a healthy young male but REALLY? REALLY REALLY? Before the great battle between 'the erotic fallen angel vs the ever so holy elemental fairy' I would have sought proper compensation to bring forth such a grand battle even sooner. He may be suffering from a misfortune greater than we can imagine.
That's for my first theory. However my second theory is that right hand brings misfortune to others. As Mikoto is Misuzu's biological daughter but the difference is... well anyways, maybe her contact with Touma had some unwanted effects? How convenient was the explanation of what happened to Fraulein Kreutune afterwords? Even though Hamazura has Takitsubo did Touma's intervention influence Fremea's presence. Accelerator only needed to complete the Level 6 Shift Project, his powers weren't meant for babysitting. Can Touma's right hand really negate God's miracles? Is the world facing a new crisis after WWIII? What happen to that forest of huge breast from when first appeared in the NT series? What the hell is he doing with people like Birdway and Cendrillon?
-for your first theory I'm pretty sure that he just claims that ...it can nullify anything it touches .. he Is healthy bit he used to misfortune that he really don't see any fortune in getting a girl (espicially after index bitting him always and mikoto shocking him almost every time they meet) another thing that he don't remember meeting them the first time it makes him awkward w/them .. about mikoto's ""unwanted effects?"" she still young right ?--Ahmadmanga (talk) 16:39, 14 April 2013 (CDT)
What happened . .
Hello guys, just recently checked TaMnI wiki page and noticed the Supervisor notice, (Not that I want to add further into the subject), removal of Novel Cover Illustrations for each volume. I mean, what happened? (point = Internal wars? where/what is this?). Also, the illustrations for each volume was already translated and under editing, all that is still untranslated would be Volume 6 of New Testament. Carinderyeah (talk) 00:01, 23 March 2013 (CDT)
Regarding the novel cover illustrations, I don't think they have ever been next to each volume. Some projects seem to have the cover illustrations next to the volumes on the main page; others, like this one, simply don't. Regarding the supervisor notice, there was one set of undo's and a little discussion regarding some formatting. Unless there were communications that weren't visible to me, I assumed that TehPing was just preemptively saying not get him involved. I wouldn't have called it a "war". Perhaps it is a little confusing to visitors to have that bit of the message be the first thing they see coming to this page... --Cthaeh (talk) 18:46, 23 March 2013 (CDT)
Hello, when I was importing volume 21 into my library, I noticed that it shared the same metadata as volume 20, and problems occurred. For some reason, I can't edit the PDF's metadata, so I would appreciate it if someone could reupload it with the proper metadata. Thanks.
Seivelun sisters' paired language quirks:
I've previously asked and learned that Fremea's often-used term is 'Daitai'. Today, watching the eighth Railgun S episode, I've learned that Frenda also uses a term often, 'Kekkyoku'.
If I understand correctly, currently the translations here are consistent with those on the To Aru/Toaru wiki, 'Essentially' and 'Basically'. However, from the nuances of common use, 'Daitai' and 'Kekkyoku' can also be translated as 'In the first place' and 'In the end'. These can be seen as complementary(/bookend) phrases, appropriate given the sibling relationship (and maybe also their younger/older statuses?), and may be better choices for communicating that link to readers unaware of the terms' original forms.
