Workload Distrubution

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onizuka-gto
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Post by onizuka-gto »

Thats an interesting Idea crowkenobi,

but there are some additional processes you left out.

due to the natural of Kuroneko and Kawaii Heavens medium they have to do the graphic file formatting, and then archive it (rar/zip).

At this moment I have no clear idea who is doing which.

As to answer your question, contray to the impression that I seem to leave behind that solo decision is my responsibilty, it is decided by animous concession by all three groups adminstration executive/manager.

however this is slight lopsided due to the infrequent contacts by se-chan, which is understandable since she is has 12hrs difference.
On the other hand, between K.neko & baka-Tsuki there has been no clear agreement on the organisation since the beginning, perhaps it is because we were not communicating effectively, or our approaches were flawed due to the fact we did not know anything of how the other group operates? who knows.

But that is not to say we are not getting better, but it has been difficult, as i have basicially been left to draw up the organization, with no prior experience, and due to the miscommunication, I did not recieve any advice or solutions.

Except with my other fellow editors who were just as clueless as i was.
:roll:

Kawool is the most experienced in collaboration project,followed by se-chan.

With this much experience this project should of been managable,
But i suspect they felt that first hand experience is the best teacher, and I should make mistakes now, and learn from them, then to make them later.

It has been a steep learning curve, but i think this will not be the last collaboration I will undertake, so I welcome the experience.
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Kawool
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Post by Kawool »

three things

1- i am NOT forcing anyone
2- you mention twice kawai-heaven on your >>> schedule
3- for us also its a hobby but we just consider all the ppl waiting for it too.

whether we like it or not we should either all get on irc or msn. as communication has to improve...badly
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Nandeyanen
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Post by Nandeyanen »

I was discussing the issue with a few other editors and since it seems as if the majority of the problems from this collaboration project stem from a lack of communication, I think we ought to arrange for something like a weekly/biweekly (I use it meaning once every two weeks, not twice every week, though that would also be a possibility) meeting which would include representatives from each group. In this meeting we could decide upon a tentative schedule (due dates) for the following week/two weeks and discuss possible issues, or anything else related to the project. This would allow for each group to better manage their time, as they will know the dates things have to be done by. This meeting could be rather flexible, as we could decide upon the date/time of the next meeting during a meeting, thus it could be adjusted for different peoples' schedules. Also, keep in mind that not everyone would have to attend this meeting. It is only necessary that a few people from each group come, as we only need to figure out a schedule, which can then be posted so that other collaboration members can see it.

As well as the collaboration project meeting, the point has been brought up that within baka-tsuki, we also need to schedule an editor's meeting so that the editors can discuss editorial conflicts and resolve editorial issues. For this meeting, we might want to have at least one translator present so that editors can reference the original JP text, and ask specific questions to the translator. This meeting would probably need to occur at least once each week, if not more.

For both of the meetings, it is necessary that we arrange dates/times where we can meet. We also need to take the differences of each person's timezones into account. Perhaps we could have people post possible times for them to be on, as well as the difference of their timezone relative to GMT. After deciding upon a date and time to meet, we then have to decide upon a means of communication. It seems that the preferred method of meeting is through MSN, though IRC also seems to have its supporters as well. Both are possible, though MSN seems to develop problems once the chat log grows beyond a certain length.

Anyways, this is just a suggestion, and if anyone else has a better/more efficient idea, please put it forth. We really need to resolve the issue quickly, as it's becoming a nuisance to the members of each group.
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onizuka-gto
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Post by onizuka-gto »

Well if we put the specific times, for certain time zones to be online, it will not matter if we use IRC or MSN, because we will be more or less online able to contact each other on either one.

I'am on GMT time, i'am usually availble after 10pm on weekdays, except on wednesdays and fridays.

If we take that as a basis, that'll be 6pm US eastern seaboard.

and 12 noon far east oriental timezone (Malay/philipines/Japan)

As for dates, saturday seems like the best time, since it is the one we are all seems to be available.

If anyone else has a suggestion for these concerning timezones or others please state-so-now.

Oh if someone can recommend a free windows IRC client that can operate on a 64bit operating system would be appriciated.
"Please note, we have added a consequence for failure.Any contact with the chamber floor will result in an unsatisfactory mark on your official test record, followed by death. Good luck."

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Crowkenobi
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Post by Crowkenobi »

onizuka-gto wrote:Well if we put the specific times, for certain time zones to be online, it will not matter if we use IRC or MSN, because we will be more or less online able to contact each other on either one.
I'am on GMT time, i'am usually availble after 10pm on weekdays, except on wednesdays and fridays.
If we take that as a basis, that'll be 6pm US eastern seaboard.
and 12 noon far east oriental timezone (Malay/philipines/Japan)
As for dates, saturday seems like the best time, since it is the one we are all seems to be available.
If anyone else has a suggestion for these concerning timezones or others please state-so-now.
I can go with that, since I'm usually available at that time everyday.
onizuka-gto wrote:Thats an interesting Idea crowkenobi,
but there are some additional processes you left out.
due to the natural of Kuroneko and Kawaii Heavens medium they have to do the graphic file formatting, and then archive it (rar/zip).
At this moment I have no clear idea who is doing which.
Then we need to find out. Going with my example, add one group to do this part, or have each group do every other chapter.

