User talk:OH&S

Season 1/2 Volumes Translation Fixing: Feedback Section

All feedback on my edits should go in this section.--OH&S (talk) 03:05, 8 January 2014 (CST)

Volume 1

Cthaeh 1

I may not be able to reply properly to further discussions at the moment, but here are my basic thoughts and some specific comments. --Cthaeh (talk) 19:45, 8 January 2014 (CST)

Furigana/Kanji

Given some of our pm’d discussions last year, my view here probably isn’t too surprising, but I don’t think a lot of the Kanji translations are necessary or relevant to include. You may have gone with the references form compared to the actual furigana template based on those earlier discussions, and it’s probably true that it’s less disruptive to reading this way. But there will still be some amount of disruption just from including references (the bolding also adds a little). The Kanji that I would consider relevant to readers are Illusion Destroyer (just because of Kamijou’s catchphrase “I’ll break/destroy your illusions”) and Church of Necessary Evil (because it is actually descriptive for something that can't be immediately gained from context).--Cthaeh (talk) 19:45, 8 January 2014 (CST)

If you want to take a more democratic approach, we’d really need to solicit some other’s opinions. The only way to include the information without any disruption would be to put it on a separate page (ie. in a table sorted by volume and chapter of appearance), where anyone interested could look up the Kanji for the chapter they just read or were about to read. But the fact you’ve done the work to put it in the page likely means you personally want to include it directly on the page. Also, I almost hate to mention it, but there is also a way that it could be made so that the references or furigana don’t or do appear depending on user preference (technically it would be two different pages, but the actual text for editing and such would only be on a single page). I really don’t like the idea of doing all that work, and I might prefer to leave things as is over that alternative. The one thing I might want that solution for is if you really wanted to put the actual furigana template instead of references. But ideally we would avoid doing a split preference/page solution. --Cthaeh (talk) 19:45, 8 January 2014 (CST)

Other comments
Other comments. --Cthaeh (talk) 19:45, 8 January 2014 (CST)

• I generally prefer to keep the references to explain things people wouldn’t know because they’re not Japanese, rather than they just might not know for other reasons. Therefore I would leave out things like the fact that true perfect memory doesn’t actually exist, since it’s just educating the readers about side-topics, rather than conferring something that was lost in translation. Another example would be the Latin; many readers may not know it, but that is unrelated to not being Japanese. Your new comments aren’t the only places this occurs, there’s quite a few references in later volumes that I would actually prefer to remove for that reason.
• Going back to the topic of perfect memory, I noticed you’ve changed that to “eidetic memory”, which is a proper name for the actual ability that occurs in the real world. This is an issue that I can’t really speak conclusively to without being a translator, but the way Index’s condition is described seems to exceed real-world eidetic memory. If the Japanese phrased used in the original isn’t the typical word for eidetic memory, then I might consider “perfect memory” to be a better translation because it doesn’t actually correspond to a real world phenomenon. Though this is all me guessing at the translation (based on your comment on Perfect Memorization Ability).

V1c1

• I don’t think adding in Index’s magic declaration is appropriate if it’s not the novel. The English novel readers won’t know it, but Kamichi didn’t consider it important enough to include in the novels so that’s fine. If you want to make it available to BT readers, then my preference would be to create a page for the Subete Guidebook translation.
• If Kamijou uses the word for police instead of “Anti-Skill”, then I think that should remain “police”. There was also an instance of ‘police’ to ‘Anti-Skill’ in c2 that I assume is the similar situation. (Also, if those were to remain as Anti-Skill, then I don’t think it is typically referred to as “the Anti-Skill”, so I’d say you’d remove ‘the’ from both those instances, but my primary opinion is that they be changed back to police).

V1c2

• I don’t think the romanji/pronunciations for magician and sorcerer are relevant information to include in the references, since that information isn’t relevant for reading the English language translation.
• I’ll just note that when I did my edits I used the upper case of Magic God, even though it went against my initial plans and general policy of matching js06’s lower case (I did that because nearly all but a couple of instances at the time were already upper case). At the time I did my edits, you commented in favor of upper case, so I was just a little surprised you switched to lower case here. I still support matching js06’s usage of lower case even though I didn’t do it, so I’m not complaining, but I was just a little surprised you did.

V1c3

• Lema vs Lama. Not commenting on the accuracy, just an fyi that there are 3 instances later in the series that should also be changed when you get to them.