I am aware that it would be inconvenient to go through all usages and implement this, but I nevertheless request that it be considered. If time passes and there is no objection, I may attempt this myself (with my apologies if I attempt it and it is objected to after the fact). Thank you for your time! -Multipartite (talk) 03:43, 1 June 2013 (CDT)
My opinion as someone who reads and edits Index is that, in general for things that fall into the realm of preference/format, it's good to go with what the translator(s) use so that it's consistent with the least number of edits. Not having any jp language skills, I can't speak to whether the nuance of those terms would be a matter of accuracy rather than preference, but if so, it seems to me that it would then be considered a major edit that should be approved by the translator or supervisor first. --Cthaeh (talk) 20:06, 2 June 2013 (CDT)
- Thank you for this! The translators are likely multiple, and the "just don't involve me" supervisor notice on the main page leaves doubt as to the preferred course of action, but the '[...]before any major contribution' paragraph on the Registration page gives someone else to approach for guidance (though in theory only required for Anonymous contributions?). *will attempt to do so* -Multipartite (talk) 16:20, 3 June 2013 (CDT)
- While there have been many translators who have contributed, the only currently active one is js06. And as for supervisor, I was referring to the one in the project staff list, Teh_Ping; however, as you noted, the supervisor notice implies he may not be interested in deciding on this issue. I noticed that you contacted thelastgaurdian. He is the head admin (creator) for the wiki, and he wouldn't normally get involved with project specific things like this. Also, he apparently no longer visits the wiki frequently and is very hard to get a hold of. I would say js06 is the one you most likely want to contact. --Cthaeh (talk) 17:13, 3 June 2013 (CDT)
This had never really occurred to me as "in the first place" is a secondary meaning of 大体 and I was trying to match it to "basically", but you have a point. On top of that, I honestly can't even remember why I chose "basically" instead of the more accurate "in the end" for Frenda. You can change it if you want and I'll check to see what is being used the next time one of the characters shows up. However, I've noticed that people often oppose changes to accepted translations of terms or speech patterns even when the new version is better and/or more accurate, so it's possible people will try to change it back or complain. Js06 (talk) 12:14, 4 June 2013 (CDT)
That works for me. Anyone that has a problem with the change can be linked to this page for further discussion. I'll begin work on changing the text in the illustrations and the PDFs. Were you going to go ahead and make the changes on BT Multipartite? -Ultranova17 (talk) 14:04, 4 June 2013 (CDT)
ooh, do go through with this. I do believe that since at least in this case, "in the first place" and "in the end" carry significant (if not symbolic) meaning that shouldn't be lost, it would be good to have the translations reflect this. I am behind you 100% (and too lazy to help you out myself) SonodaYuki (talk) 21:06, 4 June 2013 (CDT)
My thanks! I would be glad to attempt the changes; I will aim to begin within the day (possibly in two-to-three hours when I should have a large block of time). If I record the number of changes in each section here, it should make it easier to change again in the worst-case scenario. -Multipartite (talk) 03:14, 5 June 2013 (CDT)
(Starting with the special cases first, then panning out to the normal cases.)
Frenda wiki page, 2 changes; Fremea wiki page, 3 changes.
NTV6C5 Part 1, 4 (proxy) Frenda changes; other parts, 7 Fremea changes.
No mention of either sister's name in any of the Side Stories, in SS1, or in SS2. No changes to make in V22.
Frenda's lifespan narrowed down to V15 chapters 2 and 4 only, to my surprise. Chapter 2, 8 Frenda changes (Part 2 only); Chapter 4, 0 Frenda changes.
In V15C4, there's a line 'Basically, that was all Frenda was – all a comrade was – to Mugino.' As it's not something that Frenda says I've left it unchanged, but if it's 'Kekkyoku' then it's very likely a deliberate narrative reference to her way of speaking, in which case it should be changed.
Saving this record for the moment; will immediately continue and finish (unless I've overlooked a volume) with the NT volumes, looking for Fremea's name and/or words only. This is taking a little longer than it otherwise might as I find myself enjoying rereading sections I haven't read in a while. *happiness* -Multipartite (talk) 06:33, 5 June 2013 (CDT)
- (Actually, my desire for thoroughness/completeness is niggling at me. I'm assuming 'Kekkyoku' for the V15C4 line and changing it, but please change it back if it's in fact different. -Multipartite (talk) 06:38, 5 June 2013 (CDT))
NTV1C3 8 Fremea changes; NTV1C4 5 Fremea changes; NTV1C5 4 Fremea changes.
I consistently end up nostalgically rereading the chapters... nevertheless, it's getting late, so I'll make an effort to not do so for the remaining volumes.
NTV2C2 5 Fremea changes; NTV2C3 1 Fremea change.
