Editing Talk:Meeting:March302014



Meeting started

== Clarify Ambiguous (outdated) Baka-Tsuki guidelines. ==


"is the one week requirement to complete a new chapter

choice 1) keep it 2) extend it to a month 3) remove it

<pre>
<Kira0802> 3.
<Vallor> 2/3
<stellarroze> 2.
<krytyk> 1
<Misogi> 3
<Lery> 3
<cloudii> 3
<Lord-Simon> 3
<Darkoneko> 3
</pre>

Majority to remove it. 

consensus seems to expect a new project to already have material ready (like a prologue/intro already translated), rather than start from zero
[[User:Darkoneko|DarkoNeko]] <small>[[User_Talk:Darkoneko|talk]]</small> 08:40, 30 March 2014 (CDT)

== teaser status / ATP ==
random questions during chat mode (to complete)
*Should teasers be an intermediate step in the creation of a project ?
*What about teasers where the translator know already that (s)he'll be too busy to continue (and made than in hope another translator picks the project up) ?
*Translators often tag something as a project in hope to get it to the side bar/categories and give it visibility
*Every project seems to start by being tagged as a teaser for some reason (misuse ?)


Vote of new modus operandi : 
 1). Teaser tag is the default tag to be put on new project
 2). When the teaser reaches the requirements for full project, translator tags Pending
 3). Oni/DarkoNeko/Vaelis (or other supervisor) approves

<pre>
<Kira0802> Yea
<cloudii> Yes
<Cthaeh> yes
<krytyk> yes
<rock96> Yep
<hayashi> yes
<stellarroze> yes
<Code-Zero> yes
<Vallor> Yes but what's happened to the deadline?
<Misogi> Yes (although the Alt. Languages situation should be clarified).
<DarkoNeko> yes
<Lery> yes
<Lord-Simon> yes
</pre>

== mailing supervisors ==
 <cloudii> There are number of instances int he rules
 <cloudii> that require members to "email" supervisors
 <cloudii> ...
 <cloudii> Remove all references thereof 
 <cloudii> of that form of contact


Vote : 
everyone approve

== Creating a wiki page for requests ==

" Create a single location on the Wiki where administrative requests can be made. This should be at location that all sysops/supervisors monitor."


(like on wikipedia)

vote : 
<pre>
<+Lord-Simon> yes
<Misogi> Yes.
<cloudii> yes
<Kira0802> Yea
<rock96> Yes.
<&DarkoNeko> agreed
<krytyk> y
<Lery> yes
<hayashi> yes
</pre>

== remove Wiki rules on forums ==

"rules about the forum should be on the forum, but rules about the wiki are also on the forum. They should be moved to the wiki"

Vote : 
everyone agrees

== Create comprehensive Help Pages to improve the experience of brand-new members. ==

vote : all approve.

Detail of content of saide pages to be discussed séparatly

== inactivity ==

=== general ===
Inactive people in power group issues : 
*Risk of accounts being hacked
*Risks of people asking long-time inactive members to do stuff and never get answers.
*cluttering of said groups


Motion : 
 <cloudii> 1). One year of inactivty = loss of physical wiki rights
 <cloudii> 2). If you end up coming back, talk to a sysop to be reinstated

Vote : 
<pre>
<Kira0802> Yea
<Cthaeh> vote yes
<rock96> yes
<Lery> yes
<hayashi> mondai nai
<krytyk> y
<&DarkoNeko> vote y
<Vallor> yes
<victorrama> Yea
<+Lord-Simon> yes, even if I'm sceptical
</pre>

=== projects supervisors ===

 If a Project Supervisor/Manager appears to be inactive
 A translator may put in a request with Adminsitration, to be instated as the new Project Supervisor

??

== project leading and supervisions ==

Renaming of some of the roles for a project, for clarity

<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; 
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 "Project Supervisor -> Project Manager (usually one of the translators or editors. Does not need to be a member of a particular power user group)"
 "Project Administrator -> Supervisor (wiki supervisor or above)"
</pre>

<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; 
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<cloudii> Yes
<krytyk> yes
<Kira0802> Yea
<Vallor> Yeah
<Misogi> Yes (although I may not count)
<Lery> yes
<Cthaeh> yes, vote
<&DarkoNeko> i'd have preferred "translation project manager" for clarity, but I'll take that
<rock96> 'K, I think
</pre>

Vote : approved

== Project Manager ==

"If a project manager knows they'll be away for a while, they should designate a subtitute to take all decisions in their absence"

Vote : all agreed.

----

"In case of unannounced inactivity or management issues, the project staff may ask the Supervisor to mediate and/or appoint a new Project Manager amongst the active project members"

Vote : approved.

----

"The first Project Manager is appointed by the Supervisor during ATP procedure."

Vote : approved.


