Minimizing Derailing of Threads

[larethian]

I have to say that I get frustrated when I click on a thread and many of the posts were not what I'm looking for, with the thread heavily derailed. If we want to create more sustainable activity in the forums, and bring the lurkers out into the open, we need to be more responsible posters and minimize derailing.

[ainsoph9]

I think we already had a thread like this, which got derailed. Seemingly, the only way to achieve your goal would be to start deleting posts like mad, but then the mods would have no life.

[ShadowZeroHeart]

I have to say that I get frustrated when I click on a thread and many of the posts were not what I'm looking for, with the thread heavily derailed. If we want to create more sustainable activity in the forums, and bring the lurkers out into the open, we need to be more responsible posters and minimize derailing.

Lurkers aren't the problem you know... No offense, but people need to post to derail, and quite a number of these are due to our frequent and common members posting. I agree with you about how frustrating it is, so much so I gave up on most threads I used to follow, but its not an easy problem to solve. If we stick solely on the topic, the posts may be too few for the forum to move on, yet to allow it would make the people following it frustrated. If you want to solve the problem, you need to suggest a good solution that we can follow, otherwise it is quite idle talk if you ask me.

[YoakeNoHikari]

Bring the lurkers out into the open.

Lurkers aren't the problem you know... .

That's not what he's saying; he's saying that if threads are more on-topic and are easier to participate in etc., more lurkers will be interested in posting.

If we stick solely on the topic, the posts may be too few for the forum to move on,

I don't see what you're saying here. If all posts are on topic, and there are still legitimate discussions without the need to spiral into something else, I don't see why the threads would stagnate.

[larethian]

Firstly, thanks Hikari. You made my day

Lurkers aren't the problem you know...

I didn't make it clear here but it's exactly what Hikari said. Firstly, good discussions are driven by posters, while at the same time, valuable discussions attract more lurkers and would-be posters. I can write a thirty minute post to further elaborate on my point but I don't have time, so I'll just tackle the primary basic thing. Most people are busy, thus they filter threads via the title of the OP (opening post) and read only those that may contain matters that interest them. A poorly derailed thread will drive not just the regulars like us but even the lurkers away, while a good discussion can turn them into participating posters.

If we stick solely on the topic, the posts may be too few for the forum to move on

There are so many things wrong with this statement that I don't know where to start.
Though I see where you are coming from. Firstly, I agree that some amount of derailing should be allowed to have a healthy, vibrant forum. But allow me to point this out. The partial reason why this might have been the case is not an effect of the "stick solely on the topic" cause, but rather as an effect of "lack of content to discuss" cause. These two seem similar but are not the same. For light novel related threads, only people who have read the novels, with the majority being translators (which make up of only a handful of people, not to mention that not all translators read the same novels) know enough of the content to have a good discussion. That's why I have not been too vocal about this derailing thing in the past, even though I've mentioned in passing every now and then (and I admit I'm not 100% innocent from that).

But today, things have changed somewhat. With a larger number of caught up and completed projects (or nearly caught up) thanks to some super translators and an increase in the number of translators, more valuable discussions are viable in the corresponding project threads (this is a fact, because such discussions are being carried out in another forum and not baka-tsuki), which we can use to spearhead an increase in more on-topic discussions, bringing lurkers out, and possibly "migrating" some readers which have been holding light novel discussions in an anime forum to this forum.

If you want to solve the problem, you need to suggest a good solution that we can follow, otherwise it is quite idle talk if you ask me.

While I don't take offense to the above, this ruffled my feathers a little. I made the OP as I was pondering about how to best grow the community and have continuity (perhaps, because of my background, I have a tendency to think things in a big picture, even though being as busy as I am, I'm not keen to take any kind of ownership beyond that of a translator). Anyway, I didn't make a long post because I was clearing some work and it was just an in-between thought. But my my, even if this is idle talk started in the commune forum, you made it sound as it is something bad. To cut things short, the number of participants in a forum indicates the strength of its network. A network equates to networth. Any successful organization, business, or individual has a broad and diverse network, that's why I've been trying to building networks in a variety of places. Of course, in BT's terms, I'm not referring to monetary networth, but essentially resources and opportunities that can be leveraged. The facebook initiative was pretty good, as we have some reaped some potential future translators and also starting to build a different network there (not all the members are on the forum). Even in the scantalator group I'm in, there's someone interested in working on the Mayoi Neko LN project. Anyway, those things aside, having a vibrant forum that attracts people will also build a network that can help BT advance its goals. And this severe level of derailing issue is one of the key things that bother me most of all.

And it's precisely because there are no clear cut solutions that I have to be vocal about it since people forget. I was actually of 2 minds on whether to respond or just ignore since it takes time to write a post like this. But since everyone has a part to play in posting responsibly, oh well...... this is more of a reminder and a shout-out. That's the only thing I can do now with the time I have. Or perhaps, mods with more powers can use their powers a little more often on severely derailed threads.

[Xeones]

I have to say that I absolutly agree with this topic's proposition. There too many topics that get derailled for no reason... maybe we should all try harder to keep the topics focused on the matter that is proposed on the title/first post. Not only for newcomers or random lurkers, but to mantain a more organized structure in our community.

