Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi:Volume1 Chapter1

Suzumiya Haruhi's language

This is mostly about thelastguardian's translation of Haruhi using "kick ass". Psieye toned it down to "awesome". Although I am personally against using strong language, if this same crude language is present in the original Japanese, I won't complain keeping the "kick ass." -- Baltakatei 01:22, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

Cruzz used the word "radical" for that passage. It certainly seems the best choice but his whole style is different so perhaps "radical" isn't what we're seeking here for this translation's style. Psieye 23:44, 19 April 2006 (GMT)

I guess I'll jump in to say something. The original japanese line is:

高校にはもっとラディカルなサークルがあると思ってたのに。 Koukou ni wa motto radikaruna saakuru ga aru to omotteta no ni.

As such, I never even considered any other words except "radical". It covers both bases, and frankly I'd be willing to bet that the line is mostly referring to actual radicalness (differing from a norm).

--Cruzz 10:21, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

No excuse here. I was being radical. Personally I feel that this translation corresponds closest to the actual undertone of the phase.

I wanted to go for the really literal route- what an English speaker may say in that situation.

--Thelastguardian 14:53, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

Vague/Awkward sounding phrases

As I work on fixing up the various grammar, I keep coming across some phrases that sound odd, but which I am unsure what to do with. I hesitate to change them around too much on my own, so I'll list whatever ones I find here for discussion. --Ryukaiser 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

"Normal humans don't interest me. If anyone here is an alien, from the future, from a different dimension, or an esper, then come find me! That is all."

On one of SH's official wallpapers, the line is translated as the following in the ever so amusing Engrish style- man of doesn't have the interest. Please come to me If you are Alien, TimeTraveler, Another world person, ESP. That's it... --Thelastguardian 14:46, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

The fansub for the anime translates the equivalent line to something quite similar, so it seems pretty accurate, to me. --Ryukaiser 16:53, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

She didn't carry a lunch box, so I guessed she went to the cafeteria to enjoy her lunch

I changed "guessed" to "had assumed" - it seems a bit clearer to me, but still seems awkward. (I'd have left it as "had guessed", but that sounds even worse.) --Ryukaiser 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Is the "had" really necessary in "had assumed"? Why not just "so I assumed she went to the cafeteria..."? It's simpler and carries the same message. --Baltakatei 23:06, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Well, to me, since the story is narrated in past tense, just "I assumed" could cause some confusion, as it kind of implies he did so throughout the story, while "had assumed" says he did so at that time. The latter seems to be more accurate, to me. Others may disagree, though. --Ryukaiser 23:24, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I see what you mean. The "had" is a good choice. --Baltakatei 23:34, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I suddenly want to see her hairstyle on Sunday.

This phrase bothers me a bit. From what I can tell, as he is narrating the story / remembering the events, he suddenly gets really curious about what her hair looked like on Sunday (which is very understandable). So, it should probably be in present tense, like it already is. What bothers me, though, is that Kyon should know, as he's relating events from the past, that she stops following that pattern, so, while his want is in the present, what he wants to see is something from the past. The best I can do to make it sound better is "I suddenly want to see what her hair would have looked like on a Sunday." but I don't know. What does anyone else think? --Ryukaiser 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Hmm, I automatically assumed that he got that urge to see her Sunday hair when he first figured out the pattern. Your interpretation works too though... either way I guess this phrase does need changing, but which way? --Psieye 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I had assumed that as well, but now that Ryukaiser mentions it, I think it should go to with the "would have looked like" thing. I guess we need to see the original translation to really tell? --Adelina 10:44, 21 April 2006 (CST)

I agree with using the present tense in Kyon's musings about the hair styles. I think the "would have looked like" phrase works well without having the original Japanese on hand. --Baltakatei 23:12, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Now that more chapters have been translated and edited, it appears that the earlier speculations that Kyon's narrative in the past tense only covers up to the point by which the SOS Brigade was performed, though where exactly, I haven't read thoroughly enough to ascertain.

