Right, editorial team for chapter one will be Baka-Tsuki.
Kawool has inform me of the situation on her side, and thus the translation of the first half, will be recieved by us rough.
As soon as we recieve the script it will be worked upon immediately.
Workload Distrubution
Moderators: Fringe Security Bureau, Senior Editors, Senior Translators, Alt. Language Translator/Editor, Executive Council, Project Translators, Project Editors
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onizuka-gto
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Se-chan
- Astral Realm
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Kawool
- Astral Realm
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onizuka-gto
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good news, the Big Boss has just implimented the wiki with security.
all baka-tsuki editors have been added to the security access list.
please head to the page:
"zeroNT:Main"
to confirm you have read/write access.
Any other group member who wish to have future access to this page, please register on the wiki, and post your wiki user name here for me to enable it.
regards,
oni
all baka-tsuki editors have been added to the security access list.
please head to the page:
"zeroNT:Main"
to confirm you have read/write access.
Any other group member who wish to have future access to this page, please register on the wiki, and post your wiki user name here for me to enable it.
regards,
oni
"Please note, we have added a consequence for failure.Any contact with the chamber floor will result in an unsatisfactory mark on your official test record, followed by death. Good luck."
@Onizukademongto
@Onizukademongto
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Kawool
- Astral Realm
to organize a bit more the work (sorry another obsession of mine) i created a thread per chapter :::HERE::: namely regarding chapter one 's progress.
i would rather talk with editors of ep 1 on msn, that tread or on the #znt channel so i can start typesetting this weekend.
i would rather talk with editors of ep 1 on msn, that tread or on the #znt channel so i can start typesetting this weekend.
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Kawool
- Astral Realm
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onizuka-gto
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Mahouka koukou no Rettousei
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i don't really have any objection.
who are your editors by the way?
are they doing anything now?
if they are feeling bored, they can come check on the progress on chapter one on the wiki page, and can grab a copy for you if they feel the script is sufficient, although i wouldn't really recommend it.
if they wish to see it, tell them to contact me.
who are your editors by the way?
are they doing anything now?
if they are feeling bored, they can come check on the progress on chapter one on the wiki page, and can grab a copy for you if they feel the script is sufficient, although i wouldn't really recommend it.
if they wish to see it, tell them to contact me.
"Please note, we have added a consequence for failure.Any contact with the chamber floor will result in an unsatisfactory mark on your official test record, followed by death. Good luck."
@Onizukademongto
@Onizukademongto
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Kawool
- Astral Realm
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Kawool
- Astral Realm
Oni is already aware of my opinion but as its a collab i'll share it with all.
I think we still have communication / organization probs (> se-chan's post is an instance)
and well it is just taking too long (3 weeks on one chapter ...with tons of staff)
and is too messy (talkin bout work on chapter 3 when nothing is done for 2)
I'd like to not be misunderstood, i just always say what i think without beating around the bush...for me it is an issue, and i would like to hear others opinions. I'm just worried that's all...
I think we still have communication / organization probs (> se-chan's post is an instance)
and well it is just taking too long (3 weeks on one chapter ...with tons of staff)
and is too messy (talkin bout work on chapter 3 when nothing is done for 2)
I'd like to not be misunderstood, i just always say what i think without beating around the bush...for me it is an issue, and i would like to hear others opinions. I'm just worried that's all...
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onizuka-gto
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Mahouka koukou no Rettousei
No Game No Life
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- Contact:
Thanks for being honest Kawool.
Let me try and address some answers to your concern.
Yes, communication has been a problem.
Each group is used to a certain mode of communication, unfortunately for us all it has not been the same.
This is because of the nature of our medium that we use, for kawool I imagine you are use to fast communication, because fansubbing in not just about subbing the episodes, but about releasing them on time.
For my group, release takes the lowest consideration, because accuracy and the quality of our projects take priority.
Our translations depend entirely on our translators, who are not so much part of the team but contributors, we have never ever placed a deadline on our translators for a script. Mainly because:
1) It is a hobby, they are not working for anything but themselves.
2) It is a privilege that they are providing for us.
3) Progress is always shown on the our wiki system, thus when they have translated something it is published immediately.
For Se-chan...i'm not so sure.
but that’s the problem. This is three different groups. That has never worked together before and whom we have no idea of how the other groups operate.