NTV5C2 2 Fremea changes; NTV5C4 20 Fremea changes.
NTV6C6 10 Fremea changes; NTV6C7 2 Fremea changes.
NTV6C2 5 Fremea changes; NTV6C3 3 Fremea changes; NTV6C4 2 Fremea changes; NTV6Epilogue 3 Fremea changes.
Complete! (Unless I've overlooked something.) ((*happiness*)) -Multipartite (talk) 11:10, 5 June 2013 (CDT)
Regarding the Creation of a Calendar/Timeline Section for the Index Project Page
Okay, maybe not a timeline per say (as we already have one on the Index Wiki).
It is now the tenth year of the Index franchise and the material in it is getting 'slightly' annoying to put into some sort of chronological order. Not surprising since the franchise spans 2 light novel series, 3 manga series, 4 anime series and a bunch of side stories.
I have noticed for a while that on the Sword Art Online page there is a timeline section which organizes and presents the events that occur in the light novels as a visual timeline and a text based one similar to the one on the Index Wiki. This is not what I am asking for.
What I am asking for is a similar section on the Index page which displays a visual representation of all of the events which have occurred in the Index Light Novel Series, the Railgun manga series and the Side Stories. However since the events in Index seem to occur in consecutive short periods of time usually lasting a day to 3 days, it would not be a timeline but more of a calendar for the current year in the Index continuity.
Of course, I am not asking any of you guys to make it. I've sort of already gone through the trouble. I have created a PNG file called A Certain Unified Calendar which organizes every single story arc in the light novels, manga and adaptations (minus a few exceptions) into a nice colour coded calendar. The calendar is chronologically correct, well presented and has a small file size (368KB). There are spoilers for a few of the early novels but aside from that the only real spoilers are the names of the story arcs.
I made the calendar for a few reasons. Firstly, IMO the timeline on the Index wiki is far too congested with information and we needed a nice streamlined way of viewing the order of events. Secondly, for the sake of the unfortunately split fanbases of both Index and Railgun. Index and Railgun form an interconnected narrative and particularly in Railgun, one requires knowledge of the events and timeline of the other series to get 100 percent of the implied meaning. Also I was getting tired of Railgun fans watching the current Railgun S anime questioning the order of events or "whether a certain event had occurred yet or not", etc... Lastly, I had a lot of free time on my hands and would be happy to share this with the fandom. There may also be a small hint of jealousy there due to Sword Art Online but you can ignore that.
I would love to hear your thoughts on this. Also as I am a new user here I am not entirely sure how to upload the file on my computer to the site if need be; rather I dont know any of the formalities on this site. A bit of help on that would also be appreciated.--OH&S (talk) 03:26, 8 July 2013 (CDT)
Well since no one has said anything to the contrary, I have gone ahead and created a section for the Calendar. If no one likes the inclusion of the calendar, first discuss it here and remove it on an agreed consensus. In the mean time, I will eventually ask for a thread to be opened up on the Animesuki forum as the place for discussion regarding any revisions that may need to be made to the calendar as the story progresses.--OH&S (talk) 07:52, 10 July 2013 (CDT)
Alright. I love it. Thank you so much. I've been re-reading the novels, and I need to get around to watching the Railgun anime. This makes it a lot easier to remember what went on in which volume and when. Astralmeson (talk) 13:08, 10 July 2013 (CDT)
I've seen that all of the names of Gremlin magicians have been explained... but one. And that's Othinus. From what I've found, "Othinus" is latin for "Odin", which explains why she's the head and why she seeks Gungnir. And I don't know if it will be relevant, but on Odin's second exile, he was replaced by Ullr (Ollerus, in latin), an skiing hunting archer god (take note Odin was originally a hunting god too).--Kemm (talk) 14:05, 24 September 2013 (CDT)
Index project page renovations feedback