==Complete Log of the Meeting==
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|-
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<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; 
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<nowiki>
[...]
15:13 <&DarkoNeko> so, what part of http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Meeting:March302014 culd we do without him ?
15:13 < Kira0802> WHAT IF GOD WAS ONE OF US
15:13 < cloudii> ping said that he'd be late on fb
15:13 < Vallor> xD
15:13 < hayashi> but it's 9pm+ in sg
15:13 < Lord-Simon> kira.. calm down
15:13 < hayashi> he should be home by now
15:13 < Kira0802> JUST A SLOB LIKE ONE OF US
15:13 < Lery> Any way to magnify text using Mibbit ?
15:13 <&DarkoNeko> we could strart with cloudii's "Modify, simplify and remove outdated rules from the guidelines: "
15:13 <&DarkoNeko> Lery, like any other webpage, ctrl+ +
15:14 < Lord-Simon> do you use chrome ?
15:14 < Misogi> Yep, it requires everyone's help.
15:14 < hayashi> also
15:14 < hayashi> where is KH
15:14 < Vallor> Maybe Big Brother is watching us...
15:14 < hayashi> oh wait
15:14 < hayashi> he's back in camp
15:14 < hayashi> XD
15:14 < victorrama> Kira
15:14 < cloudii> I'm in favor of DarkoNeko's suggestion to get started anyways xD
15:14 <&DarkoNeko> could someone summarize https://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=8726 it's too long didn't read :D
15:14 < Lery> @DarkoNeko, yeah, but the interface will then be magnified as well
15:14 < victorrama> He'd slap me
15:14 <&DarkoNeko> Lery, aye
15:14 < Kira0802> wtf darko
15:14 < cloudii> I can talk it through
15:14 <&DarkoNeko> Part 2: Migrate all the Wiki rules from the Forums, and archive the old rules. <- YES.
15:14 < Lord-Simon> 15 more minutes and then start ?
15:14 < Kira0802> it's like 3 pages long
15:15 <&DarkoNeko> actually, why the fuck are they on the forum
15:15 < Kira0802> because forums = life
15:15 < hayashi> that's one of the points
15:15 < cloudii> 1). Remove the One Week deadline from the project creation rules
15:15 < hayashi> the wiki and the forums are not meshing
15:15 < cloudii> 2). Change the wording of the {{Warning:ATP}}
15:15 < Lery> Well, actually we could talk about Cloud's points.
15:15 < hayashi> something needs to be done about that
15:15 <&DarkoNeko> meshing ?
15:15 < Kira0802>     >Part 1: Clarify Ambiguous (outdated) Baka-Tsuki guidelines.
15:15 < Kira0802>     >Part 2: Migrate all the Wiki rules from the Forums, and archive the old rules.
15:15 < Kira0802>     >Part 3: Create comprehensive Help Pages to improve the experience of brand-new members.
15:15 <&DarkoNeko> hey, let cloud explain lol
15:15 < Lord-Simon> *sigh*
15:15 <&DarkoNeko> don't spam on his parade
15:15 < hayashi> the forums is supposed to function in tandem with the wiki
15:15 < Lord-Simon> Stop here
15:16 < hayashi> at least that's the way I see it
15:16 < Lord-Simon> Choose a person to explain
15:16 < Lord-Simon> wait for explanation
15:16 < hayashi> but currently it's not
15:16 < cloudii> Um, can someone chair the meeting?
15:16 < Lord-Simon> get a mediator
15:16 < Kira0802> TLG
15:16 < Lord-Simon> and do the stuff
15:16 <&DarkoNeko> what does  a chair do ?
15:16 < Lord-Simon> I can
15:16 < hayashi> can we just get cloudi to explain everything
15:16 < cloudii> sure, Simon can chair
15:16 <&DarkoNeko> yes, let's do that
15:16 < victorrama> simon be mediator
15:16 < Misogi> Well, I can handle a part of the task too.
15:16  * Kira0802 hugs Cloudii
15:16 < stellarroze> i vote for simon!
15:16 <&DarkoNeko> i can ban the unrelies XD
15:16  * stellarroze hugs cloudii
15:16 <&DarkoNeko> unrulies*
15:17 < victorrama> Don't Kill me
15:17  * Kira0802 hugs stella
15:17 < krytyk> chat discipline~
15:17 < cloudii> Okays, so Part 1 :Clarify Ambiguous (outdated) Baka-Tsuki guidelines.
15:17  * stellarroze hugs victorrama
15:17 <&DarkoNeko> shh
15:17 < hayashi> STOP HUGGING
15:17 < cloudii> The first rule that comes to mind that is outdated
15:17 < Lery> Uh, I think that it's only DarkoNeko who has the rights to moderate the channel currently.
15:17 < cloudii> is the one week requirement to complete a new chapter
15:17 < Kira0802> we can delete that
15:17 < cloudii> for a new project
15:17 < Misogi> Agreed.
15:17 < cloudii> just delete that rule
15:17 < Lery> Agreed
15:17 < Lord-Simon> People
15:17 < victorrama> ^
15:17 < cloudii> Motion to agree?
15:17 < Lord-Simon> Shut up
15:17 <&DarkoNeko> why is that rule a problem ?
15:17 < stellarroze> one month?
15:17 < cloudii> Okay
15:17 < Lord-Simon> Thank you
15:18 < cloudii> so, it's a problem
15:18 < Lord-Simon> Cloidii, once agian please
15:18 < Kira0802> No, if therE's not enough, we can simply not approve
15:18 < cloudii> because most projects don't even follow that guideline
15:18 < Kira0802> instead of going all the way to delete it
15:18 < cloudii> in the first place
15:18 < Lery> Well, it's stressing the translators who would like to begin...
15:18 < stellarroze> hmmm
15:18 < cloudii> theoretically
15:18 < stellarroze> fair enough
15:18 < cloudii> any project
15:18 < victorrama> Listen to simon. Please stay wuite ,:now
15:18 < cloudii> tagged with ATP, is supposed to be deleted within a week
15:18 < cloudii> unless the translator gets permission from a supervisor
15:18 < cloudii> to get it extended
15:19 <&DarkoNeko> okay, so a little pause
15:19 < krytyk> a translator can first translate a chapter, and then start a project, if he is determined he will do that. I believe that rule was made to avoid people pick up new project, and then go MIA
15:19 <&DarkoNeko> choice 1) keep it 2) extend it to a month 3) remove it
15:19 < Kira0802> 3.
15:19 < Vallor> 2/3
15:19 < stellarroze> 2.
15:19 < krytyk> 1
15:19 < Misogi> 3
15:19 < Lery> 3
15:19 < cloudii> 3
15:19 < Vallor> I'd prefer the third though
15:19 < hayashi> 2
15:19 <&DarkoNeko> krytyk, so, having a chapter (or a prologue) ready before the project is actually created, then 
15:20 < cloudii> Can I bring up a point?
15:20 < Lord-Simon> 3
15:20 < Kira0802> go ahead
15:20 <&DarkoNeko> sure
15:20 < Lord-Simon> Let me get some paper
15:20 < cloudii> Theoretically, we want all of our project startup guidelines
15:20 < cloudii> to include rules governing teaser creation
15:20 <&DarkoNeko> I'll go create a summary of the discussion on http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Talk:Meeting:March302014&action=edit&redlink=1
15:20 < Vallor> But it is a problem fo alternative langages
15:20 < krytyk> moreover, considering that rule, I want to pick up another facet of it, the teasers
15:20 < krytyk> it is really ambigious considering teaser projects
15:20 < cloudii> exactly
15:21 < Kira0802> Teasers do not have any rule concerning them, and it'd ok.
15:21 < cloudii> That is point 2 on my page
15:21 < Misogi> Coudii mentionned that point later in the post.
15:21 -!- DefaultMelody [cgiirc@Rizon-34094955.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
15:21 < Misogi> Cloudii*
15:21 < krytyk> yeah, I mean those issues are connected
15:21 < cloudii> There are no rules whatsoever governing the creation of teasers
15:21 < krytyk> so if you discuss one, you should consider the other at the same time.
15:21 < cloudii> sure
15:21 < cloudii> so, here's the issue with the teasers
15:21 < Misogi> Teaser = A translator only does some chapters, nothing more.
15:22 < cloudii> since there are no rules governing the uploading up them
15:22 < cloudii> and also the fact that some people don't consider teasers to be "starting a new project"
15:22 < cloudii> whereas other people do
15:22 < hayashi> i have a question
15:22 < hayashi> can anyone create a teaser
15:22 < cloudii> go ahead
15:22 < cloudii> yes
15:22 < Kira0802> yes
15:22 < Lord-Simon> yes
15:22 < hayashi> ah ok
15:23 <&DarkoNeko> that may be a problem
15:23 < hayashi> should we restrict it to translators only?
15:23 < Kira0802> it's not
15:23 < stellarroze> even a machine translator?
15:23 <&DarkoNeko> teasers seems to be quite the "bastardised" status
15:23 < Lord-Simon> I would vote for no.
15:23 < krytyk> to create a teaser you need a correctly translated part
15:23 < Kira0802> well, a machine TL can touch a teaser as much as a normal translation
15:23 < krytyk> so not just anyone can do it
15:23 < hayashi> like a series that a translator wants to do but has no time so it's just something he's throwing out there?
15:23 < Misogi> ^
15:23 -!- arczyx [qwebirc@866D8F3D.10338973.76D323C4.IP] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
15:23 < Kira0802> @Hayashi, yeah, something like that
15:23 < cloudii> Well, it's just my observation that the usage of the "teaser tag" no longer represents what we originally intended for it
15:23 < Lord-Simon> One thing about this whole thing.
15:24 <&DarkoNeko> it probably shoiuld be only a translator, but we would keep away potential new translators if only existing ones can do that
15:24 < krytyk> that might be what some people want to do, but it should be treated as something that "teases" and possibly catches some other translators interest
15:24 < cloudii> All new projects on the wiki are tagged with some sort of teaser tag
15:24 < cloudii> in the English projects
15:24 < cloudii> On the other hand, ATP tag is neglected
15:24 < cloudii> that's the main issue here
15:24 < Misogi> Exception of Alt. Languages.
15:24 < Lord-Simon> One person states the problem and explains it. We wait till he/she is done. Discuss it. And at the end we vote.
15:24 < Lery> What was it intended to be at first?
15:24 < cloudii> Imo, all brand new translations on the wiki, should be tagged with ATP
15:25 < cloudii> Oni's original rules didn't not account for the existence of teasers
15:25 <&DarkoNeko> "ATP" ?
15:25 < hayashi> the initial discussion was about the existence of the 1 week deadline
15:25 < cloudii> "Pending Project Tag"
15:25 < Kira0802> I disagree for that
15:25 < cloudii> http://i.imgur.com/JC6zsLM.png
15:25 < hayashi> so far we seem to be mostly in favour of abolishing it/extending it to a month
15:25 < hayashi> with majority for abolishing it totally
15:25 < Kira0802> Why should something that's not intended to be made into a project have a tag on it?
15:25 <&DarkoNeko> cloudii, ... why does that only apply to "alternative lanugages" ?
15:26 < cloudii> No, it's supposed to apply to all languages
15:26 < cloudii> Oni treats it that way
15:26 <&DarkoNeko> ok
15:26 < cloudii> at the very least
15:26 < krytyk> the problem is with existence of ATP imho
15:26 < cloudii> the problem is, is that ATP is not being used
15:26 < cloudii> for english projects
15:26 <&DarkoNeko> bit of pause again : should we use temporary +M with voicing of the speaker during explanation time ?
15:26 < Kira0802> yes
15:26 < krytyk> as teasers are there, people (incl me) prefer to make a teaser, and once it grows to normal volume size convert it to full project
15:26 < stellarroze> +M?
15:26 < Kira0802> don't forget to voice cloudii
15:26 < krytyk> so abolish ATP or teasers
15:26 < Lord-Simon> yes
15:26 < Lord-Simon> I'd like that to do
15:26 <&DarkoNeko> +m, only voice ad above may talk, it's so only the speaker , well, speak, during that time
15:27 <&DarkoNeko> ok, we'll do that starting the next point then
15:27 < cloudii> Observation: Nowadays, all of our new projects go through the Teaser Project pathway. Regardless of whether a new project really should be classified as a teaser, virtually all translators tag their new project pages with the Teaser tag. 
15:27 < cloudii> Translators tag the teaser tag regardless of their intent to continue, or not to continue the project
15:27 < cloudii> that's just an observation
15:27 < krytyk> What about abolishing ATP, and making some of its rules cover the teasers
15:28 < Kira0802> True, but why should all projects have ATP?
15:28 < Kira0802> all teasers*
15:28 <&DarkoNeko> should we make "teaser" an intermediary part of creating a project, then ?
15:28 < krytyk> one week to present a prologue
15:28 < krytyk> as a "teaser"
15:28 < krytyk> teasers are very short so a month is not needed
15:28 < Vallor> teasers and new projects are not the same thing...
15:28 < Kira0802> I say you have the content before making the page for a teaser
15:28 < krytyk> teasers often turn into full project, more often than ATP turn into new projects
15:28 < cloudii> krytyk, the one week thing, is that do you really plan to delete a page that has less than prologue?
15:28 < Kira0802> you must have*
15:29 < Lord-Simon> But the teaser and a new project are treated as one
15:29 < cloudii> If someone uploads 25%, do we really want to delete the page?
15:29 < cloudii> just because it fails to fulfil the 1 week requirement?
15:29 < Lord-Simon> That what it might look to the person out there.
15:29 < hayashi> if I may interrupt
15:29 < cloudii> because that's what the rule implies
15:29 < krytyk> 25%, is 4 lines of text very often
15:29 < Lord-Simon> Go on, hayashi.
15:29 < Kira0802> ehhh
15:29 -!- mode/#baka-tsuki [+v Lord-Simon] by DarkoNeko
15:29 < hayashi> teasers are supposed to entice newbie translators into picking up a project
15:30 -!- mode/#baka-tsuki [-vvv cautr`off Gosha Kanzar] by DarkoNeko
15:30 < hayashi> after being 'teased' by a small portion
15:30 < hayashi> krtyk
15:30 < hayashi> what you're proposing isn't a teaser
15:30 < cloudii> that was the original intention of the teaser initiative
15:30 < hayashi> it's a full project you're committing to
15:30 <+Lord-Simon> Yes, that is correct.
15:30 < hayashi> because you intend to continue
15:30 < krytyk> yeah, I know that. The case is that its mainly teasers that turn into normal projects
15:30 < krytyk> ATP isn't used very often
15:30 < hayashi> so far
15:30 < krytyk> making those rules a problem
15:30 < hayashi> not a lot of teasers have made the leap into full projects
15:31 < Kira0802> Teasers turn into projects because without the tag, they don't get visibility.
15:31 < cloudii> the observation is that everyone uses the teaser tag is an intermediate to full project nowadays
15:31 < cloudii> Here's how I see it:
15:31 < krytyk> thus my point is to merge ATP with teasers and create a separate set of rules.
15:31 < cloudii> add Teaser as an official intermediate in the workflow
15:31 -!- rock96 [cgiirc@B9361843.C5E4665F.13B9A932.IP] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
15:31 < cloudii> or merge/delete ATP tag with teasers
15:31 < Kira0802> long time no see, rock
15:31 < hayashi> I think
15:31 < hayashi> teasers should remain as so
15:31 < rock96> Hi to all, yeah
15:32 < hayashi> but the ATP tag should be moderated/enforced more
15:32 < cloudii> The issue is that, there's no way for the ATP tag to be moderated
15:32 < krytyk> if ATP is moderated, people will just continue as teasers until they qualify to full projects
15:32 < hayashi> if you integrate teasers into the project flow
15:32 < krytyk> thus making ATP oboslete
15:32 < cloudii> because the assumption, currently
15:32 < cloudii> is that all translators claim their uploaded translation is a teaser
15:32 < hayashi> it makes people assume every teaser will become a full project eventually
15:32 < cloudii> rendering ATP unnecessary
15:32 <&DarkoNeko> hayashi, that seems to be the goal of the teasers, tho
15:33 < hayashi> hm
15:33 < cloudii> that's why 2/67 projects in the teaser section have ATP tags
15:33 < Misogi> If I may say a word, I saw some English projects with the ATP tag, to make sure that they end in the sidebar.
15:33 < krytyk> translators try to avoid the regulations
15:33 < Kira0802> I think teasers can stay the way they are. ATP tag should be put only when a project meets requirements to become a full project (Basically, just for the mods to approve the project), and the one-week thing should be deleted
15:33 < hayashi> maybe I didn't phrase myself properly
15:33 < krytyk> you dont fight it with more regulations
15:33 < hayashi> like
15:33 < hayashi> teaser projects should only be tagged as teasers
15:33 < cloudii> So, at the very least, it looks like we're in favor of redefining the ATP tag
15:33 < Lery> Kira0802 +1
15:34 < hayashi> if the translator has no intention of continuing
15:34 < hayashi> because if he does intend to
15:34 < cloudii> I disagree with you hayashi
15:34 <&DarkoNeko> ah, that differentiation
15:34 < hayashi> then it's not really a teaser anymore
15:34 < krytyk> sounds good, so a translator tags the series with ATP, and a mod checks if it qualifies
15:34 < zzhk> the deletion warning is kind of misleading, because projects are sometimes tagged ATP for lacking a registration page
15:34 < cloudii> because the teasers tag is the only way to bring visibility to teasers
15:34 < krytyk> thus teaser + tag = full project (if fulfills the reqs)
15:34 < cloudii> ^that works too
15:35 < Misogi> ^ Yeah, it's not a bad idea.
15:35 < Kira0802> hayashi, the problem is that if you don't tage your series a teaser, you have no visibility in the sidebar
15:35 < cloudii> there are many solutions to this that I think works well
15:35 < cloudii> Kira +1
15:35 < hayashi> aren't we getting rid of the sidebar?
15:35 <+Lord-Simon> That is for later
15:35 <&DarkoNeko> yes. 
15:35 <+Lord-Simon> wait
15:35 < cloudii> We're replacing it with links to categories
15:35 <&DarkoNeko> well, changing it
15:35 < cloudii> The only way for any new project to get visibility
15:35 < cloudii> is to either be in the English category
15:35 < cloudii> *English Teaser
15:35 < cloudii> or Light Novel Category
15:36 < cloudii> That's the rationale for most translators to tag teasers
15:36 < cloudii> when their project has not been approved yet
15:36 < hayashi> ok
15:36 < hayashi> but if
15:36 < Kira0802> So a pending project without a teaser tag becomes something like Moku-something Alice
15:36 < hayashi> we are getting rid of the deadline
15:36 < hayashi> translators won't have the need to tag their work as a teaser anymore, right?
15:36 < cloudii> No, they do
15:36 < hayashi> since they won't be under any deadline
15:36 < krytyk> aren't we changing the purpose of atp?
15:36 <+Lord-Simon> Vote yes or no to remove the deadline in the teaser.
15:37 < cloudii> there is no deadline for teaser...
15:37 < cloudii> there's a deadline for ATP
15:37 < krytyk> one sec simon, we discussed more so let's make a more complete conclusion for a vote
15:37 < rock96> ^what he said
15:37 <+Lord-Simon> ATP, sorry.
15:37 < Kira0802> Yea for ATP
15:37 < hayashi> ok
15:37 < hayashi> uh
15:37 <&DarkoNeko> people, it doesn't look like we will arrive to an agreement for the teaser and ATP thing today. I think it would be better for a small group to work on it on the side and then propose it on the forum/another meeting once it's ready
15:37 < hayashi> I'm gonna type out what I think
15:37 < krytyk> no. Cloudii, formulate a statement
15:37 <&DarkoNeko> we're having a good discussion and all, but at this rate we won't have time for any of the other subjects
15:37 < victorrama> True
15:37 < cloudii> um
15:38 < hayashi> teasers should be kept as teasers, but the atp deadline should be removed so that future translators have more flexibility
15:38 < hayashi> does that make sense?
15:38 < cloudii> We should remove the 1 week deadline for ATP
15:38 < Kira0802> yes, hayashi
15:38 < cloudii> require ATP to be tagged with all new project pages
15:38 < Vallor> Are you saying that teasers and new projects are the same thing? New projects should be in the LN category and teasers in a teaser category, that's all.
15:38 < cloudii> including Teaser pages
15:38 < cloudii> so the purpose of ATP
15:38 < cloudii> is for a mod to check the page
15:38 < hayashi> oh I'm saying teasers are seperate from new projects
15:38 < hayashi> any new project will have to be to tagged with ATP
15:38 < cloudii> but if the page is satisfactory, ATP can be removed
15:38 < hayashi> ^
15:38 < cloudii> the teaser tag is kept
15:38 < cloudii> that's my proposal
15:38 < krytyk> mm, ATP for all projects that have at least 1 chapter not including prologue. And then the ATP pages are to be judged by a mod.
15:39 < krytyk> isnt that better cloudi
15:39 < Kira0802> @Vallor Pending approval are reffered as New projects here, vallor
15:39 < Lery> Actually the teaser tag should mean that it was translated just for fun and it's there to be discovered but that nobody is currently working further on it, isn't it ?
15:39 < cloudii> krytyk's suggestion is also satisfactory
15:39 < Vallor> ATP should be removed, or be added on new projects only. Teaser shouldn't have to be tagged as pending approval...
15:39 < cloudii> @Lery, that was the original definition, but practically that isn't the case anymore
15:39 < Kira0802> @Vallor or rather, those that are created but don't meet the requirements
15:39 < krytyk> thus teasers be teasers and can have just prologue, and ATP is a sign for mod to judge a series.
15:39 < krytyk> that wants to become a full project.
15:39 < cloudii> krytyk's proposal I'm in favor with as well
15:40 < Lery> @cloudii Well, isn't it because of that time limit we're wanting to remove ?
15:40 < hayashi> I'm ok with that
15:40 < cloudii> I would like to remove the time limit as well
15:40 < krytyk> the time limit is unneccesary then
15:40 < cloudii> Someone with supervisor access needs to rewrite the entire tag
15:40 < krytyk> as it already has 1 chapter when the tag is put on.
15:40 < Misogi> May someone clarify the changes and launch the vote?
15:40 < cloudii> http://i.imgur.com/JC6zsLM.png
15:40 < Kira0802> OK, so remove time limit, use tag just for upgrade.
15:40 < Kira0802> Teasers stay teasers.
15:40 < hayashi> sounds good
15:40 < cloudii> 1). Teaser tag is the default tag to be put on new project
15:40 < krytyk> yup
15:41 < cloudii> 2). When the teaser reaches the requirements for full project, translator tags Pending
15:41 < cloudii> 3). Oni/DarkoNeko/Vaelis approve
15:41 < cloudii> that's it
15:41 <+Lord-Simon> yes
15:41 <+Lord-Simon> Or any other Supervisor
15:41 < krytyk> simplifies a ton, and no hanging pending projects in a separate category.
15:41 < cloudii> Can we vote to agree?
15:41 < Kira0802> OK
15:41 < hayashi> simon call for a vote?
15:41 < Misogi> May I add something?
15:42 <+Lord-Simon> We are now voting for cloudii's summary
15:42 < Vallor> By full project, you mean a series completely translated?
15:42 <&DarkoNeko> no
15:42 <+Lord-Simon> Vote yes if you agree, no if you disagree
15:42 < cloudii> full project, meaning like "sidebar project"
15:42 < Kira0802> No, a full project=project in the sidebar
15:42 <&DarkoNeko> okay, please repeat exact what we are voting for, cloudii
15:42 < Vallor> Okay, so I'm agree
15:42 < cloudii> : 1). Teaser tag is the default tag to be put on new project
15:42 <&DarkoNeko> then everyone vote
15:42 < cloudii> : 2). When the teaser reaches the requirements for full project, translator tags Pending
15:42 < cloudii> 3). Oni/DarkoNeko/Vaelis approve
15:42 < cloudii> (or some supervisor)
15:43 <+Lord-Simon> Vote yes or no
15:43 < Kira0802> Yea
15:43 < cloudii> Yes
15:43 < Cthaeh> yes
15:43 < krytyk> yes
15:43 < rock96> Yep
15:43 < hayashi> yes
15:43 < stellarroze> yes
15:43 <+Lord-Simon> if you vote no, explain yourself after the vote
15:43 < Code-Zero> yes
15:43 < Vallor> Yes but what's happened to the deadline?
15:43 < Misogi> Yes (although the Alt. Languages situation should be clarified).
15:43 < hayashi> it will be gone
15:43 < cloudii> We'll discuss that next
15:43 <&DarkoNeko> removed
15:43 <+Lord-Simon> Deadlinewill beremoved
15:43 < cloudii> Okay
15:43 < cloudii> that works too
15:43 < cloudii> <3
15:43 <&DarkoNeko> yes
15:43 -!- Nurin [~nurin@Rizon-785CF46A.cslce700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
15:43 <&DarkoNeko> well, the point 3 is a bit of pickle, but it seems glboally good
15:43 < Lery> yes
15:43 < krytyk> deadline is removed, as the tag is only to be put after 1 chapter (prologue aside) is to be already finished.
15:44 < Lery> Any supervisor can handle point 3 I thinl
15:44 < cloudii> Onto next point?
15:44 < Lery> Any supervisor can handle point 3 I think*
15:44 <+Lord-Simon> yes
15:44 < Vallor> thAgree with Lery
15:44 < cloudii> Point 3 is like this now, because only those individuals ahve sidebar access
15:44 < Vallor> Agree*
15:44 < Kira0802> ^
15:44 < cloudii> but if we lose the sidebar, I'm in favor for any supervisor approval
15:44 < Lery> @Cloudii, let's go. Shouldn't we talk about sidebar modification ?
15:44 < Kira0802> it's not anyone who can put projects on the sidebar atm
15:44 < zzhk> so for substandard projects (e.g. no translated content), the deletion template (http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Category:Speedy_Deletion) will be slapped on instead of ATP﹖
15:45 < cloudii> Thank you zzhk, I agree with that too
15:45 < Misogi> There's the exception of Alt. Lang., where supervisors handle that.
15:45 <&DarkoNeko> should't it be normal deletion, ratehr than speedy ? actually, do we have a normal deletion process ?
15:45 < hayashi> I'm good with that
15:45 <&DarkoNeko> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Talk:Meeting:March302014#teaser_status_.2F_ATP alright, it's written down
15:45 < cloudii> Also, can we assign someone
15:45 <+Lord-Simon> No we don'T
15:45 < hayashi> deleting without warning
15:45 < cloudii> to rewrite this:
15:45 < cloudii> http://i.imgur.com/JC6zsLM.png
15:45 < cloudii> It's protected
15:45 < hayashi> might be vandalism
15:45 <+Lord-Simon> we should discuss the deletion process
15:45 < Kira0802> Darko can
15:45 < hayashi> or not give the guy a fair chance to upload stuff
15:45 <+Lord-Simon> but that is later for the forum
15:46 <&DarkoNeko> we'll do the deed later
15:46 < Kira0802> nxt point?
15:46 < victorrama> Yes
15:46 < cloudii> Okay
15:46 <&DarkoNeko> alright. What is the next point, then ?
15:46 < cloudii> Point 3
15:46 < cloudii> There are number of instances int he rules
15:46 < cloudii> that require members to "email" supervisors
15:46 < cloudii> .......
15:46 < hayashi> this is a related point
15:46 < cloudii> Remove all references thereof 
15:46 < hayashi> but a lot of the supervisors listed are no longer active
15:46 <+Lord-Simon> yes, looks like it
15:46 < cloudii> of that form of contact
15:47 < Misogi> I agree on making a single page for contact.
15:47 <+Lord-Simon> but if we look at the discussion before
15:47 < krytyk> either forums, direct (irc) contact, or PM
15:47 <+Lord-Simon> we can remove that part
15:47 < Kira0802> Darko
15:47 < zzhk> speaking of "supervisors", we should prioritize the issue of wiki supervisor protection rights
