Strato's Japanese -> English Translation

velocity7 · Post by **velocity7** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 6:14 pm

http://www12.brinkster.com/stratoct/haruhi.htm

It appears that Strato is planning on translating volume 1... I don't know about you guys, but maybe we should contact him?

onizuka-gto · Post by **onizuka-gto** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 7:21 pm

well i don't see why we should restrict him, he can make his own version, it's not like we have have any intention or rights to restrict him. But I don't see why we can't contact him, just so he knows we have already done volume one, just to spare him the heart ache & effort. I know how it feels when you think your doing something you think no one else have touched,but only to feel self defeated after all that effort when you find out someone else has already done it.

So if he does continue after being inform, so be it.

velocity7 · Post by **velocity7** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:46 am

Okay, just had a discussion with him. The reason he's doing the translation is because ours is wrong. ^^; Well, in a sense, he wants to give a translation that is correct.

So here's what I'm proposing at the moment:

1. We replace our translation with Strato's, and credit him for the work. Kinny Riddle's work will be archived.
2. We place a secondary link beside our current translation, which links to Strato's work.

At this point I have permission to use his translations, but of course I'm going to credit them. What do you guys think?

Post by **Kinny Riddle** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:07 am

While I would say my indirect translation contains "inaccuracies" all over due to things being lost in the initial translation, but calling it "wrong" is a bit too strong. lol

Besides, instead of a literal sentence by sentence translation, I went for a translation that best conveys the meaning of the sentence.

I must admit it would hurt to see my hard work being replaced completely. I don't mind seeing it evolve slowly through various edits though, so how about bringing the best of both worlds and try and find a way to combine them? Maybe you could discuss with him to find out which places my translation have got wrong. I'll let you editors deal with that, since I've spent all my free time translating already.

Basically, as long as my signature remains within the DNA of the work, I think my ego won't be so damaged, lol.

velocity7 · Post by **velocity7** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:09 pm

I should mention that Cruzz did talk to me on occassion before re: this sort of problem... it would be extremely hard (if not impossible) to try to read through the Japanese text merely to find inaccuracies in the Chinese translation of the novel.

What I can do is make a secondary link beside each chapter Strato has translated, then have a call to Editors to look at both and come up with a very good interpretation of the novel contents based on both of the materials. How does that sound?

onizuka-gto · Post by **onizuka-gto** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:37 pm

well, In my opinion I don't see anything "wrong" in the way we are doing right now, probably because we are tailoring ours to be more comfortable for native English readers.

In that sense, we have already agreed that we were not going to be so "strict" in the directions of the translation or the editing in respect to the original.

But that's not to say we should ignore the more "correct" translations, but at the same time nor do I want us to start replacing all our scripts simply because we can.

A link to strato's version, sounds logical, that is, if he approves of us linking to his site.

After all, we are not so arrogant to restrict Haruhi fans to just our own version.

In the end, I would like to keep our version, and like Kinny mentioned, if the script eventually evolve to become more similiar to the more "correct" version, so be it. I just do not want to see sudden changes, that'll result in an "Edit War" simply because the altered line, word, paragraph did not comform to the "correct" version.

Simply put, this will always be a "Baka-Tsuki" version, that will always place the pirority of a smooth, fluent and ultimately enjoyable English translation.

Strato's might have translated the text of the Haruhi Series "correctly".

But I like to think that we have translated the spirit of the Haruhi Series for the English readers "correctly".

(^^*)V

velocity7 · Post by **velocity7** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:00 pm

For the moment I've posted a link to Strato's translation on the main page.

Obviously, for reasons relating to avoiding an Edit War, editors should be on the lookout for anyone who feels they're God and decides to replace Kinny Riddle's translation completely for no reason whatsoever.

In the interest of having a good translation, I'd like to see an incorporation of some of the details that have been missed as a result of the Chinese translation. Obviously though the narrative is still based on Kinny Riddle's work, but if anything was missed or not properly said, they should all be fixed.

