Talk:Rakuin no Monshou:Volume1 Chapter7

Note 1, there may be names I left untranslated until I can figure it out who they are based on the Chinese translation - Archmage

Note 2, I am also considering a few liberties with the text. Especially with the combat scenes. In the Chinese translation some of the words are condensed to 4 letter adages, so I have to expand a few sentences to make sense. Also, I might try to slightly deviate from the text, such as the repeat use of character's name during a string of action, replacing Obra with "gladiator" or Ryucown as "the knight" so the sentence flow would be easier

. ........................ ...................................................................................................

Started changing some things but I was pressed for time. I made some inline texts, but I'll leave it up to you for now what to do with it. I'll continue checking when I have a bit more time, but good job! And, again, thanks for joining the project!

On the above Note 2 - I will check the sentence flow with the Japanese and make suggestions if I deem it necessary, so don't worry about it. And I also omit names sometimes because 'Orba picked up Orba's cup' sounds silly, so you're free to do the same. THe important thing is that the translation won't feel awkward to read.

Oh, and I'll leave grammar corrections up to the editors. --Dohma (talk) 16:25, 22 July 2013 (CDT)

• Ah, well, now I just learned how to use inline. This'll help me out, so i don't have to spam copy and paste, and can insert missing raw text in the appropriate areas. I'll start on the grammar corrections once this chapter is closed to being completed. For now, I'll either be catching up in the story, or proofing the rest of the translations --Detalz (talk) 16:48, 22 July 2013 (CDT)

On Note 3, you can just fill in the name as what you think is best for now. I personally like Rogue Syan as the romanization. It can always be fixed later, if anything. --Detalz (talk) 18:43, 23 July 2013 (CDT)

Suggested revisions

Edits made to chapter 7. Suggested revisions and other overly wordy questions below. Welcome back and thanks for your translations. --Cthaeh (talk) 19:16, 1 March 2014 (CST)

• Thanks again for your edits. This time I'll leave the changes up to you (I thought you mentioned something like that somewhere) but I don't mind changing them myself if you prefer it that way. --Dohma (talk) 15:35, 3 March 2014 (CST)

• Sure, I'll make the changes when they're ready. --Cthaeh (talk) 21:04, 3 March 2014 (CST)

Part 1

The two swords met once more, and finally Orba’s sword was flung from his hands.

• I thought "was knocked from his hands" might be better, because flung is an action I typically associate with having been initiated by the person holding the object (Orba in this case), which wouldn't make sense here. Though it's possible that association is limited to me.

• The verb used is 'to fling' or 'to toss' in passive tense. I don't mind 'knocked', but it gives me the impression that the sword doesn't 'fall' very far. The idea I get from the original text is that the sword is actually 'flung' quite a bit away.

• I agree that knocked is a bit weak compared to flung. I tried to come up with something stronger but couldn't. Again, my issue with flung may be unique to me. If we cared, we could ping Detalz or someone for another opinion on the use of flung. But even from my perspective, the use of flung is only a minor issue (since the meaning is still pretty clear), so it may not be worth doing that much even.

• 'was flung' is the equivalent of 'was sent flying', the latter of which I believe is what you're looking for. I think it's quite recent, but I've seen quite a few cases where 'flung' is used interchangeably with 'sent flying'. Personally, I prefer 'sent flying' in this sentence, and would use 'flung' only when describing a sequence of motions/actions where it's not at the end. --Detalz

Loaded with confidence, Orba piled into Ryucown’s body. The rebel troops unintentionally raised shouts of surprise, and suddenly the main hall was filled with sound of metal clashing against metal.

• "Unintentionally" and "surprised" might be a little redundant. I'd probably remove "unintentionally" but it's relatively minor.

• No you're right. ふと (suddenly/accidentally/unintentionally) is an annoyingly short word in Japanese that doesn't always translate very well. It's better not to in this case, so it can be removed.

