ばか！バカ！　馬鹿ー月！

Like what? It's not the word itself, but the context in which is it used.

who's the whore? 'coz i feel i'm the one you guys are referring to, and i'm not sure how to respond..

Well, you smell it, you dealt it.

.. i don't know anymore..

I don't think Yuki was involved in the planning of Asakura's actions in Melancholy IV, or Kimidori's in Mysterique Sign, or even informed about them - they all belong to different ISDE factions - so she has to guess about their motives and do the best she can. (Plus, both of these events took place before EE, which changed Yuki)

But Asakura's actions don't make sense if her plan was to kill Kyon, however they're very effective in changing Kyon's worldview and pulling Haruhi out of her depression. That doesn't necessarily mean she planned the events of Melancholy VI, but she prevented Haruhi from trying to switch to another world in Melancholy IV.

I think it makes sense if the ISDE factions created their interfaces with psychological profiles that match their faction's belief and the assignment: Yuki's profile makes her an observer who rarely intervenes, while Asakura's makes her the class representative, ideal for any activity. Except, in Melancholy IV, not even Asakura could reach Haruhi in the normal way.

Fushichou, is that really necessary? Really?

Also, I doubt Ryoko really planned anything. She was most certainly trying to kill Kyon, and the whole thing was way too convincing to be choreographed by Ryoko and Yuki; it requires them to have an understanding of human pathos they should not have at this point.

It is very necessary.

@Aura: yuki may not have sufficient insight on the human condition, but the same isn't quite true with ryouko. for whatever reason the ISDE and Tanigawa-sensei had, ryouko (and emiri..) has been on Earth longer than yuki's 3-year stint, meaning at the beginning of SHnY ryouko's more naturalized than yuki. in that view maybe the only question should be, how come yuki's the lead and ryouko's the back-up? because yuki's more on the 'weird' side than ryouko, and would thus be a bigger target on haruhi's radar?

problem is, we know absolutely nothing about pre-SHnY ryouko, just the fact that she transferred to North High from somewhere else. the only slightly off-canon info we have about her psyche would be her char album, which doesn't really help matters much either.

@Fushichou: i wouldn't really know whatever i did that seemed offensive to some people if you don't tell me, Fushichou; sorry if i be dense on stuff like this from time to time. i strive for a maximum of online social civility - not just here but everywhere i go - so if someone tells me i said/did something out of line, i make it a point to ask, then stop and think about it. i don't think its too much of me to ask you to enlighten an occasional baka..

I think if you didn't get it, then I won't bother...

.. had to ask..

I would think the ISDE simply observed humans first, then copied those with behaviors they needed for their humanoid interfaces.

As for their knowledge about humanity, the main wing of the ISDE, believing in observation but not action, kept Yuki on standby mode in her apartment for three years. The more extroverted Ryoko, on the other hand, was allowed by her superiors to mingle with the natives. Same for Emiri to a lesser extent due to her original's shyness.

yuki may not have sufficient insight on the human condition, but the same isn't quite true with ryouko. for whatever reason the ISDE and Tanigawa-sensei had, ryouko (and emiri..) has been on Earth longer than yuki's 3-year stint, meaning at the beginning of SHnY ryouko's more naturalized than yuki. in that view maybe the only question should be, how come yuki's the lead and ryouko's the back-up? because yuki's more on the 'weird' side than ryouko, and would thus be a bigger target on haruhi's radar?

Being there for more than 3-years is impossible, because of Haruhi. I always theorized that Ryoko isn't actually more human, she's just asking. She's nice, and pleasant, and perfect, but that's all she is. Wearing a constant smile doesn't make you more human or informed than being Yuki's quiet and reserved, it just means it's easier for her to trick us. The Interfaces are basically Anthropologists.

Furthermore, perhaps originally Ryoko was the leader and Yuki, being the reserve, stayed out of the way and was quiet and reserved. But then Haruhi decided that quiet moe archetypes were better, and the two had to be switched around. By the time Yuki was pulled in by Haruhi, it would be too late for either of them to change their established personalities, so they had to keep it up.

problem is, we know absolutely nothing about pre-SHnY ryouko, just the fact that she transferred to North High from somewhere else. the only slightly off-canon info we have about her psyche would be her char album, which doesn't really help matters much either.

Exactly.

AuraTwilight wrote:Being there for more than 3-years is impossible, because of Haruhi. I always theorized that Ryoko isn't actually more human, she's just asking. She's nice, and pleasant, and perfect, but that's all she is. Wearing a constant smile doesn't make you more human or informed than being Yuki's quiet and reserved, it just means it's easier for her to trick us. The Interfaces are basically Anthropologists.

Furthermore, perhaps originally Ryoko was the leader and Yuki, being the reserve, stayed out of the way and was quiet and reserved. But then Haruhi decided that quiet moe archetypes were better, and the two had to be switched around. By the time Yuki was pulled in by Haruhi, it would be too late for either of them to change their established personalities, so they had to keep it up.

its seems you assume the IDSE only thought of sending interfaces to japan ever since haruhi's advent. but didn't that only apply to the time travelers (mikuru) and the espers (koizumi)? i mean, accdg to yuki's spiel back in SHnY, the IDSE had long been observing humanity for its (our..) ability to seek knowledge. haruhi's advent - and her ability to seemingly create data from scratch - only served to raise humanity's importance level in their galaxy-wide observation, leading to the creation of nagato yuki for the sole purpose of observing suzumiya haruhi.

Yea, but on the other hand, the Interfaces really only ever talk about three years ago, implying that was when they all were created. The Thought Entity probably has the ability to observe under it's own power, but Yuki explicitly states that the Interfaces were created to be a bridge so the Entity and humans could interact. Observation isn't their only purpose, it's just their main one.

Even if Haruhi had created the ISDE only 3 years ago, but then with memories older then 3 years, so maybe even with agents older than that...