Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi:Volume1 Chapter1

Translator's Notes

Cookie tin

They drew their new seat positions from a ハトサブレの缶 (Hatosabure no KAN).

Kamakura is famous for a biscuit called Hatosabure (鳩サブレー), a biscuit shaped like a pigeon. Sold next to Kamakura station and a very popular omiyage (souvenir) among the Japanese.

Toshimaya is a shop that sells many kinds of sweets. "Hato" (鳩) means dove in English and "sabure" (サブレ) is "sable" in French. Children loved the many white pigeons in Kamakura, so the owner of Toshimaya named the cookie "hatosabure."

Info from: WikiTravel Ryoko's Homepage Images

--GDsMDDLFNGR 03:44, 27 May 2006 (PDT)

Open Translation Issues

...May arrives...

Previous discussion moved to the forum. Click here to view: (ch 1) ...May Arrives...

Frankly, topics like what dreams people have, or how amazing or cute someone's pet is are, in my book, are some of the dullest topics in the world.

Previous discussion moved to the forum. Click here to view: (ch 1) Frankly, topics like what dreams people have, or how

But, just as I was still part of this class, there were always people who wanted to talk to the eyebrow-locking, mouth-scowling Haruhi.

Previous discussion moved to the forum. Click here to view: (ch 1) But, just as I was still part of this class, there w

the only explanation I could give was that I was going nuts - by the time I realized it, I found myself talking to Suzumiya Haruhi.

Previous discussion moved to the forum. Click here to view: '(ch 1) the only explanation I could give was that I was goi

She always has this aspiration that she would soon meet the supernatural world that I abandoned long ago, and she enthusiastically tries to achieve her dream.

(alt translation from Cruzz's site.)

Even now, she's eagerly waiting for that chance meeting with the paranormal, something I gave up on a long time ago. And she's certainly taking an active approach at it.

I can't really comment meaning-wise on either one. I believe Cruzz's runs more smoothly in English -- the only thing I'd change is "approach at it" to "approach to it."

--The naming game 13:47, 1 May 2006 (PDT)

Cruzz's version does seem more fluid.

:I can't really comment meaning-wise on either one. I believe Cruzz's runs more smoothly in English -- the only thing I'd change is "approach at it" to "approach to it."

Your change seems to enhance the flow of the sentence so I think we should go with that.

--Da~Mike 00:57, 7 May 2006 (GMT)

I've made some modifications to this section, based mostly on TLG's original text rather than what was here. Please look it over and make any further improvements necessary.

--BlckKnght 13:24, 30 May 2006 (PDT)

"Kyon, we are good friends right...?"

The paragraph's around the quote above have be rather confused. Here's the whole section:

"Please."

She put her palms together and asked sincerely. Faced with her request, I could only give vague responses like "erm", "ahh...". Asakura took that as a yes and showed her yellow-tulip-like smile, and then went back to the other girls. After seeing that the other girls were looking at me, my heart fell to the bottom of a canyon.

"Kyon, we are good friends right...?"

Taniguchi stared at me suspiciously and asked: "What the hell is going on here?" Even Kunikida, with his eyes closed and arms crossed on his chest, nodded.

Oh my god! Why am I surrounded by a bunch of idiots?

I'm rewriting this as:

"Please?" she asked sincerely, putting her palms together.

Faced with her request, I could only give vague responses like "erm", "ahh...". Asakura took that as a yes and showed her yellow-tulip-like smile, and then went back to the other girls. After seeing that the other girls were looking at me, my heart fell to the bottom of a canyon.

"Kyon, we are good friends right...?" Taniguchi asked, stareding at me suspiciously.

"What the hell is going on here?"

Even Kunikida, with his eyes closed and arms crossed on his chest, nodded.

Oh my god! Why am I surrounded by a bunch of idiots?

I've changed the attribution of one of the lines of dialogue, as it doesn't make sense to me that Taniguchi would ask "What the hell is going on here?". Rather, he wants to have some of Kyon's sudden popularity with the girls rub off on him. (Of course he later goes the other way, not wanting Kyon to pass on the "Haruhi virus" to him.) Have I misunderstood the situation? Could somebody with the Japanese novel confirm my new version? There are probably a few other confusing passages caused by similar structure where a quote is separated from the attribution in an unnatural way. Some of them work, but others don't.

--BlckKnght 13:24, 30 May 2006 (PDT)

Reordering of a couple lines in chapter 1

"You mean the alien stuff?"