Unified organization is naturally difficult under these conditions, and I have attempted to organize this within the limited amount of power I could muster. I would be lying if I said that collaborations would be easy, and that we would not have any mishaps.
Preparation for compromises must always be on the mind.
For us it has been at the expense of crippling our own wiki system to ensure security, to restrict read/write access to project pages.
To us that is the ultimate sacrifice, because it goes against what our Wiki stands for. Yet we did so because we were willing to take the risk for this collaboration. We rather of tried, and failed, then to have never attempted at all.
I do not pretend to know what compromises k.neko or Kawaii Heaven has made for this project, but I would be interested to hear.
But at this moment it seems to me, personally that you have the impression that I have the power to command everyone and make then do as I have intended, and that the this delay is simply because I have not put 100% into this.
Let me assure you I have, even more.
I wish everything would of have gone as planned, but they do not.
Simply because the only control I have in this project are this forum, this wiki and Editors (If you count asking them politely if they have some free time to check this script by this time, if possible).
Everything else is out of my hands, I have no control over your group kawool, and neither do I have control over se-chan.
I can only imform you, and if things do not progress as fast as you intended kawool, there is nothing I can do about it.
We are working together, but when one of us lag behind the others must wait, it is something we all can not control, and unless your prepared to pay these people, you cannot guarantee they will do these task on time.
The reasons chapter 01 is taking so long, was the miscommunication of the transfer of the script, you had finished the first part of the script, and we had all agreed that Baka-Tsuki would edit it , and we waited for you to pass it on to us. However this lack of understanding of how our groups editing methods were conducted lead to the delay. You expected us to come on an IRC channel to discuss and transfer the script by text files, we expected you to publish the script on the wiki page provided, or uploaded it to the forum as soon as possible.
The second contributing problem for chapter 01 is translation of part two by se-chan team.
They had stated previously they had two translators, I took this for granted.
Thus I deployed them as such.
However both me, and I suspect kawool was unaware that the translator se-chan assigned for the chapter was new to this business, thus he took far longer, and coupled with the fact that se-chan failed to inform him of crucial information has now lead to where we are. Cala-kun, has started he can only work on weekends, and he will finshed the translation of the other pages by this week.
Baka-Tsuki has finished editing the available translation of the script since Tuesday night/Wednesday morning. All 25 pages, an average of 4,100+ words, that is four times more text then any dialogue in an anime, at leased twice as much in a manga chapter.
We took a total of five days to completely Edit, Proofread & Quality Check you are welcome to check but I suggest that’ll be a waste of time. The reason I did not forward you the script as soon as possible was because we were still waiting for the other pages, so that i may forward it to you in one complete script. Please have a little more faith, if not me, then my team. We have alot of experience in this.
I understand schedules are important to you kawool, you say this is troublesome.
You are forcing something I cannot control, even if this was organised earlier, these delays would still have happened. To bring something out too early in this method when not properly complete would be incomprehensible.
I can only ask, are you so inflexible in your schedule that you cannot adapt to this situation?
Time is money, but when we are doing this as a hobby, extra time is something we can afford. Something we can all benefit from, in which you can reinvest on other projects.
I cannot understand how it can be troublesome for you kawool, how this can only benefit my group and se-chan but not yours?
if you can explain that to me so that i can see it from your point.
As I stated before that there are advantages to delays, people are waiting for it, but we did not announce a date of release, we can still use this extra time to prepare further to make sure things goes smoothly.
The minute we release chapter 01, we are committed, so I rather we use this extra time to resolve this. I understand your concern for chapter 02, and I will state the solution further down this post.
These are the flaws in the project I have identified since the beginning:
I will list the reasons why this project had been generally delayed:
1) lack of agreement of workload at the beginning, (I received no feedback on this by kawool or se-chan, so I had to work with what little information I’ve had.)
2) lack of communication, meant lack of co-ordination. We did not agree on the communication method that all three group could depend upon.
3) Clash of editing method, because of the lack of knowledge of the way each group conducted, transfer of the script was HEAVILY delayed.
4) Due to limited information provided in 1) coupled with 2) personally assigned to task are simply not there.
To me, the point 2) & 3) was what really slowed this project down.