15:47 <&DarkoNeko> let's do it properly people
15:47 <+Lord-Simon> as any supervisor will go through newly created project
15:47 <+Lord-Simon> if they have the tags
15:47 <&DarkoNeko> Lord-Simon, starting the vote ? there's not much to discuss here XD
15:47 < cloudii> Actually, I really want to echo zzhk here (if DarkoNeko is capable of doing anything abou tit)
15:47 <+Lord-Simon> Wait
15:48 < Vallor> Misogi is right. A single page of contact is good enough.
15:48 <+Lord-Simon> We are talking about a mail-list creating
15:48 <+Lord-Simon> *creation.
15:48 < cloudii> Um, acutally yeah
15:48 <&DarkoNeko> argh, what
15:48 <+Lord-Simon> mailing list
15:48 < cloudii> DarkoNeko I neglected to explain half of my thing
15:48 <&DarkoNeko> I don't want that, i hate mails
15:48 < Lery> @zzhk, we're waiting for TLG before talking about those administrative problems ;)
15:48 < cloudii> so, the issue is
15:48 <&DarkoNeko> no way i'm getting on another mailing list
15:48 < cloudii> currently members are told to contact "A supervisor"
15:48 < cloudii> preferably all of them
15:48 < cloudii> but we all know that they usually only contact one
15:49 < cloudii> but if a translator looking for project approval
15:49 <+Lord-Simon> That's why a mailing list
15:49 < cloudii> posts on TLG's talk page
15:49 < cloudii> clearly it's not going to get lookd at
15:49 <+Lord-Simon> or one mail, that sens to many
15:49 < Misogi> "Create a single location on the Wiki where administrative requests can be made.", as Cloudii wrote in his topic.
15:49 < Kira0802> Can we just create a page on the Wiki for "Requests" or something?
15:49 < Lery> Yeah, that's a major problem.
15:49 <&DarkoNeko> no no no
15:49 <&DarkoNeko> not a mailing list. 
15:49 <+Lord-Simon> What else ?
15:49 < cloudii> If we have no mailing list, it's okay too
15:50 < Lery> We could either use a topic on the forum for that purpose, or a dedicated Wiki page, couldn't we ?
15:50 < Kira0802> So a wiki page?
15:50 <&DarkoNeko> especially when we can just have a maintenance page dedicated to that on the wiki
15:50 < cloudii> "Create a single location on the Wiki where administrative requests can be made."
15:50 < Lery> Or even both
15:50 < cloudii> That's the proposal
15:50 <&DarkoNeko> yes, like a wikipedia's request for deletion, for maintenance, for adminship etc
15:50 < Kira0802> Then...we settle for a wiki page?
15:50 < rock96> um, what about simply forwarding people to the forum directly to make a thread?
15:50 < cloudii> Registration issues with forums
15:50 < cloudii> captcha
15:50 < hayashi> forum wiki integration is a seprate issue
15:50 <&DarkoNeko> the more things directly on the wiki the better
15:50 < cloudii> "Create a single location on the Wiki where administrative requests can be made."
15:50 < Lery> I think that we could go with both : one wiki page for wiki addicts and one forum page for forum addicts...
15:50 < cloudii> Anyone against this?
15:50 <+Lord-Simon> no
15:50 < Kira0802> No
15:50 <&DarkoNeko> no
15:51 <+Lord-Simon> two instances is bad
15:51 < Vallor> A 'Link here the project you would like to be approved' wiki page
15:51 < rock96> guests are allowed to make posts. And we're lurking around approving posts...
15:51 < Misogi> May I add something?
15:51 <+Lord-Simon> really bad
15:51 <+Lord-Simon> yes
15:51 < Kira0802> misogi, just say something lol, don't ask
15:51 < krytyk> Vallor, we already have decided ATP tag for that
15:51 < cloudii> ^^
15:51 < Lery> @Lord-Simon, I don't think so : there are as much supervisor on the forum as on the wiki...
15:51 < Misogi> We should divide it into sections (languages, approval...), and delete regularly the things once they're done.
15:51 < Vallor> krytyk:  Isn't it exactly the same issue? I'm lost...
15:51 < krytyk> its not
15:52 < victorrama> Most suoervisors do nothing
15:52 < cloudii> "Assign an individual to clean that page of off-topic and resolved material. "
15:52 <&DarkoNeko> Lery, can't be, I mean, i don't have a forum account
15:52 < krytyk> we're speaking about sueprvisors-only things to do
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15:52 < cloudii> Yes Misogi <3
15:52 < Misogi> Then I'm on the idea. Summary?
15:52 < krytyk> Protecting pages a prime example.
15:52 < cloudii> Yup
15:52 < cloudii> 1). Create a single location on the Wiki where administrative requests can be made. This should be at location that all sysops/supervisors monitor.
15:52 < Misogi> Protection -> Yes.
15:52 < cloudii> 2). Assign an individual to clean that page of off-topic and resolved material. (I'll even volunteer myself if no one wants to do it).
15:52 < cloudii> That's it
15:52 < Kira0802> Yea
15:53 <&DarkoNeko> the point 2 is a problem
15:53 < Lery> @DarkoNeko : it's not a problem, you'll handle the wiki request and the supervisors with forum account will handle the forum's ones...
15:53 < krytyk> the same person who grants the requests should delete it
15:53 < Misogi> ^
15:53 <+Lord-Simon> ^
15:53 < cloudii> That's fair too <3
15:53 <&DarkoNeko> krytyk, that, yes
15:53 <+Lord-Simon> 1). Create a single location on the Wiki where administrative requests can be made. This should be at location that all sysops/supervisors monitor.
15:53 <&DarkoNeko> but for other stuff, having a pool of people rather than "an individual" is better
15:53 < Vallor> I'm agree with krytyk 
15:54 < cloudii> Sure, my wording was bad. My intent was just to say that the page needs to get cleaned
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15:54 < Misogi> "I agree", Vallor.
15:54 < Lery> Having only one individual is always bad, we never know what may happen.
15:54 <+Lord-Simon>   2). Any supervisor that grants the ok to a request will delete the request.
15:54 <+Lord-Simon> *an ok
15:54 < cloudii> Motion for Simon's proposal?
15:54 < Vallor> Misogi: Sorry, I always make this mistake...
15:54 <&DarkoNeko> Lord-Simon, that's pretty much a given
15:54 <+Lord-Simon> yes
15:54 < Misogi> Yes.
15:54 < cloudii> yes
15:54 < Kira0802> Yea
15:54 < rock96> Yes.
15:54 <&DarkoNeko> agreed
15:54 < krytyk> y
15:55 < Lery> yes
15:55 < cloudii> Motion accepted… apparently?
15:55 <+Lord-Simon> YEs
15:55 <+Lord-Simon> it is accepted
15:55 < hayashi> yes
15:55 < Kira0802> Indeed...next point?
15:55 <+Lord-Simon> ^
15:55 < cloudii> Okay, I'm going to skip Point 4 on my outline
15:55 <+Lord-Simon> wait
15:55 -!- victorrama [~androirc@41D8297B.4615ADF7.130F235D.IP] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:55 < cloudii> that'll take too much time
15:55 <+Lord-Simon> just tell about point 4
15:55 <+Lord-Simon> for information
15:55 < Kira0802> ^
15:56 < cloudii> It's a bunch of topics that I suggested that we create rules for
15:56 < Kira0802> err
15:56 < Misogi> Since you gave the things to add...
15:56 < cloudii> for example, the Wiki lacks general behavior rules
15:56 -!- masoatwork [~androirc@EC912BFE.941EDA59.130F235D.IP] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
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15:56 < cloudii> Or well,
15:56 < Kira0802> let's move that to the forums then?
15:56 <&DarkoNeko> "don't be a dick or we'll ban you"
15:56 < cloudii> Well, do people want to discuss this?
15:56 < hayashi> no
15:56 < Misogi> No need.
15:56 < Kira0802> no
15:56 <&DarkoNeko> nah, let's skip
15:56 <+Lord-Simon> not here
15:56 < cloudii> Fair
15:56 <+Lord-Simon> not now
15:56 < cloudii> Part 2: Migrate all the Wiki rules from the Forums, and archive the old rules.
15:57 < Misogi> Er, you forgot #5
15:57 <+Lord-Simon> Hmmm....
15:57 < Lery> We can discuss it later on the forum, Cloudii
15:57 <+Lord-Simon> I would disagree.
15:57 < cloudii> Oh. Actually, imo, it's unecessary if sidebar gets scrapped
15:57 < cloudii> (point 5 thatis)
15:57 <&DarkoNeko> I never was fond of having anything like that on the forum
15:57 <&DarkoNeko> a wiki reader won't go there to look for rules
15:57 < cloudii> Simon, can you explain why you disagree?
15:57 < Kira0802> Forums rule to the Wiki or Wiki Rules in the forum to the WIki?
15:57 <+Lord-Simon> We can have two identical versions on forums and on the wiki
15:57 < Kira0802> there's a difference here
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15:58 < cloudii> Forum rules on forums, Wiki rules on Wiki
15:58 < cloudii> remove Wiki rules on forums
15:58 < Lery> Yeah that should be so.
15:58 <+Lord-Simon> Ah
15:58 <+Lord-Simon> yes
15:58 < Kira0802> Yea
15:58 <&DarkoNeko> hmm, then putting a link to the wiki page on the forum
15:58 < Vallor> agreed
15:58 <+Lord-Simon> That explains it.
15:58 < cloudii> Yes, DarkoNeko
15:58 < Misogi> ^
15:58 < Cthaeh> yes
15:58 < krytyk> I suggest we discuss mechanics first, behavioural rules other day
15:58 < Lery> yes
15:58 <+Lord-Simon> So, I guess we don't even need to vote.
15:59 < victorrama> ^
15:59 < cloudii> Sure
15:59 < cloudii> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Baka-Tsuki:Rules
15:59 < cloudii> DarkoNeko, could you move the rules here?
15:59 < cloudii> and then link this onto the sidebar?
15:59 < Lery> That's mechanic ^^ It's about rules' location, not about the rules themselves.
15:59 <&DarkoNeko> ask me again after the meeting
15:59 < cloudii> Sure
15:59 <&DarkoNeko> I'm not doing anything until we finished
15:59 < Misogi> Don't forget to put a link on the Main Page.
15:59 < Lery> Aren't you already taking the minutes ?
15:59 < cloudii> Last
15:59 < cloudii> Part 3: Create comprehensive Help Pages to improve the experience of brand-new members.
15:59 < cloudii> I just want official recognition for this
16:00 <&DarkoNeko> Lery, loosely, i'm only putting the votes
16:00 < cloudii> no writing being done here....
16:00 < krytyk> Not really an issue we need to discuss IMHO.
16:00 < Lery> I guess your multitasking has limits '^^
16:00 <&DarkoNeko> I'll try whoever is keeping logs to make a better version later
16:00 < cloudii> Can we get official recognition for the support of creating help pages?
16:00 < Lery> You have my approval Cloudii
16:00 < cloudii> yes/no
16:00 <+Lord-Simon> If I remember right, cloudii, you have made a page for that
16:00 < krytyk> well, yes
16:00 < Lery> Go ahead make us nice help pages ^^
16:00 <&DarkoNeko> ...does this REALLY need to be voted ? it seems like a given
16:00 <+Lord-Simon> ^
16:00 < Kira0802> Yea
16:00 < cloudii> I've never gotten direct approval from anyone… so....
16:00 < krytyk> thats what i said;
16:00 <&DarkoNeko> the dissent would be on what to put exactly on pages
16:00 <+Lord-Simon> just add it to the list that will be done
16:01 < cloudii> Cool, okay, that covers everything from my end
16:01 < Misogi> There's also the problem of visibility.
16:01 < Lery> yeah, if you had taken initiative to do it on your own, nobody would have complained ;)
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16:01 <&DarkoNeko> cloudii, on a wiki, if you wait for approvals nothing ever gets done
16:01 < Misogi> Sure, there are rules, but if you can't find them easily...
16:01 <+Lord-Simon> Gonna mail TLG
16:01 <+Lord-Simon> *sigh*
16:02 < Kira0802> we'll just post there on the sidebar/main page, misogi
16:02 < Lery> Yeah, those help pages should be located so that you find them easily.
16:02 < krytyk> where does he live, lets raid him;
16:02 -!- xiiao [~xiiao@FA5F5508.D2E8E806.F4A5449C.IP] has quit []
16:02 < Misogi> Should be sleeping.
16:02 < Kira0802> i saw his phone number
16:02 < Lery> Ahahah, he's on the west cost, isn't he ?
16:02 < Kira0802> wanna call him?
16:02 <&DarkoNeko> let him sleep
16:02 < rock96> ...huh?
16:02 < Lery> Anybody has him on skype ?
16:03 < Kira0802> lolno
16:03 <&DarkoNeko> better no TLG than a very pissed TLG ^^;
16:03 < cloudii> I suppose this meeting will get rescheduled for another day for the other adminstrative stuff
16:03 < krytyk> though its going to be a pain if he turns out after everyone leaves
16:03 < hayashi> should take the time to settle the stuff that doesn't need tlg
16:03 <&DarkoNeko> well, i have a few points, but we already had discussed them on a smaller group and partially implemented them (until i got too busy ^^;)
16:03 <+Lord-Simon> no
16:03 <+Lord-Simon> I will be here
16:03 <+Lord-Simon> for the next few hours
16:04 <+Lord-Simon> I can look out for him
16:04 < cloudii> "Wrong link leading to the wiki's Copyrights page."
16:04 < cloudii> DarkoNeko can do that, right? 8D
16:04 < Kira0802> we'll just vote on issues and ask TLG to approve, and the decision belongs to him
16:04 <&DarkoNeko> yeah, that has little to do with TLG lol
16:04 < cloudii> We could do what Kira said too
16:04 <+Lord-Simon> ah
16:04 < Lery> Yeah, that's jsut a
16:04 < Lery> Yeah, that's just a ".net" at the bad place
16:04 < Misogi> Not really.
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16:05 <&DarkoNeko> yes, details of link change later, please
16:05 <+Lord-Simon> @DarkoNeko, do you have access to the blog ?
16:05 < cloudii> DarkoNeko, as a wiki sysop, can you assign usergroups powers or is that no?
16:05 < Misogi> Already written?
16:05 <+Lord-Simon> Of B-T ?
16:05 < Misogi> .*
16:05 <&DarkoNeko> cloudii, I can assign people to select groups, but I cannot create new groups
16:05 -!- kry [~whocares@Rizon-B4CA13F1.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
16:06 <&DarkoNeko> Lord-Simon, not tha tI know of
16:06 < cloudii> Thanks, so you can't help us xD
16:06 < cloudii> Let's go to groups reorganization
16:06 < cloudii> rename exactly who to remove off the groups
16:06 < cloudii> and who to put on
16:06 < Lery> @Lord-Simon : I think Kira0802 has access to the blog...
16:06 < hayashi> that's more for forums, right?
16:06 < Misogi> Inactive members, that's a given.
16:06 <&DarkoNeko> defining inactivity. is that "over a year" ?
16:06 < Misogi> I'd rather say 6 months.
16:06 <+Lord-Simon> So, we are now discussing the Users of certain groups
16:06 < kry> its "ever since forever"
16:06 <&DarkoNeko> and condition for them to get the right back if they come back, as well
16:06 < cloudii> We're also talking about forum usergroups
16:07 <+Lord-Simon> and the rearrangement ?
16:07 <&DarkoNeko> eh, do that on the forum, I'm only interested in the wiki :D
16:07 < zzhk> I think DarkoNeko misunderstood cloudii's question on wiki user groups, rather than creating new groups﹐ can you modify a group's powers?
16:07 < cloudii> brb
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16:07 < Misogi> Well, remove all inactive members from all groups.
16:07 < Lery> Why remove them ? Just add new people if old people go MIA
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16:07 < Misogi> In case they get hacked.
16:08 < Misogi> That's a decent reason.
16:08 < Vallor> Inactive members -> people who didn't posted any work since 6 months at least, or people we don't have news since a while?
16:08 <&DarkoNeko> zzhk, not that I know of
16:08 < Lery> Well, from that POV, I think it's true the more people with rights, the more risks we have that someone get hacked.
16:08 <&DarkoNeko> Lery, it's so people don't ask inactive to do things
16:08 <+Lord-Simon> Well, I can edit Digital Editors, Project Editors and tsukaima legion
16:08 <&DarkoNeko> but yeah, there's also the hacking possibility
16:09 <+Lord-Simon> well
16:09 <&DarkoNeko> hmm
16:09 < krytyk> wait. separate wiki and forums issues
16:09 <&DarkoNeko> anyway, let's simplify the motion for now.
16:09 < krytyk> now we are talking about wiki
16:09 < rock96> Judging by what I've seen, no need to discuss Tsukaima Legion
16:09 < zzhk> is there any incentive to hack B-T wiki accounts, however?
16:09 < krytyk> forums later.
16:09 < Lery> @Lord-Simon : isn't that on the forum ?
16:09 <+Lord-Simon> yes
16:09 < Lery> ok
16:09 <+Lord-Simon> are we talking about the wiki ?
16:09 <&DarkoNeko> zzhk, the same as hacking wikiepdia admin account, but people do
16:09 < Misogi> A spammer with a hacked account will cause more damage.
16:10 < Lery> Are we discussing about forum's groups or wiki's currently ?
16:10 < Misogi> Wiki.
16:10 < Misogi> Forum is kept for TLG.
16:10 < Vallor> Misogi: A ban wouldn't be enough?
16:10 < cloudii> I see no particular reason to remove inactive Wiki supervisors, if we have a single location for placing administrative requests
16:10 < Misogi> You have to clean up the mess.
16:10 < Lery> Actually Oni has the needed rights to do the needed modifications on the forum...
16:11 < Kira0802> cloudii is right
16:11 <&DarkoNeko> I feel we should have a minimum activity setting for removal, nonetheless. even if it's a long long time
16:11 < Vallor> Misogi: You just have to delete all the recent changes...
16:11 < hayashi> it's more for decluttering
16:11 <+Lord-Simon> well, there is the http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Special:ActiveUsers
16:11 <+Lord-Simon> but it's limited to the last 30 days
16:11 < cloudii> that's one month activity
16:11 < Vallor> remove*
16:11 < cloudii> I was just reminded of something....
16:12 < cloudii> Do we have protocol for dealing with inactive project supervisors?
16:12 < hayashi> nope
16:12 < Kira0802> no
16:12 <&DarkoNeko> none
16:12 <+Lord-Simon> No
16:12 < cloudii> okay, do we want protocol?
16:12 <&DarkoNeko> I do
16:12 <+Lord-Simon> Yes
16:12 -!- victorrama [~androirc@EC912BFE.941EDA59.130F235D.IP] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
16:12 < Kira0802> RIP Nera. ;_;
16:12 < cloudii> Okay, I'll propose something on the spot
16:12 <+Lord-Simon> Protocol is always good
16:12 <&DarkoNeko> since there wil lbe dissent on the exact duration, we should take the longest for now
16:12 < cloudii> 6 months inactivity is definition for inactvity
16:13 < rock96> all hail commie wiki
16:13 < cloudii> Someone who would like the position
16:13 <&DarkoNeko> I propose that anyone with over a year of inactivity will lose his right
16:13 < cloudii> should contact a Wiki Supervisor
16:13 < cloudii> The Wiki Supervisor
16:13 <+Lord-Simon> hello
16:13 < cloudii> can judge whether the Project Supervisor
16:13 < cloudii> should be replaced
16:13 <+Lord-Simon> or sysop ?
16:13 < Kira0802> kk
16:13 < cloudii> the end
16:13 <&DarkoNeko> and that, should they come back withing a year after that, could regain those rights on simple demand
16:13 < Vallor> cloudii: what's your definition of 'inactivity'?
16:13 < cloudii> Hmm...
16:13 <&DarkoNeko> no action on wiki
16:13 <&DarkoNeko> none at all
16:14 < cloudii> I think that, anyone should be able to place a request
16:14 < hayashi> what's the current setting anyway
16:14 < cloudii> to be instated over an apparent Project Supervisor
16:14 < hayashi> the project super defaults to the head translator?
16:14 < cloudii> but for reference of the Administration
16:14 <&DarkoNeko> cloudii, you're kinda assumed we have a limited number of seats
16:14 < Kira0802> no action, no sign of presence, no demand of absence
16:14 <&DarkoNeko> -ed+ing
16:14 <+Lord-Simon> brb
16:14 < cloudii> @hayashi, nothing. There name just stays there.
16:15 < hayashi> the 2nd thing is
16:15 < hayashi> what rights do project supers have
16:15 < cloudii> All rights with regards to the project...
16:15 < cloudii> which is a lot
16:15 < Vallor> Kira0802: No sign of presence on the wiki or on the forum too?
16:15 < Kira0802> yeah
16:15 < Kira0802> boh
16:15 < cloudii> For example: "British English vs American English, etc"
16:16 < Vallor> Kira0802:  ok, thx
16:16 < cloudii> Okay, so we can just say:
16:16 <&DarkoNeko> uh, so, we include the forum ? meh
16:16 < cloudii> 1) If a Project Supervisor has no sign of presence on the wiki or on the forum too, a translator can request to become to new project supervisor
16:16 <+Lord-Simon> Darko
16:16 <&DarkoNeko> me
16:16 <+Lord-Simon> Go create an account
16:16 <&DarkoNeko> no.
16:16 <+Lord-Simon> I'll answer the question
16:16 <+Lord-Simon> GO
16:17 < Kira0802> on the wiki and on the forums*, cloudii
16:17 < hayashi> lol
16:17 <&DarkoNeko> i have nothing to do there
16:17 < hayashi> neko
16:17 < Kira0802> oh wait
16:17 < Kira0802> misread
16:17 < Kira0802> w/e
16:17 < cloudii> (I just copy pasted) lol
16:17 <&DarkoNeko> for me, there is only the wiki, and IRC
16:17 <+Lord-Simon> damn cat
16:17 <+Lord-Simon> what if I give you an acc ?
16:17 <&DarkoNeko> wikipedia ain't need no stinking forums
16:17 <&DarkoNeko> no.
16:17 < Vallor> If you're active on the wiki, that's enough.
16:17 <&DarkoNeko> I won't use it. I don't have time to read forums
16:18 < Kira0802> No sign of presence means no one has seen you
16:18 < Kira0802> this includes forums and wiki
16:18 < cloudii> Forum & Wiki or Wiki Only?
16:18 <&DarkoNeko> well, before that, let's do a more genera thing
16:18 < cloudii> vote
16:18 <&DarkoNeko> no, no, no, that's too precise
16:18 < Kira0802> Forum & Wiki 
16:18 < cloudii> DarkoNeko explain?
16:18 < Vallor> I'd add social networks/mails as well...
16:18 <&DarkoNeko> so, starting with basics : 
16:19 < Kira0802> If a supervisor's not there on the wiki and just on the forums, you can throw a PM at him
16:19 <&DarkoNeko> cloudii, we were talking about inactivity in general, now you're on proejcts supervisors on particular
16:19 < cloudii> project supervisors in general
16:19 < cloudii> in this instance
16:19 < cloudii> because there's only one position for it
16:19 <&DarkoNeko> "anyone with over a year of inactivity will lose his rights on the wiki."
16:19 < cloudii> Are we voting?
16:19 <+Lord-Simon> as a project supervisors
16:19 <+Lord-Simon> *r
16:20 < Kira0802> project admins/supervisors
16:20 <+Lord-Simon> Hmm...
16:20 <&DarkoNeko> do project supervisors have physical rights ?
16:20 < Kira0802> a random editor doesn't need to have his rights revoked, since we don't care
16:20 <&DarkoNeko> I'm talking about wiki groups ^^;
16:20 < Kira0802> project editors can lock pages
16:20 < cloudii> @DarkoNeko. There is no project supervisor wiki group
16:20 < Kira0802> supervisors*
16:20 <&DarkoNeko> then they're on  a particular group
16:20 < Kira0802> @cloudii there is
16:20 < Kira0802> well
16:20 < cloudii> there's a wiki supervisor group
16:20 < Kira0802> just "supervisor" though
16:21 <&DarkoNeko> let's do that on a few sets, then. 1) general activity 2) specifically for project supervisor replacement ?
16:21 < cloudii> yes, and we've taken tht�at to mean "Adminstration"
16:21 < Lery> Actually a lot of Project Supervisor aren't even Wiki Supervisors...
16:21 < cloudii> ^^
16:21 < Kira0802> that's not intended 
16:21 < Kira0802> though.
16:21 <&DarkoNeko> all the more reason to have 2 separate motions
16:21 < cloudii> Can we start with DarkoNeko's motion?
16:21 < hayashi> wiki super and project super are two different level right
16:21 <+Lord-Simon> Well, because the projects have two things
16:22 <+Lord-Simon> as supervisor and an admin
16:22 <+Lord-Simon> in name only
16:22 < Misogi> We should rename it with "Project Manager"
16:22 < Lery> What's the point in having an Project Admin and a Project Supervisor, by the way ? What's the differences between both ?
16:22 < krytyk> ^Like misogi says
16:22 < Lery> -an+a
16:22 < krytyk> Supervisor is unclear at this point
16:22 < cloudii> Imo, project supervisor should not have to be an official member of administration
16:22 < hayashi> project admin is a carry over from the old days I think
16:22 < Vallor> Yeah, administrators and supervisors are a big mess, especially for Alt. laguages
16:22 < krytyk> there are wiki supervisors, and project supervisors
16:22 < Kira0802> Alt. languages are a big mess
16:22 < cloudii> I would like project supervisor to be the senior/leading translator
16:22 <&DarkoNeko> we're drfiting away again ._.
16:22 <+Lord-Simon> For me, as I see it.
16:22 < Kira0802> it's not about supervisors/admins for alt projects
16:23 < krytyk> Okay, can I write out few problems and possible solutions?
16:23 < Lery> And the project admin to be someone with Wiki Supervisor Rights ?
16:23 < stellarroze> my oh my
16:23 <&DarkoNeko> krytyk, a bit later~
16:23 < Kira0802> fuck
16:23 < Kira0802> this is getting confusing
16:23 < krytyk> its for this topic~
16:23 < stellarroze> merge project supervisors and administrators
16:23 <+Lord-Simon> The project admin is a person who is responsible for the project and that the guidelines of the project are "used/enforced".
16:23 <&DarkoNeko> arg, mergin and renaming LATER
16:23 < Lery> ^+1
16:23 < stellarroze> into one position
16:23 < Kira0802> they are meant for different things
16:23 < Misogi> To avoid confusion, "Project Sup. -> Project Manager".
16:23 < Misogi> Can be anyone.
16:23 <&DarkoNeko> the subject is inactivity and then project supervisor replacement for now
16:23 < Vallor> Admins and supervisors should be a single group renamed on 'project manager'
16:24 <+Lord-Simon> The supervisor is a person who can be contacted and knows some details about that project.
16:24 <&DarkoNeko> all the rest is for after
16:24 < krytyk> we talk about Wiki supervisors or project supervisors darko
16:24 < krytyk> thats the peoint
16:24 < krytyk> point*
16:24 < Kira0802> Imagine the difference of wiki right an editor has in comparison with a TLer. Now, change editor to admin and TLer to supervisor
16:24 < krytyk> make it clear
16:24 < Kira0802> that's how I see the diff
16:24 <&DarkoNeko> I'm talking about inactivity
16:24 <+Lord-Simon> Better is that the Supervisor, is a real supervisor and can lock and protect pages
16:24 < Lery> Inactivity was already well defined I think...
16:24 < krytyk> yes, but you mean supervisors with rights, or project supervisors
16:24 <&DarkoNeko> Lery, but not voted
16:24 < Lery> Lord-Simon +1
16:24 < cloudii> I disagree with Simon
16:25 < Kira0802> Can we just merge Project supervisors with Wiki supervisors?
16:25 < Lery> But the Project Admin, right ?
16:25 <+Lord-Simon> No
16:25 <&DarkoNeko> krytyk, the first point is anyone being in a right group on the wiki, the 2nd point will be about local project (LN) managers
16:25 < krytyk> no
16:25 < krytyk> exactly
16:25 < cloudii> because there's a lot of translators who would like to manage their projects
16:25 <&DarkoNeko> so, let's get the first point ou t of the way, please
16:25 < krytyk> so you talk about wiki supervisors and their inactivity
16:25 < krytyk> now we can vote.
16:25 < cloudii> Actually, I favor going back to DarkoNeko's topic
16:25 <&DarkoNeko> not wiki supervisor. any group with more right than the defaulty
16:25 < Lery> The Project Supervisor becomes Project Manager and the Project Admin has to have Supervisors' rights... 
16:26 <&DarkoNeko> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Special:ListGroupRights <- we have all those groups