Kunikida, who was busy picking bones out of his fried fish, butted in:

"Yeah that. Even back in junior high she always said and did lots of weird stuff. For example there was this school vandalization incident!"

This is a minor problem, particularly in english but presumably not Japanese, the logical order would be that the statement would be after the colon. This would have confused english readers into thinking that Kunikuda was "butting in" recollection of Haruhi's past school life and consequently make no logical sense up till the break to the next scene. So I propose that order in which the lines come in be changed around so that it would show:

Kunikida, who was busy picking bones out of his fried fish, butted in: "You mean the alien stuff?"

"Yeah that. Even back in junior high she always said and did lots of weird stuff. For example there was this school vandalization incident!"

When I first read Chapter 1, this section bothered me quite a bit.

edit2: I am sorry about making a new section in the discussion panel, I did not recognize the preferred format at first.

--Jayohz 12:50, 1 June 2006 (PDT)

Hmm, an alternative might be to do away with the colon all together and just rearrange the attribution to:

"You mean the alien stuff?" Kunikida butted in, while busily picking bones out of his fried fish.

It could perhaps be fixed with even less rewording (just changes to punctuation):

"You mean the alien stuff?" Kunikida—busily picking the bones from his fried fish—butted in.

--BlckKnght 13:41, 1 June 2006 (PDT)

Any one of those is fine but I suppose the one that is closest to the original Japanese would be the most correct and efficiently translated. So, if there is a colon in the original text, it might be just best to leave it. Another option would be to adopt the most simplest form--the narrator is supposedly 15-- so either rearranging the order or BlckKnght's first choice would be preferable.

--Jayohz 20:27, 1 June 2006 (PDT)

Nitpick over instant versus period of time

"When did you notice?"

Her tone was so cold that it was as if she was talking to a rock on the side of the road.

I paused for a while to think about it.

"Hmm... for a while."

This should IMO be "Hmm... a while back", as she asked "when", which is an instant in time, not "how long".

202.147.107.2 04:21, 14 July 2006 (PDT)

Resolved Issues

Suzumiya Haruhi's language

This is mostly about thelastguardian's translation of Haruhi using "kick ass". Psieye toned it down to "awesome". Although I am personally against using strong language, if this same crude language is present in the original Japanese, I won't complain keeping the "kick ass." -- Baltakatei 01:22, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

Cruzz used the word "radical" for that passage. It certainly seems the best choice but his whole style is different so perhaps "radical" isn't what we're seeking here for this translation's style. Psieye 23:44, 19 April 2006 (GMT)

I guess I'll jump in to say something. The original japanese line is:

高校にはもっとラディカルなサークルがあると思ってたのに。 Koukou ni wa motto radikaruna saakuru ga aru to omotteta no ni.

As such, I never even considered any other words except "radical". It covers both bases, and frankly I'd be willing to bet that the line is mostly referring to actual radicalness (differing from a norm).

--Cruzz 10:21, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

No excuse here. I was being radical. Personally I feel that this translation corresponds closest to the actual undertone of the phase.

I wanted to go for the really literal route- what an English speaker may say in that situation.

--Thelastguardian 14:53, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

"Normal humans don't interest me. If anyone here is an alien, from the future, from a different dimension, or an esper, then come find me! That is all."

On one of SH's official wallpapers, the line is translated as the following in the ever so amusing Engrish style- man of doesn't have the interest. Please come to me If you are Alien, TimeTraveler, Another world person, ESP. That's it... --Thelastguardian 14:46, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

The fansub for the anime translates the equivalent line to something quite similar, so it seems pretty accurate, to me. --Ryukaiser 16:53, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

She didn't carry a lunch box, so I guessed she went to the cafeteria to enjoy her lunch

I changed "guessed" to "had assumed" - it seems a bit clearer to me, but still seems awkward. (I'd have left it as "had guessed", but that sounds even worse.) --Ryukaiser 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Is the "had" really necessary in "had assumed"? Why not just "so I assumed she went to the cafeteria..."? It's simpler and carries the same message. --Baltakatei 23:06, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Well, to me, since the story is narrated in past tense, just "I assumed" could cause some confusion, as it kind of implies he did so throughout the story, while "had assumed" says he did so at that time. The latter seems to be more accurate, to me. Others may disagree, though. --Ryukaiser 23:24, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I see what you mean. The "had" is a good choice. --Baltakatei 23:34, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I suddenly want to see her hairstyle on Sunday.