OH&S 1

Thanks for the feedback Cthaeh.
Furigana/Kanji: I am in agreement that the whole furigana/kanji section needs revising. I think js06 would probably want to shrink the section as well. I know for sure that there are definite candidates for removal in the list. But, as you have already said, we should take a more democratic approach and wait for more people to comment.
Perfect vs Eidetic(Photographic): This is an interesting case. The terms are noticably different in Japanese. But the way that Index's ability is described and used in the series is the same for both definitions. Here is the defining scenario: A person with a very good memory will be able to view a never before seen text and then recite it word for word relatively easily. However, he will not be able to recite it backwards easily and after time he will have trouble remembering the text. A person with eidetic memory will be able to recite it backwards easily and not forget it. This is exactly what Index does in Volume 7 when trying to decode the Book of the Law. Unless there is some important distinction between Perfect Memory and Eidetic memory, I think the changes are justified.
Use of References + Specifc Example: It is my opinion that the notes should not be restricted to Japanese language quirks only but also extra information that provide context for the scenario. Though we need more feedback on this... In the specific case of perfect/eidetic memory, I personally found that knowing that there haven't been any verfied cases of eidetic memory greatly changed my understandings and opinions on the ways the characters acted in the novel. This only happened recently.
Dedicatus545: Strangely enough, Index does give her magic declaration in the exact same spot in the anime adaptation. Even though it is extra information, I believe in this case it is important enough to add in.
Police vs. Anti-Skill: js06 finds it suprising that Kamachi uses the term police here; as if he hadn't even thought of the term Anti-Skill until later. Strangely, the term Anti-Skill is given earlier in the chapter. I might have to double check with js06 to see if that term is police as well. In the end it comes down to this: Do we change something that we most definitely know is an error on the author's part or do we keep the error in? My position on this is to correct the error and make a translation note of it, as I did with Limen/Ars Magna in Chapter 2. Unless police is an informal name for Anti-Skill...
Magician/Sorcerer Pronounciation: OK. In hindsight, I think I will remove that.
Magic God Capitalisation: I brushed up on capitalization rules and had a change of heart.
Lama vs Lema: After researching the language used and viewing the orignal Japanese of the term, I am certain that Lema is correct. Unless someone beats me to it, I can change those whenever I get up to it.

Ultranova17 1

I wasn't really planning on commenting, since most of the changes look good to me, but I may as well leave something here anyway. -Ultranova17 (talk) 22:19, 19 February 2014 (CST)

Kanji/Furigana: I'm a bit divided on this. On one hand, I think having the Kanji for all the Furigana terms would be a nice thing to see. On the other hand, I'm not really keen on having it like a reference on each page. I do think the current way is far, far better than that Furigana thing BT has that tries to mimic the Japanese text. The only issue I see is that there are a lot of reference notes, which can break up the flow of reading. I like the idea of only having the most relevant Kanji terms in the references on the page, and then creating a new separate page where every term can be listed by volume. That way, users can get relevant info while reading with only a minimum amount of disruptions, and if they are interested enough, they can visit the page for more in-depth information.

As for mistakes by Kamachi, like police/Anti-Skill, I like the idea of changing it and adding a reference about it, but I think it should only be done if we are absolutely sure it's a mistake. I feel like both Anti-Skill and Limen Magna are good changes.

On a minor note, are you sure "century" should be capitalized? Doing a quick Google search shows that Chicago Style recommends it be lowercase.

OH&S 2

Thank you Ultranova17 for your feedback. Century Capitalization: As I have learnt and checked, century is capitalized if the word is used like a name as in the 4th Century. Feedback on correcting mistakes: I agree entirely with what you say. Kanji/Furigana: I think that in these earlier volumes there will be a lot of references. However, later volumes probably won't have as much. For example, I don't think that NT Volume 9 has any words that would need it. Its really only for the first use of the word in the series. I still feel like hearing js06's opinion on this but only after Volume 2 gets a facelift (which I suspect will take quite a while)

More feedback is appreciated.--OH&S (talk) 04:38, 21 February 2014 (CST)

It doesn't seem that there are people who actually care enough about the edits to give feedback. Since I don't want to make these changes permanent without some more feedback (no, 1 for and 1 against isn't enough), and said feedback isn't coming, I might as well just let js06 have the final word; after all, his preferences should hold more meaning than a mere editor.--OH&S (talk) 04:18, 9 February 2014 (CST)