Absolute Duo

[luizhng]

Not sure what he is on about. If he doesnt have the spare time to undertake the magnitude of work he is asking of someone else, frankly he should just be quiet, smile and be happy he gets to read it without the language courses.

Niflheim, I agree with fallton13 that the text is not very well written as it is. The translator may very well has reasons for it but we should not just pass it as if its nothing, we should allways aim for the better. If I had the language courses we would surely not be reading translations, but translations exists because we can't learn all languages.
I am trully thankfull for all the translators in Baka Tsuki, because of them we all have the opportunity to read all this novels but they are not perfect and they make mistakes. I think everyone has the right to point to that mistakes and/or give suggestions so that the work may be better.
I think that kind of attitude "shut up and be gratefull" is not the right one.

[RikiNutcase]

Not sure what he is on about. If he doesnt have the spare time to undertake the magnitude of work he is asking of someone else, frankly he should just be quiet, smile and be happy he gets to read it without the language courses.

Niflheim, I agree with fallton13 that the text is not very well written as it is. The translator may very well has reasons for it but we should not just pass it as if its nothing, we should allways aim for the better. If I had the language courses we would surely not be reading translations, but translations exists because we can't learn all languages.
I am trully thankfull for all the translators in Baka Tsuki, because of them we all have the opportunity to read all this novels but they are not perfect and they make mistakes. I think everyone has the right to point to that mistakes and/or give suggestions so that the work may be better.
I think that kind of attitude "shut up and be gratefull" is not the right one.

so i am guessing you are up for the job as an editor?

[Niflheim]

Niflheim, I agree with fallton13 that the text is not very well written as it is. The translator may very well has reasons for it but we should not just pass it as if its nothing, we should allways aim for the better. If I had the language courses we would surely not be reading translations, but translations exists because we can't learn all languages.
...
I think that kind of attitude "shut up and be gratefull" is not the right one.

It isn't really relevant what state the translation is in, unless you yourself actually have the will and time to help out with what you "demand" of others you should just shut it. What he, and you indirectly, is asking for is that someone else should volunteer and "fix" the translation of an entire volume for his own reading pleasure. You clearly don't like the attitude, but it is by all means the correct one. It is volenteer work this, people that are either busy making a living at a job or undergoing thier own education find enough time during the day to translate entier novel series, while he can't find the time to edit the English translation little at a time. Infact it has been the held attitude for as long as I remember regarding fan work similar to this.

So I'll join Riki and ask, are you up for the job as an editor?

[Enigma]

It isn't really relevant what state the translation is in, unless you yourself actually have the will and time to help out with what you "demand" of others you should just shut it. What he, and you indirectly, is asking for is that someone else should volunteer and "fix" the translation of an entire volume for his own reading pleasure. You clearly don't like the attitude, but it is by all means the correct one.

Alright, now I have to jump in and disagree with pretty much everything you said. You're simply putting your own words in their mouths and being overly defensive; I personally got completely different implications from the both of them.

You can praise someone for volunteer work—hell, you even should, and they both have—but you can not admonish someone for not volunteering themselves. They were both even being extremely friendly and polite about it. All they both did was simply provide criticism—something to be taken in stride—to help encourage the project's growth. To expand on what I mean, how can someone expect the government to help if no one ever notifies them there is a problem to begin with? They just wanted to bring attention to what prevented them from immersing themselves in the novel as well as they could, so that someone capable could take up the mantle where they have not enough time or not enough confidence in the area they noted a problem with.

Is being praised for doing a good deed right? Yes, of course it is. Does being told something you thought was right was actually wrong not feel so great? Of course it does, but that doesn't make it a bad thing to do. That's how people learn: through trial and error, one step at a time. As a translator, have I ever mistranslated something? I'm still pretty inexperienced in the language so you bet I have. I even know right away when it happens. But just because I know it's wrong doesn't mean I know what the correct version would be. Yeah, it would be nice if someone came along and helped me out with what it was, but I'm not going to expect them to. I'd eventually figure it out anyway, I'd just have to keep going until I did, regardless of how far down the road it is. So what it's not as good as it could be right then and there, big deal. I'd just eventually look back on the line and grin knowing what it is.

Personally, I like it when someone tells me I screwed up or provide their own opinions. Then I can fix it. Then I can know for future endeavors. Then I laugh.

[Misogi]

Well, I sort of agree with Enigma, but everyone must remember that nobody is perfect.

For those who can't work as editors, when you say that there's broken English or that it's hard to read the translation, please post even a small list of mistakes that you've found while reading. Even better, edit them if they're typos. Otherwise, someone else can always make the changes for you, as long as you make the job easier.

Still, being overdefensive of translators isn't better, either way. Niflheim, I'm not blaming you, but it's not the first time you did that, and you saw how it ended...

Anyway, I may try to help if no one does anything (even though I'm not a native speaker), but not until I've finished translating and proofreading a lot of stuff.

[tbrakta]

Well uh yeah, really heated discussion. I can feel your passion through my computer screen!! but just dropped by to say THANKS for the translation!!!

I really enjoyed it and I hope the translators will continue this project for us fans (that don't really know Japanese but still love their stories)

[Gulcasa766]

Honestly if you have the time to complain about the translation quality when the text is, in my honest opinion, readable as it is with minor editing, you should have the time to either:

1) Edit the minor mistakes yourself, everyone is allowed to do this and even if the edit isn't the most optimal it can always be re-edited by someone else or even yourself if something better comes up.

2) Throw a list of edits that you think are there and send it to an editor, like myself or anyone you know who could change it. Hell, send me all the edit lists, I'll look through them all and edit it if you show me what you think should be changed. It shows that you are reading and are looking at the text like I do when I read the story.

