Talk:Toaru Majutsu no Index
- 1 How I enlist ?
- 2 What tense to use?
- 3 Thanks for your work!!
- 4 Consensus: Past or Present?
- 5 Inserting hidden page numbers into the text?
- 6 Thought processes
- 7 british vs american english
- 8 Terminology
- 9 Religion vs Denomination
- 10 nicer navbar
- 11 Index Project Page Renovations
- 12 Volume 11 Notes
- 13 Early Volumes Translation Fixing
- 14 PDF files not updated
- 15 Future of the Index Project
How I enlist ?
I done reading to aru majutsu no index chapter 9. So i want to post it in here. Is it possible? How can I post it anyway? Japanese to Indonesia. japanese to englist. - (Kili)
Well, you could really just post it unless you want specific clearance from the moderators at the project forum. For the Indonesian one, you should make a topic with something along the lines of "To Aru Majutsu no Index - Indonesian" at the Alternative Language Forum for help with setting that up.
If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. -Repose
actuality I already completed translate english. Not so hard to make it to indonesia. but if I done where and how post it ? - (Kili)
The Indonesian version? For that you have to create the Alternate Language Project similar to other Alternate Language Projects with the complete translation of the Project Page (as a naming example: [[To Aru Majutsu no Index ~ Bahasa Indonesia]] (To Aru Majutsu no Index ~ Bahasa Indonesia)), Registration Page, a thread in the Alternate Language Subforum in the Baka-Tsuki Forum and at least one translated Chapter to get the approval to continue the project. --Darklor 23:19, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
it so hard for to made but I will keep trying. I need time to study about it.
am i wrong ?
I've just joined up, and have registered on the TAMNI register page, is that good enough? I can't seem to get into the forum link. --Flere821 09:44, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
Should be just fine, as I assume you'll be translating to English like the other things you've done. I suppose you don't need the forum unless you want to set up a project page up or want to discuss translation terms, but still, not sure why the links don't work for you. --EnigmaticRepose
I've noticed some irregular grammar and English usage on several chapters, do the translators/lead editors for this series mind if I take an axe to these chapters? My English is pretty good, it's just that I may be a bit liberal in changing adjectives or phrasing of words --Asteradragon 11:33, 6 April 2011 (EST)
What tense to use?
So, after reading some chapters of the seventh volume I would like to ask a question. What tense would you use in descriptions? Right now I’m doing some edits on the translated texts but there is always this one thing I’m tripping over. In this volume, and most likely also in the others, we have a third person narrator. In this case you would normally write the descriptions or narrations in the past tense, right? That’s what I would do at least and is commonly done in the most English novels. But as it is, there are some differences in the Asian and the English writing and that includes the used tenses. Because of these differences the translator decided to use the present tense in the above-named cases (most of the time at least). Of course, this isn’t a mistake, but I often feel like it would be one. Perhaps I’m just too used reading the past tense in descriptions but to me, with some exceptions, it often feels awkward when I read some of them in present tense. I would like to get some more opinions on this matter. Is it just me who has this problem or do you think the same as me? AJS90 21 March 2010
I've really just been using present tense for everything, which I based off of how the translators worded it. It's a bit weird for the narrator to do so, but eh, I'm used to it already. ...On a side note, it's nice not being the only editor anymore. ~EnigmaticRepose
Yeah, I've been using present tense for my edits, too- but only because there might be a convention in light novels regarding it that I'm unaware of. Better safe than sorry, you know? I MIGHT try a past-tense sweep edit for second opinions, but only after I'm done with my ongoing ones.--Tactician J 03:13, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for your work!!
Glad to see translated this novel series by Teh_Ping and Joay, thank you very much for working so hard and fast. At this point, I can say that the translators will surpass Index II(by JCStaff) in covering the novels :)
another fan of Teh_Ping and Joay, thank you very much for all of the great work ^^)/
Just wanted to tip my hat to Js06, in recognition of his speed (averages a volume in under 2 weeks) and his grasp of colloquial English. 184.108.40.206 14:34, 23 May 2013 (CDT)
Consensus: Past or Present?
