Talk:Kino no Tabi:Volume6
Whoa! A full text page! Hooray! (Sorry I can't contain my excitement...^^;) It's Kino no Tabi's first completed volume here in B-T after all... *dances*
Thanks, User753! Ella.servantes 19:32, 1 August 2012 (CDT)
Greetings.You're welcome. At least that's what I can do as a fellow reader that admire your works.-/-User753-Talk- 17:39, 3 August 2012 (CDT)
Umm, about the images in the light novel... May I ask about in which parts are they placed? Like before the chapter title, after the chapter title, in the middle of the chapter, or something like that. Sorry, because I think it's probably a little hard if someone wants to make a pdf version of this series; n-not to say that I would make it(!). *ahem* Well, I have a gist of idea about some, but I don't want to bet on a random guess works.-/-User753-Talk- 03:45, 7 August 2012 (CDT)
Actually I was thinking of adding the pictures after I finished proofreading the chapters (But from the looks of it, that's not gonna happen in the immediate future). I'm appalled with the no. of mistakes I made in my first few (err no, many) translations, so I'm doing some clean-up work bit by bit. But just to let you know, most (but not all) Kino no Tabi chapters only have two pictures (until the 9th volume only though, in succeeding volumes there's only one per chapter except for the important ones... T_T). The first type were those dark and inked B&W pics in the Novel Illustrations page. They're easy to spot because 1) They contain the title of the chapter, and 2) The picture takes two pages. The second type are those sketchy pics which only take up a small part of one page. The first type are title pages, so they always go in the beginning of the chapter. The second type of pics always go at the end of the chapter. No exception. If you see full-one-page pics which do not belong to the above two types, those are most definitely insert illustrations, and only at that time will you need our help in determining which page it goes... but they're pretty rare (which is unfortunate)
Hey! PDF's are a must for any completed volume and I'd love it if someone does take the job! *ahem*
Oh, right. This volume still has the author's notes part waiting, so technically, it's not yet completed... If you're wondering why I haven't translated a single author's notes page by now (specially because they're just 1 or 2 pages long), it's because Sigsawa's afterwords are so weird - when I'm stuck with translation, I can't just 'trust my instinct' and hope that the translation would sound natural in English... and partly because I'm scared to mistranslate the author's words... and partly because I'm too addicted with the stories to go and translate something else... But I'll try and face them in the future.... ^_^
Slightly off-topic, but since you started talking about illustrations, I wanted to discuss something.
You might've noticed that I've stopped posting illustrations after volume 9. The reason is pretty simple – the illustrations in volume 10 and subsequent volumes are partly cropped, so I can't combine two adjusting illustrations (inserted before each chapter) into one. Well I could've scanned my hard copies, but I don't have a scanner plus I just don't want to damage the books. So my question is – should I post the illustrations 'as is', without editing them?
As for author notes – haha, that's the hell of a question. Some あとがき's are pretty straightforward and really funny, like the one in volume 3 :D But on the other hand, some of them are reeeealy weird, for instance the one in volume 4, I didn't catch the meaning of half of it -_-
Dammitt 06:33, 7 August 2012 (CDT)
Not off-topic at all... :D
No! Of course, you shouldn't rip your books just to scan the pages... ^_^ I can probably do something about the cropped areas with photoshop, but since I'm not sure when I can do some serious image editing again, you can go ahead and post them in the meantime... and thanks!
I know right?? Volume 4 Author's notes was the first 'atogaki' I tried to translate (because I heard it was the side-joke that started Gakuen Kino). But 'What in the world is he saying???' went around my head before I gave up on the 5th paragraph or so... -_-
Thank you. I'll try make it. But I'm sorry if it's not that good yet. When it's finished please tell me what you think about that.-/-User753-Talk- 09:57, 7 August 2012 (CDT)
Here's a version of the pdf on mediafire(!). Please tell me about this one. Are there mistakes and something lacking in there? Perhaps the font size? (minus the " ・" in the bookmark. I still don't know how to type that in the bookmark) If it already passed I'll put the link on the main page.-/-User753-Talk- 19:54, 7 August 2012 (CDT)
That was quick... 0_0 I checked it out and here's my comments:
- Uhh... the front cover page... was it removed on purpose?
- Is there a way to insert the frontispiece pages without 'squishing' them? Frontispiece 1 is 3 pages wide while frontispiece 2 is 4 pages wide (it was just cut off).
- Font's great.
