Ogura Hyakunin Isshu
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- shichinanatsu
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Ogura Hyakunin Isshu
i've been wondering why the translators and editors didn't include those lines, so before i went ahead and posted these on the wiki, i bothered putting them here first.. any thoughts?
Spoiler! :
雨 (ame) trilogy
[070428] アメサラサ (amesarasa)
[090925] 夏ノ雨 (natsu no ame)
[120831] イモウトノカタチ (imouto no katachi)
[070428] アメサラサ (amesarasa)
[090925] 夏ノ雨 (natsu no ame)
[120831] イモウトノカタチ (imouto no katachi)
- onizuka-gto
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Re: Ogura Hyakunin Isshu
I think it;s because the translator figured it was not in any way driven part of the plot so did not spare the effort to translate them.
if you have the Japanese original, please put them in, better to have them in then not.
if you have the Japanese original, please put them in, better to have them in then not.
"Please note, we have added a consequence for failure.Any contact with the chamber floor will result in an unsatisfactory mark on your official test record, followed by death. Good luck."
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- shichinanatsu
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Re: Ogura Hyakunin Isshu
suddenly, i can't access the links I just posted.. still, i was able a fraction of what i intended to post, from some other website, here it is..
Spoiler! :
雨 (ame) trilogy
[070428] アメサラサ (amesarasa)
[090925] 夏ノ雨 (natsu no ame)
[120831] イモウトノカタチ (imouto no katachi)
[070428] アメサラサ (amesarasa)
[090925] 夏ノ雨 (natsu no ame)
[120831] イモウトノカタチ (imouto no katachi)
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- Astral Realm
Re: Ogura Hyakunin Isshu
because that portion of the project is translated by a particular fish who somehow found the lines either translated or original (didnt check) online and just hyperlinked them.
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- Astral Realm
Re: Ogura Hyakunin Isshu
So did Haruhi and Tsuruya quote two lines out of each of the Ogura peoms, or were they formatted on just two lines, or what? Because I would love to put the public-domain lines or lines I jiggle around myself in at the very least. It doesn't seem like there has been any significant change to the ninth book in a very long time, and it is a wonderful story, but it is not edited to the standards of the rest of Baka-Tsuki's Haruhi translations yet.
- Darklor
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Re: Ogura Hyakunin Isshu
There was talk about those poems and poem lines but maybe no one was confident enough (if they are right how they are) to put them into the text itself...
Please don't mind my bad english since I'm german.
Darklor
Out of the dark, into the dark.
Darklor
Out of the dark, into the dark.
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- Astral Realm
Re: Ogura Hyakunin Isshu
I would. I totally would. I've read the ones the translators' notes pointed to, and it seems like they have a bearing on the plot. One they quoted is titled "Lady Suo," several seem to be authored by Fujiwaras, and of course they're seasonal with all the symbolism that carries with it. I would just like to know what the original script was. If someone has the raws I have the working knowledge of Japanese script to get at least the gist of it across.
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- Astral Realm
Re: Ogura Hyakunin Isshu
Still no activation email. Okay, I used the triple threat of Wiktionary, Google Translate, and Japanese Wikipedia to retranslate the first poem, Ogura 61. I should be able to get at the rest soon, but I'm not sure about the last poem that Nagato finishes. It's by Minamoto Toshiyori who wrote Ogura 74 but it's from a different anthology called 百人秀歌, literally collection of a hundred poems by a hundred authors:elegant:hymn. 歌 actually stands for song/chant/praise but I think hymn would fit. Anyway, One Hundred Graceful Hymns does not seem to have an English translation, and if it does it's far removed from the kanji.
Not that obscure Japanese poetry has any direct relationship to the plot, but for the sake of completeness. And I'm having fun.
Ogura Hyakunin Isshu is a telephone directory of the Japanese poets everyone should know about. There are a hundred poems, each by a different author, with each author's name as the title of the poem. They don't seem to be the absolute best, just a broad selection.