Right now point 2) is still a problem, but is gradually getting better, its not great but manageable.
Point 3) is also getting better.
The only really problem is to redo the translation/editing workload.
I propose we fall back on kawool’s previous suggestion, that each chapter is undertaken by one group, in turn.
i.e. Chapter three – Baka-Tsuki, Chapter four – Se-Chan/kawool and etc.
The problem with this, is that at this moment kawool you have the laregest number of translators, while se-chan at this moment only has one, who is NEW, and will naturally take longer then more experienced ones.
Baka-Tsuki only has one experienced translator as well, my second one is also new to this.
If we take this course, when the duty falls to se-chan or my group, it will naturally take longer to translate.
The only reason I suggest the two translators per chapters was to satisfy your demand for speed. But obviously this has a flaw when one translator cannot be found, it will hold up the progress.
I would also like to propose the editing system, like translation we all wish to edit the chapters so we will take it in turn.
So it will look like this: (Translating -> Editing -> Quality Proofreading)
Baka-Tsuki -> Kawaii Heavens -> kawaii Heavens
K.Neko -> Baka-Tsuki -> Kawaii Heavens
Kawaii Heavens -> K.Neko -> Baka-Tsuki
As for scans, well I prefer that you two discuss, but I would like to keep it simple for now and leave it to kawool for now.
Other details of the scans has not been released to me, but if you wish to do so, just to be clear on who is doing what then please do so now.
For chapter 02 you are now aware I’am unable to contact se-cha nt oconfirm the whereabouts of this 2nd translator, so I was going to deploy my second translator Nidema to fill in the gap, t o ask sec-han new translator to also do chapter 02to a deadline is asking too much from him. He needs a rest.
However in light of the new idea above, if you agree with it kawool, can you translate the rest of chapter two, then Baka-Tsuki will continue to translate chapter three, chapter four hopefully I would be able to locate the second translator, if not it will be difficult to ask cala-kun to translate the entire chapter himself.
And discuss the feasibility of these new solutions, if you disagree, please suggest other alternatives, if you think they would be better.
Let me try and address some answers to your concern.
Yes, communication has been a problem.
Each group is used to a certain mode of communication, unfortunately for us all it has not been the same.
This is because of the nature of our medium that we use, for kawool I imagine you are use to fast communication, because fansubbing in not just about subbing the episodes, but about releasing them on time.
For my group, release takes the lowest consideration, because accuracy and the quality of our projects take priority.
Our translations depend entirely on our translators, who are not so much part of the team but contributors, we have never ever placed a deadline on our translators for a script. Mainly because:
1) It is a hobby, they are not working for anything but themselves.
2) It is a privilege that they are providing for us.
3) Progress is always shown on the our wiki system, thus when they have translated something it is published immediately.
For Se-chan...i'm not so sure.
but that’s the problem. This is three different groups. That has never worked together before and whom we have no idea of how the other groups operate.
Unified organization is naturally difficult under these conditions, and I have attempted to organize this within the limited amount of power I could muster. I would be lying if I said that collaborations would be easy, and that we would not have any mishaps.
Preparation for compromises must always be on the mind.
For us it has been at the expense of crippling our own wiki system to ensure security, to restrict read/write access to project pages.
To us that is the ultimate sacrifice, because it goes against what our Wiki stands for. Yet we did so because we were willing to take the risk for this collaboration. We rather of tried, and failed, then to have never attempted at all.
I do not pretend to know what compromises k.neko or Kawaii Heaven has made for this project, but I would be interested to hear.
But at this moment it seems to me, personally that you have the impression that I have the power to command everyone and make then do as I have intended, and that the this delay is simply because I have not put 100% into this.
Let me assure you I have, even more.
I wish everything would of have gone as planned, but they do not.
Simply because the only control I have in this project are this forum, this wiki and Editors (If you count asking them politely if they have some free time to check this script by this time, if possible).
Everything else is out of my hands, I have no control over your group kawool, and neither do I have control over se-chan.
I can only imform you, and if things do not progress as fast as you intended kawool, there is nothing I can do about it.
We are working together, but when one of us lag behind the others must wait, it is something we all can not control, and unless your prepared to pay these people, you cannot guarantee they will do these task on time.