In any case, this minor issue can be resolved now and I propose a substitute for the current sentence used:

• The original

As the day of the week increased, so would the number of her ponytails; by next Monday, the whole process would start again. I couldn't see why she was doing it. Following the previous logic, she should have had six ponytails on Sunday... I suddenly want to see her hairstyle on Sunday.

• My suggestion

As the day of the week increased, so would the number of her ponytails; by next Monday, the whole process would start again. I couldn't see why she was doing it. Following this logic, she should have had six ponytails on Sunday... I suddenly want to see what her hair would look like on Sunday.

--Da~Mike 01:20, 7 May 2006 (GMT)

It is as if to her, the guys are pumpkins or potato sacks, and she couldn't care less.

The ever-present tense issue. Have we come to a consensus about what tense these kind of phrases should be in? I changed it to past tense because, well, the description relates to her actions in the past. She may or may not still think that, but the actions which gave him that impression happened in the past. --Ryukaiser 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I think we need to ascertain one thing first before we can discuss what should and shouldn't be in present tense - what is 'the present' for Kyon's narration? As in, is he telling this story years after the end of all possible Suzumiya Haruhi novels or is he living out his experiences as the novels get written? I'm inclined to think the latter - specifically that 'the present' for Kyon for Chapter 1 is a few days after the SOS-dan was formed. As in, chapter 1 is about him recounting the backstory up to his 'present time' of being in the newly formed SOS-dan.

Using my assumption above, it's easy to say that the above phrase should stay as "It's as if to her, guys are..." Question is, how valid is my assumption of when 'the present' is? --Psieye 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

What is that girl trying to pull?

Kyon should know by now what she was up to, as he asks her about it later, so just changing it to past tense won't work. On the other hand, none of Kyon's other dialogue has anything like "I said" or "I wondered" or whatever, so it is difficult to make it clear that it is something he wondered at the time. I have no idea what to do with this one. --Ryukaiser 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Mayhaps a complete rephrasing to something like "Her actions were so enigmatic" or "Her motives were an unfathomable mystery"? --Psieye 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Heh "unfathomable"... IMHO, I believe the phrase is fine as it is. The reader doesn't know what Haruhi was doing so Kyon is politely expressing his wonder at the time without giving any spoilers. Also, since large illustrations are used to accompany each page, I believe that the novel tries to involve the reader as much as possible. When I read the passage in question, I imagined seeing an illustration of Haruhi grinning mischeviously from Kyon's point of view. Maybe such thoughts stem from my exposure to the animated version of the novel. --Baltakatei 23:46, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

In the middle of all this mess there is always only one perpetrator: Haruhi – May arrives quietly.

This phrase sorta confuses me. All what mess? Perpetrator of what? How does "May arrives quietly" relate to the rest of the sentence? Maybe I'm just missing something obvious, I don't know. --Ryukaiser 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I took it to mean that there were a great many rumours, uproars, disturbances etc which could all be somehow traced back to Haruhi. "May arrives" I interpret as 'in the midst of this chaos, May arrived.' Yeah, I guess this phrase does need to be re-written for greater clarity. --Psieye 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Yeah, I'll bug a translator and get this clarified. :) --Baltakatei 00:00, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

I (FON) was the translator that was bugged, and this is copied from my talk page:

Since you apparently have access to the original Japanese novel here's a question. In Chapter 1 Kyon says:

In the middle of all this mess there was always only one perpetrator: Haruhi – May arrived quietly.

In this passage, Kyon implies that all disturbances at the school are related to Haruhi's antics. In contrast, May is said to arrive without significant events occuring. Does the original Japanese contain this conflict? -- Baltakatei 23:59, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Glad to assist. The original passage (end of page 25 in the novel) is

そんなこんなをしながら～～もっとも、そんなこんなをしていたのはハルヒだけだったが～～五月がやってくる。

sonnakonna o shinagara -- mottomo, sonnakonna shite ita no wa Haruhi dakedatta ga -- gogatsu yatte kuru.

Or in other words:

"As this and that was happening -- although, it was always Haruhi doing this and that, however -- May arrived."

