The Kyon Theory

[Rectifier]

If Tsuruya pairs with Koizumi, all life will shudder (or quiver) a few times and then die painfully as a result.

[Kaisos Erranon]

If Tsuruya pairs with Koizumi, all life will shudder (or quiver) a few times and then die painfully as a result.

Lies! Filthy, filthy, horrible lies!

[AuraTwilight]

The hell? My post is gone. Whatever.

1) Koizumi may be a Magnificent Itsuki, but he isn't evil.
2) That's true... but Taniguchi works better as a Sunohara-esque character, in my opinion.

1) Koizumi is totally evil. Them Thar Evil Gaes are ruinin' Amurica. He's Kyoko's perfect match. Plus, can't you imagine those two discussing philosophy in the middle of getting hot and heavy?
2) Sunohara needs love too. :l

Damn it, Kaisos! That doujin is dangerously close to making me a Tsuruya x Koizumi shipper...I can't let that happen, though. Who would Mikuru pair with?
It does make strange sense though, since they are both part of the organization...We don't really know what Koizumi or Tsuruya are thinking, so they might very well be ogling each other, for all we know. Then again, Tsuruya might very well have her eye on *insert someone suitably ridiculous/distasteful*, for all we know. I only said Kunikida because people seem to be pairing their genderbent versions for some mysterious reason....
You have to admit that comic makes Tsuruya x Koizumi seem much cuter than Tsuruya x Taniguchi or Koizumi x Kyoko. You've got to counter somehow, AuraTwilight!

See above.

I'm sure she thinks it's for Young Mikuru's own good. I just think Young Mikuru might disagree. I happen to like this scenario because it has the whole disagreeing with your future self aspect to it.

I don't like it, because Mikuru can technically never defeat her faction then like the other two would ever so epically do so.

[shichinanatsu]

yare yare.. i don't show up for a few days and look how derailed the thread is.. anyway, though i'd love to add to the doujin thread, i verily don't have the sauces.. erm, sources to contribute anything substantial. damn dial-up speeds..

i did say that there may be others beside haruhi who are pseudo-posthuman, but for them that status could be attributed to their relation to haruhi; with the probable exception of glasses kid (in the absence of haruhi-trapping) everyone else was involved 3-4ya in one way or another. however, imho there is but one person in haruhi-verse who's very much important but hardly qualifies as a posthuman, and that would be kyon.

from the structure of the novels, it could be easily said that kyon might be reminiscing everything that's written, and his preference of reminiscing anachronistically may have something to do with how the story ends. with that in mind, you could also say that he is the one other existence that transcends reality as dictated by haruhi, i.e. haruhi has absolutely nothing over him as compared to everything and everyone else.

from the way the stories are written, if you wink real hard you might come to a conclusion that author-san projects himself onto kyon, or that he himself is kyon.. i want to believe in that, but seeing that it would be 'breaking the 4th window', there is still one other explanation left. its probably been said here already, but i'll say it still for emphasis. kyon might be a Typhoid Mary, someone who can immerse oneself in something and not be affected by that something, and through the motions affect others and yet be unaffected still.

again, we don't know what circumstances kyon were in 3-4ya when haruhi tampered with reality. it was only in the present of haruhi-verse that kyon got himself involved with haruhi, and with aliens, time travelers, and espers. continuing to the failed attempt at creating another reality, kyon was the only other person with haruhi in that pre-World space. you might say that haruhi willed kyon to be there, but equally possible is that haruhi cannot will kyon into absence from that world. (i know its semantics, but there's an important difference in what i said)

it is haruhi's story, but kyon holds the title of storyteller. his being created as such aside, all pertinent events in haruhiverse happened in his presence. i know it sounds downright absurd, but if we're talking holy trinity of catholicism, kyon's Omnipresence, haruhi's Omnipotence, and tsuruya-san's Omniscience (for reasons i might or might not say here, depends if think something up for or against this..)

