Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi:Volume1 Chapter7

References & Translators Notes

Heno-ji

So what's a heno-ji, I hear you ask...? It's a children's drawing, full name へのへのもへじ (henohenomoheji) made with those hiragana characters, to form a figure of a human face. Have a look at this Wikipedia page, which shows how it's made.

--Freak Of Nature 08:02, 5 May 2006 (PDT) (made into a more formal note by BlckKnght 21:08, 7 May 2006 (PDT))

Camellia

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camellia

Camellia (Tsubaki in Japanese) is a genus of flowering plants in the family Theaceae, native to eastern and southern Asia from the Himalaya east to Japan and Indonesia. [...]

They are evergreen shrubs and small trees from 2–20 m tall. The leaves are alternately arranged, simple, thick, serrated, usually glossy, and 3–17 cm long. The flowers are large and conspicuous, 1–12 cm diameter, with (in natural conditions) 5–9 petals; colour varies from white to pink and red, and yellow in a few species. [...]

Camellia sinensis is of major commercial importance because tea is made from its leaves. [...]

Many other camellias are grown as ornamental plants for their flowers. [...] Camellia japonica (often simply called Camellia) is the most prominent species in cultivation, with over 2,000 named cultivars. [...] They are highly valued in Japan and elsewhere for their very early flowering, often among the first flowers to appear in the late winter.

See the linked article for photographs of Camellia blossoms.

--BlckKnght 20:46, 7 May 2006 (PDT)

Absolute Zero

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_zero

Absolute zero is a fundamental lower bound on the temperature of any macroscopic system. It is a temperature of 0 K, −273.15°C, or −459.67°F. It is unachievable in practice but it exists as a limit for real physical phenomena, and it was inferred by extrapolation from kinetic theory, and from other considerations in theoretical physics.

--The naming game 19:00, 4 May 2006 (PDT)

Nanpa

The practice of standing in the street and picking up girls, mostly common with younger people (high school and early college age). Men who do this all the time are called by the same term, and are sometimes considered somewhat weird.

--Kumarei 21:38, 8 May 2006 (EST)

Editors' Notes

Classroom scene - Where Haruhi is asking Kyon about Mikuru's next costume

I feel that the 2rd last sentence of that section:

While fanning her with my book, she yelled, "I'm so bored!"

Is a bit ambiguous - Is Kyon fanning her with his book, or did Haruhi fan herself with Kyon's book? Kyon refusing to fan her a few lines earlier seems add to the confusion.

---

Well... I don't feel it is ambiguous at all (if she were fanning herself, it would be worded "while fanning herself with my book...") --Proto

Well, Kyon did say he refused, but probably decided to fan Haruhi anyway seeing how depressed she is.

--Kinny Riddle

---

Here's Kinny's translation from Chinese:

"You look like an idiot."

Haruhi scolded. Hey, weren't you the one changing the subject? But I guess I really did look like an idiot, so I didn't argue with her. While fanning her with my book, she yelled,

"I'm so bored!"

She drooped downwards like a cartoon character.

The whole passage, in the original Japanese, is:

「マヌケ面」

と決めつけた。お前が話を振ったんだろうが。多分その通りだろうから抗議するつもりはないが。セーラー服の胸元から教科書で風を送り込みながら、

「ほんと、退屈」

ハルヒは口を見事なへの字にした。　まるでマンガのキャラクターみたいな。

Which reads as follow in romaji:

"manukedzura"

to kimetsuketa. omae ga hanashi o futtandarou ka. tabun sono toori darou kara kougi suru tsumori wa nai ga. seiraafuku no munamoto kara kyoukasho de kaze o okurikominagara,

"honto, taikutsu"

Haruhi wa kuchi o migoto na heno-ji ni shita. maru de manga no kyarakutaa mitai na.

I make this out as:

"You look like an idiot."

Haruhi decided. Hey, weren't you the one changing the subject? But I guess she was right, so there was no point arguing with her. While fanning the breast of her school uniform with a textbook,

"I'm so bored!"

Haruhi's mouth was perfectly like a heno-ji. She looked like a cartoon character.

So what's a heno-ji, I hear you ask...? It's a children's drawing, full name へのへのもへじ (henohenomoheji) made with those hiragana characters, to form a figure of a human face. Have a look at this Wikipedia page, which shows how it's made.

I've edited the text to reflect this.

--Freak Of Nature 08:02, 5 May 2006 (PDT)

I just made some pretty broad edits to this section, trying to make it flow better in English. The paragraphs above now go:

Haruhi seemed to guess what I was thinking and scowled at me. She then lightly flipped her hair behind her ears.

"You look like an idiot," Haruhi decided.

Hey, weren't you the one bringing up the subject? But perhaps she was right, so there's no point in arguing with her.

While fanning the neck of her uniform with a textbook, she blurts out, "I'm so bored!"

