Talk:Hidan no Aria Archived

Translation

Hey I've been editing lately. I've found Kinji's last name spelled Tohyama and Tooyama, we should keep his name uniform at least. I'm gonna change them all to Tohyama, Tooyama is awkward for me for some reason. -blackfaia

nice novel, with a monthly manga and a coming anime

I wanted to compliment the translators on the speed and quality of their translation. You guys are dropping these volumes one by one, thank for your hard work.

WHERE ARE THE TRANSLATORS XD WHY WON'T THEY REPLY! WHY WONT THEY LET ME TRANSLATE >_<!!! --Seoulfighter 08:40, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Why not just continue translating until they reply?

start translating from ch 3 so you are sure you won't translate the same thing^^

Mr. Seoulfighter, please lend us your godly powers and translate this LN, thank you very much ~Ghost

Fine I'll start picking this up soon since I've received no contact from the other translators, and realized it's never been updated. but right now I have to find a job to help pay for college -.-... my dad wasted my tuition on my stepmother... WASTED 35,000$ on her jewelry and clothes(tears)! --Seoulfighter 02:43, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

That's sad. Sometimes I wonder how parents can be this cruel and selfish... --Darklor 20:31, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

If this happened to me, I'd give those parents of mine a MASSIVE chewing out. I mean seriously, WTF? Well, good luck to you though Seoulfighter.

you have my sympathy Seoulfighter-san. Your tuition fee must be the top priority because it is the job of the parents to make sure their children graduate from school... Thanks again ~ Ghost

don't worry abouts TL and think about yourself, Real Life has top priority^^(even if this will make us a little sad)

I got contacted by the original translator, and Undying told me that his hard drive got wiped so he won't be working on this project. I guess for now, while I wait for a reply from the places I applied to I'll do some translating.

As for my parents if I tried to chew them out my dad would start a Socratic Seminar about how my line of logic is flawed and his is correct this lasts for 3 HOURS and can go up to 6 if I argue... my mom is poor, and my dad sold my car(My dad had 3 cars one of which he had originally planned on giving to me.) and gave that money to my sister. --Seoulfighter 18:52, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Your mom is poor? Step-mom or real mom?

My Real mom who has a job... and my step-mom who is leeching off my father... both are poor. - seoulfighter

I get the feeling that you don't really like your stepmom...

children suffered because of their irresponsible parents.... Hang-on seoulfighter ~ Ghost

Your dad doesnt like you (anymore)? You haven't made him angry, did you? --Darklor 20:54, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

lol No my dad never said he doesn't like me. He says he loves me like all his children =.=... which is meaningless considering all of us were kicked out to accommodate my stepmother... As for what I did to piss him off. He asked me during college to be a dog that just studies and stay in my room, and listen to every command he gives me =.=. What would YOU do if your parents said those words to you... Then said they only have your best interest in mind... --Seoulfighter 06:44, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Not all parents' words are correct, they are also human who commit mistakes. Have you talked about how you feel with your father? Maybe you and your father misunderstood each other. Misunderstanding might cause great conflict on the future. ~ Ghost

I have talked to him sat down face to face and tried to sort it out. The only thing that ended up happening is that he said I'm being illogical. He said he couldn't understand why I can't just listen to everything he says and have faith that every decision he's making for me is the best for me =.=. I'll start translating some more to blow off some steam >_<! --Seoulfighter 21:05, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

wow... just finished reading the last chapter of volume one... I must say... chapter 5 is basically as long as the first 4 chapters combined... I'll refrain from giving spoilers but that was really an unexpected twist that I should have seen coming...

its almost a month or more since the last update..... any news? This and <sword art online> made me craving for more LOL ~ghost

Last time I checked, Spadey was approximately 42% done. Expect chapter 5 to be completed at least by the end of this month, if not the next. --Asian InvAsian 05:07, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

If you want, I can give you some spoilers on both this and SAO --Eveonder 05:20, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

ow thanks for the update! and about the spoiler... thanks but I will wait for the complete chapter ^^ --Ghost

did he used the word dog?REAlly? wow i know who is in the (hell)list--Cognitio

Here i go again and asking for the status LOL --Ghost 10:35 , 15 October 2010 (GMT + 8:00)

Since the manga release at snail pace....I am waiting for the last chapter here... xenocross

If you want an update, I'd suggest you look in here -> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=2527&start=75 --Asian InvAsian 02:31, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

If you want an update, I'd suggest you look in here -> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=2527&start=75 --Asian InvAsian 02:31, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Summary of previous discussion: Translator is trying to go to school. Has problems. Will gambatte. Our heartfelt approval. --Novium 20:28, 21 March 2011 (EDT)

