er. accidental essay
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- ainsoph9
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Re: er. accidental essay
Here is something that has always puzzled me to an extent. Why is it that atheists use "OMG" and other expressions of the sort when they do not believe in such a being? This is not meant to be a pot shot at atheists or a snide remark; rather, I am seriously wondering on this one.
- TheGiftedMonkey
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Re: er. accidental essay
It's just set itself into the English language itself. Like how people use to say 'Bless you' when someone sneezed because they actually believed that it was the soul temporarily escaping the body or expelling evil. To this day people still say it, but it's now a social reaction that we learned when growing up to be polite even if one isn't religious. There are many examples of this.
- b0mb3r
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Re: er. accidental essay
i can be mean at times when they say "bless you" cause i immediately respond "I don't believe in God."
yeah ainsoph9 i do wonder about that too though not seriously. for example my atheist brother used "Jesus" when he's angry and i make fun of him of being a "christian." Unfortunately after dating two girls he now develop a new stupid phrase which is "eww" for every nonsensical thing he meets.
yeah ainsoph9 i do wonder about that too though not seriously. for example my atheist brother used "Jesus" when he's angry and i make fun of him of being a "christian." Unfortunately after dating two girls he now develop a new stupid phrase which is "eww" for every nonsensical thing he meets.
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- ainsoph9
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Re: er. accidental essay
Even if it is set into the English language, does that make the expression an expression that should be used? This is not to take a moral stance. Rather, given the context of the expression and the speaker, it just does not make any sense for the speaker to say such a thing. One may become tempted to say that the speaker does acknowledge things that the speaker does not themselves believe in as part of their lives. It is almost akin to swearing by the name of Santa Claus or some imaginary character from the speaker's point of view. So, why say the thing at all, even out of frustration or anger? Does the possibility exist that despite such a person trying to create a reality or world of their own, the reality that exists outside of their experiences and being come crashing in to testify something contrary to the speaker's beliefs or actions?TheGiftedMonkey wrote:It's just set itself into the English language itself. Like how people use to say 'Bless you' when someone sneezed because they actually believed that it was the soul temporarily escaping the body or expelling evil. To this day people still say it, but it's now a social reaction that we learned when growing up to be polite even if one isn't religious. There are many examples of this.
- chrnno
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Re: er. accidental essay
Personally i think the God/Santa Claus/Whatever else part is meaningless. The phrase simply represents certain feelings.
When a person says OMG it does not have any relation at all with God but is simply a way of transmitting the person's feeling i.e. surprise.
I mean there a lot of expressions that if you actually think about what is said/written make little sense. Well at least in my language there is...
When a person says OMG it does not have any relation at all with God but is simply a way of transmitting the person's feeling i.e. surprise.
I mean there a lot of expressions that if you actually think about what is said/written make little sense. Well at least in my language there is...
Can I say something about destiny? Screw destiny! If this evil thing comes we'll fight it, and we'll keep fighting it until we whoop it. 'Cause destiny is just another word for inevitable and nothing's inevitable as long as you stand up, look it in the eye, and say 'You're evitable!'
- b0mb3r
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Re: er. accidental essay
I am necroposting with a purpose. This topic I find to be a good discussion of defining a "good" person and how does one lives one's life. At the moment I am struggling with these ideas and like to hear some input of your definition if you have any.
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- ainsoph9
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Re: er. accidental essay
The "simple" answer is by the definition of "law." In other words, "law" in general is made for a reason. I am not talking about the laws of the government either, which is a later human construct. (I say this, knowing that some here posit that morals and laws are not the same thing. I am arguing that they need one another to be fully functional.) Moreover, each human being has a conscience that says that murder is wrong; stealing is wrong, etc. Whether we listen to that conscience is entirely up to us. If we think that we are being told by that conscience that murder is right or stealing is right, then that becomes a problem of application to the situation, not to the definition of what is right. The question you are asking was asked in Plato's "Republic" by Socrates millennia ago. The problem with the argument in that dialogue is not just the questions and answers, but it is also what the impact it has had on modern society is. The question itself, although indicative of a society with no moral foundation, is problematic because of what kind of society the question is coming from. Greek "morals" in those days were very much to the point of what every man thought was right he did. This means that no standard exists for good. At the same time, the question is fine because we can learn from it. However, the answer that Socrates and Plato comes up with is very problematic. Socrates states that the "good" person is a "philosopher king," who rules the people because he is more knowledgeable and therefore more moral and a better person. This logic is fault., Not only because knowledge does not equal application, it also means that people will fight over knowledge as a way to become better and more "moral" people. It also sets up the standard for having no standard of morals or "good" person when each person's knowledge varies, and they apply it however they see fit. The problem with this is that no one has an absolute definition of what "good" is, and we wind up with an infinite number of definitions of what we see as a "good" person; then, we call it "celebrating diversity." That is not diversity; it is perversion of the truth that we do not grasp the absolute truth. The truth is that without a single common standard of truth and good, we are all adrift in the sea of morality. Your question comes from this background.