Not that obscure Japanese poetry has any direct relationship to the plot, but for the sake of completeness. And I'm having fun.
Ogura Hyakunin Isshu is a telephone directory of the Japanese poets everyone should know about. There are a hundred poems, each by a different author, with each author's name as the title of the poem. They don't seem to be the absolute best, just a broad selection.
- shichinanatsu
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Re: Ogura Hyakunin Isshu
for the sake of having it here.. i'll be leaving the contents of the links here as well, after which i'll see if i can find literary analyses on them..
#33
#35
#66
#67
#07
#94
#33
Spoiler! :
Spoiler! :
Spoiler! :
Spoiler! :
Spoiler! :
Spoiler! :
雨 (ame) trilogy
[070428] アメサラサ (amesarasa)
[090925] 夏ノ雨 (natsu no ame)
[120831] イモウトノカタチ (imouto no katachi)
[070428] アメサラサ (amesarasa)
[090925] 夏ノ雨 (natsu no ame)
[120831] イモウトノカタチ (imouto no katachi)
-
- Astral Realm
Re: Ogura Hyakunin Isshu
久方 is a compound read as "hisakata." Online dictionaries define it as "sky, moon."
光 means "light." Also "only." Not sure what "nododeki" is.
春 is "spring" with a secondary meaning of "wanton." 日 is "day" or "sun."
しづ is "shizu." I can't find what that means. 心 means "heart," "soul," or "center." In this context it is pronounced "gokoro," making it a suffix. なく or "naku" means "cry" or "call."心
花 means "flower" or "blossom" or "the best days of your life." Read as "hana." ちるらむ looks like "fall," "scatter," "die nobly," "fade" with some archaic grammer after it. む was read as "n" in this case.
しづ心 probably means "empty heart" to "absent-minded." Assuming 久方 is to mean "sky," and MacCauley was reasonably accurate,
I'll just leave it at that till I can find a translator.
光 means "light." Also "only." Not sure what "nododeki" is.
春 is "spring" with a secondary meaning of "wanton." 日 is "day" or "sun."
しづ is "shizu." I can't find what that means. 心 means "heart," "soul," or "center." In this context it is pronounced "gokoro," making it a suffix. なく or "naku" means "cry" or "call."心
花 means "flower" or "blossom" or "the best days of your life." Read as "hana." ちるらむ looks like "fall," "scatter," "die nobly," "fade" with some archaic grammer after it. む was read as "n" in this case.
しづ心 probably means "empty heart" to "absent-minded." Assuming 久方 is to mean "sky," and MacCauley was reasonably accurate,
I'll just leave it at that till I can find a translator.
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- Astral Realm
Re: Ogura Hyakunin Isshu
Ki no Tsuruyaki. (o.35)
Human:denotes subject:[prodigy or "to detail?" Could even mean "little."]
Heart/mind:also/too:unaffected by
hometown:denotes subject
flower/blossom/best days:light emphasis, end of sentence:the past:denotes possessive
fragrant/incense:denotes proximity:sweet smell:to kick?
Kick? That's the only thing I'm coming up with for keru. Maybe it's an idiom. I don't know. There is a wealth of meaning lost using this method, though I don't imagine MacCauley kept much anyway.
These people are small
In their hearts, but
Where I am from
The flowers blossomed
To scatter their sweet incense over me
Alternately, the first stanza is:
We so often change
Our hearts grow distant
I remember
When...
Or:
Humans are complicated
Their hearts are unreachable
But where I am from
I think I'll sleep on how to put that. Ideally I would ask a native Japanese speaker how she feels when reading this poem, and take it from there. I guess ideally we would all know Japanese or Tanigawa would write in English, still, anyway,
Tell me what you think. Which stanza should go first, or did I miss the point with all three?
Human:denotes subject:[prodigy or "to detail?" Could even mean "little."]
Heart/mind:also/too:unaffected by
hometown:denotes subject
flower/blossom/best days:light emphasis, end of sentence:the past:denotes possessive
fragrant/incense:denotes proximity:sweet smell:to kick?
