Proposal to commercialize English Clannad

[spriggan10]

@spriggan10 Is it possible that I've seen you posting in another forum, or another topic? This username sounds familiar.

Haha. I'm not surprised the username sounds familiar in these waters, but no - that wasn't me. (Jbtw, I'm a fan of the *awesome* manga, not the sub-par anime

[ainsoph9]

Uh, oh...It sounds like we have purist here... So, in that case, how do you view the VN and the anime for Clannad?

[Polarem]

Uh, oh...It sounds like we have purist here... So, in that case, how do you view the VN and the anime for Clannad?

Hehe, that question wasn't directed at me, but I want to say that the Clannad anime was the one that turned me into a non-purist. I used to be annoyed at animators that changed plot elements, but I realized that, by combining all routes into a coherent story, anime-Clannad's outcome was a lot happier than the VN-Clannad (where, in each route, one character's gain essentially meant everyone else's loss). And then I remembered that they left Kappei out of the anime. And then I was shocked/amused to realize that I didn't mind.

On a different note, I found a post on gemot that suggests that MangaGamer had been negotiating with Key since March 2010, and were still going at it in Nov 2010. Does Key dislike the west that much?

On yet another note, I found out that TLG said

Anyone who needs anything can email me directly; I often don't notice PM.

I couldn't quite find his email though. It is publicized anywhere?

[Mystes]

Anyone who needs anything can email me directly; I often don't notice PM.

I couldn't quite find his email though. It is publicized anywhere?

It's on the Main Page, but don't just copy/paste and read the address carefully. You can also use his talk pages so that when he'll visit BT, he'll see a yellow box noticing him.

[ainsoph9]

Uh, oh...It sounds like we have purist here... So, in that case, how do you view the VN and the anime for Clannad?

Hehe, that question wasn't directed at me, but I want to say that the Clannad anime was the one that turned me into a non-purist. I used to be annoyed at animators that changed plot elements, but I realized that, by combining all routes into a coherent story, anime-Clannad's outcome was a lot happier than the VN-Clannad (where, in each route, one character's gain essentially meant everyone else's loss). And then I remembered that they left Kappei out of the anime. And then I was shocked/amused to realize that I didn't mind.

On a different note, I found a post on gemot that suggests that MangaGamer had been negotiating with Key since March 2010, and were still going at it in Nov 2010. Does Key dislike the west that much?

On yet another note, I found out that TLG said

Anyone who needs anything can email me directly; I often don't notice PM.

I couldn't quite find his email though. It is publicized anywhere?

Key is just very picky about this kind of stuff because they take a lot of pride in their work, which there is nothing wrong with that at all.

[Mystes]

It reminds me that I haven't seen an IPhone app of CLANNAD yet...

[Polarem]

It's on the Main Page, but don't just copy/paste and read the address carefully. You can also use his talk pages so that when he'll visit BT, he'll see a yellow box noticing him.

Thanks!

Key is just very picky about this kind of stuff because they take a lot of pride in their work, which there is nothing wrong with that at all.

I agree, pride in one's work is essential to ensure great quality, and it also shows that the authors respect their own work. I just can't shake the feeling that Key wants to keep their work in Japan only though. It could be a coincidence, but that's what it feels like, y'know? I think the Kanon team did a wonderful job with their translation, but they were denied translation rights anyway. (I guess it was hard for Key to judge, when they had no proficient English users on their team) But back to your point, I'm certainly glad that the pride that Key has shows in the quality of their games!

It reminds me that I haven't seen an IPhone app of CLANNAD yet...

It ain't official, but Google "How to install and play CLANNAD on your iPhone or iTouch"

[thelastguardian]

Sorry for disappearing off the face of the earth. I've been busy.

Anyway you've got an interesting idea. However I would assume that you would need to seek permission from every single translators participated in the translation project. As you might imagine, this could be very difficult.

(If you are familiar with Linux, there's a movement to move from GPLv2 to GPLv3 licensing. They also have this problem.)

I don't think it's right to take their work just because we can't contact them. If you can't contact them, you might have to re-translate their parts.

As for the commercialization project, as long as Key agrees (which I seriously doubt), and the translators don't mind, I have nothing against it (and no, I don't need any profit from it).

[Mystes]

Sorry for disappearing off the face of the earth. I've been busy.

Anyway you've got an interesting idea. However I would assume that you would need to seek permission from every single translators participated in the translation project. As you might imagine, this could be very difficult.

(If you are familiar with Linux, there's a movement to move from GPLv2 to GPLv3 licensing. They also have this problem.)

I don't think it's right to take their work just because we can't contact them. If you can't contact them, you might have to re-translate their parts.

