I'm seriously doubting Kyon's normalcy XD

[quigonkenny]

quigonkenny: Great analysis. You forgot Kyon/Itsuki though

No, I didn't, actually... Itsuki is straight. He's remarked upon the other SOS members looks enough and displayed his jealousy toward Kyon's relationship with Haruhi enough that I'm fairly convinced.

Now, he is a close talker, which certainly gives Kyon some creepy yaoi overtones. Frankly, I think he does it just to mess with Kyon's head. He is somewhat of a Itsuki, isn't he? ("Sneering" or no)

(LOL censor FTW!)

[HAL9000]

Here are my thoughts on the inner workings of Kyon's current (as of Volume 9) "harem," with apparent feelings on both sides and likelihood of eventual pairings. Spoiler tags are mostly for size, but there's a little Sasaki stuff in there that probably shouldn't be read if you haven't read Volume 9.

Thoughts?

Mind if I speculate/"play devil's advocate"?

Spoiler! :

Kyon's feelings for Tsuruya: Physically attracted, certainly. She's hot. She's interesting to him beyond that if only due to her near superhuman perceptiveness, combined with her complete willingness to not get involved. She's the anti-Haruhi in that respect, which has got to make him more attracted on a certain level, but I think they have the makings for good friends much more than anything romantic.
Tsuruya's feelings for Kyon: Interesting. He's the eye of the storm, in her eyes, making her probably the one character in the series whose point-of-view most closely matches that of the readers, despite the fact that Kyon narrates. She keeps her feelings close to her chest, but is not above a little flirting here and there. I think she could eventually have romantic feelings for him, but not at this point.
Kyon x Tsuruya likelihood? Low. She's clearly the dark horse of the four main female characters, but as SHUFFLE! taught us, never count the green-haired senpai out. She'd certainly be my choice, were I in Kyon's shoes.

I have a theory that Tsuruya may win simply because she's waiting in the wings. The ending I'm anticipating is as follows- Haruhi gives Kyon up and ascends to godhood; Mikuru returns to the future, with the implication that she will become corrupted and turn into "evil", manipulative Big-Mikuru; and Yuki is destroyed. Kyon in the end will have to deal with his post-tramatic stress disorder, and the only other girl left to help him return to sanity is the so-called green-haired sempai.

Just being Kyon's friend may ultimately prove to be the path to his heart. If you believe in lasting high-school romances.

Kyon's feelings for Mikuru: Physically attracted to and beyond the point of infatuation. Cares for her a great deal (moreso for small than big), but sees her as unattainable due mostly to her attractiveness, her intrinsic impermanence (both from her higher school grade and her future origin), and (for different reasons than Mikuru, due to his thickheadedness) Haruhi's wrath. Is also somewhat scared by Mikuru (big) and might be trying to do something about her. Perfectly happy to protect Mikuru (small) and put her up on an unattainable pedestal, because it's safe.
Mikuru's feelings for Kyon: One of two possibilities. One, she's madly in love with him, borne from her admiration for him as a historical figure (in her time) and his not completely non-existent charms, but she's forced daily to remember that for her moreso than for him, a relationship is unattainable, if for no other reason than it might remove her from existence. Or two, this is all a big charade on her part to toy with his feelings to get the result her superiors want. It's a little dark for this series, and a militantly Kyonist opinion (which I don't share), but the groundwork is there for the possibility to exist.
Kyon x Mikuru likelihood? Low, without massive changes to the plot. She (small, at least) is going to be leaving this series eventually, probably some time before the end, and her leaving will be so sad as to make the end of that one episode of FMA (you all know which I mean) look like the funniest episode of Keroro Gunso. It's just not meant to be. Maybe Kyon'll get lucky and get a piece before that happens... Just kidding.

Heh. I see Kyon as the type to enjoy the night, go home in the morning, and then not call for a few days... which would be an especially dirtbag-ish thing to do if Mikuru had to return to the future the next day.

It's an interesting idea that Mikuru is knowledgable of Kyon as a historic figure. I always considered him to be too irrelevant to be included in any histories. But this brings us back to the trap of trying to figure out just how much time travellers can affect the past. (I have yet to see this done well in any fiction, never mind something as "soft" as the Haruhi franchise.)