Such a question indicates a "spiritual crisis" of sorts because one feels that they want to do the "right" thing but do not know what or how at any given time without someone telling them exactly what to do or how to do it. The emphasis on knowledge from Plato and not a combination of knowledge and feeling has left people crippled to the point of being dysfunctional. My suggestion for application is to feel as well; listen to your conscience because your conscience will generally tell you what is absolutely true, good, and right. Most people will have their conscience tell them the exact same thing, to at least a degree. We all know that it is wrong to hit little Johnny, even if little Johnny is the most annoying kid on the block. We all know that we should not steal Suzie's expensive jewelry, not matter how much we want it or envy her. One last thing I would like to suggest. Try reading the different religious texts of the world, whether it be the Bible, the Koran, the Gaudiya Vaishnava texts, philosophy texts, etc. I do not care which you pick. Find someone to study with, and see what you can learn. I suggest reading whatever you can from them all. Do a comparison and contrast with them. Find what is unique about each. If you truly want to define a "good" person, see what you come up with when you are done. I am not saying for you to become religious or anything. I am saying that a well-rounded education does not kill here.
Such a question indicates a "spiritual crisis" of sorts because one feels that they want to do the "right" thing but do not know what or how at any given time without someone telling them exactly what to do or how to do it. The emphasis on knowledge from Plato and not a combination of knowledge and feeling has left people crippled to the point of being dysfunctional. My suggestion for application is to feel as well; listen to your conscience because your conscience will generally tell you what is absolutely true, good, and right. Most people will have their conscience tell them the exact same thing, to at least a degree. We all know that it is wrong to hit little Johnny, even if little Johnny is the most annoying kid on the block. We all know that we should not steal Suzie's expensive jewelry, not matter how much we want it or envy her. One last thing I would like to suggest. Try reading the different religious texts of the world, whether it be the Bible, the Koran, the Gaudiya Vaishnava texts, philosophy texts, etc. I do not care which you pick. Find someone to study with, and see what you can learn. I suggest reading whatever you can from them all. Do a comparison and contrast with them. Find what is unique about each. If you truly want to define a "good" person, see what you come up with when you are done. I am not saying for you to become religious or anything. I am saying that a well-rounded education does not kill here.
- b0mb3r
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Re: er. accidental essay
I always appreciate your advise, please as I may comment on your response about conscience. While I believe murder and stealing is wrong because I experience them (friends killed and me personally been theft) and I believe in the Golden Rule, the problems stems moral foundation. For example: slavery. People back then was taught slavery is a right, a control of another being and many also "felt" was right. I am an over-thinker by my peers as it leads me think how fragile and corruptible human morality at the beginning. What bugs me is do we have “natural” morals? Is it naturally wrong to think murder is wrong? I dislike the scientific reason that explains that it is a primal social caste that disapproves it in a way that another word for society. While I believe I have a healthy conscience, it feels very uncomfortable knowing I could’ve been or could be convince murder is right or other traits I find undesirable. The studies I have done is mostly surrounds different Buddhism. What I enjoy about their philosophy is in their practicality and in its appliance on real life. Thanks for hearing me out.ainsoph9 wrote:If we think that we are being told by that conscience that murder is right or stealing is right, then that becomes a problem of application to the situation, not to the definition of what is right.
