Sayonara Zetsubo Sensei sub project

[Setherzam]

the only reason A.F.K bothered translating is cause we passed them, after they passed us then they stopped.

[onizuka-gto]

the only reason A.F.K bothered translating is cause we passed them, after they passed us then they stopped.

Surely, they can't be that petty?



I think your making mountains out of anthills...

[the_naming_game]

While competition isn't the highest example of human aspiration, I wouldn't exactly call it petty. I will ask this question: would afk have translated v1 and part of v2 of the haruhi novels, if it were not for baka-tsuki? Perhaps, and perhaps not. But I strongly suspect baka-tsuki was an influence.

And I think it's a good thing. Multiple translations are always good, since it's impossible to express all the nuances, even assuming one is fluent in both languages. Note that I've found things I consider mistranslations in their version too. Nothing big, but Kyon's opening monologue in volume 1 is an enjoyable read, and even more so in Japanese. (I will admit that b-t's errors would seem to be more numerous, but in either case, afk or b-t, the enjoyment I get is from the wording choices, not the precision of translation.)

----

I should also note, that SZS is not an easy anime to sub if you want to do a thorough job of it. Even native Japanese have to work in order to get all the references. Or rather, they have to follow "Hayate no Gotoku" as well as "Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei" since both mangaka have a history, and often make references to each other's work. And then you have to know a lot of cultural trivia, as well as personal trivia about the mangaka. Not to mention, the writing in the anime is often horribly pixelated and hard to read. Even the japanese fan wiki for SZS has some kanji they can't figure out.

(of course, the fan wiki does help in subbing, but even in the best case, you still end up going through 10x the amount of Japanese you would with a normal anime. Calculated as: the text annotations probably triple the size of the script, and the notes on the wiki are probably about triple the size of the annotations, round up for a nice round number. And note. If you have to google for an answer, you end up going through say, 40x the normal amount of Japanese or more, considering the obscurity of some of the references. Luckily, the fan wiki is fairly thorough.)

----

So. Haruhi novel translation is hard, just from sheer bulk of text, plus occasional references, uncommon vocabulary, and Kyon's byzantine sentence structure, especially considering it was one guy doing these translations. SZS translation is hard, just from sheer bulk of references. Baka-tsuki has participated in both, and afk has done both projects partway, and stopped. As for what this means? I'm not a mind reader, but afk has a long history of taking pride in its quality. There are plenty of projects that other groups are already doing, that it does as well. From this we can surmise that "let's show you how it should really be done" is a plausible motivation. (Note, I don't have anything against this. Even if I get "shown up," at least I learn something from it, if it's legitimately better. It's the best kind of criticism, constructive.)

From that you could say that afk, having proven (to some extent I'd agree, but afk does not equal perfection either. One should admire them for what they are, an experienced, quality-focused group, not a perfect group.) its quality point with haruhi and szs, decided that continuing translations was too much of a time sink, and stopped. I would note that they ARE time sinks though. It's definitely not some petty decision as in "I'll stop my translation, take my ball and go home." It's time out of their life, not yours (general "you"), after all.

In closing, groups are definitely influenced by what other groups are doing, and one can't always attribute those influences to malice. I would have to split the difference in this case, and say that had SZS been an easier anime, afk would have finished it long ago. and had there been no bure-tsuki, afk would likely not be as far along in SZS as they currently are. E.g. the timing of their restart almost certainly was connected to bure-tsuki, but the timing of their re-stop is only partially related at best. Obviously, if they really were hell-bent on "showing us up" they'd just finish the entire series and be done with it.

----

It's really too bad that b-t and afk can't be on friendlier, more open terms. (The cause is partially on the b-t side as well, mind.) After all, we often find ourselves doing related projects. I'm sure we could be of use to each other. And to be clear, I'm certain the benefit would be in both directions.

----

I'll just leave off with these random bits of Japanese vocabulary:

bure bure bure bure
ぶれ /(n) camera shake/picture blur/
(also note the defocusing/shaking at a few times in the OP, plus the mention of shaking later.)

shinya, ore wa TEREBI wo miteita
見る != 観る (though obviously related.)
見る [みる] /(v1,vt) (1) to see/to watch/(2) (as an auxiliary verb) to try/(3) to take care of/(P)/
観る [みる] /(oK) (v1,vt) to view (i.e. flowers, movie)/

ZAPPING, seikousha ga homerareteita
ザッピング
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%B6% ... 3%E3%82%B0
ザッピング(Zapping)とは、テレビ視聴において、リモコンでチャンネルを頻繁に切り替えながら視聴する行為のことである。
"Zapping" (ザッピング) is, regarding the watching of TV, the frequent changing of channels.
(note how this ties in with the TV watching mentioned in the lyrics. E.g. he was watching tv in a daze, e.g. not flipping, and successful people who flip channels are praised. Praise such as "that person's center is unshaken. So wonderful.")

hito toshi-te, ore, jiku ga buretenda (argh, word filter)
軸 [じく] /(n,n-suf) axis/stem/shaft/axle/(P)/
The edict definition belies some of the other interpretations, as "center" and "central driving force."

http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/search.php? ... se=1&row=0
(6)活動の中心となる物や人。物事の中心。
「チームの―として活躍する」
(6)The center of action for a thing or person. A thing's center.
"He played a central role in the team."

http://kokogiko.net/m/archives/001762.html
位置情報周りでGoogleの戦略がぶれている
Google's strategy is defocused in the area of localized information.