Kyon's feelings for Sasaki: Good Friend. Maybe he has deeper feelings hidden underneath, but if so, he doesn't know they're there. And the presence of the Dark SOS isn't helping. Depending on the events in Vol 10, we may see something grow in the future, but I doubt it.
Sasaki's feelings for Kyon: Unclear. She may be even more emotionally stunted than Yuki, because Yuki at least has an excuse. She's emotionally immature, is far too self-deprecating, and, most tellingly, her omnipresent, vacant, dead Closed Space just creeps me (and Kyon) the hell out. She may be more interested in Kyon than in any other male, but is that really saying anything?
Kyon x Sasaki likelihood? Short term? Mid-to-Low. Possible depending on the events in the β timeline of Volume 10, but nearly impossible in α. Long term? Zero. These stories are "The xxxx of Haruhi Suzumiya," not "...of Sasaki Whatshername." There's a good chance "God" put her here only to be the love rival that every anime/manga/light novel heroine worth her salt has to face at least once, and she's not doing a very convincing job in that part so far. Miyokichi has had better buildup.

I tend to agree with all of the above; we won't see Sasaki again after this arc ends.

Kyon's feelings for Yuki: Quite a bit more than he's willing to admit, I'd bet, but conflicted. He trusts her implicitly, but there's still that little niggling bit of doubt, that worry that she's going to go "Disappearance" Yuki on him again or that the IDSE might decide to reformat her into the Ryoko File System, that makes him keep his distance. He's very protective toward her, even moreso than for Mikuru, for those reasons.
Yuki's feelings for Kyon: As strong as they can possibly be for a being who isn't supposed to have them. And therein lies the problem. She isn't 100% clear on the concept of love, much less how to act on it. The one time she tried, she almost killed him, and it caused her to institute some pretty draconian safeguards (some of which I'm betting we haven't yet seen) to make sure she doesn't do it again. She's the only character in the series that we can safely, unequivocably say is "in love with" Kyon, and it scares the s**t out of her.
Kyon x Yuki likelihood? Fair. The only character besides Haruhi that can be said to have anything but a remote chance at Kyon, which is not surprising, as she is the only SOS member outside of Kyon and Haruhi to show any real character development, and in many ways has shown more than those two. Also, as Haruhi has shown strong protective feelings for her, she's somewhat safe, in the respect that a relationship with her would probably not end the world. It has been said that she is the author's favorite, and she is certainly the sentimental favorite, because everyone loves a robot love story. These are the stories "of Haruhi Suzumiya," but last minute switcheroos and "favorites" coming in second are not unheard of in the harem genre...

Just a little bit of evidence to support the fact that Haruhi may allow a Kyon/Yuki pairing- in Snow Mountain Syndrome, when Haruhi thought that a fevered Yuki was moaning Kyon's name, she selflessly urged the boy to visit her.

As a general Yuki fan, I've been waiting for the next "big move" on Yuki's part. The full scope of her presence/role in the SOS Brigade was revealed in "Disappearance", but we've had little development since then. Yes, she's getting more human, but to what end? Sasaki's moving in on your man, Yuki! Watcha gonna do 'bout it?

Kyon's feelings for Haruhi: Definitely attracted both physically and emotionally, but she scares the crap out of him, and annoys him to no end. Despite the fact that he has kissed her, he tries to convince himself that it was only to save his own skin, and if he keeps it up, may eventually succeed. I don't think he'd turn down a second chance, however.
Haruhi's feelings for Kyon: She wants him. Bad. Only problem is, she's emotionally insecure and immature (I'm seeing a pattern), and can only resolve those feelings in aggression, denial, and depression (melancholy, if you will). The question is, what is more horrifying? Her reaching emotional maturity and facing her love of Kyon after she finds out her abilities, or before?
Kyon x Haruhi likelihood? Fair-to-High. She is in the title, after all. Plus, she's the Tsundere, which is like MVP and Batting Champ rolled into one. She needs a little more maturity (of course, so does Kyon), but I can see a "GOOD END" in her future (if anyone is going to get one). But that's only the destination. The real story is in the trip there.