At the southern bottom of the hill,

• Suggested revision (if applicable): At the bottom of the southern hill,

• There's only one hill, (the one where they place the cannons), and this suggested revision implies that there may be more. But 'southern side' should also suffice here. Maybe that sounds better?

• "southern side" sounds good to me.
• Then we'll go with that.

The old general Rogue Saian could not contain his excitement and bloodlust, thus personally let his troops on the front line.

• It seems like it should be "led his troops", but it does work as is. (There was also one other let -> led change that I already made nearby in the text)

• No, you're right. It should be 'led'.

A single-seated airship flying close to the ground almost strafed him, shaking his hips, before pulling back toward a sky with a sharp angle. But in that instant, the ship suddenly lost its balance. One of the gladiators was clinging on to the airship’s tail end. The other gladiators quickly came swarming over, dragging the pilot from his airship.

• I'm just a bit confused what's going on here. How did the gladiators swarm the airship if it was flying? It might make more sense if the second sentence "But in that instant, the ship suddenly lost its altitude." Or it might be a little trickier

• It's a little difficult to explain, but I'll try. There are (so far) three types of airships in this story. The common word for airship is 飛空艇 (hikuutei), but the author also uses an archaic writing of 飛空船 (hikuusen) and a self-made 飛空艦 (hikuukan); he also calls all airships in general 飛空艇 (hikuutei) again. The difference is in the last kanji, respectively: boat, ship, warship. But since airboat sounded silly, I made it airship, air carrier, and air frigate. But what he calls an airship is actually a small craft (I added 'single-seated' to remove a bit of the confusion). What we mostly consider and airship in Western fantasy (that can carry more people) is an air carrier in this case.

This still doesn't fully answer your question though. Because the airship is just a small craft (and it lost its balance because it flew too close to the ground) one of the gladiators was able to catch a hold of it, and the others quickly pulled the pilot off.

I'll have to think about maybe wording things differently, but maybe that's a discussion to have in the guidelines section. An idea could be to name all aircrafts in general 'airships' and make up a new word for the 'airboats'.

I should probably change 'was clinging' to 'clung' and 'dragging' to 'dragged' to make the sentence more active. Will that make it less confusing?

• Actually, I think I did have the correct picture in my head for the size. What confused me was the ship "pulling back toward the sky with a sharp angle" made me picture the ship actually gaining altitude with one person attached, but then I was confused how the others could reach it if it had gained altitude. I think the correct way to picture it would be that the pilot angled up, but his craft lost balance and he never gained any altitude. I think I'm ok with the general term airship to describe a small craft. I'll give a couple of possible revisions that might make it harder to get confused as I did, though now it's harder to know for sure if they'd really work.

-... before pulling back in a sharp angle towards the sky. (my hope here is that rearranging to put the sharp angle first will put the focus on the angle, rather than the sky)

-... before pulling a sharp angle skyward.

• Actually 'sky' is never really mentioned, it's just my liberal translation. Literally it says that the ship 'moved to a sudden rise with a sharp angle'. So to avoid confusion: "before (suddenly) pulling upwards in a sharp angle." Not sure if suddenly should be added or not. But, seeing as he loses his balance because he pulls up too sharply, it's probably better.

• There's a slight mistranslation here. 尻を振り refers to the tail of the airship turning. I've modified some parts and think this should clear any misunderstandings, though it does omit some details. "A single-seated airship nearly strafed past him and then its tail(I think this could be omitted) changed directions, making a sharp ascent upwards. In the course of this action, the plane suddenly lost its balance. One of the gladiators had clung to the tail of the ship..." --Detalz

They didn’t need to completely annihilate their forces, inflicting 20 to 30 percent of damage was sufficient.

• This is a small item. I don't know if it would match the original, but in general I would expect the word choice to be "20 to 30 percent casualties was sufficient."

• Casualties is fine.

In a free-for-all, confused battle, even their messages became jumbled. He’d be lying if he said his own predictions weren’t sweetened up a bit.