As for the commercialization project, as long as Key agrees (which I seriously doubt), and the translators don't mind, I have nothing against it (and no, I don't need any profit from it).

AHHHHH....EXACTLY WHAT I EXPECTED FROM THE GREAT TLG!

BTW, why would Key refuse, if it takes profits from it?

[larethian]

BTW, why would Key refuse, if it takes profits from it?

quality assurance of franchise.

[Polarem]

No apology required TLG; busy-ness happens. Thanks for your advice and your stance!

Getting permission (from Key and from the translators) sounds much harder than finishing the translation. I can write a script that extracts contributor names from the Wiki history, but I do imagine a number of them will be unreachable or anonymous. And given that there's still lots to be done to bring the English text up to an acceptable standard, I also imagine that restarting from scratch would take less time than figuring out which lines we can use and which lines we can't (and cleaning up the translation at the same time)... but that would then defeat the purpose of community involvement...

BTW, why would Key refuse, if it takes profits from it?

I think everyone is scratching their heads over this one. My guess is they treasure their philosophy (not sure what it is, exactly) over money, which is quite noble in the capitalistic world

EDIT:

quality assurance of franchise.

Or this

[spriggan10]

Thanks for all the input, guys.

TLG > Fair point about not using their work without permission and it does indeed seem unlikely that we would be able to reach all of the translators.

It was worth exploring, but it looks like starting from scratch on the translation would be the more realistic option. Of course, that doesn't mean that (active!) members of the community couldn't be involved in producing an official English release.

It does sound rather like Visual Art's won't be willing to license the property, but it certainly won't hurt to have the conversation anyway. Polarem > I'll keep you in the loop and let's touch base again.

To some other points...

Uh, oh...It sounds like we have purist here... So, in that case, how do you view the VN and the anime for Clannad?

I’m a purist where my Spriggan is concerned, but otherwise pretty flexible. Having said that, sorry to say that I haven’t seen the Clannad anime. I should probably fix that…

On a different note, I found a post on gemot that suggests that MangaGamer had been negotiating with Key since March 2010, and were still going at it in Nov 2010. Does Key dislike the west that much?

This is useful (if concerning!) background - thanks for the link, Polarem.

Once again, thanks for looking into this with me, guys!!

[EusthEnoptEron]

On a related note, you may find this thread on the MG forums interesting, though it's not directly related.

[Polarem]

@Spriggan10, please do keep us all updated on any progress!

@EusthEnoptEron, thanks for the link. It's the first time I'm able to hear from an employee of the Japanese bishoujo game industry; it's an enlightening and humbling read. I think it does answer kira0802's question.

obviously, their main market is Japan. And because of piracy and the unknown size of the overseas market, many times, they are uncomfortable about working with us, and it takes quite a long time to have them understand what we are trying to do.

[....]

Most Japanese game companies are thinking this,
- Is it really going to sell overseas?
- What about the laws?
- Is there a demand?

[....]

For a large budget game such as that[...] several companies may invest for its rights. This is called the "Development Council" in Japan and it is a common form of how anime are produced. Although there are some merits[...] unless all of the members of the "Development Council" agree, they can't make decisions.

[....]

most of the Japanese companies[...] only see the overseas market as troublesome, dealing with illegal translations and piracy. In order to convince those companies, and to develop a base for them to start a business overseas, I believe time and cooperation from the overseas fans are essential.

- If less people downloaded illegally
- If more people purchase the licensed material (I am open ears to prices and such)
- If people made more open discussions about the works

If the three points above improved, I think more companies will listen to us.

So according to Bamboo, it is a great deal of uncertainty, a rigid decision-making process, and a negative perception of overseas markets that lead to the reluctance of Japanese producers to get involved with localizations.

personally speaking I will not deny the benefit of fan-translators abroad.

However, it is a fact that it proves to be a continued barrier when the makers set down to consider doing business abroad. To be frank, it does not create a good image.

So I believe it is important for us to convey all of the fan-translators love of the products to the makers in a positive light, and to create a movement in which both sides are able to benefit.

I believe that there are still big hurdles such as language, cost, etc. to enabling simultaneous releases of Bishoujo games in both Japan and overseas in real-time.
I also believe that everyone's cooperation is necessary in order to break down those barriers.

What we see and what they see sound very different... we see a culture of isolationism on their side, they see a culture of thievery on our side. I don't think simultaneous release is required, but the barriers mentioned do halt the crossover completely. I wonder how we can "convey our love", as Bamboo said... (The lack of communication, due to the language barrier, makes it a bit hard!)

[spriggan10]

Polarem (& all) -> Absolutely. More news as it breaks.