That's the literal translation, and I think the translation you cited above is perhaps a bit too free.

--Freak Of Nature 02:38, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

After some thought, I've reached the conclusion that the sentence should be:

"As this and that is happening -- although it was always Haruhi doing this and that, however -- May arrives."

This preserves Kyon's weird tenses throughout the sentence -- notice how the primary sentence is in present tense, whereas the secondary clause is in past tense. This is really most exasperating for a translator.

I've made the change in the text to this sentence.

--Freak Of Nature 02:39, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

That may be an accurate translation, but it still seems a bit awkwardly worded in English. Maybe something like:

"With all this stuff going on -- even though Haruhi was the cause of it... but, anyway -- May arrives."

-- kumarei 10:15, 07 May 2006

Hmm, sounds good - remove the comma after "but" maybe? Well, I'll let you edit the text so you can take credit for it. If others don't like it, it can be changed back afterwards.

--Psieye 21:57, 7 May 2006 (PDT)

For some reason, both the "though" and "anyway" -- and their equivalents in the other sentence permutations -- don't seem to add any meaning, building up expectations that get left hanging.

Here's where "though" makes sense to me:

With all these deliveries needing to be made, though it was Mr. Incompetent driving, we all returned safely.

There's no such surprise or expectation with May arriving despite Haruhi's being behind this and that. I'll break it down:

• deliveries needed plus Mr. Incompetent driving equals unlikely to return safely.
• this and that happening plus Haruhi being the cause equals May unlikely to arrive???

Here's where "anyway" makes sense to me:

With the sounds of birds singing -- hmmm, I could really go for a pizza about now... anyway -- May arrives.

Again, the breakdown:

• birds singing plus irrelevant aside about pizza, anyway, May arrives.
• this and that happening plus irrelevant (???) aside about Haruhi, anyway, May arrives.

Haruhi has everything to do with "this and that" happening, so it's not really irrelevant. "Anyway" can also be used to gloss over embarrassing points -- that usage would fit, except Kyon really isn't one to gloss over anything.

The sentence structure really makes the most sense to me -- watch me build it up:

With the sound of birds singing, May arrives.

and then:

With the sound of birds singing -- and the new birdfeeder was a big reason -- May arrives.

Using kumarei's sentence as a base:

With all this stuff going on -- and Haruhi was the cause of it -- May arrives.

or

With all this stuff going on -- and, by the way, Haruhi was the cause of it -- May arrives.

For yet another translation of the original sentence, which also is missing the extraneous signifiers "although" and "anyway," go here. The signifier he does use, "Well," is more along the lines of "By the way," which doesn't have problems fitting most places. Freak Of Nature does have signifiers in his literal translation, but if so, then as far as I'm concerned, the original text didn't make sense either.

My own guess, however, is that those signifiers are needed in Japanese, in order to complete the function that hyphens alone -- you know, these kinds of things -- carry in English. Therefore, they're not needed in an English translation, as adding them makes you expect an extra meaning, beyond the already implicit hyphen-aside function.

--The naming game 11:20, 8 May 2006 (PDT)

With all this stuff going on -- and Haruhi was the cause of it -- May arrives.

I was debating about whether to use 'and' or 'though' in my version, and decided on 'though' since it seemed more accurate to what the original text was trying to convey. It felt to me as if 'though' gives it a bit of an accusatory twist, as in "I was very busy, though Haruhi was the cause", as opposed to "I was very busy, and Haruhi was the cause". If that's not conveyed, then I see no reason not to change it to 'and', since and does flow slightly better.

The anyway was because of the way I imagined Kyon saying the sentence. The part about Haruhi is really an aside, since the sentence is really about May getting there. The middle part is kind of a rehash, and not the point of the sentence, and in the Japanese would be ended with a hanging ga. This carries a kind of assumed elipses which I didn't think could be added to the main aside, so I used the word 'anyway' to signify that he was pausing and getting back on track.

