[WIP] Chapter 7

TheDefend · Post by **TheDefend** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:26 pm

can someone give me the Raw data(in txt doc)(japan only) for this chapter?....

i want to join baka tsuki so i decided to work the chap 7. after all, i just got my trans prog... ^^ so i need the jap ver

onizuka-gto · Post by **onizuka-gto** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:30 pm

translation programs are all good and all, but we are talking about scans. Unless your program has OCR, it won't really help.

however if you still want to give it ago, please contact Bakafish, who holds ALL ZNT raws.

Well, i got it too somewhere, but its probably at home on my portable drive.........somewhere....

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:28 pm

Someone is already working on chapter seven, so if you join the translation team, you'll probably end up working on something in volume two.

TheDefend · Post by **TheDefend** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:58 pm

OMG.. i'm to late .... i just finish it.... then what should i do to this translation? although it gonna be some hell of editting.

onizuka-gto · Post by **onizuka-gto** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:03 pm

Thedefend. this is easy.
just create a new page on the wiki, and send me the link.

I will put it on ZNT page as a "PREVIEW" sorta thing, when the registered translator has done his/her copy, they can elect to have there verision put up in it's place or they may want to keep yours. (which to be honest can be quite some time.....

)

If you are fine with that arrangement, please p.m. me.

No point having your hard work go to waste.

Oh, and welcome to Baka-Tsuki

TheDefend · Post by **TheDefend** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:28 pm

uhh.. i don't really understand how to do it, just now thelastguardian send me pm so i just send the data to him

onizuka-gto · Post by **onizuka-gto** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:40 pm

ah, just read the script.

oh my god.

lol.

you weren't joknig when you said you used a translation program.

Oh well, i guess it gives our editors something to play with.

thanks all the same TheDefend.

Post by **HolyCow** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:46 pm

While we're on the subject of translation programs, let me first say something: Our translations here are all manual and not via programs. We don't just stick a whole block of text into a program and let it do the work. We manually translate from one language to another, because frankly, machine translations suck.

Just thought that I'd get that off my chest

onizuka-gto · Post by **onizuka-gto** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:49 pm

yes yes. don't worry the rise of the machine translators stil has a long way to go...actually a very very very long way to go.

TheDefend · Post by **TheDefend** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:50 pm

well but it's quite usefull.... for the next one i'm gonna fix it so it'll be easy to read

Post by **Darknemo2000** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:21 am

Dont look down on translation programs, still human translators aee way better but if you are so-so at japanese translation programs help a lot.

I use JWPCE and ATLAS 13 translation programs. In Zero No Tsukaimas novel case OCR progranm is not needed as I have all volumes (except 11th) in txt format (I have OCR for other cases). Not to mention that I have craeted Zero No Tsukaima term/names dictionary inside ATLAS 13th which makes translation more smooth.

Yet, some knowlegde of japanese is still requered to be able to make it into a fluent text, since coppying the bunch of translated text doesnt really work fluently here.

Jumpyshoes · Post by **Jumpyshoes** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:43 am

I feel REALLY sorry for whoevers gonna edit it . . . .

Post by **HolyCow** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:35 am

It seems that I have to dig out the last attempt Nutcase tried with the Babelfish TL Machine.

This is Babelfish's version:

As for we while striking the phase hammer which does not have the air, the whereabouts of the white volleyball where it whirls the sky of coat are chased. As for the ball which becomes the mountain from the position of the partner and flies with serve, it is received in the falling point of parabola, stepping on the procedure, toss next, almost it rises vertically.

Way that ball is chased, acquiring approach run from foreward the far of the attack line, the woman of the physical education arrival which jumps being, it shakes the right hand in, the beautiful raw stirring impression lowering. As for the unfortunate ball which is hammered everything of position energy and kinetic energy, becoming the homicide spike, it repels two blocks of the opponent team, throwing, it was sucked into the angle of coat. Perfect back attack, the volleyball staff who serves chief umpire part blows the whistle.

From Babelfish, Nutcase smoothed things out and came up with this:

As for us with empty time waiting for the bell to ring, we watch the white volleyball as it flies around the court. The ball arcs up from the opposing server to be received as it arcs down. Following the usual procedure, the ball is hit to a setter, who puts it up almost vertically.

As the ball rises, a physical education student runs forward from the attack line and jumps, swinging her right hand in a beautifully timed downward blow, full of raw power. The unfortunate ball is hammered, gaining maximum kinetic energy at its highest point. This killer spike passes two blockers to hit into a back corner of the court. A perfect back court attack. A volleyball team member serving as umpire blows the whistle.