Just my personal opinion/feedback on the changes to the project page. My personal preference is to avoid extra clicking, even at the expense of extra scrolling; so I preferred it when the chapter links were available without having to click the "show" icon, even if it meant I had to scroll (scroll wheel ftw) though the entire (long) page. For things like awards, I do prefer them hidden since I don't need to see them each time I visit the page. But finding and clicking on the chapter links is the main reason I visit the page. Also, one unfortunate loss of functionality is that clicking on a link in the table of contents no longer brings you to that volume (unless you've already clicked show to open the table). My preference/vote would be that the tables that hide the chapters be set to default open when loading the page, and then those that want to can close them by clicking "hide". With regards to the volume covers, I don't think it's necessary, but I'm pretty apathetic. --Cthaeh (talk) 20:51, 2 December 2013 (CST)
Also, particularly if the chapter tables stay closed, I suggest adding the volume ranges in parenthesis for each set so it's easier to know which table needs to be opened to find the volume you want. --Cthaeh (talk) 20:51, 2 December 2013 (CST)
I have made edits such that the collapsible tables will start open when you first navigate to the page (or when the page is refreshed). This means you will be able to use the ToC to navigate to the novel you want without hassle or needing to open tables, etc. I am hesitant about making changes to the ToC as I dont know how these edits may influence viewing the series on the bakareader ex app (I am probably worrying about this unneccesarily). If there are no problems with that, I too agree that ToC should be edited to reflect the tables. Also, now that the tables will start open, I may be able to take out the volume ranges in the parenthesis (with consultation obviously).
The addition of the novel covers to the page shouldn't really affect older readers of the series (rather they should be indifferent to it); however, as long as it makes the page and series even just a little bit more enticing, appealing, accessible to the newer readers it can't be a bad thing. I stopped at Volume 22 after being given a heads up by Skies about getting permission from Teh Ping. I have tried to contact him via Animesuki and his Index Talk Page for feedback regarding the edits but he has yet to respond (though he gave me permission to use the tables). If he doesn't say anything regarding them, I will probably put up the rest of the covers within a week from now unless Teh Ping responds. It should be easy to remove the covers and change things back to how they were should Teh Ping say otherwise. --OH&S (talk) 01:44, 6 December 2013 (CST)
- I have edited headings so that the ToC reflects the collapsible tables.--OH&S (talk) 15:50, 6 December 2013 (CST)
- I have modified the page a bit more by compacting the Parody Stories Section, adding in experimental 'Back to Contents' links and other minor edits.--OH&S (talk) 20:22, 7 December 2013 (CST)
- I think I have gotten the hard part out of the way. I have changed the code on the collapsible tables so that they work better with the browser. Each collapsible table can now be expanded and collapsed by clicking on the corresponding colour bar. The opening and closing animations for the tables have noticably improved. The tables have the same initial state from before so there should be no hassles with navigating using the ToC.
- Lastly, I have added a toggle above the ToC that once clicked, collapses all of the open novel sections. This is particularly useful when first navigating to the page and allows the viewer to quickly close all the open sections. The downside is that the code screws up if they the sections arent all open or all closed. eg. if one is open and the rest are closed, clicking the button will lead to one being closed and the rest being opened. If there is a code that only collapses the novel sections, I am all ears.
- Things left to do include:
- Fixing the aforementioned toggle problem.
- Add novel covers for the rest of the series (follwing the plan that was outlined above)
- Modify first paragraph to include updated information (towards end of month)
- I was contemplating making a character introduction section as well but I realised how stupid that would be for this series.
- I plan to finalise all of these edits before New Testament Volume 9 is released. Continual feedback is welcome as always.--OH&S (talk) 22:24, 8 December 2013 (CST)
- One thing that seems a little awkward to me is having the close/open all bar (and now the individuals too) at the top of the page. Because of the toc and other sections in between, that bar isn't together with the actual volumes, so it's a little strange to open and close them without being able to see it happen. I would probably put it right above the "The Toaru Majutsu no Index series" header.