--Kumarei 16:06, 8 May 2006 (EST)

Nice analysis of the structure The naming game. It seems clear that the use of though in that sentence is completely illogical. If we had to use a reason as to why it is, it is because Haruhi would not be the cause for a new month to come (in terms of the storyline, we know that Kyon doesn't know that Haruhi actually possesses supernatural powers yet).

I probably misinterpreted The naming game's analysis so the lines above may not apply.

If I had to compare the literal translation and The naming game's example of using though, in terms of the application of the word though, they aren't that similar. Here's why I think so (I've categorised them in to letters and what not for ease of understanding):

The literal translation:

• As this and that was happening = A --although, it was always Haruhi doing this and that = B, however -- May arrived. = C

In this case, B is the cause of A but regardless of that fact, C occurs.

The naming game's example:

• With all these deliveries needing to be made = X, though it was Mr. Incompetent driving = Y, we all returned safely = Z

In this case, X needs to be done and is carried out by Y. However, because Y is doing it, Z is jeopardised and may not occur. Yet despite Y performing X, Z occurs.

Based on this breakdown, it seems that the literal translation is logical in its original state.

Anyhow, I've analysed the Japanese sentence provided and after noting Freak of nature's translation, here's another literal translation of what it means: While to do such a thing though, it was just Haruhi who does such a thing, but May comes.. Another nonsensical sentence... With respect to the original translation, Freak of Nature's literal translation and from what I've interpreted additionally (with the aid of The naming game's analysis), here's my suggested interpretation of this sentence:

The original translation:

• In the middle of all this mess there is always only one perpetrator: Haruhi – May arrives quietly.

My suggestion:

• Regardless of all the randomly inexplicable events that went by, even though Haruhi was the cause of them all, the month of May arrived.

Hence, in essence, my suggested substitute for the word "anyway" would be "regardless" or something along those lines, such as "despite".

Hope that helps.

--Da~Mike 22:26, 8 May 2006 (GMT)

I think it would be perfectly acceptable to use The naming game's With all this stuff going on -- and Haruhi was the cause of it -- May arrives. I think it still carries the majority of the meaning of the sentence, and flows better than most of the other versions. I think the change that Da~Mike suggested might be a little too off of the original meaning.

--Kumarei 18:46, 8 May 2006 (EST)

What the hell does Earth want?! If this continues I would get Yellow Fever!

Another of Kyon's internal dialogues. The second part should probably be "If this continued, I would get Yellow Fever!" and I changed it as such, but I have no idea what to do with the first. --Ryukaiser 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I took it simply as a figure of speech, an exclaimation. If we are to change that first part, try to find a more familiar exclaimation I guess: e.g. just shortening it to "What the hell?" --Psieye 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I'm amused at the "What the hell does Earth want?!" It's not a phrase you hear often or at all. It also doesn't sound like something a translator can make up. --Baltakatei 00:05, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

It's a pretty accurate translation of the original text, which is:

地球はいったい何がやりたいんだろう。黄熱病にでもかかってるんじゃないか。

chikyuu wa ittai nani ga yaritain darou. ounetsubyou ni demo kakatterun ja nai ka.

I take it to mean that Kyon is anthropomorphizing the Earth, as an entity that is actively out to get him, by deliberately placing weather and natural obstacles in his path.

As for the Yellow Fever thing? Well, either he means "jaundice" (although that would be 黄疸 oudan), or we can chalk it down to the rather unscientific (superstitious, even) Japanese attitude to disease and health issues. Yellow Fever is a contagious disease that is spread to humans by infected mosquitos in tropical regions, but in Japan there is still an almost 19th century-ish belief that contagious diseases can arise from exertion or exhaustion. It's amusing, really -- I'm a medical historian, and I see this sort of thing all the time, in European texts from the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries.

--Freak Of Nature 03:17, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

I'm sure that readers will be just as confused as we editors were with this, but now we have an explanation it's much clearer. I think we should have a page for translator's notes so that the readers and editors won't be so confused. --Adelina 07:22, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

Agreed. Somewhere to explain references that can be lost across the cultures is necessary - we're translating across cultures as well as languages afterall.