- Is it okay to justify the paragraphs...? so it's prettier... :D
- I love the footnotes! I was actually worried where the translator's notes would be placed, or that they might have to be removed because they're a nuisance, but you solved that for me. Thanks! ^_^
- I also love how you put the chapter titles in the header. (Wow, my idea of a pdf version sure is plain...XD)
- That picture of Shizu and Kino at the end with '--Road to "Colosseum"' written under it? That's one of the rare insert illustrations, it goes right after the chapter 'How Much Do I Pay For?'
- For the credits page, 'Ella' is fine, and thanks for putting that there... ^_^
Finally... I made a mistake... I made you do a pdf and full text without proofreading the chapters first.... T_T T_T T_T I realized when I saw the squigglies '~' in the chapter titles. Those were my preferred format when I was just starting to translate, because I didn't know the existence of the 'em-dash' (the long dash, '—') that time. I'm so sorry.... T_T
Anyway, I decided to translate the Author's Notes (it will be in by Sunday, as usual) so the pdf should wait until then too. By that time, the proofreading will also be done. All in all, the pdf was really well done, much much better than how I imagined it would turn out. I suddenly had an idea with the pictures. But I had to ask first, is it okay for me to change the Japanese titles to their English equivalents in the pictures? (You know, like they do when they scanlate manga?) That will only take a little photoshop'ing, but I'm worried that it's not allowed here or something....
Ella.servantes 05:46, 8 August 2012 (CDT)
Thanks, I was worried about how my first attempt will go.
- About the front cover page... when I match these:
Front Cover
Page 002
I found it to be exactly the same. And since I though it was a double, I omitted it. I guess I was wrong.
- Frontispiece 1 and 3... I think I have an idea how to with #1. But I'm not sure about where to break the page with #3. I'll try to find a way.
- Thanks, I'm worried that it will be too small for some of the reader. But I guess I'm overthinking it.
- Will try to justify...
- You're welcome. For the footnotes... actually I wanted to put it in a translator's notes near the back and connect it with hyperlinks. But since I think it'll be troublesome if I have to going back and forth (and I forget how to anyway --a). But if it look better with hyperlinks I'll manage.
- Well, it's not my idea. I was (still am) awed by SAO pdf(s) that was built by some of the members of the community. (like Carj, Vaelis, LiTTleDRAgo, ...) So, I guess I'll be following their formatting...
- Ah, thanks. Will change it for the next version.
- Understood. ||
Nah, that's fine. Don't worry about that.
I'm looking forward to it. To edit them like Zero2001 did in this? I think it's okay. But won't translating and photoshopping page like these:
Page 010-011
Page 012
will be quite a (painful) work to you? (As I have no experience in photoshop, so I can't tell.)-/-User753-Talk- 22:54, 8 August 2012 (CDT)
For some reason I've messed up the front-page illustration. I've reverted it, so now it's the correct one. Sorry for confusion.
Dammitt 03:18, 9 August 2012 (CDT)
Dammitt, I've downloaded and edited the illustrations from volume 6... (It's nice that your scans are high-res. Mine are so tiny I couldn't do anything with them.... -_-) It's because I'm doing something with the titles, I'll be re-uploading a newer version of the illustrations later. :D
User753, so it was done before! I'm glad to know that it's allowed here. But what I'll be doing would be nothing as fancy as those done in SAO (Oh, so the format came from SAO, good thing you have something nice to pattern after, and good thing you got the format in just one try!). Luckily for Volume 6, I found blank (meaning no text) copies of the frontispiece pages which will need bloody editing, the only pics I'll have to edit are exactly those two you showed me. Don't worry, everything I do here, I do in the name of love... XD
Hehe, thanks (maybe if I try to build my own version on my own without something to based upon, it will either be darker blue or brown to be more easy on the eye when read indoor. Or maybe light blue, green, or orange so it could be easier to be read outdoor. And it probably will be quite messy.). It was mostly based on hunch and luck (in converting the format from pdf back to MS Word and matching the difference). Although, I forget to add the numbering (I wonder if my bag of luck is still refilling, I really forgot about that).
Justifying complete. But there're some paragraphs that're too long to fit in one page, so I have to part them. Or should I move all to a new page for easier read?
For "squeezing" frontispiece 1 and 3...you mean for reducing the number of pages right? I'm sorry, because I only manage to reduce the number of #1 from 7 to 5, but no avail in #3(still 6 pages).
For the images, I'll try to add them tomorrow afternoon after college (GMT+7*look at clock*...Well, that counts as afternoon today) Mind if I use your version of the page that has been translated than the original? Or would it be better if both are included?