Haruhi's mouth was perfectly like a heno-ji. She looked like a comic book character.

Most of the changes are pretty small, but put together I think they make things much more readable. I'm not crazy about adding in "she said" to the line just before "I'm so bored", but without it I could not think of a way to make the two parts fit together. Please be bold in editing, if you think you can further improve things.

--BlckKnght 22:59, 7 May 2006 (PDT)

Chapter 7: "Points I'd like to raise"

I finished my first read-through of the completed Chapter 7 and there're numerous points I'd like to raise (whilst I edit some of them):

• Haruhi decided. Hey, weren't you the one changing the subject? But I guess she was right, so there was no point arguing with her. While fanning the breast of her school uniform with a textbook,

w.r.t. (with respect to) the text above in bold, I'm not too sure whether I agree with the sentence or that it simply sounds odd. The fact that Haruhi has her uniform on seems to be a redundant point (unless explicitly mentioned in the novel). Thus, it could be simplified and made more concise by using this instead: "While fanning the upper half of her body with a textbook,"

• Haruhi's mouth was perfectly like a heno-ji. She looked like a cartoon character.

Please attach a translation note for the term heno-ji.

• We were frozen by an icy, minus 273 degree Celsius voice. Haruhi, wearing her PE uniform and carrying her bag, had a scary expression as though she had just witnessed her dad assaulting an innocent girl.

Unless "minus 273 degree Celsius" is explicitly mentioned, I think the original translation of "absolute zero" should be used and a translation note attached (just swap the link). The sentence would flow better with words alone rather than adding in scienific specifics.

• "Just kidding! Right now this sealed state is probably only temporary, but very soon it'll become similar to the world you know. Yet this world will be completely different to the world we're from. As of right now, this world could be considered as the real world, while the original reality ought to be considered a Sealed Dimension.
• After running quite a distance from the school buildings, we turned and looked upwards, and discovered how huge the giant was. The giant inside the Sealed Dimension Koizumi brought me in was just as huge as this, almost as tall as a building.
• As I answered Haruhi I thought at the same time, remembering what Koizumi told me when he brought me into that Sealed Dimension, if we let these "Deities" continue their rampage, then after the destruction, the Sealed Dimension will replace the real world, meaning this grey world will replace the world we came from, and then......

Inconsistencies noted in bold. I'll make the changes.

• What will the world become?

While this sentence is perfectly fine, I think a substitute of "What will become of our world?" is more explicit as it highlights the fact that Kyon is referring to the "original world" and its potential replacement by the Sealed Reality.

• According to what Koizumi just told me, Haruhi seems to be creating a brand new world. By then would the Asahina and Nagato I know be in this new world? Or will it be a surreal world where these "Deities" walk around freely, and aliens, time travellers and espers become commonplace?
• I couldn't tell how large this Sealed Dimension was, and I didn't know if this dimension would expand and become another reality. At this moment, my mind was full of uncertainties. If at this instant, an old drunkard sitting beside me in a train said to me, "Let me tell you something, but don't tell anyone! I'm actually an alien." I would have believed him right away. Because my mysterious event experience level has now tripled compared to a month ago.
• I sat waerily on the floor and grabbed my head thinking. If this were all a dream, why did it feel so real? The sweaty right hand, and the warmth left on the lips......

Inconsistencies and mild grammar issues. I shall attempt to rectify them.

• The sun continues to release its heat from its endless nuclear fusion. Mr Sunshine, I beg of you, can't you occasionally take a break? I'm going to fry to death!

Mild grammar issue. Substitute of "The sun continued to release its heat from its endless nuclear fusion."

--Da~Mike 20:40, 6 May 2006 (GMT)

Hey, Da~Mike. I've been meaning to reply to your long "sentence order post," but I haven't felt up to it lately. I'm just going to run through a few points that stick out to me, from your above points.

• "While fanning the breast of her school uniform with a textbook,"

I'm probably a stickler for leaning towards the "literal translation" side of things. But in any case, a school uniform's breast also refers to that V-shaped opening in the sailor collar, which is where she she is most likely to fan. Hence, I favor not losing information from the original.

• "minus 273 degree C voice."

this is in the actual book, and that aside, doesn't that just have a better ring to it? "Absolute Zero" needs another beat of time to realize that it's referring to temperature. Unless you're a physicist, I guess. But then again its possible that I'm the only one who likes those kinds of run-on-sentence-as-adjective descriptions. (See previous sentence!)

• "what will the world become?"

oddly enough, it works logically both ways. Haruhi is remaking the world, so what will that world become? That's actually what I thought when I read it, too. A translator would be needed to clarify this.

• You noticed a few grammar things I missed in my run-through. Good eye.
• "dreamt"

this is British spelling, as opposed to American spelling, which tends to use "dreamed" everywhere, though "dreamt" is used as well, usually in fixed sayings.

