Japanese in 18 Months? No way!!!

[Hayate-sama]

HI it has been 9 months since I started studying japanese and I has been watching anime and other related japanese media for 4 years and I need some advice for my study .

The book that is taught at my Japanese center is Shokyu nihongo, I has learned up to lesson 15 (around 300 kanji) but the recent test has been bothering me. My score is 59/100 and technically I pass but I 'm not quite happy with the result. Basically I only score 38/100 for my writing test while I got a perfect score for reading (20/20) and pretty ones for listening (17/20) and speaking (46/60). The writing test are mostly fill in the blank type of questions.

I study Japanese in order to read more manga and watch more anime but I also want to be able to write in japanese and took the JLPT. I think I should do the homework more regularly (I rarely do the homework that I should do) but those are very repeatable and I usually instead of doing those, watch raw anime and find some raw manga to read. I can understand anime like mayo chiki and manga like kimi no iru machi without translation.Kanji are fine, I can read them but some time unable to write them. It is like I know what写真 is but I cannot write Picture in japanese.

I want to improve my skill and score more on the test, so you guys have any advice ? the teacher say that we should be able test take the N3 test if we study up to lesson 45 so it is like 18 month more.

[Doraneko]

You have already identified your own problems. The solutions to those problems are also quite obvious, so I don't really know if there is any constructive suggestion I can provide...

The good news is that JLPT does not care about writing. You have a fair chance of passing it considering your relative strength in reading and listening.

The bad news is that JLPT is not everything. If you want to use Japanese as an effective communication tool, you have to go through the boring stage of grammar/vocabulary/writing drills. There are people who can achieve fluency by skipping this stage. But they are either in a total immersion environment (i.e. staying for an extended period in Japan AND with no one speaking to them in any language other than Japanese), or they are geniuses.

Normal folks like us have to go by the ordinary and dry way. Watching anime and reading manga are helpful, but only as a supplement to your study. Textbook drills are compiled in such a way that you can sail through the beginner stage with minimal required time. If you only bury your head in anime/manga, it will take you much longer to infer and master all the grammar rules by yourself and you will never be anywhere communicable in writing, due to lack of practice.

Giving yourself an achievable goal with a tight deadline is a good way to push you forward in full speed. When I started studying Japanese, people talked about taking JLPT4 after one year of study, JLPT3 after two years, and are generally very relaxed in the class (who will care about stuff one year after anyway ). But I applied for the upcoming JLPT4 right after I enrolled in my first Japanese class, studied rigorously and got through it in a couple of months, simply because I didn't want to waste the exam fee. I passed JLPT2 one year later and JLPT1 in the subsequent year. By the time when my former classmates were bombarding me with simple JLPT3 questions, I was already working in Tokyo. If you are happy with staying in the comfort zone like everyone else, you are wasting your full potential.

If you really hate drills, you may try lang-8.com. Write at least one piece of writeup (anime reviews, diary entries, etc) everyday and let others correct it for you. Again lang-8 is the most effective as a supplement to study, so without a solid foundation it will still take a long time before you can become anywhere good. But at least it is better than how you are completely skipping your homework right now. The bottom line, you will have a chance to write something regularly, receive feedbacks and gradually improve yourself.

[Hayate-sama]

thanks for your advice I has just registered an account on lang-8 and I already got a comment and correct from people there .

Though I think that doing those homework only let me pass the test and it doesn't help a little bit when writing an essay. As I said, those are mostly are fill in the blank type of questions and they are very repeatable. Experience tell me that if I do the final review sheet, passing with a mark greater than 70 is not a problem . I prefer a more interactive approach so I more interested in reading, listening and speaking. When I do the listening and reading test - rather just read and search for the answer, I rather consider the tests and the exercises as a mean to accumulated knowledge then try to understand the text rather than just read it so that when I do the questions, I don't have to search again because I understand all of them .

Also about the goal, I think that is impossible at the moment as I 'm doing a degree right now and I will start working soon. My major as an auditor/accountant don't really give me much time to cramp and study. Furthermore, I study by listening and accumulating experience in the lecture/class, self study don't have a positive affect on me .

But thank you very much for sharing your experience .

[Doraneko]

Also about the goal, I think that is impossible at the moment as I 'm doing a degree right now and I will start working soon. My major as an auditor/accountant don't really give me much time to cramp and study. Furthermore, I study by listening and accumulating experience in the lecture/class, self study don't have a positive affect on me .

But thank you very much for sharing your experience .

What a coincidence. I started my Japanese study and my accounting degree at the same time. Great to meet another future bean counter in the forums.