And love it is.-/-User753-Talk- 12:36, 9 August 2012 (CDT)
It's messy work converting from PDF to MS Word, I'm glad you pulled it off... :)
Oh, I also forgot about the page numbers! If you can put them, that would be really nice.
It's fine to split the paragraphs. I'd prefer not to move the entire paragraph if the space that will be left on the page is too big (like more than 5 lines). It's just an aesthetic preference of mine though. You can do what you think would look better... :D
... Oh! We misunderstood each other... (I didn't clarify what I really mean). What I was referring to were the pictures for the frontispiece, not the text... Specifically, pages 3-5 of your sample pdf. See below:
The picture below is 3 pages wide, approximately.
Frontispiece 1
The two images below when connected is about 4 pages wide: (I will upload a revised version with these two connected)
Frontispiece 2
Frontispiece 2 cut off
Is there a way not to 'squish' the pictures above? In the pdf they were fit into such a small space, and got distorted.
For the illustrations, please use the updated versions. You don't have to include both the Japanese and English versions because the images are practically the same except for the text. Just use the English ones. That goes for the table of contents as well. Though I love the look of the Japanese version (I would have preserved it if possible), I'd prefer it if the readers can understand it.... :)
I hope to finish the blank frontispiece pages by Sunday... BTW, which do you prefer... The no text frontispiece pictures followed by the text of the frontispiece on the next page/s, OR the text embedded with the pictures? (like those in SAO) If we do the second one, the text for the frontispiece chapters will have to be removed... (and I don't know what will happen to the T/N's)
Oh, I have additional comments.
The title should be Kino no Tabi —the Beautiful World— (The'T' in 'the' should be in small caps, and World is not plural...). Also, please add yourself in the credits page. I insist. ^_^
Again, thank you so much for your efforts. Don't hurry, we have all the time and love in the world! :D
I'll try to add them, but I can't guarantee that I'll pull this up properly.
One way that I know is to change the paper size for those part. I'm not sure if this is the correct method, but I have put the frontispiece 1 image in a pdf with various page size (A4, A4 Extra, A3, A3 Extra, Tabloid, Tabloid Extra, and Super B). Perhaps one of these can solve this problem.||
Understood. So do I. Don't worry, take your time... But if you ask me, I prefer the first. But it's up to you. (I wonder about Dammitt's opinion though)
Ah~, that's a mistake in my part. Sorry. It's been corrected... But for adding my own name... it's kinda... embarrassing. (Well, it is embarrassing. Because I really don't do much at all) *Take a deep breath* But I'll try. -/-User753-Talk- 19:36, 11 August 2012 (CDT)
The second option is preferable, but, I guess, it's much more difficult to clean the illustrations and embed english text. So just do the way you like it. Dammitt (talk) 02:03, 12 August 2012 (CDT)
Well Japanese version is option 2, and I would have liked to preserve that. However, I tried embedding the English text after cleaning up... but I failed... miserably... T_T 1) I'm not yet halfway through, but I already filled up the whole 3 pages for frontispiece 3. 2) I tried making the text smaller, but decided it's already too small to be readable... 3)It just doesn't look good and so I resigned myself to the fact that I really have no talent in doing layouts. We can probably do option 2 if we use the same image multiple times, but option 1 is really much easier.
Finally! The proofreading and the author's notes are now finished, so the pdf can now be made with the edited text and images. Good luck!
Ella.servantes (talk) 02:36, 12 August 2012 (CDT)
Greetings Dammitt-san and Ella-san. Pdf of volume 6 is up. Thank you very much for your hard works.-/-User753-Talk- 22:22, 12 August 2012 (CDT)
Congratulations! At long last, a Kino no Tabi volume pdf is completed. Thank you all, Dammitt-san, Ella-san and User753-san, for making this happen.
Ah, maybe this is just me, but I'd like it better if each of the Frontispiece illustrations to be put after each of their respective Frontispieces. For example: The illustration of 3 Kinos should be put after its respective Frontispiece, that is "A Land of No Admittance"; the illustration of a random traveler/Shizu/Kino/Shishou/Deshi should be put after its respective Frontispiece, that is "An Unbiased Tale", and so on. Though if you prefer it this way, then I have no other complaints.
Anyway, thank you all again! BloodyKitty (talk) 00:21, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
Thank you very much. That's a good suggestion, but we'll have to wait for them.-/-User753-Talk- 01:40, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
Thank you, BloodyKitty! ^_^ I am also very happy with KnT's progress. I really hope that someday all of the volumes will get translated, whether it be in B-T's hands or somewhere else... *crosses fingers*
No, it's not just you. I was also wondering if the pictures should be put before or after the text. I really wish I could embed the English text on the pictures without making it look horrible... That was how it was supposed to be, but right now I haven't the power to do that...:P
Is it a good idea if I make the frontispiece illustrations into 'title pages'? I can at least embed the titles on the pictures. But if I do that, they'll have to go before the text and not after... is that ok?