• "storey"

this is also British spelling, vs. "story." But it's interesting that the British have a "story" word that means only floor levels.

There's a lot of editing going on at once, I've noticed.

Tip: the "Show Changes" feature has saved me many times from accidentally overwriting someone else's edits.

--The naming game 13:22, 6 May 2006 (PDT)

Attack of the Blue Giant

• "I'm counting everything on you" (Nagato)

The text uses 賭ける, so I'm changing that to I'm betting everything on you.

• "I quickly pushed Haruhi down to the floor"

I couldn't resist changing "to" to "on".

• "Man, this is too lame"

I gave this line its own paragraph. It deserves it.

• "You'd look great in a ponytail"

「似合ってるぞ。」 I changed it to present tense. --Eleutheria 12:27, 6 May 2006 (PDT)

Someone appears to have a liking for "Sealed Dimensions" and "Deities", which is blatantly apparent in the chapter.

Please adhere to the Format/Style Guideline before making any edits. Furthermore, please note any edits you have made and justify your reasons for doing so in the discussion page for each respective chapter.

Thank you.

--Da~Mike 21:12, 6 May 2006 (GMT)

I think thats Kinny (The Translator) initial translated term, unless im mistaken. As you well know, Translators do not have stick to the Guidelines for translations, as we feel it will slow them down if they have to check themselves, thus allow the Editors to do the job for them. On the other hand, if it was altered by another user, then i will have ask you to cease, and to follow the guidelines.

Thank you.

Onizuka-gto 18:54, 6 May 2006 (PDT)

Besides, she's Suzumiya's subordinate.

I'm curious if the pronoun in this sentance is correct. The next sentance goes on: "If you're a normal high schooler, then I'm as normal as a flea."

It seems to me that "she" should actually be "you", if Taniguchi is talking about Kyon, rather than Yuki. From my limited knowledge of Japanese it seems like the subject of the sentance might have been left implicit, making it easy for a translator to make a mistake filling it in. Would somebody with the Japanese novels mind checking?

--BlckKnght 20:05, 7 May 2006 (PDT)

なにより涼宮の手下でもあるしな。 "Naniyori Suzumiya no teshita de mo arushi na."

In the Japanese novel the subject of the sentence is dropped, but the way I'm reading it, I would guess it was picking up the subject from before Yuki was mentioned, which would be Kyon. Unfortunately, my Japanese isn't the best, but I would guess it's refering to Kyon.

--Kumarei

Ok, I've gone ahead and changed it from "she's" to "you're". It makes a lot more sense that way.

--BlckKnght 19:39, 8 May 2006 (PDT)

As I reached the stairs leading to the school entrance, I was sort of grateful to Taniguchi for having a conversation with me, as the heat had cooled down after talking to him.

This line doesn't make sense in context, as in the previous section Kyon and Taniguchi had already climbed to the second floor. Is he approaching the entrace to his classroom instead?

--BlckKnght 20:11, 7 May 2006 (PDT)

Taniguchi walked up to the second floor"

The corresponding Japanese is:

マヌケ面が第二段階に進行する。 "Manuke omo ga daini dankai ni shinkou suru."

I'm fairly sure that the line "Taniguchi walked up to the second floor" is completely wrong. As clearly as I can make out, it says: "His foolish features advance to a second stage." As close as I can make out (without taking the time to do an exact translation), the next sentence is "His face was like a nanpa (a guy who picks up young girls), the kind young schoolgirls have to be careful of, and he said, [...]"

I can definately see how the mistake was made, since the sentence is pretty weird, and it mentions second stage (a phrase which contains 'second floor').

The sentence "As I reached the stairs leading to the school entrance, I was sort of grateful to Taniguchi for having a conversation with me, as the heat had cooled down after talking to him." makes more sense, then, although the second part sounds a bit weird. I'll check it tomorrow. Right now, I'll change the earlier sentence and get some sleep. If someone could link the word "nanpa" in the corrected sentence to a translation note (not exactly sure how to do it myself), I'd be grateful, and I'll fill in a more comprehensive note on nanpa tomorrow.

--Kumarei

I agree with Kumarei here, the translation ought to be something along the lines of what he said. To make the text flow better, I suggest replacing the current:

:His foolish features advance to a second stage. His face was like a nanpa, the kind young schoolgirls have to be careful of, and he said,

with this more streamlined version:

:The already foolish look on his face went up a notch. He looked like a nanpa, the kind young schoolgirls have to be careful of, and he said,

I've changed the text to reflect this. --Freak Of Nature 11:27, 9 May 2006 (PDT)

We passed by the shoe lockers and walked silently in the school building.

changed to "We passed by the shoe lockers and silently entered the school building." since the prior wording felt awkward and I kept reading it as "walked silently through the school"
Dogtato 15:33, 8 May 2006 (PDT)