• "Sweetened up a bit" seems to be used as an idiom, however I wasn't able to find anything to match the meaning. Keeping with the theme of freshness or taste, "weren't souring a bit" might have the right meaning. Or there are other alternatives outside that theme (ie "weren't fouling a bit", "weren't fraying a bit").

• The author uses the word 'sweeten' or 'sugar'. I thought there was an idiom or expression like that, though. Basically, Orba had made things sound more positive than they probably were - or went with the most positive outcome. I'd like to somehow keep the 'too positive' part in the translation (I don't mind if the word sweet isn't used). 'sour', 'foul' and 'fray' all sound negative, if you get what I mean.

• Ah, no you're right about that being an expression. I think the tense confused me on the intended meaning. I thought it was saying that his plans/predictions were becoming innacurate because of the caotic situation. But, as I now understand it, the correct meaning is that he was intentionally being overly optimistic (lying if taken to the extreme) when he had made his predictions. So one suggested revision could be "predictions hadn't been sweetened up a bit." However, "sweetened up" implies something like adding a bonus to make something more appealing. In this case I might use "predictions hadn't been sugar-coated a bit." That implies the 'sugar coating' is hiding something while trying to make it seem appealing (in this case that he was actually predicting it to be worse than he said).
• I like 'sugar-coated', so let's go with that.

A new fleet of airships was already heading towards their position.

• For me personally, "fleet" indicates a larger group than I actually pictured in this scene. I was picturing something that I'd be more likely to call a "formation / group / contingent of airships".

• You're right. I was a bit to carefree with my translation. Dictionary entry for the word used here (部隊) is 'unit' or 'corps'.

Orba still tried to use his strength to deliver another blow, but the thrust passed as Ryucown had already moved around him in a semi-circle, and all he could do was fall forward. On all fours on the ground, a blade was placed to the nape of his neck.

• First sentence, it seemed like maybe something was missing, such as "passed through empty space". Or maybe it would be better just using with "missed" or "didn't make contact", in the place of the current "passed".

• Basically it means it 'passed by him'. I also don't mind 'missed'.

• Second sentence, the current wording somewhat implies, at least to me, that the tip of the blade was pointing at his nape. I somewhat expected it to be the edge of the blade that was against his nape; if that was the case, I suggest revision to "blade was placed against the nape of his neck."

• 'against' is fine with me. There's no distinction in the text that it's the point of his sword.

Having lived through countless battles, this was his first time tasting defeat. For him, it meant that the heart that had been beating only for vengeance, would stop beating halfway.

• The second sentence, I wasn't really sure what it means for his heart to "stop beating halfway." My best guess was that something along the lines of he's losing (about half of) his reason for living. If that's the case I feel like there should be a better wording, but I can't think of any right now.

• It's basically literally what it says, in a Japanesy symbolic way. Basically his heart has been beating only for revenge, and now it's going to stop when he's halfway. Also, there's a sort of a meaning behind 'for him, it meant'. He doesn't consider dying a defeat, but the fact that he couldn't exact vengeance. Or, dying for him means that he can't take revenge (as in he can only die happily after getting his revenge). I will ponder on this for a while, but if you have a good suggestion, don't hold back.

• OK. I didn't understand what it meant, but now that I do, I will reevaluate what changes might be helpful and see if I get any flashes of inspiration.

Orba’s heartbeat that was about to stand still, firmly started ticking away at a steady rhythm again.

• Suggested revision: Orba's heartbeat had been on the verge of stopping, but it firmly started ticking away at a steady rhythm again.

• This actually refers back to the earlier mentioned 'heartbeat'. By using 'that was' I tried to reach the same effect. I do like the 'on the verge of stopping' though. Maybe: "Orba heartbeat, that had been on the verge of stopping, firmly started..."?

• That change works. I think I've developed a habit of trying to get rid of things phrased "that/who was..." or similar, because they sometimes seem to get overused in translation. But there's nothing wrong with it when it's not being overused.

Some things I noticed myself:

• 'ten man team' - is this correct or should it be 'ten-man-team' or 'ten-man team'?