Kick? That's the only thing I'm coming up with for keru. Maybe it's an idiom. I don't know. There is a wealth of meaning lost using this method, though I don't imagine MacCauley kept much anyway.
These people are small
In their hearts, but
Where I am from
The flowers blossomed
To scatter their sweet incense over me
Alternately, the first stanza is:
We so often change
Our hearts grow distant
I remember
When...
Or:
Humans are complicated
Their hearts are unreachable
But where I am from
I think I'll sleep on how to put that. Ideally I would ask a native Japanese speaker how she feels when reading this poem, and take it from there. I guess ideally we would all know Japanese or Tanigawa would write in English, still, anyway,
Tell me what you think. Which stanza should go first, or did I miss the point with all three?
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- Astral Realm
Re: Ogura Hyakunin Isshu
Abbot Gyoson (o.66)
together with a sense of completion:denotes proximity
sadness/pity:and:thought/maybe seems?/sense of being heavy
mountain:cherry
blossom/best days:from/than/except/more:foreign/outside:denotes proximity
comprehend:human:also:without
Of course, by なし "nashi" Abbot Gyoson might mean "pear." It would break the mood though I thought.
So this one's a bit easier, let's try to comprehend and translate a culture we know very little about, shall we?
You and me
Sad thoughts and mountain peaks
A monk and a cherry tree
We share this separation
Absent from the thoughts of our countrymen
Could be better. Again, not posting this until I get a second opinion.
Each others' only friends
Here far from human thoughts
We stand alone together
I could really go for a pear right now
Something of that nature.
together with a sense of completion:denotes proximity
sadness/pity:and:thought/maybe seems?/sense of being heavy
mountain:cherry
blossom/best days:from/than/except/more:foreign/outside:denotes proximity
comprehend:human:also:without
Of course, by なし "nashi" Abbot Gyoson might mean "pear." It would break the mood though I thought.
So this one's a bit easier, let's try to comprehend and translate a culture we know very little about, shall we?
You and me
Sad thoughts and mountain peaks
A monk and a cherry tree
We share this separation
Absent from the thoughts of our countrymen
Could be better. Again, not posting this until I get a second opinion.
Each others' only friends
Here far from human thoughts
We stand alone together
I could really go for a pear right now
Something of that nature.
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- Astral Realm
Re: Ogura Hyakunin Isshu
Lady Suo (o.67)
I think I like the translation of this one.
spring/wanton:possessive:night:possessive
dream poss. wishful:just about/just barely/only:becomes/succeeds/acts a role
handpillow[it's said together]:denotes proximity
And here it gets difficult.
kainaku tatan
Jisho can't find kainaku. Google translated 立たむ or tatan (because it's a thousand years ago and む mu is pronounced n sometimes) as stand, and grabbed the ka at the beginning of the line to make it say "stand or fall," which is profound for a program.
na koso oshi kere=reputation:surely:regret:can't find it it probably implies wanting something
It's not MacCauley, it's someone else, someone else did o.66 too, and MacCauley's translation is really bad. Whoever it is isn't sourced, so we can use it until someone complains, change it if that happens. It's not like we're printing these. At least I'm not.
Nighttime in spring
Gentle dreams with his hand
As my pillow
It starts here, I must choose
Reputation or regret?
I guess that turned out alright. First stanza could really be worded better, second I had to guess on and probably bears no relation to the original. And it's a lot less sweet and innocent than the University of Virginia's translation.
So far as foreshadowing, this might tell us about Suou Kuyou. All of the IDSE's interfaces seem to have developed personalities, maybe this represents Suou's inner longing for companionship. Maybe the Sky Canopy Domain used this poem as a seed for Suou's brain patterns. Maybe - this one's my favorite - the SCD overheard Haruhi and Tsuruya quoting this poem and used it to name their interface. And they made a girl they hoped would be perfect for sleeping on Kyon's arm on a spring night.
