Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei: Names & Terminology

[MiY4Gi]

The second paragraph seems contradictory. Am I misunderstanding it?

"The kenjutsu club’s next ace, second year Kirihara Takeaki, whose strength was widely viewed as top class, had been defeated by a freshman Weed.

As stated earlier, this news had greatly startled the ones who believed in the imperfect magic evaluation process, and caused not inconsiderable uproar."

If some magic students believed that the magic evaluation process was imperfect, why would they be greatly startled? I mean, they know that the magic evaluation process is flawed, so why be surprised? It would make more sense if those people believed the magic evaluation was perfect, and were thus naturally startled by the "Academically weak" Tatsuya's accomplishment.

[MiY4Gi]

I noticed in Vol2 Chap 6, that there was one usage of the word Morale, instead of Moral, in "Public Morals Committee", and it got me thinking. See below:

"Even for those who don’t know the specifics, it was easy to guess that the Public Morales committee chief was on Tatsuya’s side, and that both the Student Body president and the club management group leader would come to his defense."

Is the usage of "Moral" instead of "Morale" correct? The two words mean rather different things. There's also the word "Morality, as in Public Morality, which seems to be the most appropriate word to use. However, since I don't know the actual translation from the source, I can't decide. Or is the word "Morals" used since it's the most intuitive? I guess too many people would tilt their head in confusion when they read the word "Morality".

Morale, from Wikipedia,

Morale, also known as esprit de corps when discussing the morale of a group, is a term used to describe the capacity of people to maintain belief in an institution or a goal, or even in oneself and others. The second term applies particularly to military personnel and to members of sports teams, but is also applicable in business and in any other organizational context, particularly in times of stress or controversy. While the term is often used by authority figures as a generic value judgment of the willpower, obedience and self-discipline of a group tasked with performing duties assigned by a superior, more accurately it refers to the level of individual faith in the collective benefit gained by such performance.
According to Alexander H. Leighton, "morale is the capacity of a group of people to pull together persistently and consistently in pursuit of a common purpose"

Morals, from Dictionary.com,

Of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical: moral attitudes

Morality, from Wikipedia,

Morality (from the Latin moralitas "manner, character, proper behavior") is the differentiation of intentions, decisions, and actions between those that are good (or right) and those that are bad (or wrong). A moral code is a system of morality (according to a particular philosophy, religion, culture, etc.) and a moral is any one practice or teaching within a moral code. Morality may also be specifically synonymous with "goodness" or "rightness." Immorality is the active opposition to morality (i.e. opposition to that which is good or right), while amorality is variously defined as an unawareness of, indifference toward, or disbelief in any set of moral standards or principles.[1][2][3][4] An example of a moral code is the Golden Rule which states that, "One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself."[5] A British poll found that the most important moral points among young people were looking after ones family and putting others before yourself.

Comments?

Also, what's the difference between the Public Morals Committee and the Disciplinary Committee?

[larethian]

It's obviously 'morals'. Public Morals Committee and the Disciplinary Committee refer to the same thing. The former is more literal and closer to the original meaning and the later is a little more liberalized but can be appropriate as well. Sometimes, Disciplinary Committee may not be an appropriate liberalization because not all Public Morals and Ethics Committees in all schools in Japan have a huge amount of power implied in the later. In this case however, Disciplinary Committee can work. However, it should be standardized somehow. For this matter, I have no real preference.

[Dreyakis]

I forget where exactly it's found, but I do believe that the text specifically separates Public Moral Committee and the Disciplinary Committee as two separate entities.

If I recall correctly, it should be in the chapter after Tatsuya defeats the rioting kenjutsu students 1 on 10. Afterwards, during the debrief of what happened, Mayumi mentioned that in light of Tatsuya's testimony, the Disciplinary Committee would not enforce punishment. Thus, First High separates the Public Moral Committee and the Disciplinary Committee into two entities, much like how a justice system would separate the powers of law enforcement officials responsible for arresting suspects, and judiciary officials (or even corrections officers) responsible for determining and enforcing punishment. I'll see if I can go hunt down that passage now.

EDIT: Found it in Chapter 6.

“It’s as you heard, Juumonji. As the Public Morals committee head, I don’t intend to bring this matter to the Disciplinary committee.”

[EnigmaticAxiom]

Dreyakis
Web Novel: 「聞いての通りだ、十文字。　風紀委員会としては、今回の事件を懲罰委員会に訴追するつもりはない」 (There's a bit at the beginning cut off, but that was because it was a line stated earlier in the LN)
Light Novel: 「聞いてのとおりだ、十文字。風紀委員会としては、今回の事件を懲罰委員会に持ち込むつもりはない」
I'll let you handle the translation, since you're an actual translator. Also, you're right, it sounds like they separate Public Morals and Disciplinary Committee, though, logically, I feel they are the same thing, and nothing more has been said about another group.

風紀委員会 vs. 懲罰委員会. Perhaps they're talking about a difference between the student run committee and a faculty-based committee? The school is big on student autonomy, after all.