to relate to the derailed thread.. i did remember reading somewhere in here before that tsuruya-koizumi would be a parody, albeit 'tame' version, of haruhi-kyon - that is, if you can imagine a smiling GAR Itsuki koizumi as he is dragged around by tsuruya-san.. though i think koizumi's too GAR to ever end up in a decent relationship with anyone in haruhiverse, besides, tsuruya-san's too splendid to end up with him, a lot of fans will go on an outrage if that happened.

hmm.. of the 3 weird members of the SOS Dan, only yuki has seriously defied her boss. its probably a far shot, but mikuru and koizumi might also just do same, albeit in toned-down circumstances that will not result in something as intense as v4. borrowing on author-san's usage of 'shiawase no aoi tori', yuki's the Present, mikuru's the Future, koizumi's the Past. the moment yuki decided she wanted to live the normal life - and include kyon in the process - and when kyon convinced her to return to reality, she willed herself to live in the present. that is, live without thinking of whatever the future might bring, as the future will become the present, given enough time.

.. gonna go off and brew some more, thoughts are more worried about how licensed SHnY light novels will turn out..

[cicero225]

1) Koizumi is totally evil. Them Thar Evil Gaes are ruinin' Amurica. He's Kyoko's perfect match. Plus, can't you imagine those two discussing philosophy in the middle of getting hot and heavy?

And with esper powers too....

I don't like it, because Mikuru can technically never defeat her faction then like the other two would ever so epically do so.

Well, if the presence of Haruhi really allows temporal inconsistency then she could. Of course, destroying Mikuru's future is an end-of-series level type plot event.

Spoiler! :

yare yare.. i don't show up for a few days and look how derailed the thread is.. anyway, though i'd love to add to the doujin thread, i verily don't have the sauces.. erm, sources to contribute anything substantial. damn dial-up speeds..

i did say that there may be others beside haruhi who are pseudo-posthuman, but for them that status could be attributed to their relation to haruhi; with the probable exception of glasses kid (in the absence of haruhi-trapping) everyone else was involved 3-4ya in one way or another. however, imho there is but one person in haruhi-verse who's very much important but hardly qualifies as a posthuman, and that would be kyon.

from the structure of the novels, it could be easily said that kyon might be reminiscing everything that's written, and his preference of reminiscing anachronistically may have something to do with how the story ends. with that in mind, you could also say that he is the one other existence that transcends reality as dictated by haruhi, i.e. haruhi has absolutely nothing over him as compared to everything and everyone else.

from the way the stories are written, if you wink real hard you might come to a conclusion that author-san projects himself onto kyon, or that he himself is kyon.. i want to believe in that, but seeing that it would be 'breaking the 4th window', there is still one other explanation left. its probably been said here already, but i'll say it still for emphasis. kyon might be a Typhoid Mary, someone who can immerse oneself in something and not be affected by that something, and through the motions affect others and yet be unaffected still.

again, we don't know what circumstances kyon were in 3-4ya when haruhi tampered with reality. it was only in the present of haruhi-verse that kyon got himself involved with haruhi, and with aliens, time travelers, and espers. continuing to the failed attempt at creating another reality, kyon was the only other person with haruhi in that pre-World space. you might say that haruhi willed kyon to be there, but equally possible is that haruhi cannot will kyon into absence from that world. (i know its semantics, but there's an important difference in what i said)

it is haruhi's story, but kyon holds the title of storyteller. his being created as such aside, all pertinent events in haruhiverse happened in his presence. i know it sounds downright absurd, but if we're talking holy trinity of catholicism, kyon's Omnipresence, haruhi's Omnipotence, and tsuruya-san's Omniscience (for reasons i might or might not say here, depends if think something up for or against this..)

to relate to the derailed thread.. i did remember reading somewhere in here before that tsuruya-koizumi would be a parody, albeit 'tame' version, of haruhi-kyon - that is, if you can imagine a smiling GAR Itsuki koizumi as he is dragged around by tsuruya-san.. though i think koizumi's too GAR to ever end up in a decent relationship with anyone in haruhiverse, besides, tsuruya-san's too splendid to end up with him, a lot of fans will go on an outrage if that happened.

hmm.. of the 3 weird members of the SOS Dan, only yuki has seriously defied her boss. its probably a far shot, but mikuru and koizumi might also just do same, albeit in toned-down circumstances that will not result in something as intense as v4. borrowing on author-san's usage of 'shiawase no aoi tori', yuki's the Present, mikuru's the Future, koizumi's the Past. the moment yuki decided she wanted to live the normal life - and include kyon in the process - and when kyon convinced her to return to reality, she willed herself to live in the present. that is, live without thinking of whatever the future might bring, as the future will become the present, given enough time.

