Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi:Volume1 Chapter1

Translator's Notes

Cookie tin

They drew their new seat positions from a ハトサブレの缶 (Hatosabure no KAN).

Kamakura is famous for a biscuit called Hatosabure (鳩サブレー), a biscuit shaped like a pigeon. Sold next to Kamakura station and a very popular omiyage (souvenir) among the Japanese.

Toshimaya is a shop that sells many kinds of sweets. "Hato" (鳩) means dove in English and "sabure" (サブレ) is "sable" in French. Children loved the many white pigeons in Kamakura, so the owner of Toshimaya named the cookie "hatosabure."

Info from: WikiTravel Ryoko's Homepage Images

--GDsMDDLFNGR 03:44, 27 May 2006 (PDT)

Open Translation Issues

The previous discussions have been moved to the forum. Click on the following links to view them.

• ...May Arrives...

• Frankly, topics like what dreams people have, or how amazing or cute someone's pet is are, in my book, are some of the dullest topics in the world.

• But, just as I was still part of this class, there were always people who wanted to talk to the eyebrow-locking, mouth-scowling Haruhi.

• the only explanation I could give was that I was going nuts - by the time I realized it, I found myself talking to Suzumiya Haruhi.

• She always has this aspiration that she would soon meet the supernatural world that I abandoned long ago, and she enthusiastically tries to achieve her dream.

• "Kyon, we are good friends right...?"

• Reordering of a couple lines in chapter 1

• Nitpick over instant versus period of time

Resolved Issues

Suzumiya Haruhi's language

Previous discussion moved to the forum. Click here to view: Suzumiya Haruhi's language

"Normal humans don't interest me. If anyone here is an alien, from the future, from a different dimension, or an esper, then come find me! That is all."

Previous discussion moved to the forum. Click here to view: "Normal humans don't interest me. If anyone here is an alien, from the future, from a different dimension, or an esper, then come find me! That is all."

She didn't carry a lunch box, so I guessed she went to the cafeteria to enjoy her lunch

Previous discussion moved to the forum. Click here to view: She didn't carry a lunch box, so I guessed she went to the cafeteria to enjoy her lunch

I suddenly want to see her hairstyle on Sunday.

Previous discussion moved to the forum. Click here to view: I suddenly want to see her hairstyle on Sunday.

It is as if to her, the guys are pumpkins or potato sacks, and she couldn't care less.

Previous discussion moved to the forum. Click here to view: It is as if to her, the guys are pumpkins or potato sacks, and she couldn't care less.

What is that girl trying to pull?

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What the hell does Earth want?! If this continues I would get Yellow Fever!

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He lay his sports jacket on his shoulders; his shirt is wrinkled throughout his chest.

I am guessing the first part should be "His sports jacket layed on his shoulders," and I've changed it to that. I am not sure what to do with the second part, though. --Ryukaiser 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I suggest "shirt was wrinkled across his chest" *makes that minor edit* --Psieye 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

"across" is a good word to use. I concur. --Baltakatei 00:07, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

The passage in question (on page 26 of the novel) is:

「よ、キョン」

後ろから肩を叩かれた。谷口だった。

ブレザーをだらしなく肩に引っかけ、ネクタイをよれよれに結んだニヤケ面で、

「ゴールデンウィークはどっか行ったか？」

__

"Hey, Kyon."

From behind, somebody clapped me on the shoulder. It was Taniguchi.

His blazer hung slovenly on his shoulders, his necktie was wrinkled and skewed to one side.

"Where did you go for Golden Week?"

__

I've taken the liberty of making this correction in the text. --Freak Of Nature 15:38, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

My grandma was the one who first called me that.

『最初に言い出だしたのは叔母の一人だったように記憶している。』

My mistake. I used the Chinese edition to translate and it was a mistake. The original Japanese version says "one of my aunts". I checked the Japanese volume to make sure it says aunts.

Found on MegaTokyo. Strangely enough no one tried to correct the mistake. I really hope people just correct it- if you notice the mistake, correct it.

--Thelastguardian 02:41, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

As this and that was happening -- although it was always Haruhi at the center of it all -- May arrived.