--Psieye 09:37, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

Incidentally, I believe "the world" has the same role in English as "the Earth" seems to have in Japanese. To wit:

It seems like the world is against me, sometimes.

-- a perfectly colloquial English sentence.

As for "Yellow Fever" ... "nervous breakdown"? At least that fits the exertion/exhaustion criteria, mostly because it's an exact medical match. Still, just from the previous information, nervous breakdowns seem to be referenced in English similarly to the usage of Yellow Fever in Japanese. A link to translation notes would be good in any case, since it was an interesting bit of trivia.

--The naming game 11:29, 8 May 2006 (PDT)

I think "nervous breakdown/exhaustion" (or just "collapse from exhaustion") is a perfectly acceptable change to make. The Yellow Fever remark would not carry all the appropriate connotations for an English reader, whereas prostration or exhaustion would.

--Freak Of Nature 13:33, 8 May 2006 (PDT)

While your interpretation is perfectly fine, I must say that I do agree with The naming game rather strongly in that it would be a shame to omit the bit of trivia regarding Japanese superstitions. Hence, I would also suggest keeping the original form of "yellow fever" or a suitable substitute whilst adding a translation note regarding it, explaining the reason for using the term "yellow fever" and its correlation to Japanese superstition.

--Da~Mike 23:02, 8 May 2006 (GMT)

He lay his sports jacket on his shoulders; his shirt is wrinkled throughout his chest.

I am guessing the first part should be "His sports jacket layed on his shoulders," and I've changed it to that. I am not sure what to do with the second part, though. --Ryukaiser 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I suggest "shirt was wrinkled across his chest" *makes that minor edit* --Psieye 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

"across" is a good word to use. I concur. --Baltakatei 00:07, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

The passage in question (on page 26 of the novel) is:

「よ、キョン」

後ろから肩を叩かれた。谷口だった。

ブレザーをだらしなく肩に引っかけ、ネクタイをよれよれに結んだニヤケ面で、

「ゴールデンウィークはどっか行ったか？」

__

"Hey, Kyon."

From behind, somebody clapped me on the shoulder. It was Taniguchi.

His blazer hung slovenly on his shoulders, his necktie was wrinkled and skewed to one side.

"Where did you go for Golden Week?"

__

I've taken the liberty of making this correction in the text. --Freak Of Nature 15:38, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

Frankly, topics like what dreams people have, or how amazing or cute someone's pet is are, in my book, are some of the dullest topics in the world.

I don't like the "is are" part of this sentence. I mean, I understand why it is there, but it looks awkward. The best idea I have is to put a comma after the phrase "or how amazing or cute someone's pet is," but it still looks awkward to me. And that's where I'll end my proofreading of chapter 1 for now. I'll pick it back up sometime later. --Ryukaiser 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Oh, then let's break it up into two sentences *makes that minor edit too* --Psieye 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Good call. --Baltakatei 00:12, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

My grandma was the one who first called me that.

『最初に言い出だしたのは叔母の一人だったように記憶している。』

My mistake. I used the Chinese edition to translate and it was a mistake. The original Japanese version says "one of my aunts". I checked the Japanese volume to make sure it says aunts.

Found on MegaTokyo. Strangely enough no one tried to correct the mistake. I really hope people just correct it- if you notice the mistake, correct it.

--Thelastguardian 02:41, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

But, just as I was still part of this class, there were always people who wanted to talk to the eyebrow-locking, mouth-scowling Haruhi.

(alt translation from Cruzz's site.)

But it's not like there weren't people who hadn't understood yet, who didn't have an eye for this kind of thing. There still were classmates who'd try to talk about something to Suzumiya Haruhi, who was always scowling and making a line with her lips as if she was in a bad mood.

Possible change:

But there were still those who hadn't understood yet. There were still people who wanted to talk to the eyebrow-locking, mouth-scowling Haruhi.