The reasons chapter 01 is taking so long, was the miscommunication of the transfer of the script, you had finished the first part of the script, and we had all agreed that Baka-Tsuki would edit it , and we waited for you to pass it on to us. However this lack of understanding of how our groups editing methods were conducted lead to the delay. You expected us to come on an IRC channel to discuss and transfer the script by text files, we expected you to publish the script on the wiki page provided, or uploaded it to the forum as soon as possible.
The second contributing problem for chapter 01 is translation of part two by se-chan team.
They had stated previously they had two translators, I took this for granted.
Thus I deployed them as such.
However both me, and I suspect kawool was unaware that the translator se-chan assigned for the chapter was new to this business, thus he took far longer, and coupled with the fact that se-chan failed to inform him of crucial information has now lead to where we are. Cala-kun, has started he can only work on weekends, and he will finshed the translation of the other pages by this week.
Baka-Tsuki has finished editing the available translation of the script since Tuesday night/Wednesday morning. All 25 pages, an average of 4,100+ words, that is four times more text then any dialogue in an anime, at leased twice as much in a manga chapter.
We took a total of five days to completely Edit, Proofread & Quality Check you are welcome to check but I suggest that’ll be a waste of time. The reason I did not forward you the script as soon as possible was because we were still waiting for the other pages, so that i may forward it to you in one complete script. Please have a little more faith, if not me, then my team. We have alot of experience in this.
I understand schedules are important to you kawool, you say this is troublesome.
You are forcing something I cannot control, even if this was organised earlier, these delays would still have happened. To bring something out too early in this method when not properly complete would be incomprehensible.
I can only ask, are you so inflexible in your schedule that you cannot adapt to this situation?
Time is money, but when we are doing this as a hobby, extra time is something we can afford. Something we can all benefit from, in which you can reinvest on other projects.
I cannot understand how it can be troublesome for you kawool, how this can only benefit my group and se-chan but not yours?
if you can explain that to me so that i can see it from your point.
As I stated before that there are advantages to delays, people are waiting for it, but we did not announce a date of release, we can still use this extra time to prepare further to make sure things goes smoothly.
The minute we release chapter 01, we are committed, so I rather we use this extra time to resolve this. I understand your concern for chapter 02, and I will state the solution further down this post.
These are the flaws in the project I have identified since the beginning:
I will list the reasons why this project had been generally delayed:
1) lack of agreement of workload at the beginning, (I received no feedback on this by kawool or se-chan, so I had to work with what little information I’ve had.)
2) lack of communication, meant lack of co-ordination. We did not agree on the communication method that all three group could depend upon.
3) Clash of editing method, because of the lack of knowledge of the way each group conducted, transfer of the script was HEAVILY delayed.
4) Due to limited information provided in 1) coupled with 2) personally assigned to task are simply not there.
To me, the point 2) & 3) was what really slowed this project down.
Right now point 2) is still a problem, but is gradually getting better, its not great but manageable.
Point 3) is also getting better.
The only really problem is to redo the translation/editing workload.
I propose we fall back on kawool’s previous suggestion, that each chapter is undertaken by one group, in turn.
i.e. Chapter three – Baka-Tsuki, Chapter four – Se-Chan/kawool and etc.
The problem with this, is that at this moment kawool you have the laregest number of translators, while se-chan at this moment only has one, who is NEW, and will naturally take longer then more experienced ones.
Baka-Tsuki only has one experienced translator as well, my second one is also new to this.
If we take this course, when the duty falls to se-chan or my group, it will naturally take longer to translate.
The only reason I suggest the two translators per chapters was to satisfy your demand for speed. But obviously this has a flaw when one translator cannot be found, it will hold up the progress.
I would also like to propose the editing system, like translation we all wish to edit the chapters so we will take it in turn.
So it will look like this: (Translating -> Editing -> Quality Proofreading)
Baka-Tsuki -> Kawaii Heavens -> kawaii Heavens
K.Neko -> Baka-Tsuki -> Kawaii Heavens
Kawaii Heavens -> K.Neko -> Baka-Tsuki
As for scans, well I prefer that you two discuss, but I would like to keep it simple for now and leave it to kawool for now.
Other details of the scans has not been released to me, but if you wish to do so, just to be clear on who is doing what then please do so now.