--I don't know how else to contact translators of this series, so I'll post here. Seeing as the anime adaption is coming out in around a week, I'm guessing there will be a lot more views of this series. As such, I wouldn't mind if the translators spit out a roughly translated version of the next few volumes, I have 2+ hours a day I can spend fixing up English, I can probably revise a chapter a day if need be. --Asteradragon 8:52, 6 March 2011 (EST)

--Speed translating is an insult to the craft. - YoakeNoHikari 21:55, 10 April 2011 (UCT)

Only if it's done horribly. Zero2001 21:01, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

The anime is out now.. thats what brought me here. If you do decide to do a fast translation I would like to add that I can also edit anything you put out. -blackfaia

The Anime

The Anime is starting today or tomorrow, does anyone have some hope for it? --Darn2k 12:40, 14 April 2011 (UCT)

Slightly disappointing, but they do have to condense a lot of things in anime, so I'm not going to be too critical - YoakeNoHikari 18:13, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

I can't say I disagree, but so far it doesn't look to bad. Though I have to admit I don't think Aria's voice is quite right, it just feels slightly wrong.--Darn2k 18:28, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

A bit too cutesy for my taste, but that's Kugyuu for you - YoakeNoHikari 19:07, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

But the seiyu voice fits. I did think Aria's mannerisms were a lot similar to Louise from Zero no Tsukaima, but they went even further and added a dash of Nagi from Hayate no Gotoku, Aria's voice could not be in better hands since Kugimiya-san did both. Zero2001 21:07, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

I don't know, it just seemed a bit too "squeeky" or a little too grating to fit with the character, at least that is what I think from reading the first 3 books.--Darn2k 21:42, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

そうだった。She's described as having a Seiyuu like voice, so they can't go wrong there. XD However, I did think her voice would be slightly lower, possibly a more Shana-like tone. Anyways, do you guys like the OP/ED - YoakeNoHikari 22:00, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

My Opinions: OP = 3.5/5 , ED 2/5. Some parts of the OP sounded similar to Asura Cryin's OP (to me at least), loved that one. Fav. part from ep 1 (+ -)"Aaaa, Watashi no magazine!!!". BTW how far do you think the anime will cover the story? Zero2001 04:01, 17 April 2011 (UCT)

Picture Positioning

I'd like to discuss and debate about the picture positioning in the light novel chapter parts. Currently the pictures are being placed in such an order as to mimic the light novel position. (ie: text page ends picture page begins). However I believe that this is problematic to be used here because in reading a light novel one can see the picture page as well as the text page side by side when they open onto that page thus allowing easy comparison between the line and it's corresponding picture. But here, due to the layout being continuous it does not allow the corresponding to occur so smoothly. Instead the reader passes the line that the picture corresponds to and finds the image 10 to 20 lines below that right next to text lines that have either little or absolutely no relation to the picture at all. I acknowledge the argument that this is how the author wished it to be, however I wish to make a point that this was because of the very basic format of all books. No matter what page you open to, unless you fold one side to the back there will always be two pages before you. So I have two ideas to give here:

1. Match the pictures' locations to the text lines most suited for them.
2. Mark the end of each page with a ---- to insert a line signifying the end of a novel page(like demonstrated below) and making the pictures bigger so they may seem page sized as well.

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3. Make no changes and let the text and pictures remain unmatched.

Wow that's three. LOL. Personally, I believe the first idea is the best even if it does go against the original ordering. Does anyone have any objections and explanations as to why? Zero2001 22:52, 26 April 2011 (UCT)

I'll go with the first option. Initially, I thought that the picture placement was just some kind or bug or error or something. It didn't really occur to me that that was intentional. ;) Anyway, it will help the reader identify the scene and image better, since the picture is placed beside or near the accompanying text. My ignorance is showing, sorry about that. Anyway, I read (or looked at a page, trying to find a word I know) the source and the images are pretty much around where they are here, the only difference being the format (page-to-page vs continuous). Cross-referenced other series (specifically ZnT) and the editing is the same. So even though it's not spot on, it is how the page is intended w/ the only difference being format. So I guess, 3rd option? s13 16:05, 27 April 2011 (UCT)

I'm not putting the pictures anywhere else. Each author chooses where to put their pictures for a very specific reason. If you think it doesn't correspond well, then minimize a picture of the photo and read it side by side.- YoakeNoHikari 15:34, 27 April 2011 (UCT)

The OP is not incorrect that you can see the pictures side by side when you're reading it, but I prefer to just put it in at the end of the page, because, well...that's just how I see it. Putting it at the beginning would not necessarily be incorrect, but it's nice to read something before you look at the picture for it, which is the author's intent. - YoakeNoHikari 17:09, 27 April 2011 (UCT)