All in all, a good summary. I still feel the ultimate point of the series is to bring Haruhi to a point that she'll break her own heart out of selflessness, but that's probably just my cynical side coloring my perceptions.

[quigonkenny]

Spoiler! :

I have a theory that Tsuruya may win simply because she's waiting in the wings. The ending I'm anticipating is as follows- Haruhi gives Kyon up and ascends to godhood; Mikuru returns to the future, with the implication that she will become corrupted and turn into "evil", manipulative Big-Mikuru; and Yuki is destroyed. Kyon in the end will have to deal with his post-tramatic stress disorder, and the only other girl left to help him return to sanity is the so-called green-haired sempai.

You've got to be careful what you say around here regarding Uki-yay Agato-nay. Dan, at least, will make you regret it.

My personal thought on Tsuruya's resolution is that she's going to end up being a much bigger part of all this than people would expect. Most likely, this will involve her knowing even more than Kyon suspects she knows, and coming in at the last minute to give him some knowledge or nudge him in the right direction, in order to save the world (much lke in Volume 7), but her involvement could be more to the core of the story.

Let's see, here we've got someone who has shown they know pretty much everything that's going on (even if they deny it), has shown they've got considerable power (in the non-supernatural sense only, so far...), yet is content to sit back and watch, staying largely uninvolved save for a few cryptic hints and a little subtle assistance here and there when especially needed. Who's supposed to be the God in this story again?

It's an interesting idea that Mikuru is knowledgable of Kyon as a historic figure. I always considered him to be too irrelevant to be included in any histories. But this brings us back to the trap of trying to figure out just how much time travellers can affect the past. (I have yet to see this done well in any fiction, never mind something as "soft" as the Haruhi franchise.)

Okay, maybe "historical figure" wasn't exactly the right phrase for me to use. I'm not implying that Kyon is the George Washington or Alexander the Great or Masamune of Mikuru's future. I'm not implying he's not, either. I am fairly certain, though, that at least for those "future men" (see, the phrase is useful) involved in Mikuru's time traveling exploits, he's bound to be well known and considered historically important. This is fairly obvious from what we've seen so far in the actions of both Mikurus and even "Fujiwara."

[Quiet Lurker]

Spoiler! :

It's an interesting idea that Mikuru is knowledgable of Kyon as a historic figure. I always considered him to be too irrelevant to be included in any histories. But this brings us back to the trap of trying to figure out just how much time travellers can affect the past. (I have yet to see this done well in any fiction, never mind something as "soft" as the Haruhi franchise.)

Okay, maybe "historical figure" wasn't exactly the right phrase for me to use. I'm not implying that Kyon is the George Washington or Alexander the Great or Masamune of Mikuru's future. I'm not implying he's not, either. I am fairly certain, though, that at least for those "future men" (see, the phrase is useful) involved in Mikuru's time traveling exploits, he's bound to be well known and considered historically important. This is fairly obvious from what we've seen so far in the actions of both Mikurus and even "Fujiwara."

Actually, the older Mikuru's (and her agency's) interest in Kyon may be because he is an irrelevant figure in her time, hence a perfect pawn for the younger Mikuru to use to achieve her objectives for her future agency.
Since he is the one of the few who knows her true identity as a time traveller and the only one in the SOS brigade who knows her identity and:
1) Is not well connected in the "present" time frame. (Unlike Itsuki)
2) Does not have a "personal agenda." (Unlike Itsuki and Yuki)
3) Can be easily eliminated without much consequence if her mission goes sour. (Unlike Yuki)

[quigonkenny]

Spoiler! :

Okay, maybe "historical figure" wasn't exactly the right phrase for me to use. I'm not implying that Kyon is the George Washington or Alexander the Great or Masamune of Mikuru's future. I'm not implying he's not, either. I am fairly certain, though, that at least for those "future men" (see, the phrase is useful) involved in Mikuru's time traveling exploits, he's bound to be well known and considered historically important. This is fairly obvious from what we've seen so far in the actions of both Mikurus and even "Fujiwara."