- Something very minor is that the "series overview" collapsible tables at the bottom currently have the two newest entries outside the tables, but I would say they can be lumped in with the rest that are under the table (even if there translations haven't been completed). I also prefer the current version of the side stories collapsible table where the Necessarius SS is included in the table, as opposed to a past version where it was the only thing outside the tables when they were collapsed. --Cthaeh (talk) 20:21, 10 December 2013 (CST)
It's somewhat difficult for me to give feedback because I think I have a different personal preference for the project page. I tend to prefer things be simple, but you obviously prefer the added functionality (I'm not saying either is view is better than the other). I think the following things will fall under this difference of views, so they're less likely to be useful for your vision for the project page: --Cthaeh (talk) 20:21, 10 December 2013 (CST)
- I do think that which volumes went into the anime is useful information to have somewhere on the page (since people always ask), but I probably wouldn't have divided up the volume links into as many pieces. I probably would have just made OT, NT, and other stories as tables, under the assumption that the table collapse would be most commonly used by people skipping OT to get to the newest NT chapter (but I still prefer to have all tables default open). The other things is the divisions use headers/breakdowns that are, I assume, not official labels (Prelude to War, WWIII, Gremlin Saga), though I could be wrong about that. I think they're very reasonable labels, but it still falls under my general preference of keeping things simple.
- For me personally, the back to contents links aren't as necessary since I just use the (browser's) back button on my mouse. But maybe others would use them.
- I would probably put all of the award years under a single collapsible table, since that would be less clicking for me if I wanted to look at the awards over the years (my guess is that someone would want to either look at all of the awards or none of them). I do agree with the use of the collapsed table in general here, because the awards are too long and would take up too much space before getting to the chapter links. I would also same the same thing (a single collapsible table) for the "series overview" tables at the end, but there's fewer there, so I don't notice it as much.
- When I first encountered your new style of table, it took me a little getting used to the fact that the whole thing was effectively a button and that my mouse cursor didn't switch to the 'link' version (a hand). Though this might just mean I'm not as used to dealing with interactive websites. I do think the tables are fancier with this new version, and I wouldn't suggest changing anything. I just thought I'd mention it here since it was the first thing I noticed about them, though I've gotten perfectly used it after using them a few times.
- The cover images don't currently align with the volume headers. Many pages with cover images have code to do that, but I'm not sure if I would actually want it here because it would make everything a little bit longer. But as I said before, I'm pretty apathetic about cover images whatever is done with them (unless it's the left-right alignment, then I'd have a stronger opinion against it, no offense meant to Cautr).
As I said, I don't expect you to necessarily act on that feedback since our viewpoints are different, I was just elaborating on those since you asked for feedback. As far as the actual code, I don't notice any bugs when using it, and the tables do have some fancy functionality and formatting. --Cthaeh (talk) 20:21, 10 December 2013 (CST)
Well you don't need to worry about whether your feedback will be helpful or not. Even a contrarian's feedback has its uses. If I can make you happy at the same time as accomplishing my goals, its a victory for everyone! Anyway, just to address the things you have said:
- "I would probably put (the template) right above the "The Toaru Majutsu no Index series" header." == That sounds like it is worth trying.
- "Something very minor is that the "series overview" collapsible tables at the bottom currently have the two newest entries outside the tables, but I would say they can be lumped in with the rest that are under the table" == I can't say that I have strong opinions about this but I do prefer it as it is. It is a way for people to see what the latest content in the franchise is.
- "...but I probably wouldn't have divided up the volume links into as many pieces." == Teh Ping originally suggested this layout, so I went with that idea. This could change in the future but honestly I think that the Season 1 and 2 sections should be left as is.
- "For me personally, the back to contents links aren't as necessary since I just use the (browser's) back button on my mouse. But maybe others would use them." == I guess I could put less emphasis on the links then (like in the Parody and Short Stories Sections).
- "I would probably put all of the award years under a single collapsible table..." == Maybe...In the short term I can add a toggle just like the ones for the novel sections that switches open and closed sections.
- "...my mouse cursor didn't switch to the 'link' version (a hand)." == I can fix that.