While my human translation has it as:

I uttered this half-hearted response while continuing to watch the ball fly around the court. The opponent began her serve, and the ball traveled in an arc, before being projected upwards by the other side's setter.

From behind the 3-metre line, a girl clad in gym clothes ran forward, then lept high into the air. At the apex of her jump, the hitter raised her right arm, and viciously spiked the ball downwards. The angle was perfect, as the ball flew steeply down and landed in the corner of the opponents' court. A member from the volleyball club, who was acting as a stand-in referee, blew his whistle. A perfect back attack indeed.

Notice what the machine gives you with 'I uttered this half-hearted response'?

It all boils down to this particular line:

俺は気のない相づちを打ちつつ、コートの上空を舞う白いバレーボールの行方を追う。

Google translates it as:

Google: "You chase the whereabouts of the white volleyball where we while striking the phase hammer which does not have the air, whirls the sky of coat."

Here is Smidge's explanation:

Boiling down, "Phase Hammer" comes from 相づち

相 by itself can be either "あい" (together; mutually; fellow) or "そう" (aspect; phase; countenance)

"づち" (zuchi) by itself, only seems to translate into "hammer" when I use Google. No dictionary I can find can collaborate this. Taken as a whole, however, "相づち" could be a noun meaning "sounds given during a conversation to indicate comprehension." (Like "yeah, uh huh, sure, okay")

Which, oddly enough, fits very well with the original human interpretation.

In short, "Phase Hammer" does not require any investigation because the phrase simply doesn't exist. If it really said "school bell" it would probably be written as "予鈴" (yorei; a bell signalling that work, class, etc. will begin shortly)
=Smidge=

Another thing is the 'Back attack' line. Having Babelfish translate it as 'Perfect back attack', Nutcase proceeds to alter it to 'A perfect back court attack'. However, in the original RAW, the words 'Back Attack' were used in ENGLISH. The line was something like 完美的 BACK ATTACK, which is why I chose to retain the exact 2 words (without adding in the word 'court'). Machine translation + editing won't get you anywhere with this.

One last thing would be the 'Physical Education girl' thing. I don't think I have to elaborate any further. Just scroll up and read the bolded parts.

I understand that we are low on translators now, but if we resort to machine translation + editing, I dare say that we're going to be seeing a huge dip in Baka-Tsuki's reputation. If all we do is dump text into machine translations, there's no point of having a translation site. Just make Baka-Tsuki a site linking to every single Jap RAW and everyone else can translate it with Google.

Translation Programs work most the time with short phrases, but key in whole sentences and it goes haywire. Inserting a bucketload of text will produce wildly inaccurate translations at best, and incomprehensible jargon most the time.

In short, I am totally against the idea of obtaining RAWs, dumping them into a translator, and posting them onto the wiki for editing, and have quoted examples above as to why. Even with someone as fluent in English as Nutcase, his attempted translation of the above sentence was a complete mess, not to mention totally off target. So if you have the idea that 'I have a translation program, now I can be a translator!', I'm sorry to inform you that that will NOT WORK, but thanks for the effort anyway.

Regards,
HolyCow

Post by **Darknemo2000** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:19 am

Did I mention to not work with online translators? No? Well I do now. Babelfish and Google sucks quite a lot thats why I use ATLAS and JWPCE instead. I think you know that online translators are not the best examples of translation programs, right?

With your post, HolyCow, you just proved an old rule - NEVER EVER USE ONLINE TRANSLATORS. NEVER. Yet, the translation programs like ATLAS, though far from being perfect, are much better. Specially if you use "translation memory"and "user made dictionary"in combine.

My point is - though online translators suck, it doesnt mean that other translations programs do as well. Though human translator is always a better option, but you can make a decent translation with programs as well. Yet, you still need some basic japanese language skills and more than one translator (and not online one by all means).

erehwon · Post by **erehwon** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:26 am

LOL, hey jumpy maybe I should send KnS through google, then you can edit.

Actually, translation programs are alright for individual words, they usually give you something decent, at least for a reference.

Actually I use it, I skim the raw, pick out the words I like to have reference or I can't instantly recall the English word, number and space the words and send through, then gives me a bunch of english words with numbers to reference. So when I'm working through I don't have to spend as much time thinking about which word to use.

Anyways good effort