What you are saying is partly true. But only in cases where the picture relating to the text is on the backside of the related text page. When it is on the page on the side it is obviously there so that the picture and the text could be easily referenced. Even here because of the picture's size it can be made to look as though it is right next to the page. That is what I believe the author's original intention is. I'm not wrong am I? Zero2001 17:16, 27 April 2011 (UCT)

Rather I would say that because of the transition from side-by-side to continuous format the resulting positions of the pictures are something the author had not originally wanted, wouldn't you agree? As such shouldn't we choose from point 1 or 2 and not 3 regardless of how it's being done in the other light novels pages? Isn't it only correct that we do this? Zero2001 19:12, 27 April 2011 (UCT)

Finally from what you have been saying, it seems that you want the format to be as follows:

text page1
picture page2
text page3

but instead it's actually like this:

text page1
text page3 picture page2

Note: Point 1 would make it like this:

text page1 picture page2
text page3

whereas Point 2 would show it like this:

text page1

---

picture page2

---

text page3

So which format would you prefer. According to this, even the current format is actually against the original author's wishes, isn't it? Zero2001 12:43, 28 April 2011 (UCT)

give it a few days before concluding that people are not answering. some of us are busy people in RL. besides, not everyone watches the pages, or are able to sift through the flood of "recent changes" to find their object of interest. bring it to the forums in that case. begging your pardon, as a translator, I think this is so trivial that I won't even waste time debating or discussing it. discussing stuff like terminologies such as the butei articles is more constructive than a few image placements, and there are very few indeed; begging your pardon again. if you really want to, you can set up a poll in the forums, but that would only make sense if a lot of people are actually concerned with this topic of interest. whatever the case, the supervisor (or translators) makes the final decision. on a side note, given that this is relatively popular project, nobody posting means no one cares about this? and sorry for my typing because I hate caps hahaha :3 --Larethian 13:17, 28 April 2011 (UCT)

No problem. I do understand and it was my intention to wait. Plus the purpose of this topic is to persuade the editors and as stated in my previous post (see hidden text) the comment was just for motivation and I apologized to those who would take it the wrong way, finally I didn't actually say anything wrong, only laughed (evilly yes but only laughed), LOL. Besides, if my intention was not to persuade through discussion and debating the issue I wouldn't have started this in the first place. Trivial, it might be on face, but I still think it is worth discussing because of it's deeper implications. Plus if nobody cares doesn't that mean that any format is applicable? I think that is wrong, which is why I wish to confirm others views on this. Zero2001 13:46, 28 April 2011 (UCT)

I didn't say that you are saying something wrong. It's just my opinion that it's a trivial thing, just as it's in your opinion that it's important. Different opinions that's all. No right or wrong. --Larethian 14:06, 28 April 2011 (UCT)

True. Zero2001 18:49, 28 April 2011 (UCT)

Yes indeed. Going over the previous posts I see that this is indeed a difference in opinion. Clarity is indeed needed. My opinion is that of a single reader, what's yours? Oh and we might need other readers' opinions as well, after all I am not the only one or a representative of all the readers. No, not at all. Thus more input from both sides would be appreciated. Zero2001 21:42, 28 April 2011 (UCT)

Hmm... I wouldnt see any reason to do it different as it is done in the other translations... - aka text page / picture page / text page, but if you like you could put the corresponding line also under the picture (like it was done for Haruhi) to get a matching effect... --Darklor 01:08, 29 April 2011 (UCT)

Yeah that is being done here and there. But it still feels weird to scroll down a whole screen or two just to get to the picture that matches the text, especially when in the book the text-picture pages are side-by-side '(See the layout example a few posts back for details). (After checking) See, the picture's still side-by-side even here, just with the wrong text page, so to speak. I'm proposing we correct that. The journey of a 1000 miles starts with the first step but if we don't take the first step how will the journey begin? So why not take the first step when the result is an improvement? If it's a problem of time consumption while revising previous chapters then can't you let me take care of that detail. That way the translators won't have to stop their work. I can do it all within a few hours, albeit a bit roughly in the cases where the picture does not have labels. But even so. It's actually better than setting it next to the wrong page start. As said before I believe setting the picture, next to the page, after the one it is meant for (ie:

page1: text
page3: text | page2: picture

) is not how the author wished it, though this is just my view as a reader. But it does hold some water, no? We could even switch the ordering around to make it even closer to the original format like so:

page2: picture | page1: text
page3: text

What do you think? Oh and the offer, of me doing it if translators too busy translating, still stands. Zero2001 01:50, 29 April 2011 (UCT)

My opinion: remove the stupid text under the pictures and "Match the pictures' locations to the text lines most suited for them."