16:26 < Lery> What's the point about voting to define inactivity ???
16:26 < Vallor> What exactly are we talking about right now? About groups or inactivity?
16:26 <&DarkoNeko> so
16:26 < cloudii> Simon, you're the chair ;)
16:26 < rock96> Shuffling with editors and translators is going to be the pain...
16:26 <+Lord-Simon> Ok
16:26 -!- nanodesuyo [nanodesuyo@slice.of.life] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
16:26 <+Lord-Simon> First of all
16:27 <+Lord-Simon> we are voting for the inactivity period
16:27 < cloudii> Okay, DarkoNeko, can you repeat what we're voting for?
16:27 <&DarkoNeko> "anyone with over a year of inactivity will lose their special rights on the wiki."
16:27 < cloudii> Can we define special rights?
16:27 < Vallor> I don't like the '2 groups' idea...
16:27 <+Lord-Simon> one thing I wanted to say
16:28 -!- masoatwork [~androirc@41D8297B.4615ADF7.130F235D.IP] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
16:28 -!- masoatwork is now known as victorrama
16:28 <+Lord-Simon> do we really want a year inactivity ?
16:28 <&DarkoNeko> any group they were put in (editor, supervisor, etc)
16:28 -!- Gwilthyunman [cgiirc@E5106479.9E069113.A63A506B.IP] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
16:28 < krytyk> anyone above user
16:28 < Vallor> 6 months aren't enough?
16:28 < Kira0802>  special rights on the wiki.-->Project supervisor/admins
16:28 < hayashi> ^
16:28 <+Lord-Simon> My point is
16:28 <&DarkoNeko> Lord-Simon, it's purposelly large for now
16:28 <+Lord-Simon> It is.
16:28 <+Lord-Simon> Because
16:28 < krytyk> 6 months... unless they mentioned being away prior to that
16:28 <&DarkoNeko> I'm fairly sure we have people with 4 years od inactivity in those groups
16:29 <+Lord-Simon> 1. The passwords on the wiki are weak
16:29 <+Lord-Simon> 2
16:29 <&DarkoNeko> even wikipedia gives a 12 months period
16:29 <+Lord-Simon> 2. There is no password change enforcement.
16:29 <&DarkoNeko> both the french and the english version, as far as I know
16:29 < cloudii> Okay, so can I make a proposal?
16:29 <+Lord-Simon> go on
16:29 < Vallor> DarkoNeko: Everyone don't post everyday on Wikipedia...
16:29 < cloudii> 1). One year of inactivty = loss of physical wiki rights
16:29 < cloudii> 2). If you end up coming back, talk to a sysop to be reinstated
16:30 <&DarkoNeko> Vallor, wikipedia admins are supposed to be active epopel
16:30 < Kira0802> fine
16:30 <&DarkoNeko> cloudii, exactly
16:30 < cloudii> vote?
16:30 <&DarkoNeko> approve
16:30 < Kira0802> I can agree on that
16:30 < Kira0802> Yea
16:30 <+Lord-Simon> Ok, vote
16:30 < Cthaeh> vote yes
16:30 < rock96> yes
16:30 < Lery> yes
16:30 < hayashi> mondai nai
16:30 < krytyk> y
16:30 <&DarkoNeko> vote y
16:30 < Vallor> yes
16:30 < victorrama> Yea
16:30 <+Lord-Simon> yes, even if I'm sceptical
16:31 < Vallor> (I'm sure 6 months are good enough though)
16:31 < Kira0802> (Same)
16:31 < cloudii> (I personally don't care)
16:31 < Vallor> ^^
16:31 < rock96> (Not really)
16:31  * DarkoNeko thinks he already has been inactive for 6 months
16:31 < cloudii> xD but can we move along?
16:31 < rock96> lol
16:31 < Vallor> You can
16:31 <+Lord-Simon> Vote :  all approve
16:31 <+Lord-Simon> lol
16:31 < Misogi> Yes
16:32 <&DarkoNeko> well, not recently but somewhere between now and 2006
16:32 <+Lord-Simon> yes
16:32 < cloudii> okay, now onto the topic of the project/wiki supervisors........
16:32 < Kira0802> You can mark the length with an asterisk if it can be debated
16:32 <+Lord-Simon> Nect point ?
16:32  * Lery laught
16:32 <&DarkoNeko> so, secondary inactivity point, about the project leaders
16:32 < cloudii> OH right forgot
16:32 < cloudii> DarkoNeko's thing xD
16:32  * DarkoNeko blushes
16:32 <&DarkoNeko> what thing ?
16:32  * DarkoNeko hides
16:32 <+Lord-Simon> black thing
16:32  * Lord-Simon blushes
16:32 < cloudii> Okay: we left off on this
16:33 < Vallor> ...
16:33 < cloudii> inactivity defined as: Wiki only or total presence (including social media)
16:33 < Misogi> Total.
16:33 <&DarkoNeko> oh
16:33 <&DarkoNeko> uh. 
16:33 < Misogi> I mean, there may be reasons.
16:33 <&DarkoNeko> let's keep that vague
16:33 < Kira0802> dunno for social media
16:33 <&DarkoNeko> let's say forum and wiki both count
16:33 < cloudii> I'm for keeping it vague xD
16:34 < Kira0802> i'm not going to add a random guy on Facebook to talk to him about BT
16:34 < Misogi> "Any lack of presence"
16:34 <+Lord-Simon> Reachability
16:34 <&DarkoNeko> but ... well, social media, as in chatting with them on facebook or twitter ?  that's stretching it
16:34 < Kira0802> even though I'm already doing it.
16:34 <+Lord-Simon> that's what we are talking about
16:34 < Lery> Let's say you're active as long as you're sometimes on any BT-media...
16:34 < krytyk> as long as you show signs of life
16:34 < krytyk> lets leave it ambigious
16:34 < krytyk> but everyone knwos what it means
16:34 < Kira0802> Someone can check inactivity
16:34 < krytyk> lets not overcomplicate
16:34 < Lery> Yeah
16:34 <&DarkoNeko> that seems like stretching it
16:34 < cloudii> 1). If a Project Supervisor/Manager appears to be inactive
16:34 < Misogi> Or unless it was told beforehand.
16:35 <&DarkoNeko> we can easily check activity with the last post on the forum, or last edit on the wiki
16:35 <&DarkoNeko> but anything else if but a fuzzy thing, it's not hard data
16:35 < cloudii> 2). A translator may put in a request with Adminsitration, to be instated as the new Project Supervisor
16:35 < Kira0802> Let's settle for "has shown no sign of life"
16:35 < cloudii> and leave it to sysops/admins to decide
16:35 < Vallor> My point is inactivity should be 'people we don't have news since X months'
16:35 < cloudii> on a case-by case basis
16:35 < krytyk> lets discuss the subjects inactivity when we come down to it
16:35 < Lery> We could add in the rule that the said person is first asked through PM wheter (s)he's still active...
16:35 <+Lord-Simon> I'll say no to the no 2
16:35 < Lery> or not*
16:35 <+Lord-Simon> "as the new Project Supervisor"
16:35 < Kira0802> Nay to 2
16:36 < Kira0802> You leave it blank
16:36 < Kira0802> for the time being
16:36 <&DarkoNeko> Lery, hm, I don't really want people to just do 1 edit to keep their rights and then go awol for ayear again
16:36 < Lery> No, I disagree to 2 because we are mixing Project Supervisor with Wiki Supervisor there....
16:36 < cloudii> okay
16:36 < Misogi> May I propose something? (Will be long)
16:37 < cloudii> go ahead
16:37 < Vallor> DarkoNeko: +1
16:37 < Lery> Well, it'd be more polite from us to warn them first, no ?
16:37 < Misogi> First, rename Project Supervisors into Project Managers.
16:37 < Lery> Imagine we were to remove your Wiki rights because you were inactive for 370 days, you'd be pissed, no ?
16:37 < rock96> We can keep Supervisors busy before they go into the dark again, right? *grin*
16:37 <&DarkoNeko> Lery, I wouldn't notice, since I wasn't there :D
16:37 < Misogi> Anyone can become Manager.
16:37 < cloudii> Misogi +1
16:37 <&DarkoNeko> but from experience, yeah, a few ex wiki admin took it badly
16:37 < krytyk> lets listen to misogi now
16:38 < Kira0802> OK, fine with that
16:38 < krytyk> talking over one another is rude
16:38 <&DarkoNeko> even tho they were warned on their user talk page
16:38 < Vallor> Misogi: +1
16:38 < Lery> It costs us nothing to warn firstly I think
16:38 <&DarkoNeko> yes, a message on talk page
16:38 < Lery> @Misogi +1
16:38 <&DarkoNeko> ok, lemme add that on wiki
16:38 <+Lord-Simon> So, now we have "Project Admin" and "Project Managers" ?
16:39 < cloudii> So in this system: 1) Project Administrators are "Wiki supervisors" 2). Project Managers can be anymore (but preferably head translator)
16:39 <&DarkoNeko> Project Supervisors into Project Managers <- a short reason why ? do they have a particular physicial right currently ?
16:39 < Kira0802> I'm ok with that
16:39 < Misogi> For 1, Supervisors or above.
16:39 <+Lord-Simon> I'm confused by that too
16:39 < cloudii> Project Supervisors have no mod rights, but they have all rights with regards to translations
16:39 < cloudii> like "British English vs. American English"
16:39 < Lery> Well the term is currently misleading since Project Supervisors aren't official Wiki Supervisors
16:39 <+Lord-Simon> Because I see an admin responsible for the project
16:39 < Misogi> Well, it's to avoid confusions between Project and Wiki.
16:39 <&DarkoNeko> so, they're informal translation project leaders, in other words
16:39 < Kira0802> Let's replace project Admins by Wiki supervisor then
16:39 < cloudii> exactly, DarkoNeko
16:40 < Kira0802> no need to stay vague
16:40 <+Lord-Simon> Supervisors is the person who oversees if everything is ok, more or less
16:40 < cloudii> 1). Rename Project Admin to Wiki Supervisor
16:40 < Lery> @Kira0802 +1
16:40 <+Lord-Simon> and enters the scene when there are problems
16:40 < cloudii> 2). Rename Project Supervisor to Project Manager
16:40 < cloudii> Project manager can be anyone but does not have mod rights
16:40 <&DarkoNeko> Translation project leader sounds better to me
16:40 <&DarkoNeko> it's more self explanatory
16:40 <+Lord-Simon> ^
16:40 < cloudii> Project Leader?
16:40 < Misogi> Nah, I disagree.
16:40 <&DarkoNeko> project can be understood as the wiki as a whjole
16:40 < krytyk> Project bancho
16:41 < rock96> ...cult leader...
16:41 < Cthaeh> +1 project leader
16:41 <+Lord-Simon> nani ?
16:41 < hayashi> head translator
16:41 < krytyk> ^
16:41 < Lery> Leader sounds grandly to me...
16:41 < hayashi> would be simplier
16:41 < Kira0802> no
16:41 <+Lord-Simon> no
16:41 <&DarkoNeko> hmm
16:41 < Kira0802> head translator != project leader
16:41 <+Lord-Simon> hayashi, no
16:41 < cloudii> We have situations like Log Horizon
16:41 < Kira0802> see campione.
16:41 < cloudii> where the head translator isn't even on the wiki
16:41 <&DarkoNeko> head translator aslo has a feel of "above translators", but not related to a project in particular
16:41 < Misogi> "Project Supervisor -> Project Manager" ; "Project Adminstrator -> Supervisor in charge"
16:42 <+Lord-Simon> Misogi +1
16:42 <&DarkoNeko> urg, my poor head XD
16:42 < cloudii> Misogi -1, I'm sorry xD
16:42 < Kira0802> Who's that "Supervisor in charge"?
16:42 < Kira0802> Wiki sup?
16:42 < hayashi> wiki supers
16:42 <+Lord-Simon> remove the " in charge"
16:42 < cloudii> Prefer Kira's, "Wiki Supervisor"
16:42 < Misogi> I don't like putting "wiki" on a project.
16:42 <&DarkoNeko> wiki supervisor doesn't sound local to a translation project at all
16:42 < Misogi> post*
16:42 < rock96> Maybe get rid of Project Administrators entirely? 'Cept for special cases like Haganai
16:42 < Kira0802> ...Supervisor then?
16:42 <+Lord-Simon> Ok, let's do the following
16:43 < Kira0802> Just remove the "wiki" part
16:43 < Misogi> Ok then. Supervisor is enough.
16:43 < Vallor> 'Supervisor' is good
16:43 < cloudii> Alright, now Misogi +1
16:43 < cloudii> <3
16:43 <+Lord-Simon> as of now, no project has any "Project Adminstrator", not "Project Supervisor"
16:43 < rock96> Haganai?
16:43 < Kira0802> every project has a project admin
16:43 <&DarkoNeko> so, to have the def right : "supervisors are ... ?"
16:43 <+Lord-Simon> Create a name
16:43 <+Lord-Simon> and give it a meaning
16:43 < Kira0802> when it's blank, it's Onizuka-GTO by default
16:43 < Kira0802> lol
16:44 < Vallor> Supervisors are supervisors.
16:44 < cloudii> Well, http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3194
16:44 < Misogi> "Project Supervisor -> Project Manager (anyone)" ; "Project Administrator -> Supervisor (wiki supervisor or above"
16:44 < cloudii> To represent Oni's voice
16:44 < cloudii> and TLG who is not here
16:44 < cloudii> they once spoke about this topic
16:44 <+Lord-Simon> So...
16:44 <&DarkoNeko> supervisor imply it doesn't need to have much hand in the making, i like that
16:44 <+Lord-Simon> Vote for Misogi's option ?: "Project Supervisor -> Project Manager (anyone)" ; "Project Administrator -> Supervisor (wiki supervisor or above"
16:44 < cloudii> Yes
16:45 < krytyk> that should be okay.
16:45 < krytyk> yes
16:45 < Kira0802> Yea
16:45 < Lery> It's true that most project have an N/A as Project Admin / Supervisor currently...
16:45 < Vallor> Yeah
16:45 < Misogi> Yes (although I may not count)
16:45 < Lery> yes
16:45 < Cthaeh> yes, vote
16:45 <&DarkoNeko> i'd have preferred "translation project manager" for clarity, but I'll take that
16:45 < cloudii> Onizuka once voiced TLG's opinion that all the positions need to be filled
16:46 < cloudii> Okay, resolved?
16:46 < rock96> 'K, I think
16:46 < cloudii> Okay, so backtrack to the last point
16:46 <+Lord-Simon> no
16:46 < cloudii> Project Manager inactivity?
16:46 <&DarkoNeko> so
16:46 <&DarkoNeko> wait
16:46 <+Lord-Simon> ^
16:46 <&DarkoNeko> Project Manager, does he need to be one of rhe translators ?
16:46 < Kira0802> No,
16:46 < rock96> Not really?
16:46 <+Lord-Simon> no
16:46 -!- coldacid [~chris@DC3BF32E.EBC55585.5F3AA997.IP] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
16:46 < Lery> No
16:46 < cloudii> usually, but doesn't have to be
16:46 <&DarkoNeko> that sounds a bit weird
16:46 < Misogi> No, but it'd be better.
16:46 < Kira0802> It's not.
16:47 < Misogi> It can be an editor.
16:47 < Kira0802> An editor can do the job.
16:47 < cloudii> should be the most invested individual in the project
16:47 < Misogi> Or someone else more experienced on BT.
16:47 < Lery> Well, Project Manager should be able to use the wiki correctly and to take decision when it's needed, that's it.
16:47 < Vallor> Why an editor wouldn't have th rights to be a project manager...?
16:47 <&DarkoNeko> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Talk:Meeting:March302014#project_leading_and_supervisions <- is that formulation ok with everyone ?
16:47 < Vallor> the right*
16:47 < Misogi> He can.
16:47 < Vallor> That's what I'm saying
16:47 < Lery> except for the "fo" and the "z" :P
16:48 <&DarkoNeko> meh, correcting
16:48 <&DarkoNeko> "Project Supervisor -> Project Manager (usually one of the translators or editors)"
16:48 <&DarkoNeko> "Project Administrator -> Supervisor (wiki supervisor or above)"
16:48 < rock96> No, don;t
16:48 < krytyk> well as long as its the highest authority when it comes to shape of the project
16:48 < krytyk> it can be either tl or editor
16:48 < rock96> We're a lazy bunch, alright
16:48 <+Lord-Simon> @DarkoNeko, yes.
16:48 <&DarkoNeko> tio be hoenst, supervisors don't *want* to have to manage local projects
16:48 < Misogi> The Manager can also be an experienced member of BT, if the TL is inexperienced with BT.
16:48 <&DarkoNeko> we're just there to be consulted in case of questions or problems
16:48 < Lery> That's the point in having Project Manager ;)
16:48 < Misogi> (Which is what I do.)
16:49 <+Lord-Simon> ^^^
16:49 < Lery> Well, Misogi, you're a supervisor too.
16:49 < cloudii> Are we resolved here?
16:49 < Kira0802> is this matter settled?
16:49 < Misogi> Yes.
16:49 <+Lord-Simon> Darko ?
16:50 < Lery> Yes
16:50 <+Lord-Simon> DarkoNeko, you there. Are you alive ?
16:50  * DarkoNeko breathes
16:50 <&DarkoNeko> yes, yes I am
16:50 <+Lord-Simon> Ok
16:50 <+Lord-Simon> then to the next topic
16:50 <+Lord-Simon> or poin
16:50 <+Lord-Simon> t
16:51 < cloudii> We never voted on Project Manager inactivity
16:51 <&DarkoNeko> yes, that's the next point
16:51 < Lery> Didn't we ?
16:51 <&DarkoNeko> nope
16:51 <+Lord-Simon> So, as darko has written:
16:51 <+Lord-Simon> If a Project Supervisor/Manager appears to be inactive
16:51 <+Lord-Simon> A translator may put in a request with Adminsitration, to be instated as the new Project Supervisor
16:51 < rock96> let's just make it that if no one can reach the Manager then we start the clock?
16:52 <+Lord-Simon> Define the time span
16:52 < Misogi> 6 months here.
16:52 <&DarkoNeko> do wer define a minimu activity ? it feels better to be cvague here
16:52 < rock96> In this case 6 months, yeah
16:52 < Lery> Yeah, that's fine so. Let's say 3 months
16:52 <&DarkoNeko> you don't want to wait 3 months to do soemthing because that guy isn't here
16:52 < cloudii> Um, I favor no time span on this
16:52 < Kira0802> off topic guys, but my IP has been blocked
16:52 < Lery> An active project has to be responsive...
16:52 < cloudii> Say for example Hatamaou gets a no-name Project Manager
16:52 <&DarkoNeko> most translators/editors would be gone after such a time
16:52 <+Lord-Simon> I'd go with the suggestion that rock96 made
16:52 < cloudii> but they vanish after 2 weeks
16:52 < Lery> Again ? You spammer :P
16:52 < cloudii> what then?
16:52 <+Lord-Simon> "let's just make it that if no one can reach the Manager then we start the clock?"
16:52 < Misogi> Hmm... perhaps we should describe the situation.
16:53 < cloudii> We never described the protocol for becoming Project Manager
16:53 < hayashi> managers should be reachable
16:53 < Kira0802> I'll go with 6 months
16:53 < hayashi> at least in a week
16:53 < Misogi> For inactive projects, no problems (it's usually above 6 months).
16:53 < hayashi> no one's going to wait 6 months
16:53 <&DarkoNeko> cloudii, typically it's the translation project creator
16:53 -!- victorrama [~androirc@41D8297B.4615ADF7.130F235D.IP] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:53 < Misogi> For active projects, it can be less. 3 months.
16:53 < cloudii> �
16:53 < cloudii> exactly
16:53 -!- DefaultMelody [cgiirc@Rizon-34094955.rev.sfr.net] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
16:53 < cloudii> but that's why they tend to vanish
16:53 <&DarkoNeko> hm
16:53 < Kira0802> well
16:53 < cloudii> I think the Project Manager should be reachable within one week
16:54 < Vallor> if the project manager has disappeared since 6 months, any translator/editor of the project can become the new manager, with the consent of the supervisor
16:54 < cloudii> that's a very reasonable expectation
16:54 < rock96> Nah, for extrememly active projects we need to greatly reduce the time span...
16:54 <+Lord-Simon> Let's go with a week after the Manages is not reachable.
16:54 <&DarkoNeko> a fixed duration feels wrong here. We could add that if the project manager isn't available, anyone that is should be free to do his role in the interim
16:54 < Kira0802> a week for removal?
16:54 <+Lord-Simon> Week is a good time span. In general.
16:54 < Vallor> That was my point
16:54 < cloudii> Place the power in Administration for mo�aking case-by-case decisions
16:54 < Kira0802> hell, if I'M off to china for 3 months, what happens?
16:54 < cloudii> don't specify a week
16:54 < Cthaeh> opposed to week
16:54 <+Lord-Simon> A week for action
16:54 <&DarkoNeko> and only have a proper, official replacement after the duration of your choice (a month ? 3 months ?)
16:54 <&DarkoNeko> Kira0802, if you warned first it's different
16:54 < Lery> Let's say that two week of non declared hiatus is too much
16:54 <+Lord-Simon> After that, the supervisor has to take a look
16:55 -!- xiiao [~xiiao@FA5F5508.D2E8E806.F4A5449C.IP] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
16:55 < Kira0802> I'll go with 10 days
16:55 < Lery> If you go to china for 3 months, if you're polite, you would warn first :P
16:55 < Misogi> We'll add that to the admin contact page.
16:55 <+Lord-Simon> ^^taht
16:55 < Misogi> I'll go with one month.
16:55 -!- masoatwork [~androirc@41D8297B.4615ADF7.130F235D.IP] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
16:55 -!- masoatwork is now known as victorrama
16:55 <+Lord-Simon> Well, Misogi..
16:56 < Misogi> At least, in case of unexpected absences.
16:56 <+Lord-Simon> If I understand correctly
16:56 <&DarkoNeko> hmm, no matter the choice of duration, i propose to add "a project manager may designate someone as interim if he knows he'll be unavailble for a while"
16:56 <+Lord-Simon> it's all about the Translators and the Adminst
16:56 <+Lord-Simon> *managers
16:56 < Lery> As long as we distinguish the non-announced hiatus from the announced ones...
16:56 <+Lord-Simon> Ok, the situation:
16:57 <+Lord-Simon> There is a TL that is translating a novel
16:57 <+Lord-Simon> He requests an action or coordination from the manager
16:57 <+Lord-Simon> The manager does not respond
16:57 <+Lord-Simon> 1
16:57 <+Lord-Simon> day
16:57 <+Lord-Simon> 2 days
16:57 <+Lord-Simon> 3 days
16:57 <+Lord-Simon> and it goes on.
16:57 < Misogi> Ah, that ?
16:58 <+Lord-Simon> What is the limit, where you patience runs out.
16:58 < Misogi> Well, if it's the delay of contact, then 1-2 weeks will be good.
16:58 < cloudii> I'm in favor of 2 weeks
16:58 < Kira0802> 10 days
16:58 < cloudii> of unexcused absense
16:58 < hayashi> 1 week
16:58 < cloudii> "undeclared absense"
16:58 <&DarkoNeko> I propose to vote on one thing we probably all gagree with first
16:58 <&DarkoNeko> "If a project manager knows they'll be away for a while, they should designate a subtitute to take all decisions in their absence"
16:59 < cloudii> Sure
16:59 < hayashi> that I can agree with
16:59 <+Lord-Simon> yes
16:59 < rock96> no prob
16:59 <&DarkoNeko> one advance of saying that upfront is that everything else will necessary only apply to unannounced absences
16:59 < Vallor> of course
16:59 <&DarkoNeko> advantage*
16:59 < Lery> alright
16:59  * DarkoNeko add "the following only apply for unannounced absences"
17:00 < Misogi> Let's resume it.
17:00 <&DarkoNeko> ok
17:00 < hayashi> 1 week
17:00 < cloudii> Let's do nominations then votes?
17:00 <+Lord-Simon> ^
17:00 < Lery> Let's do it two weeks then.
17:00 < cloudii> kira nominated 10 days
17:00 < cloudii> any other nominations?
17:00  * DarkoNeko groans
17:01 < cloudii> 1). 1 week 2). 2 weeks 3). 10 days
17:01 < cloudii> vote
17:01 <&DarkoNeko> I don't like having precise times for that
17:01 < Lery> Anyway, after one week of waiting, I guess anybody would already have contacted the Supervisor...
17:01 <&DarkoNeko> it's... too bureaucratic
17:01 < cloudii> Are they contacting the supervisor to ask if they can fill the position?
17:01 < Lery> Let's say : as soon as it reaches an Admin's ear and that it has been more than 10 days, then...
17:01 <&DarkoNeko> "if a request to the project manager goes unanswered within a few days, then [contact the supervisor for opinion]/[do the thing]" ?
17:02 <+Lord-Simon> My suggestion is: 1) 1 week missing and the project staff complains, reconsider the management and talk to them. 2) 2 weeks of non-activity or response, the place will be changed with another person
17:02 <+Lord-Simon> ^^
17:02 <&DarkoNeko> hmm
17:02 <&DarkoNeko> so, after the first week, you designate a de facto substitute
17:02 <&DarkoNeko> and after [x] weeks, that person becomes the official project manager
17:02 <+Lord-Simon> Like that. To have at least a person who can do that
17:02 < Lery> Hell, that's a detail, don't we have tons of other matters to discuss ???
17:02 <+Lord-Simon> or answers in time
17:02 < cloudii> imo… that feels even more bureaucratic…. but whatever
17:03 <&DarkoNeko> well, that imply that proijects have more than one person XD
17:03 < Lery> That's fine so
17:03 < Lery> Let's go with it
17:03 < Misogi> Just tell that it's a case-by-case request.
17:03 < Lery> Vote
17:03 <&DarkoNeko> with it, which one lol
17:03 < Kira0802> let's leave it tp "1 week to 2 weeks"?
17:03 -!- arczyx [qwebirc@866D8F3D.10338973.76D323C4.IP] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
17:03 < Kira0802> leave it to*
17:03 <&DarkoNeko> "after a while" ?
17:03 < Kira0802> we can redefine that
17:03 <+Lord-Simon> "1) 1 week missing and the project staff complains, reconsider the management and talk to them. 2) 2 weeks of non-activity or response, the place will be changed with another person"
17:03 <&DarkoNeko> hmm
17:03 <+Lord-Simon> "so, after the first week, you designate a de facto substitute"
17:03 <+Lord-Simon> "and after [x] weeks, that person becomes the official project manager"
17:04 < Kira0802> I can agree with that
17:04 < cloudii> 1 week missing de facto, 1 month official
17:04 <+Lord-Simon> also
17:04 <+Lord-Simon> " 17:02:05 Lord-Simon"
17:04 <+Lord-Simon> fauck
17:04 <+Lord-Simon> "  "if a request to the project manager goes unanswered within a few days, then [contact the supervisor for opinion]/[do the thing]" ?"
17:04 < cloudii> Actually, I favor Simon's more xD
17:04 < Kira0802> consult others first, then do it
17:05 < Kira0802> if there's disagreement, go to supervisor
17:05 < cloudii> if a request to the project manager goes unanswered within a few days, then [contact the supervisor for opinion] and ask to become the de-facto project manager?
17:05 < cloudii> That's what it translates to for me
17:05 <&DarkoNeko> uh, let's do a mix, then
17:05 <&DarkoNeko> "1) if a project manager is missing (minimum a week, and decision to take) and the project staff complains, reconsider the management and talk to them. A subtitute manager is designated amongst the active member of the translation project"
17:05 <&DarkoNeko> "2) after [2 ?] weeks of non-activity or response, the subtitute officially become the new manager"
17:06 <&DarkoNeko> and ther are decisions to take*
17:06 <+Lord-Simon> VOTE
17:06 < Kira0802> Yea
17:06 <+Lord-Simon> yes
17:06 < Cthaeh> opposed
17:06 < cloudii> For point 2, can we specify duration?
17:06 < rock96> Just add case by case, and I'm fine with this.
17:06 < cloudii> I strongly just favor a case-by-case basis approach
17:06 <&DarkoNeko> rock96, anything we decide here isn't a rock hard rule, tho, we need flexibility
17:07 < Kira0802> ehe
17:07 < Lery> yeah
17:07 <&DarkoNeko> Cthaeh, why ?
17:07 < rock96> Which is why I propose this~
17:07 < Cthaeh> The danger I'm seeing here is that the translator forgets to say s/he will be gone for x-weeks, an editor (or translator with vastly different opinions) comes by and wants to make large changes, and then those large changes are made and the translator comes back after x weeks and is annoyed that something they considered important was completely changed
17:07 < Kira0802> rock 96, rock hard hehe
17:07 < Cthaeh> One example might be something like past/present tense
17:07 <&DarkoNeko> ..hmmm
17:07 < cloudii> I agree with Cthaeh
17:07 < Misogi> Same here.
17:07 < cloudii> which is why a case-by-case approach is much more flexible
17:07 < rock96> I wanna change the name *slams head into the wall*
17:07 < krytyk> so the editors who consult changes with translator exist?
17:07 < krytyk> i though thats just a myth
17:07 <&DarkoNeko> rhoo
17:07 < krytyk> thought*
17:08  * DarkoNeko pat pats krytyk 