This phrase bothers me a bit. From what I can tell, as he is narrating the story / remembering the events, he suddenly gets really curious about what her hair looked like on Sunday (which is very understandable). So, it should probably be in present tense, like it already is. What bothers me, though, is that Kyon should know, as he's relating events from the past, that she stops following that pattern, so, while his want is in the present, what he wants to see is something from the past. The best I can do to make it sound better is "I suddenly want to see what her hair would have looked like on a Sunday." but I don't know. What does anyone else think? --Ryukaiser 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Hmm, I automatically assumed that he got that urge to see her Sunday hair when he first figured out the pattern. Your interpretation works too though... either way I guess this phrase does need changing, but which way? --Psieye 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I had assumed that as well, but now that Ryukaiser mentions it, I think it should go to with the "would have looked like" thing. I guess we need to see the original translation to really tell? --Adelina 10:44, 21 April 2006 (CST)

I agree with using the present tense in Kyon's musings about the hair styles. I think the "would have looked like" phrase works well without having the original Japanese on hand. --Baltakatei 23:12, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Now that more chapters have been translated and edited, it appears that the earlier speculations that Kyon's narrative in the past tense only covers up to the point by which the SOS Brigade was performed, though where exactly, I haven't read thoroughly enough to ascertain.

In any case, this minor issue can be resolved now and I propose a substitute for the current sentence used:

• The original

As the day of the week increased, so would the number of her ponytails; by next Monday, the whole process would start again. I couldn't see why she was doing it. Following the previous logic, she should have had six ponytails on Sunday... I suddenly want to see her hairstyle on Sunday.

• My suggestion

As the day of the week increased, so would the number of her ponytails; by next Monday, the whole process would start again. I couldn't see why she was doing it. Following this logic, she should have had six ponytails on Sunday... I suddenly want to see what her hair would've looked like on Sunday.

--Da~Mike 01:20, 7 May 2006 (GMT)

It is as if to her, the guys are pumpkins or potato sacks, and she couldn't care less.

The ever-present tense issue. Have we come to a consensus about what tense these kind of phrases should be in? I changed it to past tense because, well, the description relates to her actions in the past. She may or may not still think that, but the actions which gave him that impression happened in the past. --Ryukaiser 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I think we need to ascertain one thing first before we can discuss what should and shouldn't be in present tense - what is 'the present' for Kyon's narration? As in, is he telling this story years after the end of all possible Suzumiya Haruhi novels or is he living out his experiences as the novels get written? I'm inclined to think the latter - specifically that 'the present' for Kyon for Chapter 1 is a few days after the SOS-dan was formed. As in, chapter 1 is about him recounting the backstory up to his 'present time' of being in the newly formed SOS-dan.

Using my assumption above, it's easy to say that the above phrase should stay as "It's as if to her, guys are..." Question is, how valid is my assumption of when 'the present' is? --Psieye 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

What is that girl trying to pull?

Kyon should know by now what she was up to, as he asks her about it later, so just changing it to past tense won't work. On the other hand, none of Kyon's other dialogue has anything like "I said" or "I wondered" or whatever, so it is difficult to make it clear that it is something he wondered at the time. I have no idea what to do with this one. --Ryukaiser 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Mayhaps a complete rephrasing to something like "Her actions were so enigmatic" or "Her motives were an unfathomable mystery"? --Psieye 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Heh "unfathomable"... IMHO, I believe the phrase is fine as it is. The reader doesn't know what Haruhi was doing so Kyon is politely expressing his wonder at the time without giving any spoilers. Also, since large illustrations are used to accompany each page, I believe that the novel tries to involve the reader as much as possible. When I read the passage in question, I imagined seeing an illustration of Haruhi grinning mischeviously from Kyon's point of view. Maybe such thoughts stem from my exposure to the animated version of the novel. --Baltakatei 23:46, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

What the hell does Earth want?! If this continues I would get Yellow Fever!

Another of Kyon's internal dialogues. The second part should probably be "If this continued, I would get Yellow Fever!" and I changed it as such, but I have no idea what to do with the first. --Ryukaiser 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I took it simply as a figure of speech, an exclaimation. If we are to change that first part, try to find a more familiar exclaimation I guess: e.g. just shortening it to "What the hell?" --Psieye 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I'm amused at the "What the hell does Earth want?!" It's not a phrase you hear often or at all. It also doesn't sound like something a translator can make up. --Baltakatei 00:05, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

It's a pretty accurate translation of the original text, which is:

地球はいったい何がやりたいんだろう。黄熱病にでもかかってるんじゃないか。

chikyuu wa ittai nani ga yaritain darou. ounetsubyou ni demo kakatterun ja nai ka.