I think I like the translation of this one.
spring/wanton:possessive:night:possessive
dream poss. wishful:just about/just barely/only:becomes/succeeds/acts a role
handpillow[it's said together]:denotes proximity
And here it gets difficult.
kainaku tatan
Jisho can't find kainaku. Google translated 立たむ or tatan (because it's a thousand years ago and む mu is pronounced n sometimes) as stand, and grabbed the ka at the beginning of the line to make it say "stand or fall," which is profound for a program.
na koso oshi kere=reputation:surely:regret:can't find it it probably implies wanting something
It's not MacCauley, it's someone else, someone else did o.66 too, and MacCauley's translation is really bad. Whoever it is isn't sourced, so we can use it until someone complains, change it if that happens. It's not like we're printing these. At least I'm not.
Nighttime in spring
Gentle dreams with his hand
As my pillow
It starts here, I must choose
Reputation or regret?
I guess that turned out alright. First stanza could really be worded better, second I had to guess on and probably bears no relation to the original. And it's a lot less sweet and innocent than the University of Virginia's translation.
So far as foreshadowing, this might tell us about Suou Kuyou. All of the IDSE's interfaces seem to have developed personalities, maybe this represents Suou's inner longing for companionship. Maybe the Sky Canopy Domain used this poem as a seed for Suou's brain patterns. Maybe - this one's my favorite - the SCD overheard Haruhi and Tsuruya quoting this poem and used it to name their interface. And they made a girl they hoped would be perfect for sleeping on Kyon's arm on a spring night.
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- Astral Realm
Re: Ogura Hyakunin Isshu
Abe no Nakamaro (o.7)
shichinanatsu already quoted an analysis, here's my less-expert transliteration.
the heavens:possessive:plains (feeling of origins)
[I think it implies a great distance]:looking at it | note: Google translated this as "it is only pretending"
Kasuga [proper noun, the kanji mean spring:sun]:in/becomes
Mikasa [spelled mi-straw hat]:possessive:mountain:denotes proximity
[I will go with "appeared," its root is "to go out," may sound similar to "excuse" (noun)]:moon:[I will use "adds emphasis," the modern use of the term would be "possibly"]
Heaven's field
So distant from my eyes
Like Kasuga.
To be near Mount Mikasa!
Where this same moon shines!
Best I could come up with for the second stanza.
shichinanatsu already quoted an analysis, here's my less-expert transliteration.
the heavens:possessive:plains (feeling of origins)
[I think it implies a great distance]:looking at it | note: Google translated this as "it is only pretending"
Kasuga [proper noun, the kanji mean spring:sun]:in/becomes
Mikasa [spelled mi-straw hat]:possessive:mountain:denotes proximity
[I will go with "appeared," its root is "to go out," may sound similar to "excuse" (noun)]:moon:[I will use "adds emphasis," the modern use of the term would be "possibly"]
Heaven's field
So distant from my eyes
Like Kasuga.
To be near Mount Mikasa!
Where this same moon shines!
Best I could come up with for the second stanza.
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- Astral Realm
Re: Ogura Hyakunin Isshu
One more. Until we find One Hundred Graceful Hymns. In the morning I'll try to see what to put in the chapter. You can analyze this one yourself
Fujiwara no Masatsune (o.94)
Untamed Miyoshi
Down its slopes autumn blows
Night follows
It is cold in my homeland
This skin won't stop shivering
And that's the suckiest translation I've made in my entire two-day history of translation. Please enjoy. Feel free to post these in the chapters, I just may myself, and now we've made Haruhi 9:1 more enjoyable for everyone.
Fujiwara no Masatsune (o.94)
Untamed Miyoshi
Down its slopes autumn blows
Night follows
It is cold in my homeland
This skin won't stop shivering
And that's the suckiest translation I've made in my entire two-day history of translation. Please enjoy. Feel free to post these in the chapters, I just may myself, and now we've made Haruhi 9:1 more enjoyable for everyone.