--The naming game 13:47, 1 May 2006 (PDT)

The sentence in the title suggests a meaning that appears to be absent in both Cruzz's and The naming game's interpretations; it implies that for some reason, people (including Kyon himself) were drawn to Haruhi and would still try to talk to her, regardless of whether they understood her or accepted her nature.

Again, the source text would be incredibly helpful if we are to clarify this. Could someone provide the source text for this particular phrase please? Thanks.

--Da~Mike 01:13, 7 May 2006 (GMT)

As this and that was happening -- although it was always Haruhi at the center of it all -- May arrived.

(alt translation from Cruzz's site.)

In the middle of this and that happening, well, the one doing this and that was no other than Haruhi, May arrived.

I wasn't clear on "this and that" referring to Haruhi's craziness, until I read Cruzz's translation. So perhaps a rephrase could emphasize that part?

Possible change:

As this and that was happening -- and it was always Haruhi at its center, causing it all -- May arrived.

--The naming game 13:47, 1 May 2006 (PDT)

I didn't realize there was already a discussion of this phrase on the talk page. I didn't recognize it when skimming the titles because the wording had changed greatly.

--The naming game 20:41, 3 May 2006 (PDT)

the only explanation I could give was that I was going nuts - by the time I realized it, I found myself talking to Suzumiya Haruhi.

(alt translation from Cruzz's site.)

At this point I must have been possessed by some sort of evil spirit, I can't think of any other reason for this. When I came back to my senses I was talking with Haruhi.

The extra bit of meaning in Cruzz's translation is "possessed by some sort of evil spirit" -- which forms a nice parallel with the corresponding "when I came back to my senses." This small bit of wit really isn't that crucial, but I thought I'd throw this in for completeness.

Is this same parallelism there in the original?

Possible change:

the only explanation I could give was that I was going nuts - by the time I regained my sanity, I found myself talking to Suzumiya Haruhi.

--The naming game 13:47, 1 May 2006 (PDT)

The title sentence is quite amusing if misinterpreted. You could interpret that what Kyon's saying is that by the time he realised he was going nuts, he found himself talking to Haruhi. But then again, it could be part of the original novel's humour. Both Cruzz's and The naming game's interpretations imply that despite Kyon regaining his sanity/senses (when he was previously unsure of), he still found himself talking to Haruhi.

It all seems fairly confusing I think... Okay, so here are the possible meanings of the sentence: Kyon thinks he's going crazy:

• and by the time he realised that he was, he found himself talking to Haruhi
• and by the time he regained his senses/sanity, he found himself talking to Haruhi
• and before he could mentally establish the fact that he was talking to Haruhi, he was already talking to her.

The actual phrase used in the Japanese book would be of an enormous help (or a literal translation of the original source phrase). Could one of the translators please provide this? Thanks.

--Da~Mike 01:06, 7 May 2006 (GMT)

She always has this aspiration that she would soon meet the supernatural world that I abandoned long ago, and she enthusiastically tries to achieve her dream.

(alt translation from Cruzz's site.)

Even now, she's eagerly waiting for that chance meeting with the paranormal, something I gave up on a long time ago. And she's certainly taking an active approach at it.

I can't really comment meaning-wise on either one. I believe Cruzz's runs more smoothly in English -- the only thing I'd change is "approach at it" to "approach to it."

--The naming game 13:47, 1 May 2006 (PDT)

Cruzz's version does seem more fluid.

:I can't really comment meaning-wise on either one. I believe Cruzz's runs more smoothly in English -- the only thing I'd change is "approach at it" to "approach to it."

Your change seems to enhance the flow of the sentence so I think we should go with that.

--Da~Mike 00:57, 7 May 2006 (GMT)

I pressed my numbing back head and turned around slowly.

(alt translation from Cruzz's site.)

Turning back forward holding my ringing head, ...

Suggested change:

I turned back slowly, holding my ringing head.