I take it to mean that Kyon is anthropomorphizing the Earth, as an entity that is actively out to get him, by deliberately placing weather and natural obstacles in his path.

As for the Yellow Fever thing? Well, either he means "jaundice" (although that would be 黄疸 oudan), or we can chalk it down to the rather unscientific (superstitious, even) Japanese attitude to disease and health issues. Yellow Fever is a contagious disease that is spread to humans by infected mosquitos in tropical regions, but in Japan there is still an almost 19th century-ish belief that contagious diseases can arise from exertion or exhaustion. It's amusing, really -- I'm a medical historian, and I see this sort of thing all the time, in European texts from the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries.

--Freak Of Nature 03:17, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

I'm sure that readers will be just as confused as we editors were with this, but now we have an explanation it's much clearer. I think we should have a page for translator's notes so that the readers and editors won't be so confused. --Adelina 07:22, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

Agreed. Somewhere to explain references that can be lost across the cultures is necessary - we're translating across cultures as well as languages afterall.

--Psieye 09:37, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

Incidentally, I believe "the world" has the same role in English as "the Earth" seems to have in Japanese. To wit:

It seems like the world is against me, sometimes.

-- a perfectly colloquial English sentence.

As for "Yellow Fever" ... "nervous breakdown"? At least that fits the exertion/exhaustion criteria, mostly because it's an exact medical match. Still, just from the previous information, nervous breakdowns seem to be referenced in English similarly to the usage of Yellow Fever in Japanese. A link to translation notes would be good in any case, since it was an interesting bit of trivia.

--The naming game 11:29, 8 May 2006 (PDT)

I think "nervous breakdown/exhaustion" (or just "collapse from exhaustion") is a perfectly acceptable change to make. The Yellow Fever remark would not carry all the appropriate connotations for an English reader, whereas prostration or exhaustion would.

--Freak Of Nature 13:33, 8 May 2006 (PDT)

While your interpretation is perfectly fine, I must say that I do agree with The naming game rather strongly in that it would be a shame to omit the bit of trivia regarding Japanese superstitions. Hence, I would also suggest keeping the original form of "yellow fever" or a suitable substitute whilst adding a translation note regarding it, explaining the reason for using the term "yellow fever" and its correlation to Japanese superstition.

--Da~Mike 23:02, 8 May 2006 (GMT)

He lay his sports jacket on his shoulders; his shirt is wrinkled throughout his chest.

I am guessing the first part should be "His sports jacket layed on his shoulders," and I've changed it to that. I am not sure what to do with the second part, though. --Ryukaiser 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I suggest "shirt was wrinkled across his chest" *makes that minor edit* --Psieye 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

"across" is a good word to use. I concur. --Baltakatei 00:07, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

The passage in question (on page 26 of the novel) is:

「よ、キョン」

後ろから肩を叩かれた。谷口だった。

ブレザーをだらしなく肩に引っかけ、ネクタイをよれよれに結んだニヤケ面で、

「ゴールデンウィークはどっか行ったか？」

__

"Hey, Kyon."

From behind, somebody clapped me on the shoulder. It was Taniguchi.

His blazer hung slovenly on his shoulders, his necktie was wrinkled and skewed to one side.

"Where did you go for Golden Week?"

__

I've taken the liberty of making this correction in the text. --Freak Of Nature 15:38, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

My grandma was the one who first called me that.

『最初に言い出だしたのは叔母の一人だったように記憶している。』

My mistake. I used the Chinese edition to translate and it was a mistake. The original Japanese version says "one of my aunts". I checked the Japanese volume to make sure it says aunts.

Found on MegaTokyo. Strangely enough no one tried to correct the mistake. I really hope people just correct it- if you notice the mistake, correct it.

--Thelastguardian 02:41, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

As this and that was happening -- although it was always Haruhi at the center of it all -- May arrived.

(alt translation from Cruzz's site.)

In the middle of this and that happening, well, the one doing this and that was no other than Haruhi, May arrived.

I wasn't clear on "this and that" referring to Haruhi's craziness, until I read Cruzz's translation. So perhaps a rephrase could emphasize that part?