[Dreyakis]

Dreyakis
Web Novel: 「聞いての通りだ、十文字。　風紀委員会としては、今回の事件を懲罰委員会に訴追するつもりはない」 (There's a bit at the beginning cut off, but that was because it was a line stated earlier in the LN)
Light Novel: 「聞いてのとおりだ、十文字。風紀委員会としては、今回の事件を懲罰委員会に持ち込むつもりはない」
I'll let you handle the translation, since you're an actual translator. Also, you're right, it sounds like they separate Public Morals and Disciplinary Committee, though, logically, I feel they are the same thing, and nothing more has been said about another group.

風紀委員会 vs. 懲罰委員会. Perhaps they're talking about a difference between the student run committee and a faculty-based committee? The school is big on student autonomy, after all.

Jury might be out on that. That's only interpretation based on someone else's work on Chapter 6. Strictly inferring from the text, it seems like they are separate groups.

[larethian]

As I've mentioned before, 風紀委員会 is usually translated to either Public Morals Committee or Disciplinary Committee. As such, it's very confusing to refer to 懲罰委員会 as the Disciplinary Committee, so I'll suggest using 'Disciplinary Board'. Eg. 医療懲罰委員会 => Medical Disciplinary Board

[MiY4Gi]

Alright, what of my other proposal? That is...

-----------------------------------
“To be precise, it’s not Cast Jamming. What I used is a practical application of Cast Jamming, ‘Specific Magic Jamming’.”

>>>

"“To be precise, it’s not Cast Jamming. What I used is a practical application of Cast Jamming, ‘Selective Magic Jamming’.”

[MiY4Gi]

Urg, how long will I have to put up with this "Post awaiting moderation" thing? I can't even edit my posts until they've been approved. Or at least, if I can, then I don't know how. I prefer not to double/triple/quadruple post if I can, but only being allowed to edit my posts after they get approved one by one, just puts me off.

Well, anyway I just wanted to say that EnigmaticAxiom is probably correct about the Disciplinary Committee. It's likely that it is a group made up of the Teaching Staff, and they have the final say on issues of suspension/expulsion, or possibly even all punishments issued by the school.

Looking back at when Mari, Juumonji, and Tatsuya were discussing the charges:

------------------------------
“Hm…… very well. Prosecution is left to the discretion of the apprehender, after all.”
Nodding at Tatsuya’s words, Mari turned her eyes towards Katsuto.
“It’s as you heard, Juumonji. As the Public Morals committee head, I don’t intend to bring this matter to the Disciplinary committee.”
“I’m grateful for your leniency. To have used a highly lethal magic such as Sonic Blade in such a place. Even though no one got hurt, we had thought that a suspension at least was unavoidable. I’m sure the person in question himself realised that. We’ll give him a full lecture, and make sure he takes this lesson to heart.
------------------------------

This brings up three points. Firstly, it says that Tatsuya as the apprehender is the prosecutor. Secondly it says that the matter, and likely any such matters, would need to be brought to the Disciplinary Committee if punishment is deemed necessary. Thirdly, it implies that the Public Morals Committee does the prosecuting, but not the judging. So then, who does the judging? That I believe is the Disciplinary Committee. So, the Public Morals Committee appears to be First High's "police force". A normal police officer could choose not to report an offence (as Tatsuya does by withholding certain bits of information from Mari). Mari would be the "chief of police" and has the power to compel her subordinate to press charges, if she deems it necessary.

Well then, does the Student Council have any power in disciplinary matters? Or do they simply deal with administrative tasks?

[MiY4Gi]

Which term is correct, "Antinite" or "AntiNight"?

[EnigmaticAxiom]

Which term is correct, "Antinite" or "AntiNight"?

I quite like your suggestion of "Selective" over "Specific," but that's up to the translators. And I believe it is Antinite, since it is supposed to be a mineral extracted from "spiritually dense" regions.

[Dreyakis]

The second paragraph seems contradictory. Am I misunderstanding it?

"The kenjutsu club’s next ace, second year Kirihara Takeaki, whose strength was widely viewed as top class, had been defeated by a freshman Weed.

As stated earlier, this news had greatly startled the ones who believed in the imperfect magic evaluation process, and caused not inconsiderable uproar."

If some magic students believed that the magic evaluation process was imperfect, why would they be greatly startled? I mean, they know that the magic evaluation process is flawed, so why be surprised? It would make more sense if those people believed the magic evaluation was perfect, and were thus naturally startled by the "Academically weak" Tatsuya's accomplishment.

People can still believe in flawed systems that are currently in place. It's synonymous to knowing that a system is rotten, but given that there is no alternative, people still choke it down and go with it.

From the perspective of the Course 1 students, they may know that the system favors them over the Course 2 students (thus being flawed and imperfect), but they honestly don't care. Very few people coming from privilege would campaign on behalf of the downtrodden after all. So, when these Course 1 students hear that some upstart Weed is challenging the system, this would naturally be surprising. Apparently in MKnR history, no Course 2 student had ever successfully managed to overturn conventional wisdom until Tatsuya came and torpedoed it.