Please Vote poll
With six active translators and three editors, this project needs to come to an agreement regarding tense usage. Do we stick to present tense, or do we shift to past tense?--Tactician J 10:21, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
For me, it's more of past for what just happened and present for what happens during the sequence. I also use a 'present future tense'. Next vote?--Teh Ping 11:21, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
I'm all for present as usual, but as I've said before, I can work with either. I get more attached to present tense stories, anyway. If we do end up agreeing on present tense, we might want to put it somewhere on the main page, and even in commentary tags by the editor list for extra insurance, as odds are potential editors/translators don't check the talk page until someone actually uses it. —EnigmaticRepose
I've only just realised/remembered there's a talk page here ^.^; I'm voting for past tense as that's what I'm used to, and that from what I can gather from the official Chinese translated Index Novels I have on hand right now they use past tense as well. It'll be easier for me to work in past tense. --Flere821 09:16, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
Is it possible for the translators to mark where the pages start and end? That would enable me to look up the original lines more easily, and I'd like to try making some nice-looking PDFs down the road... --Tactician J 14:28, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
I could go through eventually and help with that if I stop being lazy and when the tense issue is resolved. Anyway, I did a small preview of how it would look on parts 9–10 of volume 16's chapter 1. Basically, lines can be cut off randomly in the middle of the sentence (or words for that matter), so don't feel too reliant on the original formatting. Not to mention that every other page has the two titles for the chapter. And out of curiosity, how would you do the illustrations? Some colored ones have three-page-spreads and seeing an illustration after the part it happens in the text just isn't the same as seeing it as you turn the page, so would you use a two-page style, two-pages for just illustrations with the text page, or just one page at a time? —EnigmaticRepose 14:51, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
Text pages get single pages, but two-/three-page illustration spreads will be fused together, more or less. --Tactician J 15:03, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
Just wondering if I am the only one that's slightly uncomfortable with how thoughts are differentiated from the rest of the text in different ways. It seems that the most common methods of indicating thoughts are either in (parenthesis), italics, or (italics and parenthesis). Perhaps we can come to some kind of a standard for this... or is there a difference as to how certain thought processes are? (I don't have access to the Japanese text or cultural knowledge to know...) -Snorca 23:12, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
In the original texts, most thoughts are in parentheses but some also aren't, just like how most spoken dialogue is in quotes but some isn't. English novels also do it (the quoteless dialogues, though thoughts don't have to be emphasized with italics or parentheses), but I think it's more of a slight difference to not feel so abusive with them during dialogue/thought scenes. The italics is just something we started doing (I don't remember why?) and aren't in the original format. I don't think Japanese use italics at all, but they do have a way to emphasize certain parts of a line without just bolding it, though I forget what it's called. If you have any lines in mind that you'd like to me to look up and post as examples, go ahead, though it'll be in Japanese. —EnigmaticRepose
Occassionally some do use bold, but most of the time, most novels use 『』 or 【】 parentheses for emphasis. Italics look intuitive for monologue (and yes the Japanese don't use them). I've used it right from the start in LOLH, because I saw it in Toradora. Some CSR pages I saw use parentheses, but Italics just feel right to me. I've not read enough Index to know how the author presents thoughts. But based on your description, my guess is those in parentheses are First-Person monologue, while those that aren't are narrator-reported thoughts. --Larethian 04:11, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
Wow, never thought they might be monologues. I normally associate monologues with just quotation marks since they're said aloud. Now I'm even more confused as to what to do/how to read, haha. --Snorca 06:00, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
british vs american english
which english should we use: part of the project is in american english and part in british. It's not really that important to me which, but we should probably settle on one or the other. --Saganatsu 20:29, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
british will be better because they don`t use america--Cognitio
Do you mean to say that the story has English characters but no (few?) American characters? That makes some sense.--CarVac 22:16, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
That standard was established before we had multiple projects, and was left in. given that it was written for when we only had one project, should it be up to each project to decide which version? the original line was this:
the current version in place is
- Due to the nature of this website, and the nationality of the majority of Editors and Readers, the standard spelling lexicon for this Wiki will be based upon American English as defined by the Fourth Edition of the American Heritage Dictionary --5:37, 16 March 2007 by Smidge204
which was changed as part of the original update altering the format page from a Haruhi only version to a version for all projects.