Actually, the older Mikuru's (and her agency's) interest in Kyon may be because he is an irrelevant figure in her time, hence a perfect pawn for the younger Mikuru to use to achieve her objectives for her future agency.
Since he is the one of the few who knows her true identity as a time traveller and the only one in the SOS brigade who knows her identity and:
1) Is not well connected in the "present" time frame. (Unlike Itsuki)
2) Does not have a "personal agenda." (Unlike Itsuki and Yuki)
3) Can be easily eliminated without much consequence if her mission goes sour. (Unlike Yuki)

Wow. Someone's been hitting the paranoid juice...

Kyon is definitely not an "irrelevant figure" in any time frame. Koizumi's, Nagato's, and the "Evil" SOS-Dan's interest in him prove that for the present, and I think it's pretty apparent by now that Kyon and Kyon alone is the only one who was able to do the things the Time Travelers have helped and goaded him to do. With all the talk of Predetermined Events, a number of those have been Kyon specific. They can't "eliminate" him "easily", because they can't eliminate him at all. They need him. Certainly they've got their own agenda, just like the other powers, but "elimination" isn't even up for consideration.

Also, the "not well connected" is incorrect, too. He's about as "connected" to Haruhi as it gets, and that anchors him pretty well. He's also gotten fairly well connected otherwise, too, to individuals whose potentials for power are fairly high via social (Tsuruya and her family), supernatural (Koizumi and the Organization), and extraterrestrial (Yuki and allied portions of the IDSE) means. Having the benefit of better than 20/20 hindsight, if they needed an unfettered pawn, they would have made an effort to avoid those connections.

[Quiet Lurker]

Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you.

What I mean by not as well connected is that Kyon doesn't have many information sources (as Itsuki) and thus is more prone to be deceived (or seduced ) into doing what the older Mikuru wants him to do.

All the talk of predetermined events concern Kyon but only because he is being manipulated like a puppet in every one of these circumstances. (A move involving a pawn would naturally involve the pawn itself )

As for the last point, considering Mikuru's warning about the divergence:
"Very soon you will be faced with a great divergence, a choice that would cause a great change to the future......If you chose the other side, then it......um......it wouldn't be good for our future."

We can only speculate what would happen IF Kyon chooses to side with "the other side" but considering the lengths the older Mikuru would go to preserve the status quo. (i.e. Placing Kyon (Volume 4 and in "The Melancholy of Asahina Mikuru") and her past self (Volume 7) in danger), the greater question is what she would NOT do.

But you get my point: It is possible Mikuru is only using Kyon to achieve the objectives her superiors want without being overly Kyonist.

[quigonkenny]

But you get my point: It is possible Mikuru is only using Kyon to achieve the objectives her superiors want without being overly Kyonist.

If that was your point, you should have just come out and said it then... ^_^

I agree that it's possible the "Future Men" are using Kyon to their own ends even if he doesn't have "Phenomenal Cosmic Powers" of his own. Certainly they are doing so on some level, as they need someone in the present to do things for them, as it is apparent that they are not allowed to act overtly themselves. That doesn't preclude Kyon being significant outside of his usefulness in their machinations.

[Dan]

Spoiler! :

Kyon's feelings for Tsuruya: Physically attracted, certainly. She's hot. She's interesting to him beyond that if only due to her near superhuman perceptiveness, combined with her complete willingness to not get involved. She's the anti-Haruhi in that respect, which has got to make him more attracted on a certain level, but I think they have the makings for good friends much more than anything romantic.
Tsuruya's feelings for Kyon: Interesting. He's the eye of the storm, in her eyes, making her probably the one character in the series whose point-of-view most closely matches that of the readers, despite the fact that Kyon narrates. She keeps her feelings close to her chest, but is not above a little flirting here and there. I think she could eventually have romantic feelings for him, but not at this point.
Kyon x Tsuruya likelihood? Low. She's clearly the dark horse of the four main female characters, but as SHUFFLE! taught us, never count the green-haired senpai out. She'd certainly be my choice, were I in Kyon's shoes.