(alt translation from Cruzz's site.)

In the middle of this and that happening, well, the one doing this and that was no other than Haruhi, May arrived.

I wasn't clear on "this and that" referring to Haruhi's craziness, until I read Cruzz's translation. So perhaps a rephrase could emphasize that part?

Possible change:

As this and that was happening -- and it was always Haruhi at its center, causing it all -- May arrived.

--The naming game 13:47, 1 May 2006 (PDT)

I didn't realize there was already a discussion of this phrase on the talk page. I didn't recognize it when skimming the titles because the wording had changed greatly.

--The naming game 20:41, 3 May 2006 (PDT)

I pressed my numbing back head and turned around slowly.

(alt translation from Cruzz's site.)

Turning back forward holding my ringing head, ...

Suggested change:

I turned back slowly, holding my ringing head.

--The naming game 13:47, 1 May 2006 (PDT)

I re-read the passage where this line originated from and unless we re-structure that passage, the only changes that are suitable are ones that stick with the raw translation noted above. I've given it quite a bit of thought and I've found it impossible to use a sentence that seems more coherent than the raw translation, given the order that the passage has been written in. Thus, here's my suggestion to re-structuring the passage:

• The original

Haruhi finally let go of my collar. I pressed my numbing back head and turned around slowly. I noticed that the whole class looked totally awestruck. The freshly-graduated newbie teacher, with her chalk in her hand, stared at me and looked as if she was ready to cry.

• My suggestion

Haruhi finally let go of my collar. Whilst massaging the back of my head, which was now throbbing, I turned around slowly, only to find that the whole class was completely dumbstruck. The freshly-graduated fledgling teacher, with a chalk in her hand, stared at me and looked as if she was about to cry.

I note that since this is one of my suggestions, a change like mine may not be "like a needle in a hay stack". I invite anyone else to have an attempt at changing this. Hopefully someone might come up with a suggestion that will meld in perfectly with the rest of the text.

--Da~Mike 00:53, 7 May 2006 (GMT)

I've made a change here, based a bit off of the discussion here. Please take a look and edit more if needed.

--BlckKnght 13:24, 30 May 2006 (PDT)

...all the tables were moved out into the corridor...

Previous discussion moved to the forum. Click here to view: ...all the tables were moved out into the corridor...

Taniguchi had probably experienced the same thing himself. =

I'm not sure if I understand this sentance correctly in the current version. Kyon thinks that Taniguchi was one of the guys Haruhi dumped?

If so, I suggest a change to something like:

Taniguchi seemed to be speaking from experience.

--BlckKnght 23:29, 3 May 2006 (PDT)

Compared to the original translation, your suggestion seems to be better BlckKnght. I think it is simply because the original of "Taniguchi had probably experienced the same thing himself." could imply that he was dumped but not neccessarily by Haruhi whereas with "Taniguchi seemed to be speaking from experience.", it becomes obvious that he got the "5-minute dump" from Haruhi.

I think the change would suit the context better.

--Da~Mike 00:25, 7 May 2006 (GMT)

Well, that's the question: Did Taniguchi actually get dumped by Haruhi, or does Kyon merely consider such a possibility?

Maybe something more like "Was Taniguchi speaking from experience?" would preserve the ambiguity. Could a translator take a look at that section?

--BlckKnght 06:37, 8 May 2006 (PDT)

Although both our suggested interpretations would connotate the same thing (that Kyon would be guessing that Taniguchi got dumped by Haruhi), the degree by which he would be doing so is not as strong in your suggested interpretation. By this, I mean that this sentence "Taniguchi seemed to be speaking from experience." implies that Kyon would be inclined to assume that Taniguchi got dumped whereas "Was Taniguchi speaking from experience?" impies that Kyon is largely unsure whether he was dumped by Haruhi.

Again, the actual source text would be invaluable to decide which would suit the context better.

However, if I had to choose which sentence would suit Kyon as a character, I would think the sentence "Taniguchi seemed to be speaking from experience." would fit the cynical and sarcastic nature of Kyon much better than "Was Taniguchi speaking from experience?", which would be something a "nicer person" would think to themselves, such as a character like Mikuru.