also, Smidge204 stopped editing a year before this project was created: here vs here. and thus the format page, in it's current form, would not have considered a project that might have reason to use british english.
As the current text came about due to a change regarding the style of the formatting page, and not as an actual policy decision, and as the party who made the original style decision is no longer on the wiki to ask, I argue that the statement currently on the format page can be overridden by the people working on a particular project, especially if there is reason beyond personal preference, as has been argued above.
thus we come back to the question: which would the contributors prefer for this project? --Saganatsu 14:42, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
Ah stop arguing. As the one responsible for all of these, I'll take the charges (my job anyway, haven't updated the Supervisor tag)
I have already PMed Big Boss regarding this, so if he doesn't have any personal preference regarding this, I will make the decision.--Teh Ping 14:45, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
To quote the PM:
[quote="thelastguardian"]Well, if they are from England, of course they speak British English :p . Seems perfectly logical to me.[/quote]
There you have it. I'm going to introduce a new set of guidelines soon.
I'd let the England-based characters speak British English, but what about the narration? --Tactician J 15:03, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
Honestly, I don't like the idea of switching languages here and there so easily, feels weird to me because it's like the characters are in a different realm from the readers.--Teh Ping 15:57, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
In Volume 14 Chapter 3 Part 4, Tatemiya Saiji is referred to as "Substitute Pope". He was previously referred to in Volumes 7 and 11 as "substitute Supreme Pontiff" (likewise, Kanzaki Kaori is referred to as "Supreme Pontiff"). If the Japanese writing for these terms is the same in each instance, then it would be best to pick a standard translation and use that.
--Stiyl 05:31, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
Edit: Also "Acqua of the Back" (Volume 14 Epilogue) versus "Acqua of the Rear".
--Stiyl 06:21, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
It's Supreme Pontiff and Acqua of the Back, according to the TamnI wiki. We follow their spellings and terminology, as far as I know. --Saganatsu 06:37, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
Ah, alright then. I've been avoiding looking at the wiki because every time I look at it, I accidentally read another spoiler.
--Stiyl 04:13, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Religion vs Denomination
I've seen it multiple times through the series, and the following stood out the most: "The three largest religions of Christianity have finally joined forces." Technically, the only Religion at play here is Christianity, The Anglican Church, The Roman Catholic Church and The Russian Orthodox Church are all denominations of Christianity, not religions of Christianity (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_denomination) --Draringi 15:47, 4 July 2011 (UCT)
"The three largest factions of Christianity have finally joined forces." Better? Kokonice 16:28, 4 July 2011 (UCT)
That is correct. For me, I put it as 'sect' to make it as unrealistic though.
My vicar's going to give me one long sermon if he finds out that the 'model student' is actually doing this series...--Teh Ping 16:41, 4 July 2011 (UCT)
@Kokonice: I was thinking "The three largest denominations of Christianity have finally joined forces.", but anything other than religion is an improvement --Draringi 01:23, 6 July 2011 (UCT)
Zero2001 was nice and fixed the mess I made into this great navbar:
Shall we use this? I can't see any downsides.--Saganatsu 07:31, 17 August 2011 (CDT)
Other than it looking like a wikipedia Navbar (with all the additional navs, I have no problems with it, go for it then.--Teh Ping 07:36, 17 August 2011 (CDT)
How should we add the official parody to the nav bar? in with side stories? under it's own section? a subsection of sidestories? just keep it left out? --Saganatsu (talk) 22:38, 26 February 2013 (CST)
Index Project Page Renovations
This is not really an update but more of a summary of the recent changes that have been made to the Index Main Page.