User753! I found a way to make the pictures retain their correct sizes. I can splice the pdf easily with adobe acrobat afterwards.
Is it a good idea if I make the frontispiece illustrations into 'title pages'? I can at least embed the titles on the pictures. But if I do that, they'll have to go before the text and not after... is that ok?
I think this works better than my idea, I like it ^^. Btw, "A Tale of a Tank" has 2 illustrations. If the first illustration is chosen as the 'title page', then where should we put the second illustration? I think the second illustration portrays the tank leaving the forest, so it could go either after the Frontispiece or after the respective scene, which means after this part: The tank started to advance once again. While floating, it advanced forward, mowing down the trees in its path without reserve. It advanced perfectly straight ahead.. What do you think? BloodyKitty (talk) 09:19, 14 August 2012 (CDT)
Both ideas are good... If I guess it correctly, aren't these frontispiece stories actually inside the images? Perhaps (if they are) it'd be better to use the image as a 'title page' with additional images of each respective frontispiece as 'insert(s)'? As both of you suggests (combined).
@Ella: May I inquire about how that could be done? Since I only have Nitro PDF to do the job (smaller size. Though I'd like to do it on Acrobat too to compare) and I haven't try much of it's features.-/-User753-Talk- 11:18, 14 August 2012 (CDT)
That's really nice, BloodyKitty! I actually wanted to put the second picture in 'A Tale of a Tank' right after the frontispiece (the same way there are pictures right after the other chapters)
Yes, User753 that's right. That's why I would have wanted the text embedded. Well, it's decided then. I'll make the necessary edits. ^_^ Don't worry about the edits in the pdf, it won't take much time at all!
About that, the actual resizing of the pictures was actually done in MSWord. You just have to make custom paper sizes. Here's what I used:
For FRP1: 8.33 in by 15.64 in For FRP2: 8.33 in by 21.92 in
After that the picture has to be pasted onto word and resized to fit in the whole page. The document will then have to be printed to an adobe pdf file(I have adobe acrobat, so this option is automatically added to my MSWord)
I used Adobe Acrobat 8.0 Pro to delete the old pages and insert the new pages. I don't think this feature is available in adobe acrobat reader, I looked for it there but no luck... :(
Ah... when the page size for them are changed according to yours and compared in this, they're indeed better.(Although, this makes the image of Kino became smaller)
If it's already okay, I'll update the link on the main page with this one
p.s: It's already 10 downloads for the old version, 26 for the current version (and off course 0 for this comparison and next version candidate)-/-User753-Talk- 01:34, 15 August 2012 (CDT)
So you got the trick too. :D
Uhmm...not yet, I like to try BloodyKitty's suggestion, so we'll have to change the page order, plus I'll have to embed the titles on the frontispiece pages... I'll upload the frontispiece pages with titles tonight. After that you can update the pictures and change the page order. The page order will be like this:
Frontispiece 1 illustration
Frontispiece 1 text
Frontispiece 2 illustration
Frontispiece 2 text
Frontispiece 3 illustration 1 (the one two pages in width)
Frontispiece 3 text
Frontispiece 3 illustration 2 (the one w/ just one page)
Ooohh, it's nice to know there are actually people interested in the final product...^_^
Just following an example ^^.
Understood. Don't overwork yourself due to over-excitement please. And to Dammitt-san too. Considering that aside from his contributions to Kino no Tabi, he also start the Black Bullet's project, helping SAO& Date a Live in translation...