- Master Toggle has been moved down
- Master Toggle for Awards Section created
- TOC links are now smaller
- Mouse changes to pointer (hand) when hovering above all toggles.
- Page looks much better in general now.
Wow, I have no idea such things can be done on the wiki XD.
Actually, I wanted to break volumes 14-19 down into smaller parts, but because of the focus of 3 different protagonists, I decided not to (then again, it would be redundant to divide everything into such small parts when the aim of the collapsable tables are to prevent that). I felt that there should at least be seasons 1 and 2 since many new fans would probably have started from the anime, and would want to know where to continue after this.
Anyway, that is a solid job (okay, easily an understatement here) right there. I'm fine with the covers being placed on the main page, but for consistency sake, please continue to place the other covers on the main page.
I really like the master Open/Close row. If I may offer one more suggestion for conformity, a brief teaser of Volumes 1~22 before the start of the volumes, like the New Testament section. --Skies (talk) 18:00, 11 December 2013 (CST)
I have updated the page with the rest of the novel covers and changed the picture that is shown with the New testament teaser.
I am not entirely sure as to what could be put in the teaser for Volumes 1~22 as I feel that it is already adequately covered in the story synopsis.
At the very least, the vast majority of the renovations appear to be done.
Now lets hope a new Toaru anime is announced in the coming year...10th anniversary on April 10 2014 after all.--OH&S (talk) 22:44, 11 December 2013 (CST)
- Updated the opening paragraph of the page with more current information. With this all of the renovations appear to be over... unless someone wants me to make a character introduction section. That would be hell...--OH&S (talk) 04:20, 13 December 2013 (CST)
This is a little late given that the section is already under construction, but I dislike the idea of including a character introduction section. It goes back to my general preference for a simple things and keeping the project page smaller. I don't think character introduction information is necessary or directly relevant for reading the series; and it's starting to overlap with outside sources of information such as the TAMNI wikia. Obviously a few other projects have it, so there are people who like it, but that's my two cents. --Cthaeh (talk) 08:51, 14 December 2013 (CST)
I love the changes to the site, except when one tries using the android app from this site, BakaReader EX, none of the volumes or chapters show up to click on.--18.104.22.168 15:43, 14 December 2013 (CST)
Leaving the whole issue of the character introduction aside for now, I really enjoy using the BakaReader EX App as it is very convenient for reading light novels; so I was rather worried when the above comment mentioned that none of the volumes or chapters show up to click on. However, when I checked the app on my phone, and downloaded all chapters, everything still seems to be working. I have actually been double checking the app to see if my edits were screwing up the Index section. However, when I deleted a volume and tried to refresh to see if the volume would come back, it didn't. I have a sneaking suspicion that I know what is causing the problem but for that, I will need to test it. Please bare with me....--OH&S (talk) 06:04, 15 December 2013 (CST)
Aaaaaand the problem has been identified. When I changed the layout of the page in order to have the ToC reflect the page's contents, I made the Headings of the Novels one level lower. Turns out, the app only registers novels if their Heading is Level 3 (if it is surrounded by 3 equals signs). We will have to sacrifice the look of the ToC in order to get the page working again on the app. I believe that the app holds more importance than the ToC. I will get to work on it straight away.--OH&S (talk) 06:16, 15 December 2013 (CST)
The ToC layout has been changed back to what it used to be in order to fix the problem occurring on the BakaReader EX App. Now all new volumes should be appearing as normal. Thanks alot to 22.214.171.124 for pointing it out as I would have missed it otherwise. For those of you not in the know, a problem occurred if attempting to refresha nd download a completely unlisted volume on the app. Any missing volumes wouldn't show up. The problem was directly caused by changing the ToC layout (it seems the layout is crucial for the functioning of the app). Thank God this was solved before the release of Volume NT9; I would have been extremely pissed off if the problem came to light during that time.