--Da~Mike 21:56, 8 May 2006 (GMT)

I made the change, using the first (non-questioning) form.

--BlckKnght 13:24, 30 May 2006 (PDT)

People with average grades

Anyway, everyone in this school came from one of the four junior high schools in the city. People with average grades. This, of course, includes East Junior High; therefore there should have been people who graduated with Haruhi, who knew what her silence symbolized.

The "people with average grades" sentence is incomplete and seems disconnected from its context. Was something accidentally edited out...?

That part is in parentheses and seems to modify the part right before it, meaning the students who go to their high school are the average ones. Maybe the two should be combined to avoid looking like a fragment?

I suggest just putting that part in parentheses like in the original. And for reference, here's that part:

　このように一瞬にしてカラス全員のハートをいろんな意味でキャッチした涼宮ハルヒだが、翌日以降しばらくは割とおとなしく一見無害な女子高生を演じていた。

　嵐の前の静けさ、という言葉の意味が今の俺にはやく解る。

　いや、この高校に来るのは、もともと市内の四つの中学校出身の生徒たち（成績が普通レベルの奴ら）ばかりだし、東中もその中に入っていたから、涼宮ハルヒと同じ中学から進学した奴らもいるわけで、そんな彼らにしてみればこいつの雌伏状態が何かの前兆であることに気付いていたんだろうが、あいにく俺は東中に知り合いがいなかったしクラスの誰も教えてくれなかったから、スットンキョー自己紹介から数日後、忘れもしない朝のホームルームが始まる前だ。涼宮ハルヒに話しかけるという愚の骨頂なことを俺はしでかしてしまった。

--GDsMDDLFNGR 10:24, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

Hmm, I don't think parentheses are appropriate in the translation as it is currently written. Leaving the fragment would work, since dialogue—in this case, internal dialog—is less formal than other writing. Maybe a comma or dash would be best to get rid of the fragment.

Speaking of dashes, we should probably go through the text and try to standardize our use of dashes. I know a few places they have been put in as single hyphens (-) and sometimes as two hyphens (--). There is also inconsistant spacing around them that should be standardized: where American style prints an em dash without any spaces, European style substitutes an en dash with spaces on each side. Also, I think that some clauses that currently seperated with commans should instead use dashes to add emphasis or to clearly separate clauses with internal commas (such as my sentance above).

For reference, I typed in the dashes in the first of my paragraphs above using an HTML named entity (—), but entering the unicode character directly (—) is "cleaner" in some respects. Using a numeric entity (—) will render correctly in browsers that do not support the others (Netscape 4.x for example), but is ugly and hard to understand in the source code.

--BlckKnght 00:35, 27 May 2006 (PDT)

For a guy at least.

The following paragraph has some very strange puncuation to try to tie together a sentance structure that simply does not work in english:

Who would dare to confess face-to-face to a girl who obviously looks down on him? - For a guy at least. They lost their gut just from your expression! I keep on trying to guess what those guys were thinking as I respond to Haruhi.

Any ideas on how to rephrase it?

--BlckKnght 01:40, 27 May 2006 (PDT)

Here's the original:

　虫でも見るような目つきを前にして重大な―少なくとも本人にとっては―打ち明けごとをする気になれなかっただろう男の気分をトレースしながら一応俺は同意しておいた。

...my rough translation:

I can agree with those guys. Making such an important ― for them, at least ― confession in front of someone who would look at you like you were a worm would probably make anyone feel uneasy.

--GDsMDDLFNGR 11:15, 28 May 2006 (PDT)

At the end I got the second to last seat of the court-facing windowside column.

I'd like to reword the sentance above, but I don't have a good idea of what to do. I think "court-facing" and "windowside" both need to go, but the question is, what to replace them with. Ideas?

--BlckKnght 01:40, 27 May 2006 (PDT)

Maybe something like "second-to-last seat next to the window, overlooking the courtyard." Here's the original:

中庭に面した窓際後方二番目

--GDsMDDLFNGR 03:17, 27 May 2006 (PDT)

I've rewritten this sentance. Thanks for the explanation GDsMDDLFNGR!