- Modified opening paragraph to better reflect the current standing of the series in regards to franchise material and recent awards. Extra information has been hidden in a collapsed-on-load table. (Page Space Saved)
- Greatly expanded Awards section with past and recent Kono LN ga Sugoi! Rankings
- Placed Awards for different years in collapsed-on-load tables with clickable custom toggles to open/close years. (Page Space Saved)
- Placed great portion of the list of updates into a collapsed-on-load table with clickable custom toggles titled 'Older Updates.'
Due to compatability isses with the Firefox Browser, the Updates Section Collapsing table itself shouldn't be placed in div tags.Update: Section is now placed in div tags after site was updated--OH&S (talk) 20:10, 14 January 2014 (CST)
- Split the novel sections into different sub-sections with First Series headings suggested by Teh Ping. Each sub-section is a collapsible table with clickable custom toggles. (Page Space Saved when collapsed)
- Novel Sections collapsible tables are open-on-load due to some readers using the Table of Contents (ToC) to navigate. ToC links do not work unless collapsible table is open.
- ToC does NOT reflect the new subsections as a formatting issue leads to the BakaReader EX App not functioning properly for the Index novels. Problems that occurred when this was being tested should not be happening anymore.Small Update: BakaReader EX seems to have updated the App to handle the previous layout of the ToC. But I am fine with things as they are right now.--OH&S (talk) 19:28, 25 December 2013 (CST)
- Created and added a Master toggle that shows which sections are open/closed and allows for quick collapsing of the novel sections.
- Added light novel cover illustrations opposite novel content, similar to other Baka-Tsuki Pages.
- Added small 'Back to Contents' links throughout page for those that want them.
- Changed image next to New Testament intro description. (Page Space Saved)
- Place Inactive translators into collapsed-on-load table. (Page Space Saved)
- Place Editors in side by side wikitables (Page Space Saved)
- Placed Series Overview section in Collapsed-on-Load Tables with clickable custom toggles. Novels that have not been completely translated stay outside of the tables. (Page Space Saved)
A character's introduction section idea was thrown out there by me. However, considering the large amount of changes already made to the page in the last month, the idea was quickly withdrawn from this set of edits. The idea may be put out there again when a new anime for the Index franchise is announced; however there is currently no timeframe for this. For those still interested in what a theoretical character introduction section for Toaru Majutsu no Index would look like, head to my user page. It is currently still in beta stage. The above edits have been okayed by supervisor Teh Ping. As of now, the renovation period is over.
Toaru Kagaku no Accelerator begins in the next issue of Dengeki Daioh; NT Volume 9 is released on January 10; Funimation has announced Index II and Movie; the 10th Anniversary of the entire franchise will be on April 10th, 2014.
--OH&S (talk) 22:56, 18 December 2013 (CST)
Volume 11 Notes
Now, not to be rude to Teh_ping or anything since he did so much of the translation work on this series, but volume 11 has several notes on Christianity. I question why these are in the text. I mean at most I would expect them to be translator notes at the bottom, though I wonder if they even belong there as they're notes on well, the bible, rather than anything in the series.
(Teh_ping: For your information, he wasn’t. He was one of the Seventy, not Twelve)
(Teh_ping: for more information, read Genesis 18:16 to 19:29)
(Teh_ping: In Sodom)
(Teh_ping: She got turned into a pillar of salt)
(Teh_ping: Nope, Jesus here did carry the Cross up the hill himself.)