I have a theory that Tsuruya may win simply because she's waiting in the wings. The ending I'm anticipating is as follows- Haruhi gives Kyon up and ascends to godhood; Mikuru returns to the future, with the implication that she will become corrupted and turn into "evil", manipulative Big-Mikuru; and Yuki is destroyed. Kyon in the end will have to deal with his post-tramatic stress disorder, and the only othe girl left to help him return to sanity is the so-called green-haired sempai.

Just being Kyon's friend may ultimately prove to be the path to his heart. If you believe in lasting high-school romances.

OK MR. MAN, WTF R U THINKING?!?!?!?!?!11?

Yuki-sama forever!! >:O


Woah...quigonkenny, you know me well!

[quigonkenny]

OK MR. MAN, WTF R U THINKING?!?!?!?!?!11?

Tried to warn him...

[daitenshi_synbios]

OK MR. MAN, WTF R U THINKING?!?!?!?!?!11?

Yuki-sama forever!! >:O

Aw Dan, I thought your reaction would far more grand and violent.

I even had the shotguns ready. Now what do I do? Oh well, looks like I'll have to solo then.

Yuki-san suki da yo!

[HAL9000]

Why all the hate? I'm imagining for my favorite character the greatest resolution of them all, the sacrificial death! Besides, it's not like flatlining has ever stopped a dear player from tapping Pinocchio and pocketing a happy ending.

I agree that it's possible the "Future Men" are using Kyon to their own ends even if he doesn't have "Phenomenal Cosmic Powers" of his own. Certainly they are doing so on some level, as they need someone in the present to do things for them, as it is apparent that they are not allowed to act overtly themselves. That doesn't preclude Kyon being significant outside of his usefulness in their machinations.

Which comes to something that has been bothering me- Mikuru makes a big deal during her introduction of not being able to affect the past; she paints herself as an observer. Yet Kyon is constantly being dragged and dropped like a chess pawn into making sure the future comes to pass. Sure, you can split hairy words and claim that technically the future people aren't the ones acting, but they're still the ones aiming Kyon and pulling the trigger.

So none of the future men know what's going on with Haruhu and her locking down of the past (4 years ago, to be precise and redundent), but they know all of Kyon's moves and how he will bring about their preferred era?

...

Perhaps Kyon doesn't belong in our reality at all, but was created by Haruhi 4 years ago to satisfy her desire for companionship! Hence why the past has been locked down- Kyon didn't exist then, but everyone believes he did!

The typical expression of opening Friendship would be something like, "What? You too? I thought I was the only one." ~ C. S. Lewis

[magus]

Hmm...... rather than him being a creation of Haruhi, he may have been someone who's from a privous world. Since Haruhi's affection is kinda strange even if she have meet him in her past........ maybe something like the K&H closed space thing has happened before?

[HAL9000]

A reasonable theory, but it strikes me as being something of a chicken-or-egg point. I'm tickled with the idea that the future people are taking advantage of a Kyon who is the only variable element in our timeline. Just about the only thing that wouldn't be completely shackled by the kill-your-grandfather fallacy is an item from a wholey unrelated timeline... which might also explain the presence of an older slider Little Sister!

[Setherzam]

Hmm...... rather than him being a creation of Haruhi, he may have been someone who's from a privous world. Since Haruhi's affection is kinda strange even if she have meet him in her past........ maybe something like the K&H closed space thing has happened before?

sort of like Yorito from SOLA? so Kyon has gone from god to god's sex slave.

[magus]

sort of like Yorito from SOLA? so Kyon has gone from god to god's sex slave.

Lol...... she like it soo much that she still want it even in a different world XXX3

A reasonable theory, but it strikes me as being something of a chicken-or-egg point. I'm tickled with the idea that the future people are taking advantage of a Kyon who is the only variable element in our timeline. Just about the only thing that wouldn't be completely shackled by the kill-your-grandfather fallacy is an item from a wholey unrelated timeline... which might also explain the presence of an older slider Little Sister!

Kyon is the only one Haruhi is interested in........ will, other than Mikuru........ for obvious reason >_>....... anyway, at least this isn't a be-you-own-grandfather situation...... for now.