--BlckKnght 13:24, 30 May 2006 (PDT)

...released the 50-ton bomb

I'm curious about the phrase Kyon uses to describe Haruhi's introduction. He compares it to releasing a 50-ton bomb. That seems strange to me, as 50 tons is tremendously heavy. I dug around a bit and found two possible bombs he could be referring to:

1. The first Hydrogen bomb—code named "Ivy Mike" and detonated by the United States in 1952—was an enormous device housed in a 2-story building on Enewetak Atoll in the Marshal Islands (its detonation totally destroyed the island of Elugelab). A large number of sources on the internet say that it weighed 50 tons (though Wikipedia suggests it was actually around 82 tons).
2. The reference could be to a 50 megaton bomb. That is the approximate yield of largest nuclear bomb ever to be detonated (or built). Commonly known as the Tsar Bomba, it was built and droped on Novaya Zemlya island in the Arctic Ocean by the USSR in 1961. Its primary purpose was as a Cold War political stunt, since at 8 meters long and weighing 27 metric tons, it was too large to be a practical weapon.

Could somebody check the original book to see if the translation is correct (ie, tons vs megatons)? While it is possible the reference is to Ivy Mike (especially with Japanese society having very high awareness of US nuclear testing in the Pacific), such a large bomb could not ever be "released" from anything. It was a building constructed on an island, not a bomb that could be dropped from a plane, so the usage seems to be a mistake (though it is entirely possible that it is either Kyon or Tanigawa-sensei who made the mistake, rather than the translator).

BlckKnght 09:21, 27 May 2006 (PDT)

Funny you should note this... I also felt weird about this line and looked it up. Here's the original:

　頭でひねっていた最低限のセリフを何とか噛まずに言い終え、やるべきことをやったという解放感に包まれながら俺は着席した。替わりに後ろの奴が立ち上がり―ああ、俺は生涯このことを忘れないだろうな―後々語り草となる言葉をのたまった。

Which translates to something like:

After I managed to finish my carefully thought-out, minimal-length introduction without stumbling over my words somewhat, I sat down, tucked in that feeling of relief you get after having done something you had to do. The person behind me stood up for her turn and―ah I probably won't forget this for the rest of my life―said the words that would be the topic of conversation for a long time.

--GDsMDDLFNGR 12:04, 27 May 2006 (PDT)

I thought about it some more and need some clarification... the original text used 噛 (to bite, chew, gnaw), so it's literally "without chewing my words." I put in "mumbling" for now. Any suggestions?

(Clarified - 噛む also has a slang meaning of saying something incorrectly, or getting a line wrong; updated the above translation accordingly)

--GDsMDDLFNGR 21:42, 27 May 2006 (PDT)

I've rewritten the passage, loosely based on your translation. Thanks!

--BlckKnght 13:24, 30 May 2006 (PDT)

Grammar Corrections

A Few minor corrections I thought I'd leave here. I probably would not have caught them if I my English teacher last year hadn't always take off a full point per grammar/spelling mistake.

"At the end he/she could only say "I see...then I will just...", and ask themselves..."

-Here it is probably fine to leave he/she because it is a translation (showing the victims to be both male and female), but 'he' is the standard for a pronoun with a gender unknown. But, you should change "themselves" to "himself or herself" (or himself/herself to match with your slash usage before. You may also want to use "or" instead of a slash in the future because the slash in this place is non-standard usage and probably would not be used in a book.)

"Therefore when I came to school the next day and discovered that instead of tying three ponytails, Haruhi had cut her long and slender hair short, I felt quite depressed".

-You need a comma after "therefore" because "when I.... ponytails" is a separate clause and "Therefore" is part of the clause "I felt quite depressed".

" But none of it is possible— no aliens, time travelers, or supernatural powers exist in this world. Okay, let's say they do exist. They wouldn't just appear right in front of us humble citizens and say, “Hello, I'm actually an alien.” "THAT'S WHY!"

- Okay, this part is a bit confusing to me. Does the narrator actually Say the first paragraph above out loud? If so, you need quotes, one before "But" (the one up there is one I added to quote text) and another after "alien."

That's all I found, keep up the great work.