For chapter 02 you are now aware I’am unable to contact se-cha nt oconfirm the whereabouts of this 2nd translator, so I was going to deploy my second translator Nidema to fill in the gap, t o ask sec-han new translator to also do chapter 02to a deadline is asking too much from him. He needs a rest.
However in light of the new idea above, if you agree with it kawool, can you translate the rest of chapter two, then Baka-Tsuki will continue to translate chapter three, chapter four hopefully I would be able to locate the second translator, if not it will be difficult to ask cala-kun to translate the entire chapter himself.
And discuss the feasibility of these new solutions, if you disagree, please suggest other alternatives, if you think they would be better.
Last edited by onizuka-gto on Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Please note, we have added a consequence for failure.Any contact with the chamber floor will result in an unsatisfactory mark on your official test record, followed by death. Good luck."
@Onizukademongto
@Onizukademongto
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onizuka-gto
- Editor-in-Chief
- Posts: 4840
- Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 9:02 pm
- Favourite Light Novel: Suzumiya Haruhi
Mahouka koukou no Rettousei
No Game No Life
Mushoku Tensei
Mother of Learning - Location: N.E.E.T Federation
- Contact:
I believe we have a irc channel, but we all have our preferences.
Take you for example,you prefer IRC, but i prefer MSN.
my reason is of a previous bad experience where the large amount of IRC text in different colours scrolling up at such a absurb speed, made me physically sick. It was as bad a seasickness, this was six yrs ago and i haven't been on it since. except lately on the Kawaii Heaven channel due to their nifty java client.
I'am willing to give it ago, but i still find te prospect of IRc-ing dauting, and i have enough programs running on my pc to have another on all the time, but i'am willing to give it ago.
But anything more complicated then MSN and i'll be lost, i hope you know some good tutorials...
Take you for example,you prefer IRC, but i prefer MSN.
my reason is of a previous bad experience where the large amount of IRC text in different colours scrolling up at such a absurb speed, made me physically sick. It was as bad a seasickness, this was six yrs ago and i haven't been on it since. except lately on the Kawaii Heaven channel due to their nifty java client.
I'am willing to give it ago, but i still find te prospect of IRc-ing dauting, and i have enough programs running on my pc to have another on all the time, but i'am willing to give it ago.
But anything more complicated then MSN and i'll be lost, i hope you know some good tutorials...
"Please note, we have added a consequence for failure.Any contact with the chamber floor will result in an unsatisfactory mark on your official test record, followed by death. Good luck."
@Onizukademongto
@Onizukademongto
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Crowkenobi
- Astral Realm
'Zuka you've answered exactly the concerns I've had about this project and the way it's been going. I also believe that a staggered group processing structure will work, but only for the editing and qc process as I suggest that the translation duties be given to one group just to streamline that process.
As an example: We have 3 groups.
Group 1 gets the entire first chapter and edits it (groups 2 & 3 are idle now).
Group 1 passes the edited chapter to group 2 for QC while group 3 gets a new chapter to edit.
Group 2 finishes the QC and passes it to the typsetters for publishing and gets a new chapter to edit.
Group 3 passes the chapter to group 1 for QC and awaits group 2's edits.
Group 1 finishes the QC and passes it on and starts the process all over again.
(this, of course, is dependant on how fast the translators are)
About IRC, I've wanted to use it, but the lack of a GUI (like Windows) turned me off and I've been avoiding it ever since. Since I have a hotmail account, MSN Messenger would be my choice.
One more thing, I'm also wondering who has final say in this project?
As an example: We have 3 groups.
Group 1 gets the entire first chapter and edits it (groups 2 & 3 are idle now).
Group 1 passes the edited chapter to group 2 for QC while group 3 gets a new chapter to edit.
Group 2 finishes the QC and passes it to the typsetters for publishing and gets a new chapter to edit.
Group 3 passes the chapter to group 1 for QC and awaits group 2's edits.
Group 1 finishes the QC and passes it on and starts the process all over again.
(this, of course, is dependant on how fast the translators are)
About IRC, I've wanted to use it, but the lack of a GUI (like Windows) turned me off and I've been avoiding it ever since. Since I have a hotmail account, MSN Messenger would be my choice.
One more thing, I'm also wondering who has final say in this project?