Let's try not to have ego get in the way of things otherwise we may end up being stuck on this issue. ^^;

Should I post Strato's translation on our Wiki as well (e.g., actually posting the text as opposed to posting just a link to his translation)?

onizuka-gto · Post by **onizuka-gto** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:45 pm

In regards of posting Strato's version on the Wiki would be in us endorsing two versions which will in my opinion, be confusing. Even if we explicitly explain why we have a second script, not to mention logistics of us having to create additional pages to compliment each existing chapters, if we were to "correctly" organise the wiki efficiently.

However I suggest, we compromise in that if certain Editors or contributors feel that certain words or/and sentences in the Strato's script should be made aware to our readers, then they should do so by either linking directly to the strato's source, or they should copy the item of interest into the corrosponding chapters talk page, along with the other miscellaneous information that are of interested to that chapter, and link or mark the certain area of interest so that readers will be able to understand why they felt they should be aware of the more "correct" translation.

Post by **thelastguardian** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:43 pm

Busy summer classes...sorry about the late reply

I actually read Strato's translated chapters a few weeks ago. He has been doing the translation close to a month now.

I don't know what he means by "wrong". He probably read the prologue I translated and thought "this is so incorrect". Well I translated the chapters literally, of course my version will vary a bit compared to the original Japanese novels. I do think, however, that the general "spirit" of the story is intact.

Anyway I don't want to get into a flame war over such trivial matter ;)

/Back to econ....

Strato · Post by **Strato** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:44 am

First of all, velocity7's the one who came on IRC and asked me for either help or permission to post my translation. I was never planning on attacking your translation, your people came to me. I declined because I just don't like the work being done.
As far as your comments go, I fail to see how your translation is more tailored for English readers. (i.e. 'Save the world by overloading it with fun.' Remote Island means something in English. Lone Island doesn't. And using Japanese name structure when every official piece of merchandise lists the title as Haruhi Suzumiya.) Maybe you aren't American so your concept of English isn't quite the same, but the phrases I've been shown aren't exactly stellar writing. And I'm guessing that incorrect tense, tone, inconsistent speaking style, and absent, added, or misplaced adjectives/modifiers will be argued off as insignificant, so I'll list a few of the objective errors I've been told of, most of which I assume are from the Chinese translation.

Book 1

Putting "moe" with a note once, then translating it into different words in different instances makes very little sense. And definitely doesn't help the "more tailored for English readers" argument.

"Haruhi, you idiot, can't you grope your own breasts!?" - I think the mistake here is self-explanatory.

"I'm sorry, I just couldn't dredge up any resistance." - Not what Kyon says.

"Even if you didn't think at all, it wouldn't make much of a difference." - Kyon's talking about Haruhi thinking about things better left alone.

"No comment" for Mikuru's phrase. Apparently fixed after someone watched episode 5. Should have picked it up in episode 4.

"Eh......Oh no, I just......T...that's right! We still haven't......What should I do?" - This would explain the various misunderstandings that have cropped up. The "we still haven't" implies something that is not supposed to be implied.

"I used to wear this often. Now I definitely wouldn't dare to wear this." - The 'yoku' here doesn't mean often, but I assume that's a mistake in the Chinese translation.

Island

"He said I reeked of booze just as much as Haruhi, but since I don't remember anything, I pretended not to hear that, and refused to remember that such a thing happened." - Should mention that Haruhi and Kyon did something embarrassing after getting drunk.

"I looked at Koizumi, who was like a defender trying to stop what seemed like a great goal near the end of a soccer match when the scores are even after extra time, and said without hesitation," - The analogy is referring to Kyon. This one was only brought to my attention since a contrasting analogy was used one line above on Koizumi. From what I hear, there are at least a few of these modifier issues.

"At the same time, this is also the best way to stop Haruhi from getting too bored and coming up with any funny ideas." Not sure how the last line of a chapter got screwed up from Japanese to Chinese, but this isn't for preventing Haruhi from getting funny ideas, but for preventing any abnormal phenomena from happening.

Sagittarius

"There are no ifs in history; even though we're now evenly matched in the number of fleets, we'll still lose." - Misses the point of leading in with "no ifs in history." Should refer to there are no ifs, but if you could rerun the same battle scenario with equal numbers, etc..