http://blogs.itmedia.co.jp/knowledge/20 ... _4d12.html
コンサルとして軸がぶれている
Losing one's convictions as a counselor.

http://www.greemy.net/blog/2007/08/post_71.html
　だから、おもしろい案を考えてくれた人たち、採用できなくてごめんね。今は基礎固めで、広く展開した企画などはもう少し待って欲しい。だけど案をぽんぽん出すのは大いにけっこう。これからも、頑固な姿勢は変わらないと思うけど、そういう心情があることを知っておいてほしかったのです。
　軸をぶらさない活動。それを頭の中にいれておきましょう。
　That is why I would like to say to those who have proposed interesting ideas, sorry for not adopting them. Right now we are building our basics, so we would like to wait before doing any sort of expansive developments. Even in the future, I think we should not change this stubborn attitude, but it is also desirable to keep those feelings in mind.
　Focused activity. Let's keep this in mind.

So what are shaking, blurred humans, or humans whose axis/center is blurred? Those who are frazzled, without a calm center, I would guess. Just understand that both "blur" and "shake" here refer to the same kind of feeling, that of being lost, apathetic, not caring ... that kind of feeling. (Okay, I'm starting to interpret here, but really, use your own interpretation if you want. I personally think "twisted" doesn't convey the helplessness and being lost, which I think is integral to having this make sense.)

----

So a paraphrase of the whole thing would go like this:

(blur blur blur blur)
(blur blur blur blur)
(blur blur blur blur)
(blur blur blur blur)
I was up late at night watching tv.
Nothing to do so I just watched blankly.
Winners who channel flip are praised. (e.g. those who can fit smoothly in with the world. channel flipping being used here as a point of contrast.)
(He isn't lost at all. How wonderful.) (lit: "His center isn't shaken/blurred at all." e.g. "he's so focused.")
I already know. The reason why I'll never be appreciated. (e.g. not like that other guy just was.)
And that's because as a person,
I'm completely lost. (lit: "my center is shaken/blurred.")
In which case, just f--- it all!
Just let everything be
blurred blurred blurred blurred all over.
Just go turn into a shaking unknowing mess!
Just come apart!
I'll just be a blurred blurred human,
but I'm certain
if you were here, I could change.
(I'm right here. If you would only realize that.) (lit: "I'm right here. Notice. {imperative sense}")

Anyway, I went off on a tangent here. But as you can see, these lyrics actually do form a coherent whole, though a somewhat more despairing one than afk's version. (though despair is appropriate, don't you think?) Hopefully this analysis helped give someone greater enjoyment of this song. (And the video, of course...) My main point is up before this tangent though.

[Smidge204]

AFK has an attitude problem. As someone (formerly) involved with Bure-Tsuki I can attest that attitudes on our side were very open, optomistic and cooperative. We tried on several occasions to contact AFK and arrange for some kind of cooperative effort or even to just verify if they planned on continuing the series or not.

On the rare occasion that someone with any real link to the group actually replied (via IRC - thier only means fo contact) it was ridicule and banning from the channel.

One one occasion, regarding episode 8 IIRC, we noticed some fairly significant errors in our release and were contemplating doing a re-release. AFK then accused us of script stealing despite the fact that we released ep 8 first and they hadn't released at all at that point.

The fact that they caught up so quickly (2 days per ep?) fueled a few rumors that they were actually stealing scripts from us... though we would never be such assholes to outright acuse them of such without actual proof.

Yes, they do excellent work when they actually do something, but their attitude towards their fans and other groups is pure f-ckwittery at best. I think "petty" is the perfect word to describe their motives IMHO.
=Smidge=

[Kaisos Erranon]

afk just released episode 10.

Heh.

[onizuka-gto]

thats nice. but im waiting for episode 12.

Anonymous subber already did ep 10 and 11....

meh


As for what Smidge mention, its sounds like its becoming quite a the normal response from the old guard,

A bit like the new model army versus the last samurai....sorta thing.

[the_naming_game]

I never actually went to their channel, so I learned about all this second-hand. So I don't have the exact timing of when we made such-and-such an offer, how the offer was made, etc. I'll say from what I understand, we were not very articulate in explaining our position, HOWEVER, they would kickban us before we had a chance to clarify ourselves, and as Smidge's example with ep8 shows, they are prone to jump to conclusions before thinking things through. And it was all downhill from there. I will say that there was some complaining on b-t on their one month (at the time) lapse in szs releases. So that might have made them trigger-happy.

Were we "perfect" in our PR, would we have gotten the same response? I don't know. I'm thinking "probably." But I definitely didn't want to whitewash baka-tsuki's side of things.

I don't know afk's true organizational structure. (if anyone does, please enlighten me.) But I assume that the ones who do the main work are too busy to be the ones kickbanning, etc in-channel. That, and my reasoning in the other post, is why I don't want to call their release schedule "petty." The other stuff, well ... I'll just say they seem to act very polarized with an "us vs. them" attitude.

So, there you have it -- a.f.k. and baka-tsuki will likely never be on good terms, and while I can kind of understand how it happened, somehow I still find it hard to understand how it happened. That's fansubbing.

[Beware the talking cat]

So is the Bure-Tsuki sub project officially dead then?

[Krikit]

Baka-Tsuki on an anime??? O_O

I thought the Big Boss tried to stay away from illegal things like fansubs.....

*I know I don't ^_^*

[TheGiftedMonkey]

Ep. 6
Ep. 7
Ep. 8
Dead

[Krikit]

Got it...^_^