That's how I do it for every series Vaelis 07:53, 29 April 2011 (UCT)

I'm not too busy translating, I'm too busy reading other things. Just because I translate this fanatically doesn't mean I don't have a mountain of other things to read/watch. As it stands, I'm practicing my Japanese by reading Mayo Chiki!, which is kind of a weird order, but that's irrelevant.

My opinion: I don't care enough to argue about it. If you're so horribly against putting it down there, then change it, but as I translate, I'm going to keep doing it the way it is currently. If you want to change it, then just do so after I put it in. - YoakeNoHikari 18:09, 2 May 2011 (UCT)

That's fine with me. So to confirm, I can set the picture next to the related text while revising and there won't be an edit war over it, right? Cause that's really scary. This one time... Oh well that's... well, forget that. Anyway, I have permission to match text with pictures while revising, right? Zero2001 22:36, 2 May 2011 (UCT)

Well, can I? Can I? Can I? Pleeeease? (Hoppity, hoppity, hop) Zero2001 18:42, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

At this point, I couldn't care less. If such a trivial thing irks you so badly, then by all means, go ahead and change it. I certainly won't be wasting time and effort to change it back. - YoakeNoHikari 19:05, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

Thank you! (Nyari) Zero2001 19:14, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

Fuuma's speech to be changed

I would like to change all of Fuumas "I" to "Oneself"/"myself" or "this one". Anything along those lines represent the "Sessha" she uses to refer to herself. I would like opinions on this matter, for while "Myself/oneself" is my favorite, it should be the most easily-read one that prevails.

--Novium 22:59, 2 May 2011 (UCT)

http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=2527&p=82653#p82653

Forum backlink.

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An example would make things more clear. Though personally I think it a pretty good idea. It does conform to the ancient/honorable/humble manner of speaking. Zero2001 18:46, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

*Facepalm*. You know what, let's just change all of Patra's "I"s to "My Majesty". Also, "Myself hasn't been able to meet with you for a while," "Oneself hasn't been able to meet with you for a while," "Me myself hasn't been able to meet with you for a while," "This unworthy one hasn't been able to meet with you for a while."

I'm not budging. This is not open to discussion. How does a servant refer to himself in front of his lord in English? "Your lord master, your servant hasn't grown enough crops this year."?. That's what somebody says when they speak to God. - YoakeNoHikari 19:02, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

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Yoake also has a point. But check this page out as well. It might help. Illeism. Just keeping an open mind here. I mean fansubbing translators usually do try and keep the Japanese manner of speech in their work rather than completely going English. The exotic manner is rather appealing. Just a thought though. Zero2001 19:08, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

I have an idea of how to completely retain the meaning. I write warawa or sessha and then link to the wikipedia page. That sound good? - YoakeNoHikari 19:28, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

That is also a good idea. AH! Found it! This link would be better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_pronouns. For Archaic references like sessha appending #Archaic_personal_pronouns would help (subsection link) Zero2001 19:36, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

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I was actually joking because that's amazingly retarded and nobody really cares enough, but, whatever floats your boat. Good luck fitting warawa in when I used me rather than I to refer to her. - YoakeNoHikari 19:38, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

Yeah, I'm being rude on purpose. I feel that the English language has no way of showing how bad of an idea I think this is if I don't resort to vulgarity. Rather, 'better; is a comparative phrase, and since I never actually mentioned a noun to which to compare to, a better word would be 'good'. At any rate, これは全然ひどい、全然無意味、全然迷惑なことって絶対変わらず。 - YoakeNoHikari 19:47, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

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I see. But you also do have a point. Not everyone would be able to understand right off the bat that way. Oh well. By the way they actually did used to say "My liege, your servant requests permission to withdraw." or "Your servant would like to beg forgiveness for his tardiness." Rankings in the Royal court did actually effect the manner of speech greatly. Zero2001 19:54, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Don't make Fuuma say 'your student'. Please. Please. Please. Please. Fansubbers can translate how they want, the seas could boil and the Earth would crack, but don't make a ninja call herself 'your student' in front of Kinji. There's an t/l note already, can we let it go? I'll make a concession and expand on it as well as adding a link.- YoakeNoHikari 20:03, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

Naze nara... kore wa zenzen hidoi, zenzen muimi, zenzen meiwaku na koto ka? LOL. Jodan desu. Yes explaining in more detail in the Translation Notes and References pages is also another good idea/option. Actually I think it is the best one yet. Zero2001 20:10, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

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There is one short reference. But seriously Yoake, please consider what I am proposing seriously. I'd like to stress that I am not attacking your translations here; I'm giving an opionion, not demanding word-by-word translations. If this insults you, I apologize for not putting it in kinder words. But I won't have you being rude without properly hearing me out. It is demeaning.