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- Mystes
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Re: er. accidental essay
Sorry, but due to my computer time restriction, I'll read this someday.ainsoph9 wrote:The "simple" answer is by the definition of "law." In other words, "law" in general is made for a reason. I am not talking about the laws of the government either, which is a later human construct. (I say this, knowing that some here posit that morals and laws are not the same thing. I am arguing that they need one another to be fully functional.) Moreover, each human being has a conscience that says that murder is wrong; stealing is wrong, etc. Whether we listen to that conscience is entirely up to us. If we think that we are being told by that conscience that murder is right or stealing is right, then that becomes a problem of application to the situation, not to the definition of what is right. The question you are asking was asked in Plato's "Republic" by Socrates millennia ago. The problem with the argument in that dialogue is not just the questions and answers, but it is also what the impact it has had on modern society is. The question itself, although indicative of a society with no moral foundation, is problematic because of what kind of society the question is coming from. Greek "morals" in those days were very much to the point of what every man thought was right he did. This means that no standard exists for good. At the same time, the question is fine because we can learn from it. However, the answer that Socrates and Plato comes up with is very problematic. Socrates states that the "good" person is a "philosopher king," who rules the people because he is more knowledgeable and therefore more moral and a better person. This logic is fault., Not only because knowledge does not equal application, it also means that people will fight over knowledge as a way to become better and more "moral" people. It also sets up the standard for having no standard of morals or "good" person when each person's knowledge varies, and they apply it however they see fit. The problem with this is that no one has an absolute definition of what "good" is, and we wind up with an infinite number of definitions of what we see as a "good" person; then, we call it "celebrating diversity." That is not diversity; it is perversion of the truth that we do not grasp the absolute truth. The truth is that without a single common standard of truth and good, we are all adrift in the sea of morality. Your question comes from this background.
Such a question indicates a "spiritual crisis" of sorts because one feels that they want to do the "right" thing but do not know what or how at any given time without someone telling them exactly what to do or how to do it. The emphasis on knowledge from Plato and not a combination of knowledge and feeling has left people crippled to the point of being dysfunctional. My suggestion for application is to feel as well; listen to your conscience because your conscience will generally tell you what is absolutely true, good, and right. Most people will have their conscience tell them the exact same thing, to at least a degree. We all know that it is wrong to hit little Johnny, even if little Johnny is the most annoying kid on the block. We all know that we should not steal Suzie's expensive jewelry, not matter how much we want it or envy her. One last thing I would like to suggest. Try reading the different religious texts of the world, whether it be the Bible, the Koran, the Gaudiya Vaishnava texts, philosophy texts, etc. I do not care which you pick. Find someone to study with, and see what you can learn. I suggest reading whatever you can from them all. Do a comparison and contrast with them. Find what is unique about each. If you truly want to define a "good" person, see what you come up with when you are done. I am not saying for you to become religious or anything. I am saying that a well-rounded education does not kill here.
Kira0802
#campione at rizon for some #campione discussions~~ And other stuffs.
#campione at rizon for some #campione discussions~~ And other stuffs.
- ainsoph9
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Re: er. accidental essay
Wall of text ahead...
Spoiler! :
- Mystes
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Re: er. accidental essay
I'll add that to the 'Read when I have time to spare' category. Seriously, my brain cannot support this...ainsoph9 wrote:Wall of text ahead...
Spoiler! :
Kira0802
#campione at rizon for some #campione discussions~~ And other stuffs.
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- Mystes
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Re: er. accidental essay
EDIT: Damn, Internet is slow.
Kira0802
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- b0mb3r
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- TheGiftedMonkey
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Re: er. accidental essay
Welcome to the moral grey area. Society teaches us to go to fight against our base animal instincts and give structure/meaning to our actions. Some promote order and a semblance of peace, others do not. The only 'golden rule' I think truly exists is, live life for as long as you can hold out.
- b0mb3r
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Re: er. accidental essay
funny how our brain is gray too.TheGiftedMonkey wrote:Welcome to the moral grey area. Society teaches us to go to fight against our base animal instincts and give structure/meaning to our actions. Some promote order and a semblance of peace, others do not. The only 'golden rule' I think truly exists is, live life for as long as you can hold out.
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