Regarding the second question about the Public Moral Committee and Disciplinary Committee, I believe the roles are a little different. As you said, Tatsuya serves as both the police and the prosecuting attorney: he made the arrest and recommended punishment. However, this is where we differ. I believe it is the Student Council combined with the Club Activities Group (since Kirihara belongs to the kenjutsu club) that ultimately has the power to decide whether to act on that or not. On campus, it is the Student Council that has the undisputed leadership positions to make these calls. Finally, the Disciplinary Committee, made up of either the students or faculty, actually carry out the punishment. Drawing from Engimatic's comment regarding school autonomy, it makes sense that the power to decide guilt or innocence lies in the hands of the students, whereas the teachers only come in to handle the final proceedings after everything is decided.

[MiY4Gi]

Mm, Dreyakis I took the initiative to change AntiNight to Antinite to keep things consistant, however do you have reason to believe that the former term (i.e. AntiNight) is the correct one? Also, what are your thoughts on replacing Specific with Selective, in the term for Tatsuya's magic?

Ah, and I'm just throwing this out there, but I decided to change all of the British Spellings to American Spellings. Funny thing is, many chapters appeared to have mixtures of the two spelling systems, and a few editors kept changing one or two words back and forth between the two spellings. I couldn't help but smile when I noticed them in the wiki editing logs.

[Dreyakis]

Mm, Dreyakis I took the initiative to change AntiNight to Antinite to keep things consistant, however do you have reason to believe that the former term (i.e. AntiNight) is the correct one? Also, what are your thoughts on replacing Specific with Selective, in the term for Tatsuya's magic?

Ah, and I'm just throwing this out there, but I decided to change all of the British Spellings to American Spellings. Funny thing is, many chapters appeared to have mixtures of the two spelling systems, and a few editors kept changing one or two words back and forth between the two spellings. I couldn't help but smile when I noticed them in the wiki editing logs.

I've only seen it spelled AntiNite. In my mind, AntiNight sounds ridiculous. We're not the Belmonts, people, we don't try to kill a time of day.

I haven't really decided in regards to Specific vs. Selective. I didn't translate the chapter where this issue came up, so it depends on when I run into it in the text. Bear in mind that this might turn into a non-issue. Tatsuya doesn't talk about his own abilities very much and I think his description of his magic is so narrow in context that I very much doubt he will actually call it out by name again. (This isn't a shounen series where people scream their attacks all day long. Leo, I'm looking at you.)

[MiY4Gi]

Thanks Kadi.

I have two items that I need input on by the experts.

好奇知覺能力 = Inquisitive Sensory Ability (?)
鴨野 甲 (Need family name)

The first item is related to Mizuki's eyes (see context on page 156-7). Direct translation of 好奇 知覺 能力 cuts this down into Curiosity Sensory Ability, though I dislike using "Curiosity" as the first term, so I propose Inquisitive instead. At any rate, this is still a literal translation of the Chinese text, so any pithier form would be much appreciated.

Mm, I don't see how senses, or a sensory ability can be inquisitive, or curious for that matter. Perhaps that's the literal translation, but what is the interpretation? Curiosity basically means a thirst for knowledge right? And our senses enable us to obtain that knowledge. So our senses themselves can't experience curiosity, but they can appear to be curious, by trying to obtain more knowledge than a typical person's senses would. I think this "curiosity sensory ability" is actually referring to the tendency of the senses to "detect" more than is considered normal, that is why I propose for the term "Acute Sensory Ability" to be used instead of "Inquisitive Sensory Ability".

The definition of acute as stated on TheFreeDictionary is:

1. Having a sharp point or tip.
2. Keenly perceptive or discerning: "a raw, chilling and psychologically acute novel of human passions reduced to their deadliest essence" (Literary Guild Magazine). See Synonyms at sharp.
3. Reacting readily to stimuli or impressions; sensitive: His hearing was unusually acute.
4. Of great importance or consequence; crucial: an acute lack of research funds.
5. Extremely sharp or severe; intense: acute pain; acute relief.

And also, I've seen the phrase acute senses being used many times before to describe, for example, the enhanced hearing ability of blind people. The term "keen" has also been used to say the same thing, however "acute" is more appropriate due to it also meaning "extremely severe", which would best describe Mizuki's condition.

Also, out of Family, House, and Clan, what is the current preference? Or do the three mean different things? I've seen Family and Clan being used in the same chapter, without any noticeable difference in meaning, so I was wondering if there's any special reason for using one over the other? I personally like the term Clan, since it emphasizes the "togetherness" of the family. I don't think people from other countries place such a large emphasis on which family they belong to. If I'm not mistaken, in Japan members of the same clan usually maintain strong connections, and like Royalty, some form connections with other clans by pre-arranging marriages. No wait, I'm not entirely sure about that, but I think I saw, read, heard it somewhere.