Now, back to the matter itself:

There are archaic english that would properly convey the nuance of her speech; and I belive it would be worth the effort to try getting it across. Now, I don't want to be harsly spoken, and I respect you work Yoake - In fact I really enjoy it. I just think we should be able to work something out to make it more along the authors intentions.I myself am not a native speaker, but I can see how:

"Oneself hasn't been able to meet with you for a while," should be written as "One has not been able to meet Instuctor for a while", reflecting the inpersonal part of sessha, and the second-part reference to oneself. Hasn't and the like are actually a good idea in my opinion, but they can be written to make a point of reflecting speech-patterns instead of as a rule. As for Patra, aren't a royal "We" sufficient to reflect her nature coupled with a notice in the text?

In fact, most light novels translations fail on this part and I think everyone here could try to figure something out together instead of bashing the notion. Is that too much to ask for from a free wiki? I sure don't think so.

Is this insufficient? I think that we should be able to see merit in this proposal.

With respect / --Novium 00:07, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

Well done, great explanation. Strong points. What do you think Yoake? There is some weight in the arguments is there not? Indeed such ways of speaking have been used in ancient literature as well as medieval times. And yes, in English the use of the words "We" and "Us" are plural forms however they were used by royals to refer to themselves (them being the leader/representative of their people probably brought on that effect). The use of plural form is regarded as a sign of great respect in many languages. That is a hard fact. Humility also meant referring to oneself in the third-person. The arguments are indeed sound. Are they not? Zero2001 00:27, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

A famous example of the use of "One" and "Oneself" for self referral is the character of Andrew Martin in the film Bicentennial Man. It chronicles the story of a robot and his journey into humanity. Before being ordered by his master to use "I" Andrew referred to himself as "one" or "oneself" as originally programmed to do so. It's a wonderful and beautiful story, you guys should try seeing it sometime. Zero2001 02:35, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

No.

Third person referral has a completely different meaning in Japanese. Since there is no equivalent for one, third person referral through using their names such as Riko saying "Riko" instead of I is a very feminine style of speech. As such, I'm not willing to use any third person. Go look at the forum. - YoakeNoHikari 07:00, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

I've read the forum posts. Now I understand why "One" or "Oneself" is not used here for "Sessha". It might be equivalent in some respects but not exactly. I see. I learned something new. Zero2001 13:50, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

I can agree with the royal "we". That's it. = YoakeNoHikari 15:14, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

See, discussions can actually help improve oneself if you see them in a certain way. Zero2001 16:10, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

Question about Translation Notes

Why are the translation notes and references on a separate page when they can be even more easily shown as a list at the bottom of each chapter via use of the ref tag? It's so bothersome to have to either navigate to a new page or open it in a new tab or window just to see a small note. Using the reference tag allows for in-page navigation (ie: new page doesn't need time to load, screen just zeros in on the reference or back to text without page loading). So why? Zero2001 11:48, 22 May 2011 (UCT)

Well its even more bothersome if you have to look up these references yourself. HnA is a light novel that has a substantial number of references and allusions to famous people, furthermore it is up to the translators creed. Also how is it that difficult to click on translation notes that simply opens a new page? Unless the readers are just being lazy. This really seems like a trivial matter to me. -Hiro Hayase 16:47, 23, May 2011 (UCT)

Yeah well. Readers are lazing around, according to the elderly. LOL. But seriously, as a reader I would prefer having the translation notes at the bottom of the page rather than opening a new page. It might be lazy but it is faster in loading/navigation. If it's a problem of too much trouble I'd be happy to do it for you guys. I just think making a whole new/separate page for those notes is wasteful. "A new page + data" takes more space than simply "data at the bottom of an already existing page". Zero2001 21:36, 23 May 2011 (UCT)

Well, it might be useful when you transform it unto a PDF format. Speaking of PDF, can someone go edit V2? きら 23:06, 23 May 2011 (UCT)

I can edit HnA volume 2 since I have nothing else to do atm Kira0802. Here's my opinion as a reader: just leave it as it is, this is such a trivial matter. If the reader wants such high-quality material, then they could learn the language and simply buy the light novels. Also, note that some translators do not bother making said these references at all, whether its the translation notes or foot notes at the bottom. -Hiro Hayase 00:10, 24, May 2011 (UCT)