17:08 < Lery> @Cthaeh Special cases like BegginerXP and so one should always be treated as special anyway...
17:08 < cloudii> leaves it up to Administration to decide whether the replacement should occur
17:08 < Misogi> It exists.
17:08 < cloudii> It's a valid concern
17:08 <+Lord-Simon> My thought here was as a Manager and not a TL being a manager. Just the position of a Mangaer
17:08 < Kira0802> OK, so consultation first?
17:08 <&DarkoNeko> well, that's another case, then : "if the project manager has signifiant opposition with the other members of their project, what happens" ?
17:08 < cloudii> The Project Manager has the right to define all translation details for the project
17:08 <+Lord-Simon> That's a a given
17:08 < krytyk> manager being the authority on the project shape
17:09 < krytyk> stylistic wise
17:09 < cloudii> I would personally like to pile all of these issues onto the Supervisor to resolve XD
17:09 < cloudii> and handle it on a case-by-case basis
17:09 < Kira0802> fine
17:09 < krytyk> theres hardly anything else there, right
17:09 < cloudii> Supervisor can seek consultation from other supervisors
17:09 <+Lord-Simon> agree
17:09  * DarkoNeko groans at the potential issues
17:09 < cloudii> The caveat here is that Supervisors need to be named for all projects
17:10 < cloudii> *must
17:10 < cloudii> can no longer leave them blank
17:10 <+Lord-Simon> to the "and handle it on a case-by-case basis" and "Supervisor can seek consultation from other supervisors"
17:10 < cloudii> the supervisor doesn't have to be invested in the project. They're available for conflict resolution
17:10 <&DarkoNeko> all blanks are de facto affected to any and all supervisors
17:10 < krytyk> EVIL PLAN 1: name darko supervisor for all projects
17:10 <&DarkoNeko> i hate you
17:10 < krytyk> EVIL PLAN 1.1: Laugh
17:10 < Kira0802> if a project manager can't be trusted, s/he can't be a manager
17:11 < rock96> The outcome of EVIL PLAN: ban from wiki.
17:11 <&DarkoNeko> ok, let's add that, then
17:11 < cloudii> There are situations when we just have to be like nanodesuyo. If the manager is unsatisfactory (or generates a lot of resistence), the supervisor needs to stand up and say, sorry, but you can't be manager.
17:11 <&DarkoNeko> "the subtitute must be a trusted person from the project"
17:11 <&DarkoNeko> or something like that ?
17:11 <&DarkoNeko> as in, they chosoe it amongst themselves
17:11 < cloudii> Just let the supervisor decide......
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17:12 < krytyk> The substitute must be a person already involved in project, and a reliable authority concerning it.
17:12 <&DarkoNeko> and the supervisor only nod, or refuse if there's a blablant problem
17:12 < Misogi> "In cases of inactivity or management problems, a supervisor can be asked to name another Project Manager"
17:12 <&DarkoNeko> the supervisor doesn't know each and every problem on the project
17:12 < Cthaeh> agree that supervisor should consult someone who is/has been active on the project in the case that a project manager change request is made
17:12 < krytyk> o/ kuro-chan
17:12 < cloudii> Misogi +1
17:12 <&DarkoNeko> we're outsider, if there's an annoying person we'll probably don't know until it's too late
17:12 < Vallor> Misogi: +1
17:12 < cloudii> the supervisor should consult with the entire project team though
17:12 < Lery> Let's say : the subsitute should be DarkoNeko, who will decide after studying the case who could take the lead if the real Manager were to really go MIA
17:12 < Misogi> Of course.
17:12 < Kira0802> Misogi: +1
17:12 < cloudii> but we can expect the supervisor to give an unbiased opinion
17:12 < Cthaeh> cloud put it better
17:13 <&DarkoNeko> ...tho, in my opinion, the manager should be someone people of his project trusts
17:13 <&DarkoNeko> you can't do a collaborative project with people you hate, it just doesn't work
17:13 < Kira0802> yeah, he can be sacked, i'm ok with that
17:13 <+Lord-Simon> ^
17:13 < cloudii> personal conflicts are included with "management problems"
17:13 < Misogi> "In cases of inactivity or management problems, the project staff can ask the Supervisor to statute on that case"
17:14 < Vallor> cloudii:  +1
17:14 < hayashi> cool
17:14 <&DarkoNeko> Misogi, that's kind of a given already
17:14 < cloudii> I personally like how misogi worded the last one better xD
17:14 < cloudii> it's clearer
17:14 < Misogi> I tried to reformulate the rule.
17:14 < Kira0802> Someone make a statement?
17:15 -!- rock96 is now known as Lock
17:15 < Vallor> I agree with the misogi's last rule
17:15 < cloudii> No, I'd like the supervisor to have the power to legitimately select the Project Manager, after conslutation with the entire project team
17:15 < krytyk> "In cases of inactivity or management problems, the project staff can ask Supervisor to appoitn a new manager from among the current project staff."
17:15 < krytyk> appoint*
17:15 <&DarkoNeko> cloudii, that's basically the equivalent of the team choosing themselves
17:15 < cloudii> I just think it's a power of the supervisor that should be clarified
17:15 < Misogi> "to statute on the Project Manager's nomination" ?
17:16 <&DarkoNeko> and the supervisor just saying "sure, why the hell not"
17:16 < cloudii> that's find too
17:16 -!- joay_b [qwebirc@3261450C.6FD5BD6E.9EE74771.IP] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
17:16 < cloudii> but I think it's a necessary moderating power
17:16 < krytyk> I believe supervisors know more or less background on projects
17:16 < krytyk> or can ask around on irc for example
17:16 < Misogi> "In case of inactivity or management problems, the project staff can ask the Supervisor to statute on the Project Manager's nomination."
17:16 < cloudii> krytyk +1
17:16 < Kira0802> Supervisor=Absolute unbiased authorioty under the great admins
17:16 < Kira0802> authority*
17:16 < cloudii> or misogi +1
17:16 < krytyk> so its not like they are completely clueless
17:16 < cloudii> XD
17:16 <&DarkoNeko> Kira0802, uniformed decisions can be misguided, and that's one supervisor saying :)
17:17 < krytyk> well, democracy sucks
17:17 < krytyk> thats why
17:17 < cloudii> You just have to be responsible and talk to the project team
17:17 <&DarkoNeko> dictature is fun as long as it's me
17:17 < cloudii> and try and make a decision based on past contributions
17:17 < cloudii> you can see the contributions log
17:17 < krytyk> 0,
17:17 < Misogi> Well then, may we decide what we'll vote?
17:17 < Kira0802> ^
17:17 < cloudii> Misogi: "In case of inactivity or management problems, the project staff can ask the Supervisor to statute on the Project Manager's nomination."
17:18 < Lery> Vote
17:18 < Lery> Yes
17:18 < cloudii> yes
17:18 < Kira0802> Yea
17:18 < Lock> yup
17:18 < Misogi> Yes, I guess.
17:18 < krytyk> ...make it more clear. No for the time being.
17:18 <&DarkoNeko> "A subtitute manager may be chosen by the remaining active member and approved by the supervisor" ?
17:18 < krytyk> "statute for nomination" is unclear.
17:18 < krytyk> that part.
17:18 < Misogi> I'll correct that.
17:18 -!- Jerl [Jerl@RIP.AND.TEAR] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
17:18 -!- mode/#baka-tsuki [+ao Jerl Jerl] by [^_^]
17:18 < Gero-chan> Get out, p-pervert.
17:19 < cloudii> Disagree with DarkoNeko's
17:19 <&DarkoNeko> eeh
17:19 < cloudii> I still think supervisor should have total selection power
17:19 < Lery> Let's say that Darkoneko has to find a nice sentence to give the appropriate idea in the minutes...
17:19 < Misogi> "In case of inactivity or management problems, the project staff can ask the Supervisor to statute on a temporary or permanent Project Manager nomination."
17:20 < hayashi> sounds fair
17:20 < hayashi> but you'll need active supers
17:20 < cloudii> "In the case of inactivity or management problems, the project staff can ask the Supervisor to nominate the Project Manager"
17:20 < Lery> Yeah, that's vague but vague is fine
17:20 <&DarkoNeko>  "In case of inactivity or management problems, the project staff may ask the Supervisor to mediate and/or choose a new Project Manager amongst the active project members" ?
17:20 < krytyk> yay, cloudi made it clear.
17:20 < krytyk> something liek that darko
17:20 < Lery> "In case of inactivity or management problems, the project staff may ask the Supervisor to mediate and/or choose a new Project Manager amongst the active project members, but a cat is fine, too" ?
17:20 < krytyk> can someone make it longer?!
17:20 < Lock> Yes!
17:21 -!- nanodesuyo [nanodesuyo@slice.of.life] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
17:21 <&DarkoNeko> I can ALWAYS make it longer
17:21 < krytyk> thats bragging
17:21  * Lord-Simon blushes
17:21 < Lery> He's French ;)
17:21 < Kira0802> Ehehe
17:21  * Lock groans
17:21 <+Lord-Simon> So
17:21 < Misogi> "In case of inactivity or management issues, the project staff may ask the Supervisor to statute on a transitory or permanent Project Manager nomination."
17:21 <+Lord-Simon> Vote for: "In case of inactivity or management problems, the project staff may ask the Supervisor to mediate and/or choose a new Project Manager amongst the active project members"
17:21 < cloudii> Yes
17:21 <&DarkoNeko> Misogi, I don't really understand "nomination"
17:21 < krytyk> change to appoint
17:21 <&DarkoNeko> yes
17:21 < krytyk> simple
17:21 < krytyk> done
17:21 < Lock> yeah
17:21 < Kira0802> final form?
17:21 < Cthaeh> yes
17:21 < krytyk> saishu keitai
17:21 < Lery> @DarkoNeko : the same as in FR
17:22 < Kira0802> Yea
17:22 < Lery> yes
17:22 < cloudii> Can we restate the final form?
17:22 <&DarkoNeko> "In case of inactivity or management problems, the project staff may ask the Supervisor to mediate and/or appoint a new Project Manager amongst the active project members"
17:22 < Lery> it's just lacking a genitive
17:22 < cloudii> Vote just to clarify
17:22 < cloudii> yes
17:22 < Kira0802> Yea
17:22 < krytyk> yes
17:22 <+Lord-Simon> yes
17:22 < Lery> y
17:22 < Lock> yes...
17:22 < Cthaeh> y
17:22 < Misogi> Yes (you can replace problems with issues)
17:23 < cloudii> resolved?
17:23 <&DarkoNeko> looks like it
17:23 < Kira0802> Next! :D
17:23 < cloudii> I have one for thing
17:23 < cloudii> appointment of project managers
17:23 < cloudii> self nominations or contact supervisor?
17:23 < Lery> sudo apt-get install next_topic
17:23 < cloudii> (assuming position is blank)
17:23 < hayashi> contact
17:23 < Lock> staff appoints the manager.
17:23 <&DarkoNeko> I'm all for having it stay the project creator by defaulty
17:24 < Misogi> Just tell it on the administration contact page.
17:24 < cloudii> Misogi +1
17:24 < hayashi> at least courtesy informing
17:24 < krytyk> project creator is often the person who made the teaser and left it as is
17:24 < krytyk> thus no.
17:24 < KuroiHikari|m> Head TL or someone the head TL agrees with
17:24 < Kira0802> Staff appoints, Supervisor agrees
17:24 < cloudii> agree with krytyk
17:24 <&DarkoNeko> then a new person appoint self, as on the thing we just voted on
17:25 < Lery> @Misogi : actually "problem management" is the real thing :P
17:25 < cloudii> Yes, all notifications about new project managers should be made on the Administration Contact Page
17:25 < krytyk> problems will define themselves
17:25 <&DarkoNeko> along with a notice on the translation project's talk page
17:25 < krytyk> when they come to supervisor to discuss them
17:25 < krytyk> dont overcomplicate
17:25 < krytyk> over trivialities
17:25 < Misogi> Lery: Ah, nevermind my comment then.
17:26 < Lery> Well, it's a well used word in IT support and so on. It's part of the ITIL stuff and all.
17:26 < cloudii> okay, anyways, staff should at least make contact
17:26 < cloudii> can we agree with that
17:26 < cloudii> and be vague about the form of contact?
17:26 < Lery> @cloudii : yeah
17:26 < Misogi> Yeah.
17:26 < cloudii> vote
17:26 <&DarkoNeko> agreed, the less bureaucracy the better
17:26 < Kira0802> Yea
17:26 < Lery> Please rephrase it for vote
17:27 < Misogi> "Any nomination of a Project Manager must be brought to the supervisors."
17:27 < Misogi> The "brought" can be improved.
17:27 < Lery> "by any means necessary" ? ><
17:27 <&DarkoNeko> lol
17:27 < cloudii> unnecessary lery........
17:27 < Misogi> "Any" means that.
17:27  * Lock giggles
17:28 < Kira0802> teehee
17:28 < Lery> Sartre FTW
17:28 <&DarkoNeko> I think "In case of unannounced inactivity or management issues, the project staff may ask the Supervisor to mediate and/or appoint a new Project Manager amongst the active project members"  already says that
17:28 <&DarkoNeko> they have to contact the supervisor in all cases
17:28 < Misogi> It's one case.
17:28 <&DarkoNeko> we could have a page logging all translation rpoject managemenet change, as an aside
17:28 < Misogi> There's also the first one, which is different.
17:28 < Misogi> first nomination*
17:29 <&DarkoNeko> that's always the project or teaser creator
17:29 < Lery> @Misogi : okay, never mind, I thougt we talked about "problem management" but here, you're meaning "problem with the management", right ?
17:29 < cloudii> …what exactly are we talking about right now?
17:30 < Kira0802> Dunno
17:30 < Misogi> I'm a bit lost.
17:30 < Kira0802> I have no idea
17:30 < Kira0802> OK
17:30 <&DarkoNeko> coffee, brb
17:30 < Misogi> Let's go back to the topic.
17:30 < Kira0802> let's just retrace how it goes
17:30 -!- Slayze [~slayze@is.a.moron] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
17:30 < Kira0802> 1. Supervisor away
17:30 < Kira0802> 2. Project nominates a new guy
17:31 < Kira0802> 3. New guy approved by the supervisor
17:31 < cloudii> *Manager you mean
17:31 < cloudii> *Manager away
17:31 < Kira0802> Manager away, OK
17:31 < Kira0802> my bad
17:31 < Misogi> "Supervisors must be informed of any Project Manager appointment."
17:31 < Kira0802> well yeah
17:31 < Kira0802> 3 covers that
17:32 < Kira0802> ...
17:32 < Misogi> Anything else to do?
17:32 < krytyk> makes sense, and first project manager is appointed by supervisor during ATP procedure.
17:32 < Kira0802> Nothing much left
17:33 < cloudii> krytyk +1
17:33 <+Lord-Simon> Well
17:33 <+Lord-Simon> there are the user groups
17:33 <+Lord-Simon> and the removal of people
17:33 < Misogi> Sure.
17:33 <+Lord-Simon> an the creation of new groups
17:33 < krytyk> you mean forums.
17:33 <+Lord-Simon> but for that wee need TLG
17:34 <+Lord-Simon> and he isn't here.
17:34 < Misogi> Let's speak of the Wiki.
17:34 < cloudii> Can we resolve this one point first?
17:34 < cloudii> about the first project manageR?
17:34 < Misogi> ?
17:34 < Kira0802> ?
17:34 < cloudii> how does the first project manager come into being?
17:34 <+Lord-Simon> ?
17:34 < Misogi> Approved along with the ATP.
17:34 < cloudii> do we agree?
17:34 <&DarkoNeko> I say it's the creator
17:34 < cloudii> I disagree with DarkoNeko from practical experience
17:35 <&DarkoNeko> give more details ?
17:35 < Misogi> Well, I do nominate myself as Supervisor and Manager, if the TL is inexperienced.
17:35 < Kira0802> The one who starts
17:35 < krytyk> creator can be the person who made teaser, and only teaser
17:35 < cloudii> ^^
17:35 < Kira0802> Unless he wishes to give it to someone
17:35 < Misogi> Then, I give the Manager post once enough experience is acquired.
17:35 < Misogi> (I can't manage more than 20 projects at once.)
17:36 < krytyk> manager is the person who takes upon himself to continue project, and by putting ATP tag dedicates himself to continue it as a full project
17:36 <+Lord-Simon> ^sounds good
17:36 <+Lord-Simon> actually
17:36 < cloudii> krytyk +1
17:36 < cloudii> krytyk: "first project manager is appointed by supervisor during ATP procedure."
17:36 < hayashi> fair enough
17:37 < Kira0802> i agree
17:37 < cloudii> I vote yes
17:37 < Kira0802> Yea
17:37 < Misogi> I'm on it.
17:37 <+Lord-Simon> Ok
17:37 <+Lord-Simon> then
17:37 <+Lord-Simon> VOTE for: "first project manager is appointed by supervisor during ATP procedure."
17:37 < hayashi> yes
17:37 < cloudii> yes
17:37 < Misogi> Yes.
17:38 < Lock> yes
17:38 <+Lord-Simon> yes
17:38 -!- Xahn [cgiirc@A56845EE.4F44014D.76D323C4.IP] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
17:38 <&DarkoNeko> uuh
17:38 < Kira0802> sup xahn
17:38 < Kira0802> yes
17:38 < Kira0802> what?
17:38 <&DarkoNeko> in all pratically, it's whoever want to continue, the supervisor just nod vaguely. you don't mention the choice comes from the person to begin with ,that may turn off peopel
17:38 < Xahn> yo Kira0802 
17:39 < cloudii> "first project manager is approved by the supervisor during ATP procedure."
17:40 < Misogi> It's closer to reality.
17:40 < hayashi> tbh
17:40 < krytyk> usually its only one person at that point
17:40 < cloudii> meh, I'm personally fine with Simon's statement
17:40 < krytyk> since the project has hardly any content.
17:40 < hayashi> this is one area where being grey is fine
17:40 < Kira0802> anyone wants to modify its vote because of the change?
17:40 < hayashi> because managers come and go too fast
17:40 < cloudii> no not really xD I like Simon's better
17:41 < hayashi> if we're too bureaucratic over this issue
17:41 < Kira0802> so...next?
17:41 < cloudii> Can we move to forums?
17:41 < hayashi> it will be counter intinuitive 
17:41 < hayashi> yes
17:41 < hayashi> forums
17:41 < cloudii> Okay
17:41 < cloudii> I have one thing
17:41 < Misogi> We can't do much, though.
17:41 < cloudii> for discussion
17:41 <&DarkoNeko> I agree with hayashi  there, it's kind of trying to put everything written and... fixating it too much
17:41 < cloudii> Can we discuss which usergroup can have ban/unban privileges?
17:41 < hayashi> SB
17:42 < Kira0802> We can discuss that
17:42 < Misogi> GMs.
17:42 < Kira0802> err
17:42 <+Lord-Simon> Doesn'Twork
17:42 <+Lord-Simon> need TLG
17:42 < Misogi> Of course.
17:42 <&DarkoNeko> for starter, what groups have that currently ?
17:42 < cloudii> we don't need to get it done, but we can give him our opinion and recommendation
17:42 < Misogi> ^
17:42 < Kira0802> It's not like we're modifying it asap, we can just discuss
17:42 < cloudii> no usergroup has ban/unban except Admins
17:42 < Lery> Well Oni should be able to do it too
17:43 < cloudii> and specific named individuals apaprently....
17:43 < krytyk> for forums you mean
17:43 < cloudii> for forums yes
17:43 < Lock> Head translators maybe?
17:43 < hayashi> no
17:43 < Kira0802> let's clarify 1st
17:43 < hayashi> we don't need that power tbh
17:43 < krytyk> please make sure to state clearly whether you mean forums or wiki whenever mentinoning usergroups and rights, thanks.
17:43 < Kira0802> forums/wiki?
17:43 < cloudii> Forums.
17:43 < hayashi> I'm assuming forums
17:43 <&DarkoNeko> maybe we need a patrol group for countering vandalism
17:43 < Kira0802> ok, forums.
17:43 < hayashi> head tls mod threads and stuff
17:43 < cloudii> We do have a patrol group for vandalism
17:43 < hayashi> ban/unban should be with admin level mods
17:44 < hayashi> the SB
17:44 < Kira0802> Give ban rights to FSB
17:44 < Misogi> Global Moderators, Admins and some nominated people got the ban powers.
17:44 < cloudii> @Misogi, that's the current state?
17:44 < Misogi> The FSB used to have them, but it was removed.
17:44 < Misogi> It seems so. But it's unclear.
17:44 <&DarkoNeko> there's no "global mod"... you're talking about the forums ?
17:44  * DarkoNeko is out
17:44 < Kira0802> yes
17:44 <&DarkoNeko> I'll go bike outside or something
17:45 < Kira0802> no
17:45 < Kira0802> u stay here
17:45 < Kira0802> ;_;
17:45 <&DarkoNeko> but it's warm outside ;è;
17:45 <&DarkoNeko> you just have to add the votes on http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Talk:Meeting:March302014
17:45 < Kira0802> it's snowing here
17:45 <+Lord-Simon> it should be almost 9 am where TLG is
17:45 < hayashi> maybe he forgot
17:45 <&DarkoNeko> it's sunday, i woke up like at midday
17:45 <+Lord-Simon> I've written a mail
17:45 < Kira0802> prob overslept
17:46 < cloudii> Probably sleeping in....
17:46 <+Lord-Simon> to him
17:46 < cloudii> are we continuing with the ban/unban issue?
17:46 < Kira0802> maybe wrong server lol
17:46 -!- wet [~young98@18B49CE.58FE0283.F0143159.IP] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:46 <+Lord-Simon> nah
17:46 < cloudii> cool
17:47 < cloudii> I'm going to get going, unless DarkoNeko wants to talk about sidebar
17:47 < cloudii> and main page
17:47 -!- wet [~young98@18B49CE.58FE0283.F0143159.IP] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
17:47 < Misogi> I'll add the ATP and 1st Manager thing.
17:47 < Kira0802> i'm out fow awhile
17:47 < Kira0802> bbl
17:47 <+Lord-Simon> so, this is it. For now
17:47 < cloudii> DarkoNeko: You might be interested in this main page proposal
17:47 < cloudii> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=User:Pumkingboyz/Sandbox:Main_page_proposal
17:47 < Misogi> In "Project leading and supervision"
17:47 <&DarkoNeko> cloudii, the only point of choice is wether to use the old method or your discovery, a'd be for the later
17:48 < cloudii> I don't really care xD
17:48 -!- AthenaSoCute [~nobody@Rizon-1BDB642E.acanac.net] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
17:48 < krytyk> what
17:48 < krytyk> whos that
17:48 < AthenaSoCute> kira
17:48 < hayashi> botanophile 2
17:49 < cloudii> but, I'm kind of tired of deliberations at this point…. was running interviews for 5 hours yesterday so…. cloud is wiped out xD
17:49 < cloudii> had to pick an E-board for next year at school
17:49 < cloudii> but anyways, cloud is off. see y'all
17:49 < AthenaSoCute> ...
17:49 < AthenaSoCute> if cloud is off
17:49 < AthenaSoCute> should we ebd this for now?
17:49 < AthenaSoCute> rnd*
17:50 <&DarkoNeko> alright, so we're calling the meeting off ?
17:50 < Lery> See you Cloudii, may you have a sunny day ;)
17:50 < AthenaSoCute> end*
17:50 <&DarkoNeko> I'm out biking \o/
17:50 < AthenaSoCute> we can meet next week or something
17:50 < Lery> yeah I'm tired of this too
17:50 < Lery> Sure
17:50 <&DarkoNeko> thanks, everyone
17:50 < cloudii> thanks 'errybody
17:50 <+Lord-Simon> So, looks like the meeting is off for today
</nowiki>
</pre>
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{| class="wikitable collapsible collapsed"
! Complete Log of the Evening Session (with TLG)
|-
|
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<nowiki>
[...]
[15:13] == thelastguardian [~thelastgu@Rizon-8D1D836C.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
[15:13] <cloudii> thelastguardian :D
[15:14] <thelastguardian> $#@$%@#$#@
[15:14] <thelastguardian> i set my calendar to 1pm PST
[15:15] <cloudii> aww it's okay xD
[15:15] <thelastguardian> oh my gosh
[15:15] <cloudii> it was a god early time for you anyways, so it's alright
[15:15] <thelastguardian> *facepalming*
[15:15] <Misogi> Hi TLG.
[15:16] <cloudii> A full transcript for the entire meeting is on the talk page for tha Wiki page
[15:16] <Misogi> But we haven't discussed the important matters.
[15:16] == DefaultMelody [cgiirc@Rizon-A8FAA387.rev.sfr.net] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
[15:18] <cloudii> Misogi, I started taking a more detailed/formal minutes off of the full transcript
[15:18] <cloudii> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Meeting:March302014
[15:18] <cloudii> Feel free to edit you think is not representative......
[15:19] <Misogi> Well, I'll trust you on this.
[15:20] == Lery [cgiirc@Rizon-ED78B9E8.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
[15:20] <Lery> Hello there ^^
[15:20] == Vallor [cgiirc@Rizon-3DEA5FBB.w86-193.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
[15:20] <Misogi> Should we start an improvised discussion?
[15:21] <cloudii> Uh, do you know if Simon is still recording?
[15:21] <Misogi> Or just deal with the most important matters?
[15:21] <+Lord-Simon> holy
[15:21] <+Lord-Simon> Well
[15:21] <+Lord-Simon> hello there
[15:21] <+Lord-Simon> 7 hours too late
[15:21] <Vallor> It's nothing. lol
[15:23] <cloudii> fyi, I started putting together formal minutes from the transcript here: http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Meeting:March302014
[15:23] <cloudii> Feel free to edit as you please :D
[15:23] <thelastguardian> as a token of my apology, I will immediately set to work on the captcha...
[15:23] == onix [cgiirc@Rizon-D0AEC4AC.w83-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
[15:23] <thelastguardian> (after I finished screaming)
[15:23] <+Lord-Simon> :D
[15:24] <Misogi> I see.
[15:24] <DefaultMelody> Yo.
[15:24] == onix has changed nick to Guest49545
[15:24] <Misogi> I'll try to take a bath in less than 5 minutes.
[15:24] <Vallor> Good luck
[15:24] * Misogi is off.
[15:24] <+Lord-Simon> So, are we going through the topics that can only be discussed with TLG ?
[15:25] <Guest49545> Hmm... Hello ? (My first time on an IRC)
[15:25] <+Lord-Simon> ....
[15:25] <Guest49545> Arg... it's Devenk
[15:25] <Vallor> He...llo
[15:26] <DefaultMelody> ...Devenk, put your real name.
[15:26] <Lery> He means : your real nickname :P
[15:26] <Guest49545> It's my first time, I don't jnow how to do it...
[15:26] <+Lord-Simon> 48 65 6c 6c 6f
[15:26] <Vallor> +1 Lery
[15:26] == Guest49545 [cgiirc@Rizon-D0AEC4AC.w83-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit []
[15:27] == mib_r8b9t5 [cgiirc@Rizon-5739504B.w83-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
[15:27] <+Lord-Simon> you guys...
[15:27] <Lery> 4e 6f 2c 20 70 6c 65 61 73 65 2e 2e 2e
[15:27] <+Lord-Simon> 2a 73 69 67 68 2a
[15:27] <Vallor> Can you stop with the hexa code please?
[15:28] == Warlock_Gaignun [~StrikerFX@Rizon-39890F7D.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
[15:28] <DefaultMelody> Shhh, Vallor, I'm trying to understand.
[15:28] <+Lord-Simon> I
[15:28] <+Lord-Simon> SEE
[15:28] <+Lord-Simon> CAPTCHA
[15:29] <+Lord-Simon> BUT WHY CATS
[15:29] <+Lord-Simon> WHYYYY!?
[15:29] <DefaultMelody> CATS RULE INTERNET.
[15:29] == mib_r8b9t5 has changed nick to Devenk83
[15:29] <+Lord-Simon> NO
[15:29] <+Lord-Simon> SHEEPS DO
[15:30] <Vallor> And french people are weird...? *sigh*
[15:30] <Lery> Aren't cats fine too ??
[15:30] <Cthaeh> haha
[15:30] <+Lord-Simon> because cats are too mainstream: http://labs.minutelabs.io/Sheep-Bounce/
[15:30] <DefaultMelody> Hipster.
[15:30] == Lery2 [~lery@Rizon-ED78B9E8.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
[15:30] <+Lord-Simon> lol
[15:30] <thelastguardian> according to mediawiki it's currently the most effective form of captcha...it makes the server a lot busier though
[15:31] <cloudii> hmm, TLG, what are you using now?