My example again: We have 3 groups for editing:

Group 1 gets the entire first chapter and edits it (groups 2 & 3 are idle for now).
Group 1 passes their edited chapter to group 2 for QC while group 3 gets a new chapter to edit.
Group 2 finishes the QC and passes it to the typsetters for publishing and gets a new chapter to edit.
Group 3 passes their chapter to group 1 for QC and awaits group 2's edits.
Group 1 finishes the QC and passes it on and starts the process all over again.

For the other processes:

The translation group translates each chapter and passes them onto the ready editing group.

Typsetting and publishing group A recieves the odd-numbered chapters, group B gets the even-numbered chapters (which switches with each new volume number, unless one group is doing an entire volume).

Thus EVERYONE knows what is going on and any problems can be dealt with immediately. :)

(The only change I can think of is if the finished QC check goes back the editing group for a final go through.)
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onizuka-gto
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Post by onizuka-gto »

Crowkenobi wrote:
Group 1 gets the entire first chapter and edits it (groups 2 & 3 are idle for now).
Group 1 passes their edited chapter to group 2 for QC while group 3 gets a new chapter to edit.
Group 2 finishes the QC and passes it to the typsetters for publishing and gets a new chapter to edit.
Group 3 passes their chapter to group 1 for QC and awaits group 2's edits.
Group 1 finishes the QC and passes it on and starts the process all over again.

For the other processes:

The translation group translates each chapter and passes them onto the ready editing group.

Typsetting and publishing group A recieves the odd-numbered chapters, group B gets the even-numbered chapters (which switches with each new volume number, unless one group is doing an entire volume).

Thus EVERYONE knows what is going on and any problems can be dealt with immediately. :)

(The only change I can think of is if the finished QC check goes back the editing group for a final go through.)

Okay, using your table as a foundation:


Kuroneko gets the entire first chapter and edits it (Baka-Tsuki & Kawaii Heavens are idle for now).
Kuroneko passes their edited chapter to Baka-Tsuki for QC while Kawaii Heavens gets a new chapter to edit.
Baka-Tsuki finishes the QC and passes it to the typsetters for publishing and gets a new chapter to edit.
Kawaii Heavens passes their chapter to Kuroneko for QC and awaits Baka-Tsuki's edits.
Kuroneko finishes the QC and passes it on and starts the process all over again.


like so?

sounds complicate....


p.S: what is the irc channel details fro the ZnT thing?
"Please note, we have added a consequence for failure.Any contact with the chamber floor will result in an unsatisfactory mark on your official test record, followed by death. Good luck."

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Crowkenobi
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Post by Crowkenobi »

onizuka-gto wrote:
Crowkenobi wrote:
Group 1 gets the entire first chapter and edits it (groups 2 & 3 are idle for now).
Group 1 passes their edited chapter to group 2 for QC while group 3 gets a new chapter to edit.
Group 2 finishes the QC and passes it to the typsetters for publishing and gets a new chapter to edit.
Group 3 passes their chapter to group 1 for QC and awaits group 2's edits.
Group 1 finishes the QC and passes it on and starts the process all over again.

For the other processes:

The translation group translates each chapter and passes them onto the ready editing group.

Typsetting and publishing group A recieves the odd-numbered chapters, group B gets the even-numbered chapters (which switches with each new volume number, unless one group is doing an entire volume).

Thus EVERYONE knows what is going on and any problems can be dealt with immediately. :)

(The only change I can think of is if the finished QC check goes back the editing group for a final go through.)

Okay, using your table as a foundation:


Kuroneko gets the entire first chapter and edits it (Baka-Tsuki & Kawaii Heavens are idle for now).
Kuroneko passes their edited chapter to Baka-Tsuki for QC while Kawaii Heavens gets a new chapter to edit.
Baka-Tsuki finishes the QC and passes it to the typsetters for publishing and gets a new chapter to edit.
Kawaii Heavens passes their chapter to Kuroneko for QC and awaits Baka-Tsuki's edits.
Kuroneko finishes the QC and passes it on and starts the process all over again.

like so?

sounds complicate....

p.S: what is the irc channel details fro the ZnT thing?
It isn't really that complicated, look at it this way for volume 1:

Chapter 1 is edited by Kuroneko, QC'd by Baka-Tsuki and published by group A.
Chapter 2 is edited by Kawaii Heavens, QC'd by Kuroneko and published by group B.
Chapter 3 is edited by Baka-Tsuki, QC'd by Kawaii Heavens and published by group A.
Chapter 4 is edited by Kuroneko, QC'd by Baka-Tsuki and published by group B.
Chapter 5 is edited by Kawaii Heavens, QC'd by Kuroneko and published by group A.
Chapter 6 is edited by Baka-Tsuki, QC'd by Kawaii Heavens and published by group B.
Chapter 7 is edited by Kuroneko, QC'd by Baka-Tsuki and published by group A.
Chapter 8 is edited by Kawaii Heavens, QC'd by Kuroneko and published by group B.
Chapter 1 of volume 2 is edited by Baka-Tsuki, QC'd by Kawaii Heavens and published by group A.