- ...And with that finally solved, I am making a character's introduction section (similar to Oda Nobuna and DxD) on my user page as a trial. Cthaeh's comment regarding the intro has slightly disheartened me in continuing but perhaps other people have a different view on it. Veteran readers shouldn't really care: it will be in an already-collapsed table upon load. So you don't have to read or view it. I have been creating it in a way that doesn't have any spoilers or reveal any of the important plot but you can judge that for yourself. Again, it is mostly for newer readers to get interested in the series, just like the novel covers. If you are curious as to how it looks, check my user page to see how it is coming along. Perhaps you could even give me suggestions for the character descriptions...I am struggling with those...--OH&S (talk) 06:52, 15 December 2013 (CST)
Sorry, my earlier comment was hastily written, didn't really say what I intended, and came out pretty negative as a result. The bulk of my opinion would be better represented as "more trouble than it's worth". There are a lot of characters in Index, so it's a lot of work. The fact that you've already started likely means you likely think it's worth the trouble. I have a minimalist opinion in general, so that affects in my personal opinion on character sections, but I'm probably in the minority. As you said, it really doesn't affect the long time readers that much. If you really did want feedback for casual/new readers, they probably don't look at discussion pages; the place with the highest number of casual readers is likely the facebook page. --Cthaeh (talk) 12:00, 15 December 2013 (CST)
I'm gonna be blunt when I say I frankly don't want to see character introductions on the project page. I don't honestly like the format of the Highschool DxD project page. I think we're at the point now where we should slow down on the edits. I really liked how the Index page looked prior to adding the collapsing tables. At this point I think the expansion of the page is reaching overly zealous.--Skies (talk) 14:06, 15 December 2013 (CST)
And with that, I am outnumbered in opinion regarding the character's section. I think Skies makes a fair point. The page has changed quite a bit in look since I have started editing; with collapsing tables and novel covers etc. I will play it safe and end this editing process this time around. The original goals of the edits were to compact the page's length and make the page a bit more appealing to newer readers. I think those goals have been accomplished and adding a new section would be overkill. I will still make the character's section in private but with no actual intention of using it in the short term. Perhaps if because of a new anime, Index's light novel popularity becomes red hot again and new readers will visit the page, then I can reconsider the proposal then. But such a time would happen, at least a year from now... I guess now I can finally go back to my original task then.--OH&S (talk) 16:58, 15 December 2013 (CST)
This is not really an update but more of a summary of the recent changes that have been made to the Index Main Page. Previous feedback and conversations have been collapsed.
- Modified opening paragraph to better reflect the current standing of the series in regards to franchise material and recent awards. Extra information has been hidden in a collapsed-on-load table. (Page Space Saved)
- Greatly expanded Awards section with past and recent Kono LN ga Sugoi! Rankings
- Placed Awards for different years in collapsed-on-load tables with clickable custom toggles to open/close years. (Page Space Saved)
- Placed great portion of the list of updates into a collapsed-on-load table with clickable custom toggles titled 'Older Updates.'
Due to compatability isses with the Firefox Browser, the Updates Section Collapsing table itself shouldn't be placed in div tags.Update: Section is now placed in div tags after site was updated--OH&S (talk) 20:10, 14 January 2014 (CST)
- Split the novel sections into different sub-sections with First Series headings suggested by Teh Ping. Each sub-section is a collapsible table with clickable custom toggles. (Page Space Saved when collapsed)
- Novel Sections collapsible tables are open-on-load due to some readers using the Table of Contents (ToC) to navigate. ToC links do not work unless collapsible table is open.
- ToC does NOT reflect the new subsections as a formatting issue leads to the BakaReader EX App not functioning properly for the Index novels. Problems that occurred when this was being tested should not be happening anymore.Small Update: BakaReader EX seems to have updated the App to handle the previous layout of the ToC. But I am fine with things as they are right now.--OH&S (talk) 19:28, 25 December 2013 (CST)
- Created and added a Master toggle that shows which sections are open/closed and allows for quick collapsing of the novel sections.
- Added light novel cover illustrations opposite novel content, similar to other Baka-Tsuki Pages.