[15:31] <Lery> Mhhh, how much is your server currently stressed, by the way ?
[15:31] <cloudii> I want to remind everyone of the data I collected last week
[15:31] <cloudii> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Meeting:March302014
[15:31] <thelastguardian> top - 14:33:40 up 80 days, 20:47,  3 users,  load average: 7.53, 11.47, 8.86
[15:31] <cloudii> total amount of spam on the Wiki and Forums
[15:31] <thelastguardian> used to be about 2.5
[15:32] <cloudii> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AheiUhJFmWFIdHp6RkZTTzNvTFJnbllSeTNHdVZSS0E&usp=sharing#gid=0
[15:32] == DarkoNeko [~udontcare@and.neither.do.I] has left #Baka-Tsuki [Time waits for no one.]
[15:33] <thelastguardian> using what?
[15:33] * Misogi is back.
[15:33] <cloudii> Forum spam is all topics that have been "denied" by a mod
[15:33] <Lery> @thelastguardian : how many cores ?
[15:34] <thelastguardian> 8
[15:34] <thelastguardian> 16 HT
[15:34] <Lery> Hell, that's way too much
[15:34] <Lery> Okay
[15:34] <+Lord-Simon> php-fpm + nginx
[15:34] <+Lord-Simon> right ?
[15:34] <thelastguardian> mediawiki is not every efficient (if you don't have static cache infront of it)
[15:34] <Lery> Well, it means it's running at about 50%
[15:34] <thelastguardian> cloudii: got it
 [15:35] <thelastguardian> you can't expect HT to bring 200% performance increase
[15:35] == Warlock_Gaignun [~StrikerFX@The.Time.of.Darkness] has quit []
[15:35] <thelastguardian> so the captcha pushes the sys util to 100%
[15:35] <Misogi> The discussion started?
[15:35] <Lery> It's true
[15:36] <+Lord-Simon> So, what do we start with ?
[15:36] <zzhk> apart from spam, I think the most pressing wiki issue requiring TLG's intervention is the disappearance of the supervisor/admin option when supervisors try to change page protection levels
[15:36] <cloudii> imo, it's not worth it if it stresses the server that much
[15:36] <+Lord-Simon> Global, Wiki or Forums ?
[15:36] <Misogi> Wiki.
[15:36] <cloudii> I support zzhk
[15:36] <Misogi> Not much to discuss about wiki.
[15:36] <+Lord-Simon> except the redo of the front page
[15:36] <+Lord-Simon> maybe
[15:37] <thelastguardian> i didn't touch the wiki/forum's permission settings, so the disapperance is probably cause by version upgrades
[15:37] <Vallor> And the links to the copyright page.
[15:37] <cloudii> Do you think you could go and change the usergroup privileges?
[15:37] <cloudii> to correct it back to what it used to be?
[15:38] <Misogi> One thing at once.
[15:38] == Warlock_Gaignun [~StrikerFX@Rizon-39890F7D.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
[15:38] == Arisu-tan [~anon@Rizon-B515F35B.csp-wy.client.bresnan.net] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
[15:38] == mode/#Baka-Tsuki [+o Arisu-tan] by [^_^]
[15:40] <thelastguardian> sure, let me do the captcha first though
[15:40] <Nurin> oh
[15:40] <Nurin> the man actually came
[15:40] <Nurin> (and Rikka was crying his name)
[15:40] <Nurin> :p
[15:41] == crows [~anon@Rizon-B515F35B.csp-wy.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[15:41] == DefaultMelody [cgiirc@Rizon-A8FAA387.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
[15:42] <stellarroze> :(
[15:43] * Lord-Simon hugs stella
[15:43] <stellarroze> just got back from church and saw the tweet
[15:43] <@Arisu-tan> Hm?
[15:43] <stellarroze> i missed tlg...
[15:44] <+Lord-Simon> Were your prayers granted ?
[15:44] <stellarroze> was anything sorted out?
[15:44] <@Arisu-tan> who knows?
[15:44] <Misogi> It just started.
[15:44] <stellarroze> who knows my lord...
[15:44] <stellarroze> eh
[15:44] * stellarroze hugs cloudii
[15:45] <stellarroze> hi arisu-tan ^^
[15:45] <Nurin> Wat?
[15:45] <Nurin> Stellar in the church?
[15:45] <@Arisu-tan> So it seems to me that Harvest Moon games give you all the excitement of wooing a girl and then the wedding, only to deny you the honeymoon after
[15:45] <stellarroze> nurin
[15:45] <Nurin> lol
[15:45] <Nurin> true enough
[15:45] <@Arisu-tan> I find this disappointing.
[15:45] <+Lord-Simon> lol
[15:46] <@Arisu-tan> On the other hand, maybe I've just played too many visual novels where all the romance builds up to that eventual sex scene
[15:46] <stellarroze> i hope you get buried under a mountain of lolis never to come out again!
[15:47] <nanodesuyo> wouldnt nurin be happy about that?
[15:47] * Lord-Simon ;_;
[15:47] <@Arisu-tan> that sounds unhealthy
[15:47] <stellarroze> shaddup nano
[15:47] <+Lord-Simon> ~desu
[15:47] <@Arisu-tan> Is Fuchi around?
[15:47] <stellarroze> lol
[15:47] <@Arisu-tan> Fuchi~
[15:47] <+Lord-Simon> Fuchin~
[15:47] <stellarroze> fuchi?
[15:47] <@Arisu-tan> Fuchikoma
[15:48] <@Arisu-tan> also known as Smidge
[15:48] <stellarroze> what do you do on BT arisu-tan?
[15:48] <Misogi> Who's Arisu, btw?
[15:48] <@Arisu-tan> I sit here and watch
[15:48] <~Smidge204> ?
[15:48] <stellarroze> i've seen smidge before but i've never talked to him/her
[15:48] <@Arisu-tan> Hey!
[15:48] <~Smidge204> Hoh
[15:48] <~Smidge204> let's go!
[15:48] <@Arisu-tan> Let's go?
[15:48] <@Arisu-tan> XD
[15:48] == Devenk83 [cgiirc@Rizon-5739504B.w83-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
[15:48] <~Smidge204> hurr
[15:48] == Lery [cgiirc@Rizon-ED78B9E8.dclient.hispeed.ch] has left #Baka-Tsuki []
[15:48] <stellarroze> let's go happy!
[15:48] <+Lord-Simon> Never follow a stranger.
[15:48] == mib_xwaouy [cgiirc@Rizon-8FA99D22.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
[15:48] <@Arisu-tan> Actually I was going to ask if you still have the Haruhi light novels sitting around somewhere?
[15:49] == mib_xwaouy has changed nick to Devenk83
[15:49] <~Smidge204> I almost certainly do, since I never (intentionally) delete anything
[15:49] <@Arisu-tan> I lost the old laptop with them, and considering I now own the physical copies of the books (up to 11), I want to reread
[15:49] <@Arisu-tan> also those books are TINY. I can put them in my pockets
[15:50] <~Smidge204> That's the idea, yeas
[15:50] <Nurin> Stellar
[15:50] <Lery2> \nick Lery
[15:50] <Nurin> I hope that become true
[15:50] == Lery2 has changed nick to Lery
[15:50] <~Smidge204> http://www.smidgeindustriesltd.com/haruhi9.jpg
[15:50] <~Smidge204> heh
[15:50] <stellarroze> nurin
[15:50] <@Arisu-tan> well considering the only other light novel I've seen brought to america is Zaregoto, and those are redone as full book forms
[15:51] <@Arisu-tan> I didn't expect the authentic Haruhi novels to be the size of a wallet
[15:51] <@Arisu-tan> You have them too?
[15:52] <~Smidge204> Just that one
[15:52] <Nurin> stellar
[15:52] <@Arisu-tan> How many are there again?
[15:52] <Nurin> you seem to be very slow on typping today
[15:52] <stellarroze> i hope you get buried under a mountain of those blow-up dolls from henneko
[15:52] <Nurin> or you are slow to think
[15:52] <~Smidge204> When it was first released, I bought two copies - one to cut and and scan, one to keep
[15:52] <Nurin> fair enough
[15:52] <~Smidge204> The books are dirt cheap... shipping from Japan? Not so much
[15:52] <Nurin> I hope that you get buried in a moutain with tons of black gay guys
[15:53] <Nurin> you will die from disgust
[15:53] <@Arisu-tan> yeah I got them from osakan, actually
[15:53] <Lery> Why does it turn that way ?
[15:53] <+Lord-Simon> Someone said Azusa ?
[15:54] <stellarroze> i hope you get buried under a mountain of asian traps!
[15:54] <Nurin> Oh simon
[15:54] <Nurin> 拍手
[15:54] <@Arisu-tan> he was moving and sending off all his stuff to other people, and sent me 1-11 in a box. I think I owe him like, $37 for it
[15:54] <Nurin> ok
[15:54] <Nurin> just a question
[15:54] <Nurin> Fish allowed here?
[15:55] <stellarroze> no
[15:55] * Lord-Simon slaps Nurin
[15:55] <Nurin> :(
[15:55] <Nurin> y did I got slapped?
[15:55] <@Arisu-tan> so wait, is Haruhi vol 11 actually the ending?
[15:55] <stellarroze> cos you were mean to me
[15:55] <Nurin> it wasn't supposed to be in stellar?
[15:55] <stellarroze> of course not...
[15:55] * Nurin slaps Stellarroze with a wet towel
[15:56] <stellarroze> ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
[15:56] <stellarroze> why the heck is the towel wet!?
[15:56] * Lord-Simon puts glas in a bag
[15:56] * Lord-Simon puts the bag on Nurin head
[15:56] <Nurin> 'cause I was taking a shower
[15:56] * Lord-Simon starts hitting the bag
[15:56] == Lery has changed nick to Lery2
[15:56] == Lery [cgiirc@Rizon-ED78B9E8.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
[15:56] * Nurin dies
[15:57] <Nurin> argghh...
[15:57] * Lord-Simon chops the body to pieces
[15:57] <Misogi> ... Oh well, nevermind.
[15:57] <Nurin> that hurts
[15:57] * Lord-Simon feeds the dogs
[15:57] * Nurin is born again
[15:57] <Nurin> :(
[15:58] <Nurin> Simon is mean
[15:58] <Nurin> even if I don't die no matter what
[15:58] <stellarroze> thank you my lord!
[15:58] <Nurin> feeding the dogs...
[15:58] <Nurin> oh good
[15:58] <stellarroze> O_O
[15:58] <Nurin> I will try latter
[15:58] <+Lord-Simon> Well, actually that's nothing
[15:59] <+Lord-Simon> I had an appointment by a doctor
[15:59] <Lery> Shouldn't we actually discuss the Wiki matters ???
[15:59] <Nurin> oh Azusa...
[15:59] <Nurin> my heart...
[15:59] <Misogi> TLG is busy implementing the captcha.
[15:59] <Nurin> what?
[15:59] <+Lord-Simon> Hit my foot and the nail started going in the wrong direction and stuff
[15:59] <Nurin> Wiki?
[15:59] <+Lord-Simon> yes
[15:59] <+Lord-Simon> Forums
[15:59] <stellarroze> @Lery that happened like 6 hours ago
[15:59] <+Lord-Simon> Wiki is done
[15:59] <Nurin> who the hell is Wiki?
[16:00] <Nurin> and why it can solve it's own problems
[16:00] <Nurin> ?
[16:00] <+Lord-Simon> And the doc says that a part of the nail has to be removed
[16:00] <+Lord-Simon> Well...
[16:00] <~Smidge204> Uploading...
[16:00] <~Smidge204> They're in plaintext but the illustrations are included
[16:01] <+Lord-Simon> I've seen the scissors and some disinfectant.
[16:01] <+Lord-Simon> nothing else
[16:01] <~Smidge204> I think they're just copypaste from the Wiki's edit box, TBH
[16:01] <Misogi> So, the Copyrights and Protect issues are done, right?
[16:01] <+Lord-Simon> Takes the scissors, shoves it under the nail, cuts
[16:01] <+Lord-Simon> *repeat till done*
[16:02] <~Smidge204> http://www.smidgeindustriesltd.com/Haruhi_vol_1-9_w_illustrations.rar
[16:02] <+Lord-Simon> no
[16:02] <stellarroze> hmmm
[16:03] <stellarroze> i wonder if i forgot my password for the wiki and forums...
[16:03] <+Lord-Simon> ...
[16:03] == Devenk83 [cgiirc@Rizon-8FA99D22.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
[16:03] == Lock [cgiirc@B9361843.C5E4665F.13B9A932.IP] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
[16:03] <+Lord-Simon> I can't forget them
[16:03] <+Lord-Simon> I don't even know them.
[16:03] <krytyk> whats this wall of text
[16:03] <Vallor> lol
[16:03] <krytyk> i go afk for 40 mins
[16:04] <krytyk> wall of text awaits me when im back :(
[16:04] <cloudii> TLG said he wanted to put captcha in first
[16:04] <+Lord-Simon> and then he gone missing
[16:04] <cloudii> thelastguardian is clearly doing the work concurently xD As in… right now.
[16:04] <thelastguardian> yes
[16:04] <krytyk> he put in captcha, now he cant solve it and is stuck in infinite captcha prison
[16:05] <Nurin> oh well
[16:05] <+Lord-Simon> ^^no he's not
[16:05] <+Lord-Simon> he's here
[16:05] <Lock> woah, the great leader.
[16:05] <krytyk> oh~
[16:06] <Lock> how do you save channels, btw?
[16:06] <krytyk> eh?
[16:06] <krytyk> depends on what are you using
[16:06] <Lock> mibbit
[16:06] <+Lord-Simon> save
[16:06] <+Lord-Simon> as in archive ?
[16:06] <@Arisu-tan> Fuchi is awesome~
[16:06] <krytyk> I'm guessing as in auto-connect
[16:06] <Nurin> I will drink a coffee now, and then come back to watch people work a bit more...
[16:06] <Lock> nope, as to not quit each time I close the thing
[16:07] <krytyk> watch people work
[16:07] <krytyk> hidoi
[16:07] <krytyk> another one
[16:07] <krytyk> "I love hard work, I could watch it for hours"
[16:07] <Nurin> Krytyk
[16:07] <Nurin> I have no feelings
[16:07] <@Arisu-tan> this is the busiest I've seen BT in months
[16:08] <Nurin> :)
[16:08] <krytyk> rowdy people came over~
[16:08] <Lery> What about the forum and the spam on the forum, by the way, thelastguardian ???
[16:08] <@Arisu-tan> oh geez I forgot about the wiki formatting in the HAruhi texts
[16:08] <stellarroze> the spam will continue
[16:09] <Nurin> yup
[16:09] <stellarroze> a neverending invasion
[16:09] <Nurin> as long as BN is there
[16:09] <krytyk> like a hydra
[16:09] <Nurin> :D
[16:09] <krytyk> cut off one head
[16:09] <krytyk> thirty appears
[16:09] <Nurin> not three?
[16:09] <Lery> Why not try out something like Akismet ?
[16:09] <Nurin> I always thought it was three...
[16:09] * Lock tries saving the channel on auto-connect
[16:09] <krytyk> its spam hydra
[16:09] <krytyk> not just any hydra
[16:09] == Lock [cgiirc@B9361843.C5E4665F.13B9A932.IP] has quit []
[16:10] == Rock96 [cgiirc@B9361843.C5E4665F.13B9A932.IP] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
[16:11] <thelastguardian> phpbb actually discourages captcha, interesting...
[16:11] * Rock96 failed
[16:11] <thelastguardian> instead they recommand double account verification
[16:11] <stellarroze> what's that?
[16:11] <+Lord-Simon> hmmm...
[16:12] <cloudii> email verification?
[16:12] <stellarroze> that one verification
[16:12] <stellarroze> what's the second one?
[16:12] <krytyk> phone?
[16:12] * stellarroze hugs cloudii
[16:12] <thelastguardian> admin verification
[16:12] <Misogi> A code to type?
[16:12] <Lery> Admin aproval ?
[16:12] <Lery> Heck
[16:12] * cloudii hugs stella
[16:12] <Lery> That's too bothersome for the admin
[16:12] <Misogi> It's time-consuming...
[16:13] <stellarroze> ^
[16:13] <krytyk> its reliable, but not for a big communities
[16:13] <@Arisu-tan> or for the ones with inactive admins
[16:13] <Misogi> Perhaps sending a code to the mail address would work.
[16:13] <thelastguardian> new account can post up to x number of posts before they need the 2nd verification
[16:13] <krytyk> pointless, most of them are blocked after first post
[16:13] <Lery> Do you already use "custom profile fields" ?
[16:14] <thelastguardian> the problem is, every single phpbb captcha method has been cracked
[16:14] <thelastguardian> yeah
[16:14] <+Lord-Simon> Misogi, too easy.
[16:14] == Valdars [~valdar@Rizon-B1271E91.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[16:14] <Misogi> Hmm...
[16:14] == Valdars [~valdar@Rizon-B1271E91.cable.starman.ee] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
[16:14] <Lery> What about reCAPTCHA ??
[16:14] == Slayze [~slayze@is.a.moron] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[16:14] <thelastguardian> cracked in 2011
[16:14] <thelastguardian> https://www.phpbb.com/customise/db/mod/advanced_double_activation_pack/
[16:15] <Lery> The CAPTCHA itself ? Or the extension for phpBB ?
[16:15] <thelastguardian> both
[16:15] <stellarroze> how many forum admins do we have?
[16:15] <Lery> https://www.phpbb.com/customise/db/mod/crazy_maths_captcha_plugin/details/
[16:15] <Lery> ^^
[16:15] <Lery> 2 to my knowledge : TLG and Oni
[16:15] <Misogi> Lery...
[16:15] <stellarroze> okay...
[16:16] <+Lord-Simon> Lery...
[16:16] <Misogi> Find something that an average human can solve.
[16:16] <stellarroze> unless we get more forum admins, double-activation is unfeasible
[16:16] == Warlock_Gaignun [~StrikerFX@The.Time.of.Darkness] has quit []
[16:16] <Lery> Misogi ?  Lord-Simon ? Do you all dislike LaTeX ? ^^
[16:16] <stellarroze> the maths thingy?
[16:16] <+Lord-Simon> No
[16:16] <+Lord-Simon> why
[16:16] <+Lord-Simon> one of the greatest things you can use to write your thesis
[16:16] <Lery> Honestly, everybody can solve little equations like that...
[16:17] <+Lord-Simon> sorry
[16:17] <+Lord-Simon> the thing
[16:17] <Lery> Exactly ^^
[16:17] <+Lord-Simon> sure
[16:17] <+Lord-Simon> that one is broken too
[16:17] <+Lord-Simon> I guess
[16:17] <Rock96> That thingy isn't solvable though?
[16:18] <Lery> Sure it is : 2 \pi n + \pi - sin^(-1)(84)
[16:19] <Rock96> I can't wrap up my head round that syntax
[16:20] <Lery> It's Latex ^^' Sorry for that. Well it's x = 2 pi n+pi-sin^(-1)(84)
[16:20] <nanodesuyo> thats not well defined unless you know if 84 is in radians or degrees
[16:22] <Rock96> ...do you mean arcsin(84) by sin(84) or I'm just reading too deep? Anyway, if I cannot solve it in a minute and I'm a Physics Major...
[16:23] <Lery> True ^^
[16:23] <Rock96> Let's not use it.
[16:23] <+Lord-Simon> lol
[16:23] <Lery> actually, you can simplify by x and multiply by 2 so you have : sin(x) = 84
[16:24] <+Lord-Simon> Shhhh
[16:24] <thelastguardian> that's not...solvable
[16:24] <+Lord-Simon> it's sunday
[16:24] <Lery> So it's sin^(-1)(84) aka arcsin(84)
[16:24] <Lery> ^^'
[16:24] <+Lord-Simon> I don'T want to read things that make me think
[16:24] <Lery> Then that : https://www.phpbb.com/customise/db/mod/simplemath_captcha_plugin/details/
[16:24] * stellarroze doesn't wanna see trig functions D:
[16:24] <Lery> You won't there
[16:25] <Lery> The problem is that everything is outdated anyway
[16:25] <stellarroze> what if people can't do simple math...
[16:25] <Vallor> Mathematics don't interest me. Have a good day/night guys!
[16:25] <Nurin> ya
[16:25] <stellarroze> bye bye vallor
[16:25] <Nurin> Mathematics...
[16:25] <thelastguardian> we already have question captcha
[16:25] <Rock96> ...Ah, I see. So that relies on errors rather than math.
[16:25] <Nurin> Good Grief
[16:26] <thelastguardian> just that the questions are.....
[16:26] == Vallor [cgiirc@Rizon-3DEA5FBB.w86-193.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
[16:26] <Nurin> I have enough of it during the week
[16:26] <stellarroze> the questions are...?
[16:26] <Nurin> the questions are...?
[16:26] <Rock96> C-C-Combo Breaker!
[16:26] <Nurin> the questions are...?
[16:26] <stellarroze> the questions are...?
[16:26] <Nurin> let's spam it stellar :D
[16:27] <stellarroze> okay!
[16:27] <Lery> Already solved given the fact we have spammers...
[16:27] <Nurin> until he answer
[16:27] <thelastguardian> eg: In what month is Baka-Tsuki official birthday in?
[16:27] <Nurin> until he answer
[16:27] * Rock96 hits stella and nurin
[16:27] <+Lord-Simon> ....
[16:27] <Nurin> :/
[16:27] <thelastguardian> i don't know and i am the founder for gawd's sake
[16:27] <stellarroze> i dunno tlg
[16:27] <Lery> Or not yet solved but unsolvable for human being as well
[16:27] <+Lord-Simon> ......
[16:27] <Nurin> oh well
[16:27] <+Lord-Simon> wait
[16:27] <Lery> What the hell...
[16:27] <stellarroze> i never said hi...
[16:27] <Lery> I don't even know that
[16:27] <stellarroze> :(
[16:28] <+Lord-Simon> 17th of march
[16:28] <Lery> Ahahah, you neither ? Well
[16:28] <Lery> That's too much, I agree.
[16:28] <+Lord-Simon> 2009
[16:28] <Lery> Oni was inspired, I guess ^^'
[16:28] <Nurin> I guess TLG doesn't even remember how many years old BT is
[16:28] <Nurin> oh well
[16:28] <thelastguardian> what are some, generic enough to the public, but specific enough?
[16:28] <Nurin> neither me
[16:28] <Rock96> ...2006?
[16:28] <+Lord-Simon> ah
[16:28] <Nurin> how many yers old
[16:28] <thelastguardian> from the forum stat: Board started: 28 Nov 2004 07:52 pm
[16:28] <+Lord-Simon> damn
[16:28] <Nurin> 8?
[16:28] <+Lord-Simon> net and org
[16:28] <Lery> What is the name of the author of [Input LN name here]
[16:28] <Rock96> Damn.
[16:28] <Nurin> no
[16:29] <stellarroze> what does baka mean?
[16:29] <+Lord-Simon> 2005-01-09
[16:29] <Nurin> make the questions
[16:29] <+Lord-Simon> 9th of january
[16:29] <Lery> 28 nov :P
[16:29] <stellarroze> what's the colour of the headband on the baka-tsuki mascot?
[16:29] <Nurin> oh
[16:29] <Nurin> I have no idea
[16:29] <Nurin> D:
[16:29] <+Lord-Simon> orange
[16:30] <Lery> I can't even distinguish colours there...
[16:30] <Nurin> ^
[16:30] <Nurin> that
[16:30] == Lucille [~Altina@twisted.and.corrupted] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
[16:30] <stellarroze> welcome lucille
[16:31] <Rock96> ...How many fingers are shown on that image?
[16:31] <stellarroze> we need questions
[16:31] * Rock96 grins
[16:31] <stellarroze> lol
[16:31] <Misogi> So we'll still use questions?
[16:32] <+Lord-Simon> fingers....
[16:32] <+Lord-Simon> 10
[16:32] <Lucille> I can count the ppl I know here with just 1 finger...
[16:32] <Lucille> and that is myself...
[16:32] <Rock96> Actually, I'd say eight or zero.
[16:32] <cloudii> Just make common sense questions
[16:32] <Nurin> make the questions like
[16:32] <thelastguardian> it's disabled for now, until I find a better batch of questions (no offense to the hard working folks who composed the current batch, but really....)
[16:32] <cloudii> Human many fingers does a human have?
[16:32] <stellarroze> how many vowels are there in  "baka-tsuki"?
[16:32] <Nurin> 1 + 1 = ?
[16:32] <stellarroze> 3!
[16:33] <stellarroze> no
[16:33] <Lucille> 6?
[16:33] <stellarroze> 11!
[16:33] <Nurin> 1 + 1 = 11
[16:33] <Lery> What about things like that : https://www.keycaptcha.com/captcha-for-cms/
[16:33] <Nurin> :D
[16:33] <Rock96> 3! like 3!= 2*3= 6?
[16:33] <Lucille> 39916800
[16:33] <Cthaeh> at one point the idea came around of making the questions based on the forum rules, just one possible source for questions
[16:33] <Lery> Yeah that was a good one
[16:33] <Rock96> No, please.
[16:33] <stellarroze> YES
[16:33] <stellarroze> that's a brilliant idea
[16:34] <stellarroze> cu-kun :D
[16:34] <+Lord-Simon> http://mangapark.com/manga/tokyo-hatsu-isekai-yuki
[16:34] <Lery> Like "What's the third word of the third rule ?"
[16:34] <Misogi> Why not, but we need to clarify the rules.
[16:35] * Rock96 groans
[16:36] * Kira0802 slaps thelastguardian around a bit with a large trout
[16:36] <Lery> Right, we talked about doing so earlier... :|
[16:36] <Kira0802> TLG~~
[16:36] <Nurin> *_*
[16:36] <Nurin> Rikka
[16:36] <Kira0802> Nurin~~
[16:36] <Nurin> long time no see
[16:36] <thelastguardian> i haven't try keycaptcha for a long time (had to use it on smartphones), but i am willing to give it a spin again
[16:36] * stellarroze hugs Kira0802
[16:36] * Kira0802 hugs stella
[16:37] * Nurin hugs Stellar
[16:37] <Kira0802> i'm off for a while,
[16:37] * Lord-Simon feels alone
[16:37] <stellarroze> :(
[16:37] <Kira0802> but TLG, we need more mods
[16:37] <Kira0802> ;_;
[16:37] <Lery> There is a free version and it's pretty much solvable
[16:37] * stellarroze hugs Lord-Simon
[16:37] * Nurin hugs Rikka
[16:37] * Lord-Simon hugs stella
[16:37] <Nurin> free hugs!!!!!
[16:37] * Lord-Simon is happeh~
[16:37] <Nurin> Who want free Hugs!!!!??
[16:37] * Rock96 feels lost
[16:37] * Lord-Simon puches Nurin
[16:37] <thelastguardian> moderators?
[16:37] <Rock96> Again?
[16:37] * Nurin hugs Rock96
[16:38] <Lucille> do i get hugs too?
[16:38] * stellarroze hugs Lucille
[16:38] * Lucille hugs stellarroze.
[16:38] * Nurin Hugs Lord-Simon
[16:38] * Rock96 uses slapstick on Nurin
[16:38] <Lucille> yay
[16:38] * Nurin hugs lucille
[16:38] * Lucille ignores Nurin.
[16:38] <Lucille> (lol)
[16:38] * Lord-Simon pushes Nurin away
[16:38] * Nurin hugs ThelastGuardian
[16:38] * Nurin hugs Nurin
[16:38] <+Lord-Simon> ...
[16:38] <Rock96> ...
[16:38] <Lery> Kira0802, could you elaborate...
[16:38] <stellarroze> ...
[16:38] <Nurin> it's love
[16:38] <Lucille> love thy self
[16:38] <Nurin> and is free
[16:38] <Kira0802> oh yeah
[16:38] <Lery> We have a lot of "FSB" mods nowadays, don't we ?
[16:39] <Nurin> I love myself
[16:39] <stellarroze> what is FSB anyway?
[16:39] * Rock96 prepares slapstick for Nurin again
[16:39] <+Lord-Simon> ...narcissist
[16:39] <Lery> Fringe security bureau
[16:39] <stellarroze> sounds really serious
[16:39] <Nurin> Simon
[16:39] <Kira0802> BT Forums mods are all MIA
[16:39] <Lucille> friends with sexual benefits
[16:39] <Nurin> If I don't love myself
[16:39] <Lery> aka 馬鹿月の衛星保障機構 - Lunatic Fringe Security Bureau
[16:39] <stellarroze> what's the point of the group?
[16:39] <Misogi> We especially need Global Mods.
[16:39] <Kira0802> global mods
[16:39] <Kira0802> except oni
[16:39] <Nurin> how can I expect other people to do so
[16:39] <stellarroze> ping?
[16:39] <Kira0802> and oni comes once every two weeks or so
[16:39] <Nurin> no
[16:39] <Nurin> like once a month
[16:39] <Kira0802> ping stopped moderating since a while
[16:40] <Nurin> or when people bother him
[16:40] <Lery> At first they were thought to moderate the ALF
[16:40] <stellarroze> zzhk?
[16:40] <Nurin> When I saw people
[16:40] <Nurin> I say /me
[16:40] <stellarroze> larethian?
[16:40] <Nurin> Lare-tan
[16:40] <Rock96> Cult Leader?
[16:40] <Nurin> it has a long time that I don't see lare-tan
[16:40] <Kira0802> I'm OK with having no global mods though, if FSB and others can take care of it
[16:40] <stellarroze> fuwafuwa~~~~~~~~~~~
[16:40] <Lery> But they ended up being numerous with mod power and thus are moderating here and there when they see things needing moderation
[16:40] * Nurin feels lonely
[16:41] <Kira0802> And the TL/editor groups are kinda a mess
[16:41] * Rock96 hits Nurin with slapstick. Again
[16:41] <Kira0802> C-Z is an editor there lol
[16:41] <thelastguardian> sigh
[16:41] <Lery> Yeah, but then we come to the matter of "we need an active admin with power to manage groups"
[16:41] <stellarroze> thelastguardian...do you want a hug?
[16:41] <Nurin> lol
[16:41] <Lery> Oni doesn't handle groups so much, only when he has to absolutely.
[16:41] <Nurin> stellar
[16:42] <Nurin> hug me
[16:42] <Nurin> plx
[16:42] * Kira0802 hugs thelastguardian
[16:42] <Kira0802> Hugs first, ask later
[16:42] <Kira0802> <3
[16:42] <+Lord-Simon> Kira is a trap
[16:42] <Rock96> Kira steals the march!
[16:42] <Lucille> (i will take another hug if they arent wanted)
[16:42] * Nurin hugs Kira0802
[16:42] <stellarroze> 'kay~
[16:42] * stellarroze hugs thelastguardian
[16:42] <@Arisu-tan> the entire channel now has hug-herpes
[16:42] * stellarroze hugs Arisu-tan
[16:42] <Rock96> ...I don't?
[16:42] * Nurin hugs stellarroze
[16:42] <stellarroze> i'm sure we'll figure it out
[16:42] <Lucille> you are implying stellar is spreading herpes
[16:42] * Nurin hugs Rock96
[16:43] * Nurin hugs Thelastguardian
[16:43] <+Lord-Simon> TLG ?
[16:43] <stellarroze> not everyone here is a complete baka
[16:43] * Rock96 hits Nurin with slapstick
[16:43] * Nurin hugs everyone
[16:43] <Nurin> oh
[16:43] <Rock96> Stuhp
[16:43] <Nurin> I completely forgot
[16:43] * Nurin hugs Lery
[16:43] <Nurin> my my
[16:43] <Nurin> lery should be feeling lonely