There are two chapters being edited and one in QC at any one time and if there is any delay, we'll know exactly where it is.

Of course, this all dependant on how fast the translators translate.

I don't know any IRC details as I would want to use MSN Messenger.
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Post by onizuka-gto »

ah, i get it now.

that table looks nice.

As they say in star wars.

"make it so!"

:wink:

yeah i use msn as well, whats your msn contact CK?

you can grt mine by clicking my msn tab.
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bicube
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Post by bicube »

onizuka-gto wrote:
p.S: what is the irc channel details fro the ZnT thing?
The IRC channel is #znt on irc.rizon.net
the_naming_game
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Post by the_naming_game »

onizuka-gto wrote:As they say in star wars.

"make it so!"

:wink:
I know I haven't been posting much, but I couldn't resist this -- you do realize that those are fighting words for Star Trek fans, no? The words of the Captain Jean-Luc Picard, attributed to Star Wars. What is this world coming, too, eh? Pretty soon, people will be saying that Tabitha said "そう" ("sou"). Hmmmm, well she probably did, but Yuki will always own that word, in my heart of hearts.

Just like Asuka will always own "見て" ("mite"), and Yuuna will always own "banana".

schedule table
Looks fine theoretically as far as speed is concerned. Though with three groups doing editing, it seems like each chapter would have a different feel to it. Perhaps the QC should go through a combined team -- QC shouldn't take as long as editing, anyway, right?

editing
I know I've said some of this before, but editing isn't a one-pass process, and it's not a word-rearranging process. It's an error-finding process, and if the error warrants it, it's a rewriting process.

I'm sure many of you have lived long enough to know that it is practically impossible to have no errors -- and this is because it is practically impossible to CATCH all errors. It is even harder to catch errors if you don't have enough time to catch them. This time is not just time spent actually looking, but time spent doing whatever you do in your normal life, and then coming back with a new set of insights into the thing you are examining.

It is for this reason that I say that editing two chapters at once does not take twice as long as editing one chapter. I would say it's more like 1.2x as long.

Of course, if all you want to do is catch the glaring grammatical errors, someone can do that in a day. (Though subtle grammatical errors will still remain.) But that leaves all the errors that actually MATTER to a reader. Errors of meaning. Errors of tone. Errors of dialogue attribution. All sorts of things that need time to catch. Even hard work can't make up for the time factor when it comes to error finding.

editing novels vs. manga and anime
One final thing I'd like to say is that a light novel is almost completely text. With a manga or anime, the pictures and sound serve as "backup" for the any meaning that might be missed in the words. There is no such fall-back for a novel. Because of that, it's more crucial to check the text carefully. If you don't, there may be a passage that could have made a reader smile, but instead ends up just confusing him.

More smiling readers! Less confused ones! Who's with me?! (starting to imagine his own Utawarerumono-style chorus of "un"s behind him.)
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Post by Da~Mike »

Guess what The naming game? I'm with you. :wink:

You've addressed precisely what I may have mentioned eventually. :P

While I would like to ensure that the time that everyone spends on this project (including myself) results in something we can be relatively proud of, if we spend more time debating on how all of us want things done, we may end up wasting more time that we could have used more productively, whether for this project or for ourselves.

In the end of the day, like everyone else, I do this as a sort of hobby.
I would believe that no one actually enjoys; translating, editing or type-setting (or whatever else) as much as they would simply sit back and read the novel (assuming they can understand it).
I don't believe I'll have any particular qualms on how the project gets done so long as we all agree or compromise to some sort of consensus and move on.
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Kawool
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Post by Kawool »

like explained to velocity i am moving out in 3 days (that was not planned but i got a new job)
so the delay delayed me and well it is not like you cared for speed before so i hope you'll understand.
If you have something to say though, just email me.

--------------------------------------------------


Regarding workload i hope it will stay equally shared as distribution changed and make my group tl two chapters in a row with all my three tls... while sushi or this other tl did not started yet.
i suggest KH n BK hire a third tl too ...
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Post by Cala-kun »

Oh of course, and translators grow on trees. >.> At least you have three of them, whereas I'm personally made to do two chapters in a row... I could say something about workload distribution too, but I hope my implication gets across.

...Just how many more times is this issue about division going to rear its head? Seriously. We should really arrange an online meeting somehow, to try sort some of this out.
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Kawool
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Post by Kawool »

...and its my fault maybe you are the only tl of your group ?

i just suggested it to make things easier jeez...i cant believe it :roll:

chill out
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onizuka-gto
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Post by onizuka-gto »

well we have been advertising for another translator, and so far we have had no luck. But i've had an interest from one of our current translators on the Suzumiya Haruhi project, however he will only be able to join us, until he has finished the chapter he is current working.

When that will be, i have no idea, as he has given no fixed date or time.

But i've assured him that he will be welcome on this project. So i'm just hoping he will still feel like helping out, after he's done.

Fingers crossed.

:D
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