.. gonna go off and brew some more, thoughts are more worried about how licensed SHnY light novels will turn out..

Yay, something vaguely resembling the Kyon Theory. Now we can say this is on topic.

You're saying Kyon isn't posthuman, yet has the ability to be untouched by haruhi-derived events and even part of a trinity. Being a counter to Haruhi is a reasonable argument for posthuman status. Heck he's part of a trinity with Tsuruya; that's got to be something. (If Tsuruya were really important enough to be part of a trinity, that would signal a major role for her, even that's just as the laughing girl who sees everything through her organization).
Right now what you're saying is too incoherent for me to say more than that you seem to have a lot of ideas...think them over and brew them into something deep, organized and with evidence and you may be on to something...(As an observation that may be useful, you have two trinities: One of godlike abilities and one of Time. They don't share members. There may be something important and dichotomous there...)

Sidenote/Crazy Theory 1: Someone once said (on a different forum) that the Organization may be secretly government-backed. There isn't any hard evidence for this, but a lot of circumstantial evidence. Tsuruya is from a rich, powerful family who funds them. That sounds government-ish. There seems to be a lot more "meat" to the organization (resources, ability to use private islands, perform background checks, acquire taxicabs, obtain police support (Vol 7), etc) than could be provided by ~10 random espers. If Koizumi's words and example are any indication, they're not especially likely to be rich or have spy skills, yet Mori, Arakawa, and Koizumi are very good at faking roles, Arakawa can conduct car chases with exceptional skill, and Mori certainly seems like she has a lot of experience with these kinds of things. They may very well be trained for this kind of thing.

Of course, none of this really proves anything and there are other ways of explaining these, but it is intriguing. Personally, I'll admit that I just like the idea of shadowy government conspiracy groups. It'd be pretty cool if there were people watching (i.e. stalking) the SOS-dan all the time without their knowledge with hidden cameras and stuff. Plus, if "the government" (i.e. Japan, UN, secret cabal, etc.) were smart enough to key in on Haruhi as being the person to watch and to try to stop from destroying the universe, it would make me feel better about the competence of "the government" (even though this would be a government in a fictional story...).

Crazy Theory 2: Taniguchi is a superspy! (Okay, maybe not. That was a joke. What's disturbing is that I can actually find evidence for this. I'm beginning to think that I can find evidence for anything....)

[fiendmaw]

Here is raw,veridical proof that our ladies-man and good friend Kyon is in fact,a slider:

untitled.JPG

You can obviously see that he's not quite content with the script and the pacing of the Tora Dora manga(he just crashed there yesterday,actually).There you have it folks,Kyon is actually a slider.

[TheGiftedMonkey]

Lmao Awesome find.

[AuraTwilight]

I think the amazingness of that post made me have a sexual experience.

[Kaisos Erranon]

Okay, that was freaking awesome.

[Rectifier]

Thanks for wasting 10 seconds of my life, and then another 10 seconds for making me post about it.

[ShadowZeroHeart]

So soon Taiga and Ruuji will meet a new char called Haruhi who is going to drag them into some mysterious SOS club? LOLZ
This is beginning to sound like that MM novel someone mentioned... weird club...

Anyways, i support the Kyon theory... and no i did not read through the 49 pages to say what i am saying now... anyways... these are my reasonings...

1) book9, they mentioned that if Kyon joins the other opposing club, then they are confident to strip Haruhi of her Godly powers. This means that the decision lies with Kyon. Of course, this is the weakest of proof.