[16:43] <Nurin> give him more attention
[16:43] <Lery> T.T Why ?
[16:43] <Nurin> cause no one hugs you
[16:44] <Nurin> but I do
[16:44] <Lery> Heck, I was hoping to get along without those ^^'
[16:44] * Nurin hugs lery
[16:44] * Rock96 groans
[16:44] <Nurin> hugs are important
[16:44] <Nurin> well
[16:44] <Nurin> we can switch to hand shakes then
[16:44] * Lery struggles
[16:44] <Nurin> :/
[16:44] <Lucille> i dont need hugs from men
[16:44] <Nurin> sigh
[16:44] <Nurin> I am not a man
[16:44] <cautr`off> your hands are filthy
[16:44] <Nurin> neither a trap
[16:44] <cautr`off> that ain't better
[16:44] <Rock96> lol
[16:45] <Nurin> I am a formless entity
[16:45] <Nurin> just that
[16:45] <Misogi> Well... what are we discussing now?
[16:45] <Nurin> hugs?
[16:45] <cautr`off> still discussing?
[16:45] * Rock96 calls Ghost Busters
[16:45] <cautr`off> it's 10.45
 [16:45] <Nurin> I think we should implement a hug sistem on BT
[16:45] <stellarroze> BACK ON TRACK!!!!!!!!!!
[16:45] <thelastguardian> okay, i will leave the forum's captcha aside for now
[16:45] <Misogi> Okay, the captcha is done.
[16:45] <Misogi> Then, regarding the wiki matters.
[16:46] <Lery> Alright
[16:46] <Nurin> TLG ignored everyone hugs
[16:46] <Nurin> how unpolite
[16:46] <Nurin> D:
[16:46] <Lery> TLG what were you able to do until now ?
[16:46] <Nurin> you should hugs them back
[16:46] <stellarroze> we're not on the same level as him nurin
[16:46] <stellarroze> he's the big boss
[16:46] <Misogi> The Copyright and Supervisor Protection things.
[16:46] <Lery> Wiki Captcha is okay now ?
[16:46] <Nurin> oh well
[16:46] * Rock96 breaks slapstick on Nurin's head.
[16:46] <Nurin> I think
[16:46] <Rock96> Should calm him down?
[16:46] <Rock96> Hopefully.
[16:46] <Nurin> that people should hug each other
[16:46] <Lery> Wiki Supervisor can now manage locked page again ?
[16:46] <Rock96> Damn.
[16:46] <thelastguardian> you rather me hugging everyone, or fix the sites? :)
[16:46] <cautr`off> oh my, the lord and savior himself's present?
[16:46] <Nurin> nothing to do with their position
[16:47] <Nurin> :(
[16:47] <Nurin> k
[16:47] <Nurin> go fix that
[16:47] <Nurin> and then hug
[16:47] <+Lord-Simon> server_tokens off;
[16:47] <Nurin> problem solved
[16:47] <cautr`off> then why don't u guys stop spamming and get ur message down to one proper line so that things can actually get done?
[16:47] <+Lord-Simon> add_header X-Frame-Options SAMEORIGIN;
[16:47] <Nurin> k
[16:47] <Nurin> gtg
[16:47] <+Lord-Simon> add_header X-XSS-Protection "1; mode=block";
[16:47] <Lucille> how sophisticated is the wiki's permission masks?
[16:48] <thelastguardian> wait, i am trying to decide which issue to tackle next
[16:48] <+Lord-Simon> Up to you
[16:48] <Lery> thelastguardian, what about that : http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5578
[16:48] <thelastguardian> 1. Copyright link: where's the broken link? The ones I see are all good....
[16:48] <Misogi> Home page.
[16:48] <+Lord-Simon> I won't touch Content-Security-Policy, as it's a pain in the ass.
[16:48] <Lery> it's just an old URL...
[16:49] <thelastguardian> 2. password complexity- easy fix, doing it now (brb)
[16:49] <+Lord-Simon> I'd say
[16:49] <stellarroze> password complexity...?
[16:49] <+Lord-Simon> you can lower the complexity
[16:50] <+Lord-Simon> but increase the minimum length
[16:50] <Lery> Lord-Simon, do we really need add_header X-Frame-Options SAMEORIGIN; ??? Can we use iframe on the wiki ???
[16:50] * stellarroze 's memory is gonna be pushed to the limit
[16:50] <+Lord-Simon> Lerry : http://nyanit.com/baka-tsuki.org
[16:50] == Guest37588 [~nanodesuy@Rizon-6AEA241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
[16:50] <stellarroze> hi guest
[16:51] <Guest37588> give me a free hug or else
[16:51] <Lery> But I agree with the fact that the server_tokens off; option could be a good idea
[16:51] * stellarroze hugs Guest 37588
[16:51] <Lery> Ah ! Okay, I got it ^^'
[16:51] <+Lord-Simon> it's never a good idea to send any information
[16:51] <thelastguardian> sigh
[16:51] <Lery> I though you wanted to protect it in the other direction
[16:52] <Misogi> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/www.baka-tsuki.net/project/index.php?title=Baka-Tsuki:Copyrights
[16:52] <Misogi> -> https://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Baka-Tsuki:Copyrights
[16:52] <stellarroze> oh https
[16:53] <stellarroze> that's weird...
[16:53] <thelastguardian> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/www.baka-tsuki.net/project/index.php?title=Baka-Tsuki:Copyrights <-which page does this happen in?
[16:53] <stellarroze> so the copyright page only exists on the https versin?
[16:53] <Lery> About the add_header X-XSS-Protection "1; mode=block"; is it currently activated by default on any modern browser ?
[16:53] == nanodesuyo [nanodesuyo@slice.of.life] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[16:53] <Misogi> Home, thelastguardian
[16:53] <+Lord-Simon> yes
[16:53] <+Lord-Simon> since long ago
[16:54] <Misogi> The one to the left of the MediaWiki logo.
[16:54] <+Lord-Simon> Probably around 7 month or more
[16:54] == Guest37588 has changed nick to nanodesuyo
[16:54] <Lery> thelastguardian details here : http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5578
[16:54] <+Lord-Simon> If I wanted
[16:54] <+Lord-Simon> I could force people to use the newest browsers
[16:54] <+Lord-Simon> that access some sites
[16:54] <stellarroze> please don't
[16:54] <+Lord-Simon> or the newest updates
[16:55] <Lery> Okay, I thought it was since IE8 ^^'
[16:55] <thelastguardian> interesting, copyright links are fine for me on both http/https
[16:55] <stellarroze> http doesn't work for me
[16:55] <thelastguardian> i will work on the iframe next, just be patient....
[16:56] <Lery> thelastguardian : it's not the copyright link, but the broken image with a link at the very end of every page on the wiki, in the footer ;)
[16:56] * stellarroze hands a plate of cookies to Lord-Simon
[16:56] <Lery> It was at first intended to redirect to the copyright though
[16:57] * Lord-Simon takes a cookie
[16:57] == Wolfpup_ [~Wolfpup@Rizon-82E0A06D.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit []
[16:57] * Lord-Simon is now on the dark side
[16:57] == Wolfpup [~Wolfpup@Rizon-82E0A06D.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
[16:57] <stellarroze> grrrrrrrrrr
[16:58] <Lery> Here is an image of the copyright's problem : http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/7233/bakatsukiemptysquarebug.png
[16:58] <Lery> Position of the blank rectangle however depend on your wiki theme
[17:00] <thelastguardian> okay, fixed. It broke because of a Google Adsense hack
[17:00] <+Lord-Simon> lol
[17:00] <+Lord-Simon> I remember that
[17:00] <+Lord-Simon> one
[17:00] <thelastguardian> next up, XSS
[17:00] <+Lord-Simon> btw. Lery, Widevine is now a standard of Chrome
[17:00] <+Lord-Simon> is always active
[17:01] <Lery> Speaking of https... What about : server {   listen 80;   server_name .baka-tsuki.org;   rewrite ^ https://$host$request_uri permanent; }
[17:01] <Misogi> Supervisor Protection?
[17:01] <thelastguardian> offtopic: for the last week or so, as part of my work i have been looking at hundreds of live drive-by xss sites.....
[17:01] <+Lord-Simon> ah that
[17:01] <+Lord-Simon> only for the login and registration
[17:01] <Lery> Lord-Simon : I hate DRM...
[17:02] <+Lord-Simon> :D
[17:02] <Misogi> "The "supervisors/administrators only" option disappeared, and it's impossible for supervisors to edit pages with that setting."
[17:02] <Lery> Yeah, thelastguardian, this ^ is annoying for the supervisors !
[17:03] <+Lord-Simon> and the supervisors can'T set the protection level higher than the logged in user
[17:04] <Nurin> k
[17:04] <Nurin> bak
[17:04] <stellarroze> wb nurin~
[17:04] <thelastguardian> Lery: which wiki skin are you using?
[17:04] <Lery> Offtopic : Speaking of drive-by, there are nice attacks again old Android version which allow to gain root through visiting a page
[17:04] <+Lord-Simon> loli skin
[17:05] <Lery> Well, the old one...
[17:05] <+Lord-Simon> ah
[17:05] <Lery> But it happens with the new one as well
[17:06] <Misogi> One thing done. Right.
[17:07] <Lery> Here is an image : http://wouaib.ch/images/screenoftbt-copyrights.JPG
[17:07] <Lery> The grey rectangle shouldn't be empty...
[17:07] <Lery> But the link is fine now however
[17:08] <+Lord-Simon> Using Vector skin
[17:08] <Lery> Nice work
[17:08] <Misogi> Well, we should pass on more important subjects...
[17:08] <+Lord-Simon> dropped the cache and the link is ok
[17:08] <Misogi> The link works at least.
[17:08] <Nurin> just a question
[17:08] <cloudii> Finally completed the minutes for the morning session....
[17:08] <cloudii> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Meeting:March302014#Minutes
[17:08] <Lery> Yeah, what about the supervisor inability to manage locked pages ?
[17:08] <Nurin> am I the only one that uses BT in Japanese?
[17:08] <Kira0802> guys
[17:08] <Kira0802> why did you guys put my part with the tree?
[17:08] <Lery>  Certainly... I didn't even know it was ported to JP
[17:09] <Nurin> ya
[17:09] <Lery> Kira0802 : because it's awesome ? =$
[17:09] <+Lord-Simon> TLG, for your info: Failed to load resource: net::ERR_BLOCKED_BY_CLIENT https://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/show_ads.js
[17:09] <+Lord-Simon> oh
[17:09] <+Lord-Simon> wait
[17:09] <+Lord-Simon> that's me
[17:09] <+Lord-Simon> damn
[17:10] <Lery> Lol, I just discovered that BT had a "google adsense" place on the left ^^'''
[17:10] <Nurin> oh
[17:10] <+Lord-Simon> Well
[17:10] <Nurin> you didn't know that?
[17:10] <Lery> Guys, let's all go and click it
[17:10] <Nurin> TLG made a good job hiding that
[17:11] <Nurin> :D
[17:11] <Lery> It's for the sake of BT ^^'
[17:11] <Nurin> oh well
[17:11] <+Lord-Simon> Well, there was also the fun with B-T
[17:11] <+Lord-Simon> and AdSense
[17:11] <Lery> Which fun ?
[17:11] <Lery> I missed it ?
[17:12] <Nurin> oh
[17:12] <+Lord-Simon> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=High_School_DxD:Volume_4_Life_1
[17:12] <Nurin> the one with DxD?
[17:12] <Nurin> oh well
[17:12] <Nurin> TLG had to remove the AD from the page
[17:13] <Nurin> 'cause the content was too ecchi
[17:13] <Nurin> lol
[17:13] <Lery> ??? Ahahahhaha
[17:13] <+Lord-Simon> :D
[17:13] <Lery> Exceptional
[17:13] <Nurin> I wonder
[17:13] <Kira0802> lol
[17:13] <Nurin> Why do I keep getting emails from porn sites offering me to drop their prices, even though I never registered in one...
[17:14] <Kira0802> liar
[17:14] <Lery> Does the ad cover even 10% of the server fee, thelastguardian ???
[17:14] <Kira0802> i never got one
[17:14] <Kira0802> Nurin def registered
[17:14] <Nurin> Kira
[17:14] <Nurin> you is related with traffic of sexual slaves
[17:14] <Kira0802> me it's FB
[17:14] <Nurin> you have nothing to base yourself
[17:14] <Kira0802> doesn't count
[17:14] <Kira0802> :DD
[17:14] <Nurin> yeah
[17:14] <Nurin> it counts
[17:14] <Kira0802> no
[17:14] <Kira0802> :<
[17:15] <Kira0802> I blame AL
[17:15] <Nurin> it does
[17:15] <Nurin> You should blame yourselfe
[17:15] <Misogi> ... Almost midnight, huh...
[17:15] <Nurin> hahahaha
[17:15] <thelastguardian> i don't have the copyright icon (my old wiki installation doesn't have that)
[17:15] <Nurin> you should go sleep
[17:15] <thelastguardian> so that's that
[17:15] <+Lord-Simon> ok
[17:15] <thelastguardian> as for the XSS, I put in the SAMEORIGIN header option into nginx config file
[17:15] <+Lord-Simon> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=User:Pumkingboyz/Sandbox:Main_page_proposal
[17:16] <Misogi> Let's move on, then.
[17:16] <+Lord-Simon> now fire configtest and reload
[17:16] <thelastguardian> impressive
[17:16] <+Lord-Simon> so...
[17:16] <+Lord-Simon> that's a yes for the change ?
[17:16] <Nurin> reload the cannons
[17:16] <Nurin> 30 seconds to do that bastards
[17:16] <thelastguardian> if no one has any objection
[17:16] <Lery> Alright ^^
[17:16] <thelastguardian> then yes, you have green light
[17:17] <Lery> What about the supervisor rights ? Did you do that already ?
[17:17] <thelastguardian> but, hmm, i guess no one here except for me has the edit right?
[17:17] <Misogi> Hence Lery's remark.
[17:17] <+Lord-Simon> Ok, I'm gonna change the page
[17:17] <Misogi> We'd do it if we could.
[17:17] <+Lord-Simon> front page
[17:18] <Lery> Actually Supervisors used to have them, but with the update the rights disappeared, as we already discussed.
[17:18] <thelastguardian> okay, let me make sure the XSS stuff is fixed first
[17:18] <+Lord-Simon> ah
[17:18] <+Lord-Simon> yeah
[17:18] <+Lord-Simon> forgot
[17:19] <thelastguardian> that iframe nyancat hijack only works on the front page
[17:19] <thelastguardian> now
[17:19] <+Lord-Simon> ah
[17:19] <+Lord-Simon> tlg
[17:19] <+Lord-Simon> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Baka-Tsuki:About#Baka-Tsuki_Media_Platforms
[17:19] <Lery> @thelastguardian seems good to me
[17:20] <+Lord-Simon> I can't edit the front page
[17:20] <+Lord-Simon> forgot that the rights changed
[17:21] <Kira0802> lol
[17:21] <Kira0802> I can delete the page but not edit it
[17:21] <thelastguardian> lol
[17:22] <thelastguardian> the mediawiki permission config section is a mess (since the wiki is 10 years old already, it has many left over junk)
[17:22] <Nurin> oh well
[17:22] <Nurin> good luck on that
[17:22] <Nurin> (The only thing I can say)
[17:23] <thelastguardian> plus mediawiki version updates doesn't add variables automatically into the config file... <-probably what causes the breakage
[17:23] <stellarroze> ganbatte!
[17:23] <+Lord-Simon> ...
[17:23] <stellarroze> ?
[17:23] <Misogi> Two things done (Copyright and Main Page).
[17:23] <+Lord-Simon> doesn't it let you generate it anew ?
[17:23] <Misogi> The topics' page was edited.
[17:26] <thelastguardian> there are way too many modifications
[17:26] <thelastguardian> due to the way we we mediawiki (mostly has to do with the 100kb+ pages)
[17:26] <Misogi> So it must be done from scratch.
[17:26] <thelastguardian> we use*
[17:27] <Lery> Hell
[17:27] <Misogi> Well, some powers we were supposed to have aren't available, so that explains why.
[17:27] <Lery> Well, wouldn't redoing every groups be faster than cleaning up the old config file ?
[17:28] <thelastguardian> i don't want to get 10+ regression reports :)
[17:28] <+Lord-Simon> ^
[17:28] <Lery> ^^'
[17:28] <thelastguardian> https://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Special:ListGroupRights
[17:28] <+Lord-Simon> We also have a defined list of
[17:28] <Kira0802> Lery, what are regression reports?
[17:29] <+Lord-Simon> Edit pages protected as "Administrators/supervisors only" (editprotected)
[17:29] <+Lord-Simon>  Edit pages protected as "Allow only autoconfirmed users" (editsemiprotected)
[17:29] <+Lord-Simon> That what is missing in the supervisor right
[17:29] <+Lord-Simon> s
[17:29] <+Lord-Simon> like the last time
[17:29] <+Lord-Simon> adn Change protection levels and edit cascade-protected pages (protect)
[17:30] <Lery> @Kira0802, well, it's a report you get when there are new regression/failures
[17:30] <Kira0802> kk
[17:32] <Lery> @Kira0802 : whenever you make change to the wiki it may break something, so the wiki has some self tests to control whether it's the case or not. And such a change is a major change and would  shake up the wiki regression routine...
[17:33] <Lery> There are a lot of people in those groups...
[17:37] <Kira0802> so
[17:37] <Kira0802> what's going on now?
[17:38] <thelastguardian> okay, i've added the permissions
[17:38] <cloudii> yay :3
[17:38] <+Lord-Simon> I SEE EDIT BUTTON
[17:38] <+Lord-Simon> hurray
[17:38] <+Lord-Simon> gonna edit the main page
[17:39] <Lery> Good
[17:40] <Lery> Well, I can't check it, but Misogi sure will ;) (You have to change the link on the SAO page, as a remainder ^^)
[17:40] <Misogi> It works.
[17:42] == gaosaur [~dqsdqs@gaogao.makes.the.gaosaur] has quit [Quit: -=SysReset 2.55=-]
[17:42] <Lery> Ah and the link on the Hidan_no_Aria page too
[17:42] <Lery> to Hidan_no_Aria_-_Français
[17:42] <Misogi> I'll do it.
[17:42] <Kira0802> speaking of which
[17:42] <Kira0802> SAO/AW sub-forum should be moved to abandonned
[17:43] <Lery> Yeah T.T
[17:43] <Misogi> We'll speak of forum issues now.
[17:43] <Misogi> There are simpler things before that.
[17:44] <thelastguardian> okay, so the wiki permission is considered fixed?
[17:44] <stellarroze> why isn't sword art online in the abandoned tab on wthe wiki already?
[17:44] <krytyk> there was something more...
[17:44] <stellarroze> volume 1 is coming out next month
[17:44] <krytyk> the protect/unprotect thing someone had problem with
[17:44] <krytyk> zzhk was it
[17:44] <thelastguardian> hmmmm, that's a good question
[17:44] <Misogi> Yes, although it'd be better to redo the permission config section.
[17:44] <Misogi> But later.
[17:45] <Lery> About the forum, why don't you quickly click the "prune users" button, thelastguardian ? ;)
[17:45] <thelastguardian> anyone wants to response to that SAO issue?
[17:45] <Lery> I guess we could move it...
[17:45] == Warlock_Gaignun [~StrikerFX@Rizon-9AAAA8C0.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
[17:45] <thelastguardian> because i get enough 'Why is my account banned/deactivated/missing' emails as it is
[17:45] <Lery> But any way, there were lot of discussion about changing the sidebar
[17:46] <stellarroze> we should delete the SAO project...
[17:46] <stellarroze> it's long overdue
[17:46] <Kira0802> delete the chapters*
 [17:46] <Lery> No deletion stella !
[17:46] <stellarroze> yes
[17:46] <stellarroze> volume 1 is coming out next month
[17:46] <Lery> Just move it to the abandoned projects
[17:46] <Kira0802> leave empty page for archives
[17:46] <thelastguardian> Well, let's not make SAO publisher work any easier
[17:46] <stellarroze> and neko said that SAO has also be licensed in france
[17:46] <thelastguardian> we will give the translators a 1 week advance warning
[17:47] <thelastguardian> (and the readers)
[17:47] <Misogi> I'll handle that matter.
[17:47] <Lery> Yeah looks like it was, and not only in France
[17:47] <stellarroze> but it's coming out in november so i guess we don't have to delete it now
[17:47] <stellarroze> ah
[17:47] <stellarroze> okay miso
[17:47] <Kira0802> They've been warned and crying since a few months ago
[17:47] <Kira0802> lol
[17:47] <Lery> Actually the 6 first volume were already removed
[17:47] <thelastguardian> but we've been silent on that front, so I think they can get the extra week freebie :)
[17:47] <stellarroze> SAO and Accel World should have been deleted as soon as we heard that they were licensed...
[17:47] <thelastguardian> lol
[17:47] == fiendmaw [~Marius@71E6C888:D019A1A0:1DA501B7:IP] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[17:48] <thelastguardian> huh
[17:48] <Lery> The SAO Yen Press' licence is only covering the volume 1 to 4 as of now
[17:48] <stellarroze> how do you know?
[17:48] <Kira0802> ^
[17:48] == coldacid [~chris@ask.me.about.my.powerlevels] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[17:48] <Kira0802> I'm curious too
[17:48] <Kira0802> That was a question we were asking at the time of Shana
[17:48] <stellarroze> and if that's the case why isn't zero no tsukaima placed in abandoned since seven seas still has the license for it?
[17:49] <Kira0802> lol seven seas
[17:49] <Lery> Well if I remember well the reason why we didn't deleted the other volume, it's that...
[17:49] <stellarroze> no seriously
[17:49] <stellarroze> they're making a comeback with light novels
[17:49] <Misogi> May we move on to the other topics?
[17:49] <stellarroze> hai...
[17:50] <thelastguardian> let me look at the SAO page first
[17:50] * stellarroze gives Misogi a double-chocolate cookie
[17:51] <Kira0802> Speaking of which, can we revert the deletion of HnA's registration page?
[17:51] <thelastguardian> iirc we didn't delete Shana because by all intends and purposes, the publisher has abandoned the series
[17:51] <thelastguardian> is it still true?
[17:51] <Kira0802> still true
[17:51] <stellarroze> yep
[17:52] <thelastguardian> since everyone loves SAO, I am guessing the publisher will not abandon it in this case
[17:52] <Kira0802> it's Yen Press
[17:52] <Kira0802> Yen Press doesn't drop a novel
[17:53] <stellarroze> ^
[17:53] <Lery> Yeah, Yen Press does good work ^^
[17:53] <Kira0802> at least, i don't remember them doing so
[17:53] == coldacid [~chris@DC3BF32E.EBC55585.5F3AA997.IP] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
[17:53] <stellarroze> Accel World too
[17:53] <thelastguardian> well, then the solution is clear then
[17:53] <stellarroze> they haven't
[17:53] <+Lord-Simon> HEY
[17:53] <+Lord-Simon> GUYS
[17:53] <+Lord-Simon> one thing
[17:53] <Lery> They go up to the end
[17:53] <+Lord-Simon> I have to confirm
[17:53] <Lery> Was ist denn los ?
[17:53] <Kira0802> ?
[17:53] <Lery> You shrieking Itsuki
[17:54] <+Lord-Simon> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Help:Getting_Started
[17:54] <+Lord-Simon> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Baka-Tsuki:Rules
[17:54] <+Lord-Simon> Will be completed and used
[17:54] <+Lord-Simon> right ?
[17:54] <Kira0802> yes
[17:54] <Lery> For the help page, it doesn't need the draft anymore
[17:54] <Lery> Yeah
[17:54] <Misogi> Yes.
[17:54] <Lery> Cloud is in charge
[17:54] <Kira0802> Rules will be edited iirc
[17:54] <Lery> And is fired up.
[17:54] == Warlock_Gaignun [~StrikerFX@The.Time.of.Darkness] has quit []
[17:55] <+Lord-Simon> good
[17:55] <Lery> However it will need some TLC... Or maybe just C ^^'
[17:56] <Kira0802> So yeah, TLG, I was asking if it was possible to revert HnA's registration page so we can pay tribute to their contributors
[17:56] <thelastguardian> anyway, so all SAO volumes will be gone in 1 week. Anyway comment?
[17:56] <Kira0802> (And leave Nera's name ;_;)
[17:56] <thelastguardian> eh, I thought we keep them already?
[17:56] <Misogi> No problems.
[17:57] <Misogi> One week then.
[17:57] <Kira0802> @TLG Got deleted
[17:57] <thelastguardian> huh
[17:57] <thelastguardian> well, don't delete them next time
[17:57] <thelastguardian> i can undelete it
[17:57] <Nurin> oh well
[17:57] <Misogi> No need to.
[17:57] <Nurin> TLG
[17:57] <Lery> Actually TehPing was handling SAO I think, but...
[17:57] <Nurin> you don't know the pain it was
[17:57] <Nurin> :/
[17:58] <Nurin> BT divided in three factions:
[17:58] <Misogi> Undoing that will cause more problems.
[17:58] <thelastguardian> Kira0802: send me the link of the deleted page
[17:58] <+Lord-Simon> And we moved to the new main page.
[17:58] <Nurin> The "let's delete it" The "Let's wait" and the "I don't care either way"
[17:58] <thelastguardian> Was TehPing here this morning?
[17:59] <Misogi> Nope.
[17:59] <Nurin> nope
[17:59] <Lery> nope
[17:59] <thelastguardian> or noon in Europe
[17:59] <Nurin> Ping is never here
[17:59] <Nurin> no
[17:59] <Nurin> the only way to get ping
[17:59] <Nurin> is in FB
[17:59] <Nurin> he spwn there at random times
[17:59] <+Lord-Simon> wait
[17:59] <Nurin> pawn*
[17:59] <Nurin> spawn*
[17:59] <+Lord-Simon> 204 projects...
[17:59] <thelastguardian> I recall that he handles SAO for the entire time
[17:59] <Lery> not only, you may try to translate some BL or GL or worse and he would show up...
[17:59] <Kira0802> @TLG I can't find the old project page
[17:59] <Kira0802> or the registration page
[17:59] == Warlock_Gaignun [~StrikerFX@The.Time.of.Darkness] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
[17:59] <thelastguardian> it will be respectful to alert him of our intention
[18:00] <Lery> Yes we should
[18:00] <Misogi> We shouldn't repost the volumes.
[18:00] <Lery> Yes, we shouldn't
[18:00] <Nurin> TLG
[18:00] <thelastguardian> I don't use facebook, so someone tell him of our intention
[18:00] <Nurin> if you want to drop a message
[18:00] <Nurin> I or Simon can drop at his box
[18:01] <Lery> Nurin, you're in charge then :P
[18:01] <Kira0802> it should be this like though: https://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Hidan_No_Aria:Registration_Page
[18:01] <Misogi> It'll cause problems, not to mention the backlash on BT's reputation.
[18:01] <Nurin> just leave here and I CRTL C and CTRL V
[18:01] <+Lord-Simon> "it will be respectful to alert him of our intention"
[18:01] <+Lord-Simon> him ?
[18:02] <Rock96> Ping
[18:02] <Nurin> oh well
[18:02] <Nurin> anyways
[18:02] <Nurin> you do that Simon?
[18:03] <thelastguardian> anyway, let's not announce the deletion until we infrom TehPing
[18:03] <stellarroze> when will Accel World be deleted? a month before it's released?
[18:03] <thelastguardian> inform*
[18:03] <stellarroze> hai!
[18:03] <thelastguardian> is there a person in charge of Accel World?
[18:03] <Lery> Here is the real one, Kira0802
[18:03] <Lery> https://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Hidan_no_Aria:Registration_Page&action=edit&redlink=1
[18:04] <Lery> it had a "no" instead of a "No"
[18:04] <Rock96> Um, no one handled AW, I think
[18:05] <thelastguardian> well, i've undeleted it
[18:05] <stellarroze> thelastguardian - there's no project supervisor
[18:05] <thelastguardian> it = AnH registration page
[18:05] <thelastguardian> HnA*
[18:05] <Nurin> AnH?
[18:05] <Nurin> D:
[18:05] <thelastguardian> Japanese is hard
[18:05] <Nurin> anyways
[18:05] <Nurin> TLG
[18:05] <Nurin> what you want to be said to Ping?
[18:05] <+Lord-Simon> wait
[18:05] <+Lord-Simon> let me add
[18:06] <+Lord-Simon> Twin Black Swords, Twin Silver Wings
[18:06] <+Lord-Simon> download it
[18:06] <+Lord-Simon> and hten you candelete it
[18:07] <thelastguardian> brb in 5 min
[18:08] <Lery> Well I gotta sleep...
[18:09] <Lery> I'm waking up early tomorrow, well today already T.T
[18:09] <Kira0802> thanks lery
[18:09] * Kira0802 hugs Lery
[18:09] * Misogi sees that there are many topics still waiting... but not enough time...
[18:09] <cloudii> thanks lery <3
[18:09] <thelastguardian> ok, thanks Lery
[18:09] <Misogi> Thanks Lery
[18:09] <stellarroze> sweet dreams Lery~
[18:09] <Nurin> TLG
[18:09] <Nurin> I have a aquestion
[18:09] <Lery> By the way, thelastguardian : plz, press the "prune users" button on the forum
[18:10] <Nurin> did you talk to Oni lately?
[18:10] <Misogi> ^ Clean up of users created before 2014
[18:10] <Lery> We have tons of spam account
[18:10] <Lery> Oni is on Twitter nowadays, no ?
[18:10] <Nurin> ya
[18:10] <Nurin> but well
[18:10] <Nurin> there's a problem