• I would use 'ten-man team'. --Cthaeh
• Great. 'ten-man team' it is.

Part 2

“Princess, how far will you go with this military spirit?”

• "military spirit" is a little strange, I think. Perhaps some more common phrases would be "fighting spirit" or "rebellious spirit", but I wouldn't know if those fit the meaning.

• The author uses 'fighting spirit' several times in this book, but here he specifically writes 'spirit of a general'. I changed it into military spirit (also because 'general spirit' holds an entirely different meaning). In a way, Ryucown compliments her for having the spirit of a commander, but berates her for it as well, thinking girls shouldn't play war games. I do like 'rebellious spirit', because it does fit the context, but I'm afraid the entire militia/war part will get lost in the translation. I'll ask Detalz for his opinion (also on 'flung').

• Hmm, this one is hard. I believe 'a commander's fighting spirit' points towards the 'resolution and defiant attitude of a commander', so I'd go with tenacious spirit, but that kind of omits the 'general(leader)' part. A certain idiom does come to mind, "How far will you go to set yourself an example/set an example of your tenacious spirit?" though it's quittteeeeeeee liberal. --Detalz

Their eyes even seemed to be sad. From the start, she could never bear them any enmity or ill will. For, in their hearts, they all loved Garbera, and they all loved the flower of Garbera, princess Vileena.

• Just a note that I changed some things here (this is the new version), so just make sure to check that everything is as it should be. It looked like the things I added/removed were vestiges from the editing process.

• Somehow and entire part got lost during my own editing. It's supposed to be:

There wasn't any hostility in her eyes as Vileena looked out over them. Her eyes even seemed to be sad.

“I don’t want to!!” the princess cried out that instance, but for what?

• I think it should be "that instant"?

• You're right. I looked up the difference between instant and instance and realize I've been making the smae mistake several times.

“Six years ago… you were still aspiring to be a knight, but more of a knight than others.

• I think this is saying he wanted to be a better knight than most knights. If that's the case, I suggest "more of a knight than any other."

• What he's saying is that he was still a knight in training (thus aspiring to be a knight), but already a knightlier than many of those who already have that title.

Ryucown was about to bring his blade up for a strike, and as everyone’s attention was focused on the princess, Shique took the chance to break out of his encirclement.

• "Was about to" implies intent but not actually starting the action, which I suppose could be true, it just seemed strange here to me. If he hasn't raised his blade, but had started the motion to, then I'd suggest "Ryucown started to bring …"

• It's 'about to', but I agree it could be worded better. Propasal: "As Ryucown was about to bring his blade up for a strike, and with everyone's attention focused on the princess, Shique took the chance to break out of his encirclement."

While Shique got into the seat behind her, she immediately fired up the engine, emitting ether, and the craft lifted the two of them up in the air.

• I think this is somewhat minor, but just to be on the safe side. Suggesting "… fired up the engine. Emitting ether, the craft lifted…"

• That's okay. I also think this is better.

As was to be expected, Ryucown’s face paled and he was about to run straight for the airship.

• "was about to" seems a little off here too, but perhaps not quite as much as the one above. I'm having a hard time pinning down exactly why I don't like it, so maybe just move on from this one.

• Changing it to 'he started to run straight for the airship' is fine with me too.

The black blood that had mainly been keeping up his strength was about to run out.

• Suggesting deleting "mainly". I think it's current use puts the focus in the wrong place; and I couldn't think of a way to place the focus correctly without rewording the rest of the sentence.

• 'Mainly' is a bit too freely worded I guess. Literally it says that the black blood had been the 'main current' (sorta pun-like) in keeping up his strength/stamina (I chose strength because stamina sounded a little off in my opinion). Suggestion: "The black blood had been the main current in keeping up his strength, but (it) was about to run out."

A hole was drilled in the upper right part of his mask, creating a clean crack down to the middle.