Whether this is day or night, have a nice day.-/-User753-Talk- 04:41, 15 August 2012 (CDT)
You sure learn fast... :D No, don't worry I still get enough sleep... LOL Right now, working on KnT is making me happy. Somehow, working on things I love makes me temporarily free from the world reflected by Kino's home country, 'The Land of Adults'. To quote the original Kino, Is being a 'perfect adult' just about being able to do things you hate?. Gosh, my addiction is already at a dangerous level...haha
Yeah, I heard about Dammitt too, I really think it's amazing of him to work on several series. I tried looking at the format of other light novels and get dizzy seeing how long the chapters usually are. I'm not really sure, but Kino no Tabi seems much easier to translate because of the short story quality... each chapter is a complete story on its own. Or maybe I'm already used to it... ^_^
Oh, I'm here to say that the frontispiece pictures with titles are up! You can include them now and do the edits with the page orders. I'm really sorry you had to redo the pdf again... I'm being slightly meticulous... a bad habit of mine is showing up again... ^^;
Ella.servantes (talk) 08:58, 15 August 2012 (CDT)
Well, the small size of chapters is a good thing, but in other novels the chapters are usually divided into several logical parts, so in the end it actually doesn't matter that much. On the other hand, the language in KnT is way easier compared to other novels. For example SAO is quite difficult because of great number of specific terms and rare kanjis. Well, for newbie like me, at least :|
Btw, Kino no Tabi also has long chapters – for instance, the one I'm translating now is 60 pages, "On the Beach" story from 8th volume is 120 pages and the last chapter in volume 10 is smth like 150 pages long :D
Dammitt (talk) 10:58, 15 August 2012 (CDT)
New version is up on the main page.
Thanks. Although it only happen occasionally.
I agree. Doing only the thing we hate hatefully and monotonously won't do much good, however necessary they are most of the time. But with enough 'breathing space/safe haven' that we can go on.
Good luck for both of you.-/-User753-Talk- 18:00, 15 August 2012 (CDT)
Thank you, User753 :D I was wondering if it was just me because I can't seem to download the pdf... It seems there was something wrong with the link... (apparently there was an extra 'l' in the url. I already fixed it... ^_^
Dammitt, if you're a newbie what am I called? LOL
I can't find the courage to translate 'On the Beach' because it's so long, plus it was already translated by untuned-strings... though it's from Korean T_T
Heeeh? There's a chapter longer than 'On the Beach'? I haven't really taken a look, but I did see a chapter with 3 insert illustrations in volume 10... hmm
Right, thanks for working on Volume 7's prologue-epilogue! I'm really excited to know how different it is from the movie (but I can't do it myself because I'm restraining myself from translating long chapters and straying from volumes 2-5... LOL)
Umm, in the newest pdf version, the size of Frontispiece 1 illustration seems to be gotten wrong, while the Frontispiece 2 illustration is correct.
BloodyKitty (talk) 06:31, 16 August 2012 (CDT)
Hello! Here's an updated version... ^_^ download
Now everything is perfect! Thank you for your effort!
Sorry for bugging you guys those last few days, even though I feel kinda bad since I've done nothing to contribute to the project. I did think of being an editor, but since Dammitt-san and User753-san are here, I'm afraid I would be redundant. And I still don't know much Japanese T_T. So I thought at least I could at least give you guys some advice to make the project better together. So I'm sorry if I'm bothering you guys too much. Good luck for all of you! ^^ BloodyKitty (talk) 08:54, 16 August 2012 (CDT)
@Ella: Thanks for those Ella. I honestly have no idea how I added the extra character. And for the new version (I didn't know what to do to fit the frontispiece 1 image page-size properly... And the size bulk-up from 6 to 9 mb unknowingly too). I'll change the link in KnT overview page to yours.
@BloodyKitty: Nope, I honestly think you don't bug anyone here at all. Any feedback is appreciated and more than welcome. More editor will mean more big helps, so please help us and this project whenever you can. As;objectively speaking, I can't possibly be online at all times (And I don't know about Japanese's kanji, hiragana, katakana, and the related things yet anyway .^^)
Sorry that I replied just now.(replying from cellphone is a pain, because I don't want to redo the embarrassing "Vaelis Accident" again.)
p.s: On a completely unrelated post-script, try view my 'contribution page' and view one related to Vaelis-san's talk page. That's one embarrassing accident alright. (Worse, I've seen it happens exactly like that in my dream before, but I just ignore/forgot it.)-/-User753-Talk- 13:14, 16 August 2012 (CDT)
You're welcome User753, oh, I don't know why the file size became bigger either... I only replaced one page in the 9mb version but it returned to 6mb again... uh, weird... Oh, right, I didn't change the main page link... I forgot... thanks! ^_^ It's understandable when people don't reply immediately. No one can possibly be online at all times (because we have to sleep, and being in front of your computer 24/7 means there's something wrong with your social life...0_0) Wha? Cellphone's a pain alright. It's hard to type and most especially to click. About Vaelis' talk page... oh, mistakes happen, good thing you can undo things in a wiki... ^^;
No, BloodyKitty, you're not bugging us or anything. I love how the pdf turned out, and part of it is because of your suggestion. Don't hesitate to correct any simple mistakes you see, I make some spelling and grammar errors because I usually am in a hurry when I translate and I don't proofread them before uploading them here. All help is appreciated! (Translators, too) :D