[18:10] <Nurin> that he wanted me to solve
[18:11] <Nurin> he went to the point
[18:11] <thelastguardian> Lery: that phpbb double verification mod will take care of that
[18:11] <Nurin> to tell me that I should take my cike
[18:11] <Nurin> and go search for TLG
[18:11] <Nurin> 'cause he didn't anwswer oni's mails
[18:11] <Kira0802> lol
[18:11] <thelastguardian> ?
[18:11] <Misogi> Actually, thelastguardian, we need a clean-up of all users created before 2014, and without a single message.
[18:11] <thelastguardian> who?
[18:12] <Kira0802> bbl, dinner
[18:12] <Misogi> On the forum*
[18:12] <Lery> Epic oni ^^
[18:12] <Nurin> Anyways
[18:12] <Nurin> TLG
[18:12] <Nurin> oni wants rights to use BT's blog
[18:12] <+Lord-Simon> "all users created before 2014, and without a single message."
[18:12] <Nurin> and he said can't do that
[18:12] <Nurin> :(
[18:13] <+Lord-Simon> taht
[18:13] <+Lord-Simon> *that
[18:13] <thelastguardian> misogi: the mod will clean them in 6 weeks time
[18:13] <+Lord-Simon> give the rights to someone who is most of the time online
[18:14] <+Lord-Simon> I mean about the blog
[18:14] <Misogi> I see.
[18:14] <Nurin> oh well
[18:14] <cloudii> Did we get a chance to assign more users who can unban?
[18:14] <cloudii> because there's still a few members still sitting banned in that thread......
[18:14] <+Lord-Simon> We'll find people who want to write an article
[18:14] <Misogi> It hasn't been mentionned, cloudii.
[18:15] <thelastguardian> as for the blog
[18:15] <thelastguardian> i am thinking of making someone the administrator for that
[18:15] <+Lord-Simon> ?
[18:15] <Nurin> oh
[18:15] <Nurin> good one
[18:15] <+Lord-Simon> Ah
[18:15] <Lery> Yeah, right, the ban/unban powers were removed from the FSB, which is right, but from the FSB team leaders as well, which is less good imo...
[18:15] <+Lord-Simon> yes
[18:15] <thelastguardian> that person will have FULL CONTROL
[18:15] <Lery> Hell I really gotta go
[18:15] <+Lord-Simon> I volunteer
[18:15] <Nurin> me not
[18:15] <Nurin> lol
[18:15] <Lery> Isn't kira already admin of the blog ?
[18:16] <thelastguardian> Not entirely
[18:16] <Lery> Okay.
[18:16] <+Lord-Simon> Normal writer
[18:16] <Nurin> then give him
[18:16] <thelastguardian> i don't like how the current wordpress is setup
[18:16] <+Lord-Simon> or wait
[18:16] <+Lord-Simon> how is it called
[18:16] <+Lord-Simon> btw
[18:16] <thelastguardian> the new person can decide which software to use
[18:16] <thelastguardian> CMS*
[18:16] <+Lord-Simon> when was the last time you updated
[18:16] <Nurin> Kira is the one that have nothing to do anyways
[18:16] <Nurin> :D
[18:16] <+Lord-Simon> the blogging software
[18:16] <Lery> long ago I guess
[18:16] <thelastguardian> last month, i think
[18:16] <+Lord-Simon> Well tlg, there are only a few options
[18:16] <Lery> really ?
[18:17] <Lery> But the blog is dead, isn't he ?
[18:17] <thelastguardian> i see a lot of wordpress exploits
[18:17] <+Lord-Simon> WP is one of them
[18:17] <Nurin> we are reviving
[18:17] <Nurin> it
[18:17] <thelastguardian> yeah, that's why i want to change it
[18:17] <cloudii> I have plenty of ideas for the blog
[18:17] <Nurin> Yup
[18:17] <cloudii> and I wouldn't mind writing, but I don't want Admin privileges.......
[18:17] <+Lord-Simon> there is also Ghost
[18:17] <Nurin> cloud is a good one
[18:17] <+Lord-Simon> no one will use Typo3
[18:17] <Nurin> he can watch us from the sky
[18:17] == coldacid [~chris@ask.me.about.my.powerlevels] has quit [Quit: dammit windows making me reboot again]
[18:17] <Nurin> this is needed
[18:17] <+Lord-Simon> Even I don't want to touch that
[18:18] <Nurin> TLG
[18:18] <Nurin> Push the Admin on cloudii
[18:18] <Nurin> :D
[18:18] <cloudii> noooooooooo
[18:18] <+Lord-Simon> I can take over the admin privileges
[18:18] <Nurin> :(
[18:18] <Nurin> not fun
[18:18] * Lord-Simon punches Nurin
[18:18] <Nurin> we need someone that is tsudere
[18:18] <cloudii> It takes enough of my time to sit there are post recent updates
[18:18] <cloudii> @____@
[18:18] <+Lord-Simon> ^he does
[18:19] <Kira0802> back
[18:19] == ProBlackbird [~ProBlackb@AB177B2B.E1386DB6.26A16AAF.IP] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[18:19] <Nurin> Rikka
[18:19] <Nurin> we are talking bad things about you
[18:19] <Nurin> were*
[18:19] * stellarroze hugs thelastguardian
[18:19] * stellarroze hugs misogi
[18:19] * stellarroze hugs cloudii
[18:20] <Kira0802> what do you guys want of me?
[18:20] <stellarroze> you guys are awesome!
[18:20] <thelastguardian> Lord-Simon, do you have any particular idea in mind on how to run the blog?
[18:20] <Nurin> everything
[18:20] <cloudii> actually Simon, do you mind if we locate a second recent-update watcher?
[18:20] <Nurin> Rikka
[18:20] <cloudii> Because I think I know a reader who might be willing to do it
[18:20] <+Lord-Simon> From administrative rights or as a blogger ?
[18:20] <Nurin> damnn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[18:20] <cloudii> just blogger
[18:20] <cloudii> on the other facebook page
[18:20] <cloudii> we can test him
[18:20] <Nurin> anananabnabajiasbkjfasojgvbwffsavbdsghpspzgh
[18:21] <Nurin> rikka
[18:21] <cloudii> I know that Mehedi Hasan Himel watches that Recent Updates page a lot….
[18:21] <Nurin> 貴方の全てが欲しいもの
[18:21] <Nurin> :D
[18:21] <cloudii> posts updates in mchan before I even see them
[18:21] <Nurin> that should be enough for today
[18:21] <thelastguardian> when i say 'full control', i meant 1. layout of the site 2. format of the site 3. contents of the site 4. coordinating between different post contributors
[18:21] <+Lord-Simon> "second recent-update watcher"
[18:21] <Misogi> Lord-Simon, what was done on the "Security" topic?
[18:22] <thelastguardian> starting from the CMS :)
[18:22] <cloudii> I recommend Simon
[18:22] <Nurin> I recommend Cloudii
[18:22] <Nurin> :D
[18:22] <cloudii> D:
[18:22] <+Lord-Simon> CMS
[18:22] <nanodesuyo> i recommend cloudii
[18:22] <cloudii> DDDDD:
[18:22] <Nurin> we need someone who watch us from the sky
[18:22] <+Lord-Simon> You probably want something running on php
[18:22] <nanodesuyo> cloudii is omniscient
[18:22] <Nurin> a wild nano appears
[18:22] <Misogi> Simon get my support.
[18:22] <+Lord-Simon> as to not change a software
[18:23] <Nurin> what do you do?
[18:23] <+Lord-Simon> or add anything else to the server
[18:23] == coldacid [~chris@DC3BF32E.EBC55585.5F3AA997.IP] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
[18:23] <+Lord-Simon> brb 5 min
[18:23] <Nurin> >Fight >Flee >Offer Bananas >Do nothing
[18:23] <cloudii> I would recommend Simon or Kira for full admin rights for the blog
[18:23] <cloudii> I don't know how busy Kira is lately though
[18:23] <Nurin> noooooo
[18:23] <Nurin> Rikka
[18:23] <Nurin> is
[18:23] * thelastguardian will be afk for 10 minutes
[18:23] <Nurin> a
[18:23] <Nurin> lazy
[18:23] <Nurin> ass
[18:23] == wet [~young98@18B49CE.58FE0283.F0143159.IP] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[18:24] <Nurin> but
[18:24] <stellarroze> cloudii and simon!!!
[18:24] <Nurin> I
[18:24] <Nurin> still
[18:24] <Nurin> like
[18:24] <Lery> Ghost is a nice one if you dislike WP
[18:24] <stellarroze> cloudii is kawaii
[18:24] <Nurin> him/her
[18:24] <stellarroze> simon is my lord!
[18:24] == wet [~young98@18B49CE.58FE0283.F0143159.IP] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
[18:24] <Nurin> Even though I know Rikka for a good time already
[18:24] <nanodesuyo> i recommend cloudii for Potus.
[18:24] <Nurin> I still can't define his/her gender
[18:24] <Kira0802> I'm busy
[18:24] <Nurin> like Hideyoshi
[18:25] <Nurin> don't lie
[18:25] <Nurin> I am busy
[18:25] <+Lord-Simon> "00:17:35 Lord-Simon  there is also Ghost"
[18:25] <Nurin> we can't have two people busy
[18:25] <Lery> Well, I'm really going now. Have a nice night/day according to your time-zone.
[18:25] <Lery> Bye
[18:25] <+Lord-Simon> But Ghost is not really load friendly
[18:25] <Nurin> it's agains the Neet/Hikikomori's rules
[18:25] <Kira0802> gnight
[18:25] <Nurin> Lery...
[18:25] <Lery> Thanks thelastguardian for coming ^^
[18:25] <Nurin> you still didn;t go...
[18:25] <Nurin> oh well
[18:26] <Nurin> g'night
[18:26] <Nurin> :D
[18:26] <cloudii> bye Lery~
[18:26] <Kira0802> I have to edit shikkin
[18:26] <Kira0802> and magdala
[18:26] <Nurin> k
[18:26] <Lery> @Nurin yeah, I'm awful ^^' Always too late on BT
[18:26] <Nurin> brb 2 min
[18:26] <cloudii> I have to edit Biblia and Clockwork D:< xD
[18:26] <Rock96> g'night, Lery
[18:26] <Kira0802> hi rock
[18:26] <Kira0802> are you still rock hard? :DDDD
[18:26] <Misogi> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Meeting:March302014
[18:26] <Rock96> And I needed to go to sleep... five hours ago -.-
[18:26] <stellarroze> who wants a hug!?
[18:27] <stellarroze> :D
[18:27] <Kira0802> rock
[18:27] <Lery> Lord-Simon, you're logging the IRC, right ?
[18:27] <nanodesuyo> can i have two hugs?
[18:27] <Misogi> Please tell if anything else was corrected (especially the Security part).
[18:27] <Rock96> Hug me. I'm sleep deprived
[18:27] <+Lord-Simon> yes
[18:27] <Lery> I'll read it tomorrow then ^^
[18:27] <+Lord-Simon> day and night
[18:27] <Lery> Bye
[18:27] <Rock96> And will be till three hours later
[18:27] * Misogi is tired.
[18:27] <+Lord-Simon> k
[18:27] * Lery too and is going to go and sleep
[18:28] <+Lord-Simon> Where do I post the raw log ?
[18:28] * Lery is leaving
[18:28] * Rock96 still reads history assignment
[18:28] <Misogi> Talk section.
[18:28] <cloudii> After the raw log that was posted this morning
[18:28] == Lery [cgiirc@Rizon-ED78B9E8.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
[18:28] == Lery2 [~lery@Rizon-ED78B9E8.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de]
[18:28] <nanodesuyo> STELLA YOU PROMISED ME HUGS AND PROMISES WERE NOT KEPT. Now I am D:
[18:28] <cloudii> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Talk:Meeting:March302014#Complete_Log_of_the_Meeting
[18:29] * stellarroze hugs nanodesuyo
[18:29] <nanodesuyo> two please :(
[18:29] * stellarroze hugs Rock96
[18:29] * stellarroze hugs nanodesuyo
[18:29] * Misogi is waiting for clarifications over the Security matters.
[18:29] <nanodesuyo> thank you :)
[18:29] * Kira0802 hugs stella
[18:29] <Rock96> Yeah, thanks
[18:30] <cloudii> tbh, I wasn't watching this conversation xD technical details are beyond me
[18:30] * Kira0802 hugs rock
[18:30] * Rock96 wonders if Kira is a trap
[18:30] <stellarroze> NO.
[18:30] <Misogi> @cloudii: Same here, hence that's why I'd like the exact changes.
[18:31] <Nurin> k
[18:31] <Nurin> bak
 [18:31] * stellarroze hugs Nurin
[18:31] <+Lord-Simon> thelastguardian, even if it sounds lazy. WordPress is still the best option here
[18:31] * Nurin hugs stellar back
[18:32] <Nurin> i forgot it
[18:32] <cloudii> Can you do something like blogger or the not-self-hosted wp and use our domain name?
[18:32] * Nurin hugs cloudii
[18:32] * Kira0802 cuddles Simon
[18:32] <cloudii> That's even easier xD but less control
[18:32] <+Lord-Simon> it runs on PHP and is easiest to use
[18:32] * Nurin hugs nanodesuyo
[18:32] <Lucille> i want a hug too
[18:32] * Nurin hugs lucille
[18:32] * Lucille ignores Nurin.
[18:33] <cloudii> I hadn't realized this room had become such a cuddle-fest
[18:33] <Nurin> too late
[18:33] <Nurin> lol
[18:33] * stellarroze hugs Lucille
[18:33] * Lucille hugs stellarroze.
[18:33] * Kira0802 cuddles cloudii
[18:33] <nanodesuyo> kira creepy
[18:33] <+Lord-Simon> There are CMS like: Django-CMS, Ghost, Typo3 and Joomla!
[18:33] <Kira0802> cloudii is like a fluffy cloud in my head
[18:33] * cloudii too sleepy to care
[18:33] <Kira0802> Simon is a fluffy bear
[18:33] <+Lord-Simon> Which I used at some time for test
[18:33] <Kira0802> :DD
[18:34] <+Lord-Simon> Django-CMS requires time investment to make the site look good and you have to create templates.
[18:34] <+Lord-Simon> There are some that look good, but still...
[18:35] <+Lord-Simon> Ghost runs on NodeJS
[18:35] <+Lord-Simon> and isn't that cpu friendly
[18:36] <cloudii> Question: On the sidebar, is there are reason why the Facebook link goes to the facebook group, but not the "other facebook page"? Is it worthwhile to have links to both?
[18:36] <Kira0802> no
[18:36] <Kira0802> The "other FB page" isn't something good
[18:37] <Rock96> We need to hide Mayo.Chan from good people
[18:37] <Rock96> *Innocent
[18:37] <+Lord-Simon> But it has some nice minimalistic designs
[18:37] <+Lord-Simon> Typo3... I don'T want to talk about it. It's a "bit" to big for a blogging platform
[18:38] <Misogi> Hah... almost the end.
[18:39] <+Lord-Simon> Joomla, well didn't spend much time with it. Seems nice, but need a bit more research.
[18:39] <+Lord-Simon> So I can't say much about it
[18:39] <+Lord-Simon> .
[18:40] <cloudii> by "other facebook page", I meant the official BT page (not the group)
[18:40] <cloudii> (and certainly not mchan)
[18:40] <+Lord-Simon> *hush*
[18:41] <+Lord-Simon> don't mention it
[18:41] <cloudii> Oh right, this is being recorded………….
[18:41] <Rock96> There is one...?
[18:41] <cloudii> https://www.facebook.com/Baka.Tsuki.org
[18:41] <+Lord-Simon> So, WP seems as a good choice
[18:42] <+Lord-Simon> and most people who had something to do with blogs, used WP at least once
[18:42] <+Lord-Simon> probably
[18:42] <+Lord-Simon> The user management is easy
[18:42] <+Lord-Simon> and the framework is robust
[18:42] <krytyk> grahhhhhh
[18:42] <krytyk> geek talk
[18:42] <+Lord-Simon> As to the design
[18:43] <thelastguardian> back
[18:43] <Rock96> @cloudii, hm, I'm in that one...
[18:43] <thelastguardian> looking good
[18:43] <thelastguardian> i have nothing against WP btw....
[18:43] <Misogi> WP isn't a bad choice.
[18:44] <+Lord-Simon> And WP has some nice Nginx configurations
[18:44] <+Lord-Simon> btw
[18:44] <Kira0802> hm?
[18:44] <+Lord-Simon> Layout and format...
[18:44] <+Lord-Simon> Do I treat them the same ?
[18:44] <+Lord-Simon> Because I'm confused by the format.
[18:45] <+Lord-Simon> Either way, I don't see a real need to change the layout of the blog
[18:46] <Kira0802> why did we need to change it to begin with?
[18:47] <+Lord-Simon> It is quiet minimalistic and most people who visit it are familiar with it
[18:47] <cloudii> TLG mentioned briefly he wasn't perfectly satisfied with wp
[18:47] <cloudii> But it seems like TLG isn't that against it
[18:47] <+Lord-Simon> Kira, it's about giving the Admin right to someone
[18:47] <Kira0802> no one posts in the blog anyway :/
[18:47] <thelastguardian> i am not stisified with how 'our' WP looks currently
[18:47] <+Lord-Simon> really ?
[18:48] <cloudii> Oh, then just install a template
[18:48] <cloudii> that's pretty easy....
[18:48] <thelastguardian> not WP in general (well, except for all the exploited WP sites online, anyway)
[18:48] <+Lord-Simon> you can't do a thing against that
[18:48] <+Lord-Simon> except you upgrade the site constantly and on time
[18:48] <Misogi> WP should be upgraded.
[18:48] <thelastguardian> WP is not very secure, that's all :)
[18:48] <+Lord-Simon> and/or have some magical configuration that will stop the attack
[18:49] <Misogi> And Jetpack should be put, too.
[18:49] <+Lord-Simon> really ?
[18:49] <+Lord-Simon> nah
[18:49] <+Lord-Simon> you can just add GAnalytics
[18:49] <+Lord-Simon> and it's done
[18:49] <+Lord-Simon> Well, if there was a secure CMS
[18:50] <+Lord-Simon> we wouldn't talk about WP
[18:50] <+Lord-Simon> and other CMS
[18:51] <Kira0802> can we just take a template on the net?
[18:51] <Kira0802> http://themesguru.net/wordpress-themes/anime-press.html
[18:51] <Kira0802> or something?
[18:51] <Kira0802> something similar*
[18:51] <cloudii> themes aren't that hard to find
[18:52] <thelastguardian> anything is fine, really
[18:52] <thelastguardian> you might want to consult with oni though :)
[18:52] <thelastguardian> i don't know what he might has in mind
[18:52] <cloudii> Oni says he can't remember the blog password, iirc
[18:52] <+Lord-Simon> I'd really put something minimalistic
[18:52] <+Lord-Simon> no fancy stuff
[18:52] <Misogi> ... May we move on to forum matters?
[18:52] <+Lord-Simon> text and a few images in posts
[18:52] * Misogi see that there's only 3 things left.
[18:53] <+Lord-Simon> Well, I know what should be posted
[18:53] * Misogi was wrong. Four, but two are quite long.
[18:54] <cloudii> Can't we just make this easy and promote another Forum Admin?
[18:54] <+Lord-Simon> and if the users do not behave, use force and dictatorship
[18:54] <cloudii> or is that a no-no?
[18:54] <+Lord-Simon> What about the forum ?
[18:54] <thelastguardian> okay, we will leave the blog issue for another day. Lord-Simon, if no one else wants the job, you get it (and if someone does, well, collaborate)
[18:54] <+Lord-Simon> sure
[18:54] <+Lord-Simon> All I have to do is that it stays on topic and they behave
[18:54] <Misogi> I'll note that.
[18:55] <thelastguardian> as for the forum......
[18:55] <+Lord-Simon> Forum
[18:55] <thelastguardian> froum groups?
[18:55] <+Lord-Simon> yes
[18:55] <thelastguardian> forum*
[18:55] <Misogi> There are two easy things before.
[18:55] <cloudii> user privileges for one
[18:55] <Misogi> Disapproval Bug and PMs.
[18:55] <thelastguardian> i feel like i might not be the best person to lead the change
[18:55] <thelastguardian> because i am not familiar how the current system works
[18:56] <cloudii> It's mostly just an inbalance of power
[18:56] <cloudii> most of the individuals that have rights are not particularly active
[18:56] <+Lord-Simon> TLG, on a side note: "Redirect Login and Registration pages to a encrypted (TLS) version. "
[18:57] <cloudii> iirc, only you (TLG), Oni, bicube, and Vaelis are global mods
[18:57] <cloudii> so basically, you four plus Teh Ping and rrapo (for some weird reason) are the only individuals able to ban/unban
[18:57] <+Lord-Simon> Here is also a nice theme that is minimal: http://dimsemenov.com/themes/touchfolio/demo/blog/
[18:58] <stellarroze> hmm mmm mmm
[18:58] <thelastguardian> Lord-Simon: I've changed the redirect setting associated with cookies; I am not sure if it would break anything though
[18:58] <+Lord-Simon> Well
[18:58] <thelastguardian> let me take a look at the forum user rights page first
[18:59] <+Lord-Simon> there are encrypted normal cookies
[18:59] <cloudii> It's a slight issue because there's a number of forum banned users waiting to be unbanned http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=7251&start=30
[18:59] <cloudii> and there's no one who can do it........
[19:00] <+Lord-Simon> still doesn't enforce the redirect
[19:00] == ProBlackbird [~ProBlackb@AB177B2B.E1386DB6.26A16AAF.IP] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
[19:00] <thelastguardian> logout/login
[19:00] <+Lord-Simon> wiki
[19:00] <+Lord-Simon> or forum ?
[19:01] <thelastguardian> clear the forum cookie
[19:03] <+Lord-Simon> done
[19:04] <+Lord-Simon> https://www.baka-tsuki.org:80/forums/index.php?sid=****
[19:05] <milki> zomg
[19:05] <milki> wiki says thelastguardian is the founder
[19:06] * Misogi has cold fingers.
[19:06] <+Lord-Simon> hm...
[19:06] <+Lord-Simon> doesn't work that well
[19:06] <+Lord-Simon> What I was saying is to use nginx to force it
[19:10] <+Lord-Simon> Hahahahaha
[19:11] <+Lord-Simon> Now I see
[19:11] <+Lord-Simon> non-encrypted connection uses sid
[19:12] <+Lord-Simon> and encrypted ones use cookies
[19:13] <Kira0802> ???
[19:14] <thelastguardian> yeah
[19:14] <thelastguardian> i wish i have a test server :)
[19:15] == Valdars [~valdar@Rizon-B1271E91.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[19:15] <+Lord-Simon> Hmmm....
[19:15] <cloudii> lol Simon
[19:15] <+Lord-Simon> Should I set up one ?
[19:16] <thelastguardian> nah
[19:17] <+Lord-Simon> it's like
[19:17] <thelastguardian> everything should be fix now
[19:17] <+Lord-Simon> 5 min ?
[19:17] <+Lord-Simon> ah
[19:17] <+Lord-Simon> damn
[19:17] <+Lord-Simon> dorgot the ssl
[19:17] <+Lord-Simon> and stuff
[19:17] <+Lord-Simon> *sigh*
[19:17] <cloudii> thelastguardian, what exactly did you change?
[19:18] <cloudii> (asking for Misogi's sake xD)
[19:19] <thelastguardian> iirc, i put in a hack to the code to work around a phpbb cookie bug a long time ago
[19:19] <thelastguardian> i just removed it
[19:19] <+Lord-Simon> well
[19:22] <+Lord-Simon> That can wait for a longer time
[19:23] <+Lord-Simon> encryption rises the load of the server
[19:23] <+Lord-Simon> so...
[19:23] <+Lord-Simon> Ah
[19:23] <+Lord-Simon> what I wanted to ask
[19:23] <+Lord-Simon> as I don't really get to notice it in time
[19:23] <+Lord-Simon> how often is the b-t site not reachable ?
[19:23] <cloudii> A couple times every month
[19:24] <cloudii> You can tell by the inflow of messages on the Official Facebook page xD
[19:24] <Kira0802> for me it's about once every month
[19:24] <thelastguardian> our current hoster is as reliable as the last 1
[19:25] <+Lord-Simon> ...
[19:25] <thelastguardian> so expect slightly more downtime than last year
[19:25] <thelastguardian> *shrug*
[19:25] <thelastguardian> i didn't know until i switched
[19:25] == Rock96 [cgiirc@B9361843.C5E4665F.13B9A932.IP] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
[19:25] <+Lord-Simon> downtime, as in connection problems with the server ?
[19:25] <thelastguardian> it has pretty good reputation on webhostingtalk though
[19:25] <thelastguardian> so i am not too worry
[19:25] <thelastguardian> connection issues, yes
[19:26] <+Lord-Simon> do you at least keep backups of the DB ?
[19:26] <thelastguardian> of course :)
[19:26] <+Lord-Simon> daily backup ?
[19:26] <thelastguardian> weekly
[19:26] <thelastguardian> daily would blow my data cap
[19:27] * Lord-Simon is sceptical
[19:27] <+Lord-Simon> let's see...
[19:27] <+Lord-Simon> the DB of the wiki should be aroun
[19:27] <+Lord-Simon> 400-500 MB
[19:27] <thelastguardian> nah
[19:27] <thelastguardian> off by 2 magnitude
[19:28] <+Lord-Simon> ?
[19:28] <+Lord-Simon> How much exactly ?
[19:28] <+Lord-Simon> or around ?
[19:29] <thelastguardian> from the most recent backup (gzip):
[19:29] <+Lord-Simon> btw
[19:29] <thelastguardian> db @ 23GB
[19:29] <+Lord-Simon> 23GB
[19:29] <+Lord-Simon> hmm...
[19:29] <thelastguardian> web @ 16GB
[19:29] <+Lord-Simon> not bad
[19:29] * Misogi is back.
[19:30] <+Lord-Simon> what is your data cap ?
[19:30] <+Lord-Simon> 2-3 TB ?
[19:30] <thelastguardian> 4 or 5 TB
[19:30] <thelastguardian> but we are using 3TB/month already
[19:31] <+Lord-Simon> somehow small
[19:31] <+Lord-Simon> I have a 10TB cap
[19:31] <thelastguardian> the cap, or the usage
[19:31] <thelastguardian> that's because I focused on getting better hardware
[19:31] <+Lord-Simon> yeah
[19:31] <+Lord-Simon> but stull
[19:31] <+Lord-Simon> *still
[19:31] <+Lord-Simon> I'm by Hetzner
[19:31] <+Lord-Simon> and regardless of the hardware
[19:32] <thelastguardian> Europe's server pricing is usually better than the states'
[19:32] <+Lord-Simon> as long as you get a dedicated machine, you have 10TB Cap and 1Gbit up/down link
[19:32] <+Lord-Simon> yeah
[19:32] <+Lord-Simon> but I think hetzner do offer servers in the states too
[19:34] <Misogi> I'll have to go in 30 minutes, should we finish solving some remaining matters?
[19:34] <thelastguardian> anyway, another reason why i don't do daily backup is because i don't trust mysql incremental backup
[19:34] <+Lord-Simon> Well, if there is a need. There are a few people on the forums that have their own servers
[19:34] <+Lord-Simon> if there is a need to relocate some data heavy things
[19:34] <+Lord-Simon> just drop by
[19:34] <thelastguardian> nah, it's okay
[19:34] <thelastguardian> thanks for the offer though
[19:35] <+Lord-Simon> The one thing I have to say
[19:35] <+Lord-Simon> it's always bad to have the static storage and the website on one server
[19:35] <+Lord-Simon> static = images and stugg
[19:35] <+Lord-Simon> *ff
[19:35] <+Lord-Simon> brb
[19:35] <+Lord-Simon> 15 min
[19:35] <thelastguardian> misogi, let me do some research on the forum permission first
[19:36] <Misogi> Understood.
[19:36] <thelastguardian> i will keep my irc client on
[19:36] <+Lord-Simon> After that there is the sidebar
[19:36] <+Lord-Simon> the excessively long justification
[19:36] <Misogi> Disapproval Bug, PMs, Sub-Forums and Groups.
[19:37] <+Lord-Simon> thelastguardian, I'll send you the complete log tomorrow. I'm probably sure that this will end in a few hours
[19:37] <Misogi> I'll postpone the two latters.
[19:37] <Misogi> The first two are way quicker to solve.
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[19:37] <thelastguardian> the disapproval bug happens to a lot of phpbb installation
[19:37] == Rock96 [cgiirc@B9361843.C5E4665F.13B9A932.IP] has quit []
[19:38] <thelastguardian> no 1 knows how to fix it. I will take a look at the code later.
[19:38] <Misogi> You have been tested positive as a 100% whole-grain-fed-free-roaming organic Baka or have been diagnosed as a confirmed 100% off-the-charts lunatic.  We are only certified to handle 50% Stupidity and 50% Lunacy, therefore it is with sad regret that you will be placed upon the waiting list to be euthanized.  Fortunately, repeated reports of your condition will
[19:38] <Misogi> This is the cause.
[19:38] <thelastguardian> Hmmmm
[19:38] <Misogi> Remove 4 of the 5 sentences.
[19:38] <Misogi> The bug happened a while after that was added.
[01:40] -!- krytyk [~whocares@White.And.Red] has quit [Quit: Despair... puny humans...]
[01:44] < Misogi> Need to go.
[01:44] -!- Misogi [cgiirc@Rizon-1081BFEA.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
[01:47] -!- SkyZenith [qwebirc@Rizon-C36F73D.blktn5.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #Baka-Tsuki
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[01:57] <+Lord-Simon> back
[01:57] <+Lord-Simon> So
[01:57] <+Lord-Simon> is this the end ?
[02:01] <+Lord-Simon> btw. TLG
[02:01] <+Lord-Simon> Don't forget to note down the expiration date of the SSL/TLS certificate
[02:06] < thelastguardian> I know
[02:06] < thelastguardian> seems like like, I guess
[02:09] < stellarroze> wow
[02:09] < stellarroze> it's been 12 hours
[02:09]  * stellarroze hugs thelastguardian
[02:09]  * stellarroze hugs Lord-Simon
[02:09]  * Lord-Simon hugs stellarroze
[02:09] < stellarroze> i'd give you guys a drink but i don't drink alcohol XD
[02:09] <+Lord-Simon> welcome back
[02:11] <+Lord-Simon> So this is it.
[02:12] <+Lord-Simon> I'll download the copy of the log
[02:12] <+Lord-Simon> from the last 24 hours
[02:12] <+Lord-Simon> and send it to TLG
</nowiki>
</pre>
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