Possible change:

As this and that was happening -- and it was always Haruhi at its center, causing it all -- May arrived.

--The naming game 13:47, 1 May 2006 (PDT)

I didn't realize there was already a discussion of this phrase on the talk page. I didn't recognize it when skimming the titles because the wording had changed greatly.

--The naming game 20:41, 3 May 2006 (PDT)

I pressed my numbing back head and turned around slowly.

(alt translation from Cruzz's site.)

Turning back forward holding my ringing head, ...

Suggested change:

I turned back slowly, holding my ringing head.

--The naming game 13:47, 1 May 2006 (PDT)

I re-read the passage where this line originated from and unless we re-structure that passage, the only changes that are suitable are ones that stick with the raw translation noted above. I've given it quite a bit of thought and I've found it impossible to use a sentence that seems more coherent than the raw translation, given the order that the passage has been written in. Thus, here's my suggestion to re-structuring the passage:

• The original

Haruhi finally let go of my collar. I pressed my numbing back head and turned around slowly. I noticed that the whole class looked totally awestruck. The freshly-graduated newbie teacher, with her chalk in her hand, stared at me and looked as if she was ready to cry.

• My suggestion

Haruhi finally let go of my collar. Whilst massaging the back of my head, which was now throbbing, I turned around slowly, only to find that the whole class was completely dumbstruck. The freshly-graduated fledgling teacher, with a chalk in her hand, stared at me and looked as if she was about to cry.

I note that since this is one of my suggestions, a change like mine may not be "like a needle in a hay stack". I invite anyone else to have an attempt at changing this. Hopefully someone might come up with a suggestion that will meld in perfectly with the rest of the text.

--Da~Mike 00:53, 7 May 2006 (GMT)

I've made a change here, based a bit off of the discussion here. Please take a look and edit more if needed.

--BlckKnght 13:24, 30 May 2006 (PDT)

...all the tables were moved out into the corridor...

My knowledge of the contents of Japanese classrooms is limited to what I've seen in various School animes, but it seems to me that "tables" should be changed to "desks" in the paragraph:

"Once I came to the classroom in the morning and discovered that all the tables were moved out to the corridor, or that there were printed stars on the school roof. Another time she was going around the school posting curse papers all over the place...you know, those Chinese vampire ones where you put the paper talisman on a vampire's forehead. I just can't understand her."

If this is a language issue (i.e. Japanese does not distinguish between desks and tables in the same way as English) then it might be worth looking at other places the word "table" is used to see if the same change would be appropriate there too. Any thoughts?

--BlckKnght 23:25, 3 May 2006 (PDT)

From my knowledge of both Japanese and Mandarin chinese, unlike English, there is no clear distinction between desks and tables.

For the sake of making clear distinctions between a certain type of object, as there would be in English, I think we should adapt the translations according to the context. So for the case of a class room, the translation for "table" should be interpreted as "desk", and so on so forth.

Please proceed and make the changes as you deem suitable regarding this topic.

--Da~Mike 00:30, 7 May 2006 (GMT)

Taniguchi had probably experienced the same thing himself. =

I'm not sure if I understand this sentance correctly in the current version. Kyon thinks that Taniguchi was one of the guys Haruhi dumped?

If so, I suggest a change to something like:

Taniguchi seemed to be speaking from experience.

--BlckKnght 23:29, 3 May 2006 (PDT)

Compared to the original translation, your suggestion seems to be better BlckKnght. I think it is simply because the original of "Taniguchi had probably experienced the same thing himself." could imply that he was dumped but not neccessarily by Haruhi whereas with "Taniguchi seemed to be speaking from experience.", it becomes obvious that he got the "5-minute dump" from Haruhi.

I think the change would suit the context better.

--Da~Mike 00:25, 7 May 2006 (GMT)

Well, that's the question: Did Taniguchi actually get dumped by Haruhi, or does Kyon merely consider such a possibility?

Maybe something more like "Was Taniguchi speaking from experience?" would preserve the ambiguity. Could a translator take a look at that section?

--BlckKnght 06:37, 8 May 2006 (PDT)

Although both our suggested interpretations would connotate the same thing (that Kyon would be guessing that Taniguchi got dumped by Haruhi), the degree by which he would be doing so is not as strong in your suggested interpretation. By this, I mean that this sentence "Taniguchi seemed to be speaking from experience." implies that Kyon would be inclined to assume that Taniguchi got dumped whereas "Was Taniguchi speaking from experience?" impies that Kyon is largely unsure whether he was dumped by Haruhi.