They should be translation notes at the bottom. If anything, editors just haven't gotten around to fixing this volume (in fact, many of the middle volumes haven't seen any real edits in quite a while). As for the fact they're notes on Christianity, it's best to include them. What may or may not be common knowledge doesn't necessarily hold true for people in other parts of the world. --Skies (talk) 03:14, 1 January 2014 (CST)
On this topic, according the synoptic gospel, weren't there someone named Simon of Cyrene who actually helped Jesus carried the cross to the calvary?--220.127.116.11 00:59, 10 February 2014 (CST)
Early Volumes Translation Fixing
As has already been said on my user page, I have begun making edits to Volume 1 as part of a greater project to fix the translations for the Season 1 and 2 light novels. The edits are being made with direct consultation with the series' translator js06. Volumes 1 and 2 will serve as the basis for all critique on my edits. Once everyone is satisifed with the way things look, I will proceed onwards from there. Any feedback regarding the edits should go on my talk page in the relevant section. I only ask editors to wait until I finish a whole volume (volume 1) before giving feedback.--OH&S (talk) 19:38, 6 January 2014 (CST)
Volume 1 Edits are complete. Any feedback should go to my talk page.--OH&S (talk) 03:10, 8 January 2014 (CST)
PDF files not updated
I know there is a generate PDF function, but I don't like the layout it created so I prefer user made ones. But why hasn't anyone updated the files, particularly the old ones ? There are still mistakes from the previous version on Baka-tsuki that have been fixed in the HMTL files, but not in the PDF. 18.104.22.168 10:09, 18 February 2014 (CST)
What mistakes are you talking about? The last modified date of the PDFs was about two and a half weeks ago. There are only nine or so edits that have happened since. -Ultranova17 (talk) 11:43, 18 February 2014 (CST)
My bad. I forgot that the naming issues will be resolved only when OH&S starts his fixing, and when I saw the duplicate paragraph in the afterword of vol. 4, my mind just grouped them together. That duplicate is the only mistake I remember, and if you still keep updating the files, then there's no prob then. And also thank you for your work Ultranova17, I really appreciate it. 22.214.171.124 05:45, 19 February 2014 (CST)
Future of the Index ProjectYen Press have acquired licenses for the A Certain Magical Index light novels. The first novel is due for release under its Yen-On label sometime this Winter.
In normal situations, when a light novel series is licensed, Baka-Tsuki staff remove the text from their site and declare the project abandoned.
Due to Toaru Majutsu no Index being in a unique situation in regards to project size, structure and rate of new novels released, the deletion process will be different.
As mentioned in Teh Ping's announcement in the BT forums, the Side Stories, Parodies and New Testament Series will be kept on Baka-Tsuki.
However, starting from September, one volume of Index will be deleted per month. After Volume 4 is deleted in December, the process will be reviewed by BT staff.
Due to this, some things will need to be modified:
- The links to the volume's chapters will become plain text upon deletion of the volume; however, I hope to keep the illustrations.
- Site will link to Yen-On's official A Certain Magical Index website when said site becomes available.
- The Navbar Template will need to be modified to reflect the deletion of the translated text, while keeping the Illustrations links and chapter names.
- The Series Overview will now include the release dates for the English Novels, whenever that information is revealed.
Comments, remarks or suggestions regarding the future of the Index Project should be discussed here.--OH&S (talk) 23:16, 21 April 2014 (CDT)
Glad the translations for the new novels can go unimpeded for at least the next few years. Index is, after all, BT's flagship translation project. --Skies (talk) 13:55, 22 April 2014 (CDT)
i guess the best solution is for the whole bakatsuki to relocate to foreign web host, even though i dont exactly know how easy or feasible we have seen the fate of many project taken by many publisher other than yen press, like hidan no aria, kino no tabi that abandoned just after 1 or 2 volume after they think its "unprofitable" but they keep clinging to the corpse...maybe someone can enlighten about this matter...
So, guys. Whatever you're angry at, don't pull B-T into some mess. You're putting us between a hammer and hard place. I deleted some rather brazen comments and insinuations. If you want to propose something, go ahead. We'll explain what's feasible and what's not but stop horsing around. --Rock96 (talk) 12:26, 23 April 2014 (CDT)