2) Actually, the whole point of an opposing group of aliens, future people and espers itself is saying "HEY! Kyon is everything!" being the simplest case... cause the opposing group CANNOT exist unless it is in the pretext that one, they are a group of espers, future people and alien, which all readers know, and two, there must be the existence of espers, future people, and aliens... IF haruhi knows these, then it is not possible the world is so peaceful. Thus, this means that someone else must be behind it? and i would say Kyon.

3) Remember when Yuki went berserk(man she was cute then... but the normal yuki is good too...)? Anyways, the only one not affected is Kyon really...? Even Haruhi was changed, or replaced... IF she is the God, it does not make sense that Kyon is unaffected while Haruhi is...

4) Kyon is dragged into all situations... I believe that Haruhi alone does not cause any trouble, or else everyone would be busy like mad. for example, she might just want a girl on the street to transform into a robot for all we know, but nothing weird happened unless they are together.

5) All abnormal parties declared their existence to Kyon... I believe that this is, an important part, which is where my current belief is, as my conclusion...

Conclusion: Haruhi is MADE GOD, by Kyon, who unknowingly possesses the power of a God, or the ability to choose/create one. The reason that they have to declare their existence lies in the following reasons:

1) so they continue to exist, since if Kyon stops believing for an instant that they do not exist, then they will not
2) so that they can lie to him making him not realize his own powers, and thus Haruhi is given the ability to do as she wishes
3) if Kyon knows of his own powers, and the existence of aliens espers and such, it must mean that he is likely to bring about the future they claim Haruhi can bring, a great change with an increase of espers, aliens, future ppl etc...

And as Itsuki mentioned before, they never knew when the world really began, it may even be five seconds ago...
I believe, that THEIR world, began when Kyon met Haruhi.
He did not believe that anything that strange like espers, aliens and such could exist. But hearing Haruhi's speech, he, for a second, hoped that it is true, consciously or sub-consciously. And to top it off, Haruhi's actions would make him HOPE that she will indeed find these types of people. Thus they appeared. So this is my belief, about the Kyon theory... comments?

[fiendmaw]

1) book9, they mentioned that if Kyon joins the other opposing club, then they are confident to strip Haruhi of her Godly powers. This means that the decision lies with Kyon. Of course, this is the weakest of proof.

I don't think they actually said that,I will have to re-read the novel because nothing comes to mind.Anyway it's not about stripping Haruhi's power,it's about them claiming Sasaki was the previous owner of 'godlike' powers.

2) Actually, the whole point of an opposing group of aliens, future people and espers itself is saying "HEY! Kyon is everything!" being the simplest case... cause the opposing group CANNOT exist unless it is in the pretext that one, they are a group of espers, future people and alien, which all readers know, and two, there must be the existence of espers, future people, and aliens... IF haruhi knows these, then it is not possible the world is so peaceful. Thus, this means that someone else must be behind it? and i would say Kyon.

Well,for starters,the world is so peaceful because they make great efforts for Haruhi NOT to know,and about your second condition,Haruhi believes they exist,but lately,as she is becoming more normal,her faith in them seems to weaken,thus resulting in Itsuki loosing powers(this is what I remember...I don't know if that's really true...).

3) Remember when Yuki went berserk(man she was cute then... but the normal yuki is good too...)? Anyways, the only one not affected is Kyon really...? Even Haruhi was changed, or replaced... IF she is the God, it does not make sense that Kyon is unaffected while Haruhi is...

All I remember is that Yuki somehow 'stole' Haruhi's power(citation needed )and recreated the world,or created a different world.Anyway,this is my opinion,Yuki chose Kyon because he was the only one qualified to decide(being normal,etc.)which of the worlds was better:The paranormal Haruhiverse,or the normal Yukiverse.No one else could have made this choice,because no one else would have even considered the Yukiverse.

4) Kyon is dragged into all situations... I believe that Haruhi alone does not cause any trouble, or else everyone would be busy like mad. for example, she might just want a girl on the street to transform into a robot for all we know, but nothing weird happened unless they are together.