• I can't really picture a hole being drilled in the mask (drilling doesn't fit for me). Without knowing the original and just looking at the rest of the sentence, I would say that "chip" might fit. Something like "A chip broke off from the upper right..." or "A piece chipped off from the upper right..."

• I do agree, but 'drilled' or 'bored' is the verb used here, as well as the word 'hole' (穴が穿たれ). It puzzled me a bit too, but I suppose Ryucown uses a 'stabbing strike' (original says he "mustered his strength into striking a blow"). What it looks like to be is that his sword slightly 'dug' into the mask, creating the crack. So yeah, 'drilled' is not a really good choice here. I's also like to replace 'hole', but I'm not sure if chip is the right replacement. To me a 'chip' is the small part that breaks off, but I'm actually looking for a word for the part that the 'chip' left behind. Is that also a chip? Can a 'chip' be dug? Basically what I'm asking if (after this long-winded explanation) you have another suggestion, if not I'll go with 'a chip broke off' because it does portray better what happens here.

“Until a few moments ago, I could see a nation of knights… but was this my limit? Tell me your name. I, Ryucown, won’t rest in peace if I’m defeated by a nameless man.”

• I deleted the line above this that seemed to be an unintentional duplicate, so just double check that everything is as intended with this line and surrounding text.

• This is the correct sentence. Thanks.

The soldier’s fighting spirit was mixed with rage. The gladiators who’d also rushed into a hall formed a circle around Orba. // Just then, they went for an attack on the Mephian air corps, about a dozen ships who had come back for supplies. The soldiers realized the situation, but they all pulled out swords and guns and surged onto the uppermost part of the fortress.

• I'm confused what's going on in the second paragraph (after the //). Who's "they" in "they went for an attack? What are they doing?

• I'd made a mental note of checking this sentence again after translating things a bit further (because I didn't really realize what was going on and was hoping I'd figure it out later) but forgot about it. What happens: There's a new group of rebel soldiers arriving in the hall. Revision:

Just then, about a dozen ships that had gone for an attack on the Mephian air corps came back for supplies. These soldiers realized what was going on, and they all pulled out swords and guns and surged onto the uppermost part of the fortress.

Slowly but steadily, Ryucown’s men came closer.

• Minor: I wanted to change to "... men closed in", but I don't have a very strong reason for that, so I'm putting it here as a matter of style to leave up to you.

• I don't mind. You can change it.

...but the sword slaves silently stood with their weapons drawn, guarding him. Either side had the relentless urge to kill, and they became like colourless bullets as they charged toward each other, clashed into one another, and exploded. // In that instant, one could hear a battle cry washing over like a tsunami wave. Seen from the uppermost balcony, an army surged towards them like wildfire on the outstretched plains.

• The bolded sentence makes it sound like the gladiators and soldiers did in fact start fighting. However, I was picturing that scene as they both didn't move until a battle cry from the approaching army washed over them. So just checking, does that line mean they did start fighting before they heard the battle cry.

• I originally assumed that they did start fighting. The sentence doesn't actually end (and with the determining verb always at the end of a sentence in Japanese, the reader has to finish the sentence himself) so I addded 'became'). But looking back now, it's actually much more logical that they didn't start fighting yet, especially with the author being all symbolic with his 'colourless bullets' and stuff so:

Revision:", and they were ready to turn into colourless bullets charging toward each other, clashing into one another, and explode when... // In that instant, they could hear [...]"

And at the very least they wanted to take revenge on the person standing before them who had killed their general, Ryucown. // But it were the Mephian forces approaching.

• Second sentence, it looks like it should be "it was the". I might also add some more to make it "But it was the Mephian forces who were approaching."

• I didn't get the meaning across right. They want to kill Orba but, if it's the Mephian Army that's approaching (the italics part is one sentence in the original, but in English that basically means the sentence isn't finished yet, so that's a bit of a conundrum). To me it suggests that they don't know what to do with the Mephians aproaching. But if they want to give up, fight the army instead and die a noble death, or something else, isn't clarified. But I don't like leaving an open sentence here, it raises too many questions. So:

Revision: "But now, the Mephian army was approaching them."