--The naming game 13:47, 1 May 2006 (PDT)

I re-read the passage where this line originated from and unless we re-structure that passage, the only changes that are suitable are ones that stick with the raw translation noted above. I've given it quite a bit of thought and I've found it impossible to use a sentence that seems more coherent than the raw translation, given the order that the passage has been written in. Thus, here's my suggestion to re-structuring the passage:

• The original

Haruhi finally let go of my collar. I pressed my numbing back head and turned around slowly. I noticed that the whole class looked totally awestruck. The freshly-graduated newbie teacher, with her chalk in her hand, stared at me and looked as if she was ready to cry.

• My suggestion

Haruhi finally let go of my collar. Whilst massaging the back of my head, which was now throbbing, I turned around slowly, only to find that the whole class was completely dumbstruck. The freshly-graduated fledgling teacher, with a chalk in her hand, stared at me and looked as if she was about to cry.

I note that since this is one of my suggestions, a change like mine may not be "like a needle in a hay stack". I invite anyone else to have an attempt at changing this. Hopefully someone might come up with a suggestion that will meld in perfectly with the rest of the text.

--Da~Mike 00:53, 7 May 2006 (GMT)

...all the tables were moved out into the corridor...

My knowledge of the contents of Japanese classrooms is limited to what I've seen in various School animes, but it seems to me that "tables" should be changed to "desks" in the paragraph:

"Once I came to the classroom in the morning and discovered that all the tables were moved out to the corridor, or that there were printed stars on the school roof. Another time she was going around the school posting curse papers all over the place...you know, those Chinese vampire ones where you put the paper talisman on a vampire's forehead. I just can't understand her."

If this is a language issue (i.e. Japanese does not distinguish between desks and tables in the same way as English) then it might be worth looking at other places the word "table" is used to see if the same change would be appropriate there too. Any thoughts?

--BlckKnght 23:25, 3 May 2006 (PDT)

From my knowledge of both Japanese and Mandarin chinese, unlike English, there is no clear distinction between desks and tables.

For the sake of making clear distinctions between a certain type of object, as there would be in English, I think we should adapt the translations according to the context. So for the case of a class room, the translation for "table" should be interpreted as "desk", and so on so forth.

Please proceed and make the changes as you deem suitable regarding this topic.

--Da~Mike 00:30, 7 May 2006 (GMT)

Taniguchi had probably experienced the same thing himself.

I'm not sure if I understand this sentance correctly in the current version. Kyon thinks that Taniguchi was one of the guys Haruhi dumped?

If so, I suggest a change to something like:

Taniguchi seemed to be speaking from experience.

--BlckKnght 23:29, 3 May 2006 (PDT)

Compared to the original translation, your suggestion seems to be better BlckKnght. I think it is simply because the original of "Taniguchi had probably experienced the same thing himself." could imply that he was dumped but not neccessarily by Haruhi whereas with "Taniguchi seemed to be speaking from experience.", it becomes obvious that he got the "5-minute dump" from Haruhi.

I think the change would suit the context better.

--Da~Mike 00:25, 7 May 2006 (GMT)

Well, that's the question: Did Taniguchi actually get dumped by Haruhi, or does Kyon merely consider such a possibility?

Maybe something more like "Was Taniguchi speaking from experience?" would preserve the ambiguity. Could a translator take a look at that section?

--BlckKnght 06:37, 8 May 2006 (PDT)

Although both our suggested interpretations would connotate the same thing (that Kyon would be guessing that Taniguchi got dumped by Haruhi), the degree by which he would be doing so is not as strong in your suggested interpretation. By this, I mean that this sentence "Taniguchi seemed to be speaking from experience." implies that Kyon would be inclined to assume that Taniguchi got dumped whereas "Was Taniguchi speaking from experience?" impies that Kyon is largely unsure whether he was dumped by Haruhi.

Again, the actual source text would be invaluable to decide which would suit the context better.

However, if I had to choose which sentence would suit Kyon as a character, I would think the sentence "Taniguchi seemed to be speaking from experience." would fit the cynical and sarcastic nature of Kyon much better than "Was Taniguchi speaking from experience?", which would be something a "nicer person" would think to themselves, such as a character like Mikuru.

--Da~Mike 21:56, 8 May 2006 (GMT)