Achievable goals differ person by person. As long as you have some sort of reasonable target (however small it is) and enough motivation to reach that, it should be okay.

As for the usefulness of drills, IMO unless you have a personal tutor who corrects you every second such that you can unconsciously absorb grammar rules like an infant, it is hard to gain a solid foundation to write in good Japanese by extensive reading alone. For example, just a confusion between は and が, which starters tend to gloss over, can already trash an otherwise good essay. But when you realize that even Japanese linguists have to write academic papers on this supposedly simple difference, you can tell accurately inferring grammar rules through extensive reading by yourself is no easy task.

It is also useful to note that in general Japanese are much more unforgiving towards bad writers than bad speakers. Even in informal chat threads you can frequently see Japanese natives dissing each other with "日本語でおｋ". On the other hand it is rare to see native English speakers teasing each other online for writing poor English.

But yea everything is no more than a means to an end. As long as you can reach the end, no one would care about how you achieve it. I have an acquaintance who reached JLPT1 by playing eroge alone without reading one single Japanese textbook or doing one single grammar exercise.

[Hayate-sama]

Great to meet another future bean counter in the forums.

a great way to put what we currently studying great yet depressing . I heard the intern students have to do... well bean counting when they doing their internship.

I think my future will be similar to Kira0802 or 0208 , reading / speaking / listening ok, writing : elementary student could write a better essay than me

[Poke2201]

I need to start memorizing kanji again. Im only 15 away from learning all 2042 before I had to take a break.

[Hayate-sama]

I need to start memorizing kanji again. Im only 15 away from learning all 2042 before I had to take a break.

I still got 1700 more to go

[Poke2201]

Mind you my strength is in the memorization of Kanji, not anything else these days.

[Hayate-sama]

Rather than remember them I prefer to be able to use them when I need.

Back when I studying English, my friends open told me that I should study the vocabulary like them but in the end they usually forget the word as we study a new lesson and topic .

I think the vocabulary and kanji should be hard written in the brain not in the temporary memory

Well since remembering is your strength, I guest thing like that won't happen to you

[YoakeNoHikari]

by playing eroge alone without reading one single Japanese textbook or doing one single grammar exercise.

That is the plan.

[Doraneko]

Great to meet another future bean counter in the forums.

a great way to put what we currently studying great yet depressing . I heard the intern students have to do... well bean counting when they doing their internship.

Audit firms here are a nightmare... We have no law regulating working hours so fresh graduates are treated like crap, having to work till midnight everyday and to get across the border for dirty audit jobs 2 weeks per month (mine jobs are particularly notorious and there are young auditors that get killed every year, thanks to the non-existent safety regulations across the border)

Despite all of this, all the money goes to the partners' pockets. We get shitty wages (income per hour lower than McD thanks to the long working hours) and can't even claim overtime payment or business trip allowance.

Nonetheless every accounting graduate need to stick with them for three years as a "trainee" in order to be qualified as a CPA. What a elaborated plan for exploiting young people with little bargaining power. The partners assert their authority to self-regulate (read: exploit) so even the government can't intervene.

I put up with that for a few months and ended up shifting to an alternate industry. Work is still tough, but at least I am now being treated as a person instead of a cost or an expendable.

by playing eroge alone without reading one single Japanese textbook or doing one single grammar exercise.

That is the plan.

That guy was almost a hikkikomori btw, spending 10 hours a day on eroge, 4 hours on trolling others on 2ch/nico and all the remaining hours on sleeping. Unintentionally he had created and had been staying for a few years in his own bubble of total language immersion, without even the need to use his mothertongue.

[YoakeNoHikari]

Too much human interaction.

[Mystes]

I need to start memorizing kanji again. Im only 15 away from learning all 2042 before I had to take a break.

There are only 2042 kanjis in Japanese?

[Cosmic Eagle]

That guy was almost a hikkikomori btw, spending 10 hours a day on eroge, 4 hours on trolling others on 2ch/nico and all the remaining hours on sleeping. Unintentionally he had created and had been staying for a few years in his own bubble of total language immersion, without even the need to use his mothertongue.

Hey...that sounds somewhat like me.....except that I do go out


Gods my life is so sad....

[Hayate-sama]

I need to start memorizing kanji again. Im only 15 away from learning all 2042 before I had to take a break.

There are only 2042 kanjis in Japanese?

they are the most common use kanji though.

BTW by killing you mean that they got killed off for real 殺すか。　 。God where did you work ?

Hey...that sounds somewhat like me.....except that I do go out

For food ?

Gods my life is so sad....

God is also a hikikomori, if he isn't our life hasn't been this sad