Again, the actual source text would be invaluable to decide which would suit the context better.

However, if I had to choose which sentence would suit Kyon as a character, I would think the sentence "Taniguchi seemed to be speaking from experience." would fit the cynical and sarcastic nature of Kyon much better than "Was Taniguchi speaking from experience?", which would be something a "nicer person" would think to themselves, such as a character like Mikuru.

--Da~Mike 21:56, 8 May 2006 (GMT)

I made the change, using the first (non-questioning) form.

--BlckKnght 13:24, 30 May 2006 (PDT)

People with average grades

Anyway, everyone in this school came from one of the four junior high schools in the city. People with average grades. This, of course, includes East Junior High; therefore there should have been people who graduated with Haruhi, who knew what her silence symbolized.

The "people with average grades" sentence is incomplete and seems disconnected from its context. Was something accidentally edited out...?

That part is in parentheses and seems to modify the part right before it, meaning the students who go to their high school are the average ones. Maybe the two should be combined to avoid looking like a fragment?

I suggest just putting that part in parentheses like in the original. And for reference, here's that part:

　このように一瞬にしてカラス全員のハートをいろんな意味でキャッチした涼宮ハルヒだが、翌日以降しばらくは割とおとなしく一見無害な女子高生を演じていた。

　嵐の前の静けさ、という言葉の意味が今の俺にはやく解る。

　いや、この高校に来るのは、もともと市内の四つの中学校出身の生徒たち（成績が普通レベルの奴ら）ばかりだし、東中もその中に入っていたから、涼宮ハルヒと同じ中学から進学した奴らもいるわけで、そんな彼らにしてみればこいつの雌伏状態が何かの前兆であることに気付いていたんだろうが、あいにく俺は東中に知り合いがいなかったしクラスの誰も教えてくれなかったから、スットンキョー自己紹介から数日後、忘れもしない朝のホームルームが始まる前だ。涼宮ハルヒに話しかけるという愚の骨頂なことを俺はしでかしてしまった。

--GDsMDDLFNGR 10:24, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

Hmm, I don't think parentheses are appropriate in the translation as it is currently written. Leaving the fragment would work, since dialogue—in this case, internal dialog—is less formal than other writing. Maybe a comma or dash would be best to get rid of the fragment.

Speaking of dashes, we should probably go through the text and try to standardize our use of dashes. I know a few places they have been put in as single hyphens (-) and sometimes as two hyphens (--). There is also inconsistant spacing around them that should be standardized: where American style prints an em dash without any spaces, European style substitutes an en dash with spaces on each side. Also, I think that some clauses that currently seperated with commans should instead use dashes to add emphasis or to clearly separate clauses with internal commas (such as my sentance above).

For reference, I typed in the dashes in the first of my paragraphs above using an HTML named entity (—), but entering the unicode character directly (—) is "cleaner" in some respects. Using a numeric entity (—) will render correctly in browsers that do not support the others (Netscape 4.x for example), but is ugly and hard to understand in the source code.

--BlckKnght 00:35, 27 May 2006 (PDT)

For a guy at least.

The following paragraph has some very strange puncuation to try to tie together a sentance structure that simply does not work in english:

Who would dare to confess face-to-face to a girl who obviously looks down on him? - For a guy at least. They lost their gut just from your expression! I keep on trying to guess what those guys were thinking as I respond to Haruhi.

Any ideas on how to rephrase it?

--BlckKnght 01:40, 27 May 2006 (PDT)

Here's the original:

　虫でも見るような目つきを前にして重大な―少なくとも本人にとっては―打ち明けごとをする気になれなかっただろう男の気分をトレースしながら一応俺は同意しておいた。

...my rough translation:

I can agree with those guys. Making such an important ― for them, at least ― confession in front of someone who would look at you like you were a worm would probably make anyone feel uneasy.

--GDsMDDLFNGR 11:15, 28 May 2006 (PDT)

At the end I got the second to last seat of the court-facing windowside column.

I'd like to reword the sentance above, but I don't have a good idea of what to do. I think "court-facing" and "windowside" both need to go, but the question is, what to replace them with. Ideas?