Maybe this is not a constructive comment,but the only point of view we have in the novel is Kyon,thus,ofcourse everything happens when he's around,because if he isn't,he couldn't possibly know...and neither can we.(Bad english >_>)

5) All abnormal parties declared their existence to Kyon... I believe that this is, an important part, which is where my current belief is, as my conclusion...

Well,actually he is not as powerless as one would think,he said so himself,he has to power to switch Haruhi to berserk mode,and possibly the one that receives her affection.

Enough commenting for today.I'll be back

[ShadowZeroHeart]

The reason the other party approached Kyon because they believe he holds some key.

Though Haruhi may believe they exist, she cannot expect a group just opposite of her club to exist unless it is in the pretext it is made specially against her club, which she does not know that consists of aliens and espers and future people.

Kyon is given the choice... why? it doesnt make sense that he is that special...

Yes indeed, since we only have his point of view. This can be proven by Itsuki's busy job of taking care of Haruhi dimensions =X
But in that case, it is weird that she never spot anything weird anytime before... unless the different organisations really did such a perfect job of covering every single one of her "blunders" LOLz!

He does not hold the power to switch Haruhi to berserk mode, he has the trump card of "Telling Haruhi that there are aliens espers future people", and cause her views and beliefs to change, changing the world, which is dangerous to anyone and everyone. That, is the result of the parties declaring their existences. And yes, i think Kyon is receiving her affection, perhaps? Possibly cause he is the only one to actually put up with her madness?

That is why i think sub-consciously he supports her... And wishing that her beliefs are right, thus everything is acting in her will.

[shichinanatsu]

hehe, didn't think we'd be having new heads b4 the airing of season 2. anyway..

everyone in here knows the entirety of haruhiverse - that is, from 3ya tanabata, then to 1st yr at north high (v1 to v8). that being said, we still do not know of haruhi's remaining 2 yrs of middle school (1st part of missing equation), and kyon's 3 yrs in middle school (2nd half, probably the more important part..)

the latter was only hinted at in v9, and is PROBABLY the only remaining influential plot line in need of conclusion. why so? what does it take for a believer to give up his beliefs? the first underlying message of SHnY was explaining why people gain weird beliefs - and live by them - in the first place. hence it would be construed an attempt at completion to follow through with an antithesis to the first theme. in calculus, infinite limits only hold true if they apply to both positive AND negative infinity, try and mess with the idea a bit (that is, if you have working knowledge of calculus..)

middle school kyon was somehow portrayed as haruhi-like in his belief of the supernatural, with sasaki playing a somewhat-stylized version of skeptic. what changed kyon in the span of a year? how much of it could be attributed to sasaki? of other consequence would be the details of their 'relationship', though this would mostly be of import to haruhi's perception of the 2.

kyon tells us that he gave up on his beliefs before he entered high school, yet his role of skeptic was only defined the moment he met haruhi. and through the length of a year, we have seen haruhi normalizing thanks to kyon, without kyon changing. (as evidenced by sasaki when they meet again)

imho, weirdness: middle school haruhi > high school haruhi > m.s. kyon > h.s. kyon (i have yet to place sasaki, need a little help here..)

i would guess it all boils down to this.. kindred spirits (sasaki and kyon), or yin and yang (haruhi and kyon)?

[ShadowZeroHeart]

kyon tells us that he gave up on his beliefs before he entered high school, yet his role of skeptic was only defined the moment he met haruhi. and through the length of a year, we have seen haruhi normalizing thanks to kyon, without kyon changing. (as evidenced by sasaki when they meet again)

imho, weirdness: middle school haruhi > high school haruhi > m.s. kyon > h.s. kyon (i have yet to place sasaki, need a little help here..)

i would guess it all boils down to this.. kindred spirits (sasaki and kyon), or yin and yang (haruhi and kyon)?

Without kyon changing? ~.~ i think he changed a lot... he didnt believe at first, then he believes, eventually he approves, and helps them even ~.~
Haruhi is normalizing... not really, i think she is just putting up a certain act to hide her true self since the start, though i cannot be sure, but kyon is able to peek within that shell into her true self, thus people may think she is changing... but i think she is still the same, except she feels closer to Kyon maybe?