Illuminated by a line of fire, altering through the night sky, was the symbol of their birthplace,

• I don't think "altering" is the right word there. Some words that I would have expected are fluttering, flying, dancing, flickering, or waving. Obviously not all of those have the same meaning, I just wasn't sure exactly what the intent was.

• Fluttering is better. Also, should it be 'fluttering through the night sky' or 'fluttering in the night sky'? Just pick the preposition that goes best here, because I'm unsure.

Part 3

It wasn’t such a strange thing that some of the soldiers were showing strong feelings of heading out and joining Ryucown’s cause instead.

• Suggesting replacing "where showing" with "had", because it doesn't seem like something they can show.

The moment the gunfire died out, it felt like time itself had stopped. In the distance behind Vileena, the fires of war continued to burn and their colours were reflected in the Garberan soldiers’ eyes. In that instant, Shique saw realization run through them like a lightning bolt. Altogether, it seemed like they truly were knights lifting up their sword at the call of their liege.

• Whole paragraph is here just for context. Looking at the last sentence, I was a little confused. What I thought it was saying was that the soldiers' reaction to realizing it was Vileena demonstrated their loyalty and dedication to the royal family as knights. What I think confused me is that "lift up their swords at the call" makes it sound like they were taking some action in response to Vileena, which at this point I thought they just stopped firing and looked shocked. My suggested revision to address that would be:

- Altogether, it seemed like they truly were knights who wielded their swords for the sake their liege.

I have of course no doubt that he loved his country and its people ...

• Comma use is something that I hate, so I'm not 100% on this, but I think it should be "I have, of course, no doubt that he..."

You haven’t only saved the fate of only me, but also of both Mephius and Garbera.

• Suggested/possible revision: You have saved not only my own fate, but also that of both Mephius and Garbera.

However, as part of the Garberan royal family, she had to withstand, especially if she wanted to accomplish anything after becoming the Empress of Mephius in the near future.

• I like "endure" to replace "withstand", if that's consistent with the intended meaning (I think the connotation is slightly different between the two).

That time after she’d boarded the airship and was unable to fly away at first, she was still torn between two countries and unable to choose.

• When was the time she boarded the airship this is referring to? Was it in Ch6? If so, wasn't she "stopped from flying away" rather than "unable to fly away"? Also, if I'm reading the sentence correctly, I think it should start with "Like the time..."

Like the commander of a victorious army, he walked with broad soldiers, accompanied to his left and right by two soldiers carrying sword and gun.

• End of the sentence, is one soldier carrying a gun and the other a sword, or are both carrying both? If it's the first, I suggested "carrying a sword and a gun." If it's the second, I suggest "carrying a sword and gun." I think it needs at least the one "a"; I think the use of two a's still leaves it a little ambiguous, but I feel like it somewhat implies the meaning I've a associated it with (though I could just be making that up).

There were many people gathered together calling out the prince’s name, raising jubilous voices and waving their hands in joy.

• I couldn't find a dictionary entry for jubilous, so I think it's technically not a word even though I think most people will understand what it means. Possible replacements

Maybe he was getting used to it, or maybe some kind of talent was beginning to sprout within, but every time the soldiers cheered when they glanced his way, he felt a glamour inside of him he’d never felt before.

• I don't think "glamour" is the right word there. Some replacements might be "sense of pride", "sense of satisfaction", satisfaction, or joy.

The blade was glittering as if it was still new, and it had been engraved with Orba’s name.

• Maybe it's just me, but I read it as "as if ... it had been engraved", which is not correct. I think the sentence structure is actually perfectly correct for it's meaning. But if you wanted to change it so it's harder to mis-read as I did, then a possible revision could just to split it into two sentences as "...still new. It had been". Also, this isn't wrong either, but I might just use "It/it was engraved with Orba's name" rather than "had been" (technically they it changes "engrave" from a past action, to a present description, but the resulting meaning is pretty much the same).