--BlckKnght 01:40, 27 May 2006 (PDT)

Maybe something like "second-to-last seat next to the window, overlooking the courtyard." Here's the original:

中庭に面した窓際後方二番目

--GDsMDDLFNGR 03:17, 27 May 2006 (PDT)

I've rewritten this sentance. Thanks for the explanation GDsMDDLFNGR!

--BlckKnght 13:24, 30 May 2006 (PDT)

...released the 50-ton bomb

I'm curious about the phrase Kyon uses to describe Haruhi's introduction. He compares it to releasing a 50-ton bomb. That seems strange to me, as 50 tons is tremendously heavy. I dug around a bit and found two possible bombs he could be referring to:

1. The first Hydrogen bomb—code named "Ivy Mike" and detonated by the United States in 1952—was an enormous device housed in a 2-story building on Enewetak Atoll in the Marshal Islands (its detonation totally destroyed the island of Elugelab). A large number of sources on the internet say that it weighed 50 tons (though Wikipedia suggests it was actually around 82 tons).
2. The reference could be to a 50 megaton bomb. That is the approximate yield of largest nuclear bomb ever to be detonated (or built). Commonly known as the Tsar Bomba, it was built and droped on Novaya Zemlya island in the Arctic Ocean by the USSR in 1961. Its primary purpose was as a Cold War political stunt, since at 8 meters long and weighing 27 metric tons, it was too large to be a practical weapon.

Could somebody check the original book to see if the translation is correct (ie, tons vs megatons)? While it is possible the reference is to Ivy Mike (especially with Japanese society having very high awareness of US nuclear testing in the Pacific), such a large bomb could not ever be "released" from anything. It was a building constructed on an island, not a bomb that could be dropped from a plane, so the usage seems to be a mistake (though it is entirely possible that it is either Kyon or Tanigawa-sensei who made the mistake, rather than the translator).

BlckKnght 09:21, 27 May 2006 (PDT)

Funny you should note this... I also felt weird about this line and looked it up. Here's the original:

　頭でひねっていた最低限のセリフを何とか噛まずに言い終え、やるべきことをやったという解放感に包まれながら俺は着席した。替わりに後ろの奴が立ち上がり―ああ、俺は生涯このことを忘れないだろうな―後々語り草となる言葉をのたまった。

Which translates to something like:

After I managed to finish my carefully thought-out, minimal-length introduction without stumbling over my words somewhat, I sat down, tucked in that feeling of relief you get after having done something you had to do. The person behind me stood up for her turn and―ah I probably won't forget this for the rest of my life―said the words that would be the topic of conversation for a long time.

--GDsMDDLFNGR 12:04, 27 May 2006 (PDT)

I thought about it some more and need some clarification... the original text used 噛 (to bite, chew, gnaw), so it's literally "without chewing my words." I put in "mumbling" for now. Any suggestions?

(Clarified - 噛む also has a slang meaning of saying something incorrectly, or getting a line wrong; updated the above translation accordingly)

--GDsMDDLFNGR 21:42, 27 May 2006 (PDT)

I've rewritten the passage, loosely based on your translation. Thanks!

--BlckKnght 13:24, 30 May 2006 (PDT)

Grammar Corrections

A Few minor corrections I thought I'd leave here. I probably would not have caught them if I my English teacher last year hadn't always take off a full point per grammar/spelling mistake.

"At the end he/she could only say "I see...then I will just...", and ask themselves..."

-Here it is probably fine to leave he/she because it is a translation (showing the victims to be both male and female), but 'he' is the standard for a pronoun with a gender unknown. But, you should change "themselves" to "himself or herself" (or himself/herself to match with your slash usage before. You may also want to use "or" instead of a slash in the future because the slash in this place is non-standard usage and probably would not be used in a book.)

"Therefore when I came to school the next day and discovered that instead of tying three ponytails, Haruhi had cut her long and slender hair short, I felt quite depressed".

-You need a comma after "therefore" because "when I.... ponytails" is a separate clause and "Therefore" is part of the clause "I felt quite depressed".

" But none of it is possible— no aliens, time travelers, or supernatural powers exist in this world. Okay, let's say they do exist. They wouldn't just appear right in front of us humble citizens and say, “Hello, I'm actually an alien.” "THAT'S WHY!"

- Okay, this part is a bit confusing to me. Does the narrator actually Say the first paragraph above out loud? If so, you need quotes, one before "But" (the one up there is one I added to quote text) and another after "alien."

That's all I found, keep up the great work.