"Or maybe you think your four computers aren't enough to buy Nagato-san?" - She's offering Yuki because the current deal is four computers to one.

That's just a few I recalled being mentioned by various people. And these are just some of the more obvious ones.

I may sound egotistical, but seeing as how I coined SOS Brigade, among other things, I happen to be confident when it comes to translation.

And to thelastguardian, I wouldn't call the prologue wrong. My issue isn't with literal or non-literal, but an inaccurate portrayal of characters and just plain mistakes. And the inaccurate portrayal is engrained in the wording and style of writing, which isn't conveying Tanigawa's tone. And if you're only concerned with the "spirit of the story," that's not a translation, that's a plot summary. And a disrespect to the author's writing.

onizuka-gto · Post by **onizuka-gto** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:53 pm

well...I thank you for your...."constructive criticism", Strato.

However you are right, some of our Editors & Translators are not American, but British/Commonwealth and therefore only speak correct English, which would explain why some of our scripts do not reach your standard of "stellar writing". However as our founder and the majority of readers & Contributors are American we have endeavor to keep it within the familiar American English Standard, and because this is a Wiki we will always welcome help from all our readers to make it better for the next, and it is to be expect that the script will evolve over time.

But we do not see it as a bad thing, and I welcome all the advantages & disadvantages of our Open Project.

I'am not a translator and nor do I have the pretence nor experience with the original literature so I will refrain from comments regarding your dispute with the actual wording of the text or the instances of the script which you claim misinterpret the personalities of the characters & Author.

nonetheless anyone who does, may I remind you to keep your replies constructive & civil.

Sincerely,

Onizuka-GTO

cotton · Post by **cotton** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:08 pm

While I can't speak to the accuracy of the translations, I do know good writing when I see it. I've only read the first volume, but I think Kinny Riddle has done a terrific job.

It flows well, is easy to understand, has a consistent tone and most surprisngly of all, is pretty darn funny. While Kinny obviously can't take credit for all of the humour, I do know that wit is one of the hardest things to translate well.

The style is clever and literate, no mean feat for an amateur translation. If the other fellow thinks he can do better, more power to him, but I'm not holding my breath.

velocity7 · Post by **velocity7** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:11 pm

Might I give a reminder that this wiki translation effort is supposed to be a collaborative work, and thus if there are any problems that one finds on the wiki edits should be made. That's what a wiki is for.

Strato · Post by **Strato** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:21 pm

velocity7 linked me to this thread. I assumed I was supposed to respond since there were hints dropped that I was making baseless accusations. I'm simply defending myself.

Not sure how pointing out errors isn't "constructive criticism." I didn't touch on any wording or tone or tense issues. Those are plain mistakes. I know Japanese, Chinese, and English. So those are mistakes. And as someone who's read these books dozens of times over the past year, I find misportrayal of characters significant so I probably came off a bit harsh on that.

As far as velocity7's comment about wiki editing goes, you're the one who mentioned above that going through the novel to check for accuracy is about as much effort as it takes to translate it. And

And if you doubt I can "do better," pay more attention the next time you watch a fansub. And yes, I'm randomly sprinkling in credentials because that seems to attract more attention than constructing an argument.

In any case, I thought my opinion was wanted since I was asked for permission to post my translation and linked to this thread. Obviously I was wrong. So I won't be bothering you again.

onizuka-gto · Post by **onizuka-gto** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:55 pm

Your comments and opinions are always welcome here Strato's, and I thank you for taking your time to do so.

My warning was to other people who might of taken your post negatively, I apologise if you felt the I was referring to you, or that i was in any way hinting that your accusations were "baseless" and in the process attacking you personally.

Simply put, we at Baka-Tsuki Project know we are not perfect, and will always attempt to make sure we will improve. At this moment in time, TLG felt that a open but limited quasi-democratic system is the best approach.

It is in my opinion that there is is no ultimate correct way to approach this, as it can be interpreted many way, which means that we should always attempt to look from all sides so that we will evolve to the best format that will suit our group, and our readers.

We cannot please everyone all of the time, but we can, to those who are pleased.

Sincerely,

Onizuka-GTO