I admit that random chat is fun... so why don't we create a couple of topics with that purpose? A place where people can chat about whatever they want, without being concerned with the theme of the topic.

[ainsoph9]

Those topics already exist, one of which is the CDZ.

[Mystes]

Actually, commune was fine before closing CDZ.

Why not make a more 'free' part of the Commune, simply?

[ainsoph9]

This is true more or less. So, maybe opening the CDZ again would act as a "release valve" for the problem?

[ShadowZeroHeart]

@lare: Sorry if I angered you somewhat, anyway regarding the first point, yes, I misunderstood. But I am just wondering that would proper threads really bring lurkers out to chat? I am a bit negative on things, so I always think in the worst case scenario. There are many threads that dies off due to the lack of responses, which may not be even due to derailing, so claiming that stopping the derailing would bring more posters is a questionable point to me. Of course, if things do go that way, I would be more than happy, just that, reality is never that simple... Which is why I went onto the "if we stick solely on the topic" part.

What Hikari said, together with what lare mentioned is why I was thinking if the forum can still move on, as there is indeed a lack of content to discuss about. However, if this "lack" is present, and for a prolonged period of time, it gets forgotten. For example, just how many people really do remember the existence of our blog? The content is rather focused, yet discussions and all are rather dead. Putting our forums in the same shoes, does the forum really have what it takes to survive? Furthermore, this would imply we have rather strict regulations towards posting? Won't that chase a lot of members away? It simply worries me on that.

Yes, for the later point, about how to best grow the community and have continuity, I agree that it is a good issue, and that such growth is indeed good. However, what I meant is that pointing out the problems is not going to make things better, but rather, we need a good solution. For example, do you wish to kick people who derail topics too much? Or find someone to really delete all derailing, or in fact, how do you judge if posts are derailing? So I was more of asking "What do you propose?" rather than slam a "This is dumb" in your face. Because from what I think, I find it hard or wrong to try chasing some of those *a-hem* 10-000 posters away, as they do bring life and much contributions, despite their great amount of posts. Yet if you judge these contributors differently from other members, its unfair. Thus while having seen such an issue come up many a times, I do not see a good solution to solve the problem, which is why I, too, usually take up the "just ignore" approach. I would be more than happy to see B-T as a more focused and healthy forum, but is just ignorant to come up with a good solution to solve the issue.

As for bringing back CDZ, the intention may be good, but I do not really see the great benefits of it. While it allows some people to vent out whatever they may have in it, I do not think that it will reduce derailing that much, reason being that during their chat on the topic, they may bring forth one or two ideas that are a little related to topic, and then derails a little more, and when you look at it after some time, only does it seem completely derailed. This is like a game of broken telephone in a sense. It would be weird for everyone to suddenly come to a common consensus that "Hey, let's move this to CDZ", and it seems rather strange for someone to have to take up the role of "Please move this current discussion to CDZ, a thread has been made solely for this discussion" for derailed chats as well.

As I am just a single person with a rather poor mind, I may have accidentally offended people in these posts, but I honestly welcome feedback, and responses, as I too would like a wider view of the picture, and perhaps if we all point out the issues, we may eventually come up with some answer that can make B-T better. So if whoever reads this do have the time and would like to point out the errors in my assumptions, please do, so at least I know where I went wrong.

[jonathanasdf]

Shadow does bring up a good point of having strict rules actually causing less people posting. A good example might be some of the people on StackOverflow that mass downvote posts that have something very interesting to say, but doesn't have a complete solution, and leaving very inflammatory remarks in the comments. Happened to some of my first answers where I wasn't very educated in the particular area the question was about, but I found the question interesting and I had an idea that I found interesting and wanted to share, but wasn't actually a solution. Definitely makes me not want to post in questions where I don't have a full answer, which quickly made me quit the site because only answering things I knew wasn't fun.

Also, 100 posts.... probably 4/5 of them were spam though

[Mystes]

We can put this into the Feedback forum, if you guys want.

[ShadowZeroHeart]

I get the feeling I got lare mad... Sorry if I did...

[hobogunner]

First off, I'd like to apologize as I am probably the main offender here. (Not that I will stop doong it.)
(Writing this lost at 2a.m. Forgive me if I make no sense.)
The point of the Commune is to replace the CDZ from what I understand, and half of what we do there is against the "Rules" anyway, so that is Strike 1. Secondly, I do not see the intent for most people with accounts to treat this like some do, where they go through the General forums and post. If this was the case, we'd have thousands of threads by now.

I can understand what Lare is saying outside of the general forums, and agree, staying on topic in the serious forums is something that should be done, and I always try to bring a topic back if I derail it for some reason.

My main point is that Lurkers don't read the "General" Forums usually, the most thread I see with responses are usually the Anime Discussion threads inside of theses forums, and those are quite hard to derail.

My main point is that, yes, I agree derailing is bad, however, in the General forums it should be permissable, so long as it returns BOT within a few posts which it usually does. Outside the General area, all posts should not particularly be scanned every second, but, just occasionally make sure people aren't talking SAO in TaMnI threads, things like that.

[larethian]

I get the feeling I got lare mad... Sorry if I did...

I'm not mad, I'm just busy. Seriously.