- Added small 'Back to Contents' links throughout page for those that want them.
- Changed image next to New Testament intro description. (Page Space Saved)
- Place Inactive translators into collapsed-on-load table. (Page Space Saved)
- Place Editors in side by side wikitables (Page Space Saved)
- Placed Series Overview section in Collapsed-on-Load Tables with clickable custom toggles. Novels that have not been completely translated stay outside of the tables. (Page Space Saved)
A character's introduction section idea was thrown out there by me. However, considering the large amount of changes already made to the page in the last month, the idea was quickly withdrawn from this set of edits. The idea may be put out there again when a new anime for the Index franchise is announced; however there is currently no timeframe for this. For those still interested in what a theoretical character introduction section for Toaru Majutsu no Index would look like, head to my user page. It is currently still in beta stage. The above edits have been okayed by supervisor Teh Ping. As of now, the renovation period is over.
Toaru Kagaku no Accelerator begins in the next issue of Dengeki Daioh; NT Volume 9 is released on January 10; Funimation has announced Index II and Movie; the 10th Anniversary of the entire franchise will be on April 10th, 2014.
--OH&S (talk) 22:56, 18 December 2013 (CST)
Volume 11 Notes
Now, not to be rude to Teh_ping or anything since he did so much of the translation work on this series, but volume 11 has several notes on Christianity. I question why these are in the text. I mean at most I would expect them to be translator notes at the bottom, though I wonder if they even belong there as they're notes on well, the bible, rather than anything in the series.
(Teh_ping: For your information, he wasn’t. He was one of the Seventy, not Twelve)
(Teh_ping: for more information, read Genesis 18:16 to 19:29)
(Teh_ping: In Sodom)
(Teh_ping: She got turned into a pillar of salt)
(Teh_ping: Nope, Jesus here did carry the Cross up the hill himself.)
They should be translation notes at the bottom. If anything, editors just haven't gotten around to fixing this volume (in fact, many of the middle volumes haven't seen any real edits in quite a while). As for the fact they're notes on Christianity, it's best to include them. What may or may not be common knowledge doesn't necessarily hold true for people in other parts of the world. --Skies (talk) 03:14, 1 January 2014 (CST)
On this topic, according the synoptic gospel, weren't there someone named Simon of Cyrene who actually helped Jesus carried the cross to the calvary?--126.96.36.199 00:59, 10 February 2014 (CST)
Early Volumes Translation Fixing
As has already been said on my user page, I have begun making edits to Volume 1 as part of a greater project to fix the translations for the Season 1 and 2 light novels. The edits are being made with direct consultation with the series' translator js06. Volumes 1 and 2 will serve as the basis for all critique on my edits. Once everyone is satisifed with the way things look, I will proceed onwards from there. Any feedback regarding the edits should go on my talk page in the relevant section. I only ask editors to wait until I finish a whole volume (volume 1) before giving feedback.--OH&S (talk) 19:38, 6 January 2014 (CST)
Volume 1 Edits are complete. Any feedback should go to my talk page.--OH&S (talk) 03:10, 8 January 2014 (CST)
PDF files not updated
I know there is a generate PDF function, but I don't like the layout it created so I prefer user made ones. But why hasn't anyone updated the files, particularly the old ones ? There are still mistakes from the previous version on Baka-tsuki that have been fixed in the HMTL files, but not in the PDF. 188.8.131.52 10:09, 18 February 2014 (CST)
What mistakes are you talking about? The last modified date of the PDFs was about two and a half weeks ago. There are only nine or so edits that have happened since. -Ultranova17 (talk) 11:43, 18 February 2014 (CST)
My bad. I forgot that the naming issues will be resolved only when OH&S starts his fixing, and when I saw the duplicate paragraph in the afterword of vol. 4, my mind just grouped them together. That duplicate is the only mistake I remember, and if you still keep updating the files, then there's no prob then. And also thank you for your work Ultranova17, I really appreciate it. 184.108.40.206 05:45, 19 February 2014 (CST)