3) You could even start a discussion about something if it's something bigger then a small edit in the talk section of a chapter. It's there for a reason, may as well use it.

I won't condemn anyone for talking about the translation quality but I won't let people talk about it and do nothing about it, give me work to do and I'll get it done, give me nothing and you'll receive nothing.

[Niflheim]

Enigma, no matter how you dress it up it won't change that he complained about the quality of English and wanted someone else to deal with it.
Misogi, I'm not defending the translator. I'm simply not PC enough for that. All I did was taking a jab at fallton13's attitude.

[Enigma]

Enigma, no matter how you dress it up it won't change that he complained about the quality of English and wanted someone else to deal with it.
Misogi, I'm not defending the translator. I'm simply not PC enough for that. All I did was taking a jab at fallton13's attitude.

God you're single-minded. Calling that a "complaint" is severely stretching it, and he even stated why he couldn't help. The only ones with attitude problems in this thread are you and I. So then, let's get more personal, shall we?

First ask yourself this: Is his remark true? If no, why regard what he said at all? If yes, why do you resent what he said if it is the truth? Certainly it isn't how he said it, as it couldn't have been more polite and friendly. Therefore it must be simply that he spoke of it all. How can that possibly seem right? You didn't want to hear what he had to say so he just shouldn't speak at all?

Then do you resent him because he can't improve the quality of the translation? If no, your words are contradictory. If yes, then why do you yourself not do so? Because you do you find yourself not capable enough? Then why do you not picture those who have not contributed in the same situation? Would you place expectations on others than you yourself cannot fulfill? They have no obligation to do anything and neither do you. Just as you are entitled to an opinion, so are they. What you are saying is 'He doesn't want to help, therefore he is a problem. His opinion isn't entirely positive, therefore it is all negative.' Your argument from my standpoint is nothing more than ad hominem.

And yes, they can jot down mistakes or fix them themselves. That's even ideal and I'm sure they would love to do so. But most people will find stopping, trying to interpret an odd line, and fixing it will remove them from the flow of the novel. If they're anything like me, they'll even forget what was going on ten lines before. When I want to read a light novel in English, I can do so pretty quickly—but if I want to edit it, it takes much, much longer, and I often find myself short on time even when I had plenty to begin with.

God my posts are longer than I want them to be. Probably doesn't help that I like debating.

[RikiNutcase]

Ooookay...........this comment appearing out of nowhere after the previous one is going to be awkward so.......

I am back for Vol 2. Be prepared for constant bad grammar Xd

[Searox]

Ooookay...........this comment appearing out of nowhere after the previous one is going to be awkward so.......

I am back for Vol 2. Be prepared for constant bad grammar Xd

Don't worry Riki, I been reading your translation (Absolute Duo + Date A Live). Fast Scans beats grammar any day. Although I can't seem to not gravitate to those grammar mistakes

[denormative]

Ooookay...........this comment appearing out of nowhere after the previous one is going to be awkward so.......

I am back for Vol 2. Be prepared for constant bad grammar Xd

Your DaL translations have better constructed grammar then the Absolute Duo ones. Personally I just think you're trolling people who want to complain about grammar.

[RikiNutcase]

Ooookay...........this comment appearing out of nowhere after the previous one is going to be awkward so.......

I am back for Vol 2. Be prepared for constant bad grammar Xd

Your DaL translations have better constructed grammar then the Absolute Duo ones. Personally I just think you're trolling people who want to complain about grammar.

Absolute is harder on Translations compared to DAL since the structure is different and complex

[larethian]

Niflheim, I agree with fallton13 that the text is not very well written as it is. The translator may very well has reasons for it but we should not just pass it as if its nothing, we should allways aim for the better. If I had the language courses we would surely not be reading translations, but translations exists because we can't learn all languages.
...
I think that kind of attitude "shut up and be gratefull" is not the right one.

It isn't really relevant what state the translation is in, unless you yourself actually have the will and time to help out with what you "demand" of others you should just shut it. What he, and you indirectly, is asking for is that someone else should volunteer and "fix" the translation of an entire volume for his own reading pleasure. You clearly don't like the attitude, but it is by all means the correct one. It is volenteer work this, people that are either busy making a living at a job or undergoing thier own education find enough time during the day to translate entier novel series, while he can't find the time to edit the English translation little at a time. Infact it has been the held attitude for as long as I remember regarding fan work similar to this.

So I'll join Riki and ask, are you up for the job as an editor?

+10.
Unless one is able to translate better, or unless translator uses machine translator which I highly disapprove, I agree with Nif.
Good translations take 6 things, time, Japanese comprehension proficiency, English writing proficiency, time, experience, and more time.
Sometimes, translators just don't have the time, or wants to get things out faster, trading quality. If you don't agree with this way of doing, it's perfectly fine. But unless you want to fix it, or unless it's hardly comprehensible, it's good to let things slide. Experience is also another important factor regardless of starting proficiencies.
luizhng, if you have never translate anything, you have no idea how much of a time sink this is. This is not manga we are translating.
The only time I can agree is when the translator can't even converse in English properly and tries to translate something to English. If you are a translator who can do better and willing to do it, then feel free to be blunt on criticisms. Otherwise, leechers should just take it OR CONTRIBUTE!!
On another note, you can always don't read it.

That being said, I personally would prefer some quality in my translations, and that's why I decided not to work on Mahouka and Golden Time anymore. Because making them good just takes about 3-5 times more effort and makes it even more of a time-sink. But this is just a personal standard on myself. That said, things can still come out crappy.

[RikiNutcase]

Larethian!! why must you pour lava into a died out fire!!!