Haruhi is great, thanks to all translators!

Jumpyshoes · Post by **Jumpyshoes** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:50 pm

Kaisos Erranon wrote:I would also like to thank the translators, and I really hope the Kunikida localizers never decide to license this wonderful series.

Actually, I do. After the patch is released. That way I can get both. Also, Key asks for a ridiculous large amount of money for license to their products, so don't expect this any time soon.

quigonkenny · Post by **quigonkenny** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:28 am

Frankly, I too hope they license it, only up to 8, without option for the later novels, and with a requirement to not license each new one (under similar restrictions) until its been out in Japan at least, oh...9 months ought to do it. That way, I get to have nice book-sized books to read and to look at and to prove that I'm better than illiterates with, hopefully with official translation (or at least clarification) support from Tanigawa himself (which is the one thing a fanlation is always going to suffer the lack of), and Baka-Tsuki is legally free to continue translating the new ones as they come out. As a bonus, the massive success of the novels will give Kadokawa Shoten equally massive clout when it comes time to license each new novel, and Tanigawa might get some well-deserved Rowling-level bank out of it.

HAL9000 · Post by **HAL9000** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:29 pm

That sounds like a good all-around compromise. Although I want some hardcover editions in there as well.

Kaisos Erranon · Post by **Kaisos Erranon** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:59 pm

quigonkenny wrote:Frankly, I too hope they license it, only up to 8, without option for the later novels, and with a requirement to not license each new one (under similar restrictions) until its been out in Japan at least, oh...9 months ought to do it. That way, I get to have nice book-sized books to read and to look at and to prove that I'm better than illiterates with, hopefully with official translation (or at least clarification) support from Tanigawa himself (which is the one thing a fanlation is always going to suffer the lack of), and Baka-Tsuki is legally free to continue translating the new ones as they come out. As a bonus, the massive success of the novels will give Kadokawa Shoten equally massive clout when it comes time to license each new novel, and Tanigawa might get some well-deserved Rowling-level bank out of it.

That. Would be. Awesome.

IrishHaremOtaku · Post by **IrishHaremOtaku** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:51 am

If they license them all, and you abandon this, expect several terrorist attacks on your homes.

Screw internet shopping.........

quigonkenny · Post by **quigonkenny** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:11 pm

IrishHaremOtaku wrote:If they license them all, and you abandon this, expect several terrorist attacks on your homes.

Screw internet shopping.........

Frankly, as long as they only license it in the US, I don't think it's going to be too much of an issue. If I remember correctly, TLG isn't in the US (although I don't know if the servers are), and neither are a large number of the editors and almost all the translators, so if it does get licensed in the States, it'll be about as legal is it is right now, with a little personnel tweaking.

Still, it's up to the bossman, and I do believe I heard mentioned on the site when I first joined that if it gets licensed, he's closing up shop. Even if he isn't States-bound, that's a potential legal issue no one wants to get into, and it'd be pretty petty for anyone to hold it against him.

onizuka-gto · Post by **onizuka-gto** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:50 am

IrishHaremOtaku wrote:If they license them all, and you abandon this, expect several terrorist attacks on your homes.

Screw internet shopping.........

He means it! he's an Republican Irish!

*flees back to his armoured police LandRover*

Proto · Post by **Proto** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:46 am

What I don't understand is why would people want the fan translation to continue after the novels are licensed? Isn't the whole points of fansubs to create awareness in both the licensors and the customers of the existance of a potentially good series? Are we forgetting the original value of fansubs in place for 'free beer'???

Kaisos Erranon · Post by **Kaisos Erranon** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:11 am

Proto wrote:What I don't understand is why would people want the fan translation to continue after the novels are licensed? Isn't the whole points of fansubs to create awareness in both the licensors and the customers of the existance of a potentially good series? Are we forgetting the original value of fansubs in place for 'free beer'???

Because licensors and dubbers are idiots.

They don't seem to know their target audience, translate things incorrectly, and in general rape the original material.

If they use the same translation for the Haruhi novels as they did for the anime, I will CRY. This is an excellent series, and hearing "Miss Asahina" every five minutes is just painful.

However, if they keep true to the originals (i.e. Bandai doesn't translate the novels) I won't care.

ainsoph9 · Post by **ainsoph9** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:27 am

I agree with Kaisos. I hate it when licensors translate the honorifics and the like. Leave them there and put a page or screen that you can skip in there instead that explains things properly.

Proto · Post by **Proto** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:40 am

In that case I think the problem lies in you, who are in the incorrect target audience and thus expecting the wrong things and not in the translators. American licensors don't translate things for us, a bunch of otaku's wannabe's with a makeshift Japanese vocabulary, but for a broader audience who might not be into Japanese jargon as much as us but despite that would enjoy the series as much. Including Japanese honorifics often puts off people who would otherwise have bought the series, and only catters to a very nichè audience...

... which by itself doesn't warrants that a fansub group would continue translating a licensed series. There are thousand of novels out there that are in dire need of someone paying attention to them, and there is a very limited group of people that are up to the task to diverge attention to a series that already got enough attention.

Kaisos Erranon · Post by **Kaisos Erranon** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:51 am

Proto wrote:In that case I think the problem lies in you, who are in the incorrect target audience and thus expecting the wrong things and not in the translators. American licensors don't translate things for us, a bunch of otaku's wannabe's a a makeshift Japanese vocabulary, but for a broader audience who might not be into Japanese jargon as much as us but despite that would enjoy the series as much. Including Japanese honorifics often puts off people who would otherwise have bought the series, and only catters to a very nichè audience...

... which by itself doesn't warrants that a fansub group would continue translating a licensed series. There are thousand of novels out there that are in dire need of someone paying attention to them, and there is a very limited group of people that are up to the task to diverge attention to a series that already got enough attention.

The problem is that anime IS supposed to be for a niche audience, at least in the west. It's not intended to be for a broader audience. How many ordinary people who don't normally watch anime would have walked in to a video store, saw Haruhi, and thought "I'll buy this" if they haven't heard of it before?

Point is, translating things like honorifics so people who can't bother to look them up can understand them is simply the licensors trying to make more money.

If they can't make money by creating faithful translations, they shouldn't bother translating at all.

Proto · Post by **Proto** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:05 pm

Point is, translating things like honorifics so people who can't bother to look them up can understand them is simply the licensors trying to make more money.

If they can't make money by creating faithful translations, they shouldn't bother translating at all.

Last time I checked the most common economic model was to make the most money with the least effort. You can't really blame the licensors for following a formula that will buy them much more customers and will only anger the most extreme of the purists.

And in my view, saying that anime is for a nichè audience is not really something that should excuse a scripter from making a proper translation. Why is it so wrong to use the equivalent from your language over the Japanese equivalent? Isn't this all our own self suggestion that 'san' is better than 'miss'?

Kaisos Erranon · Post by **Kaisos Erranon** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:12 pm

Proto wrote:

Point is, translating things like honorifics so people who can't bother to look them up can understand them is simply the licensors trying to make more money.

If they can't make money by creating faithful translations, they shouldn't bother translating at all.
Last time I checked the most common economic model was to make the most money with the least effort. You can't really blame the licensors for following a formula that will buy them much more customers and will only anger the most extreme of the purists.

And in my view, saying that anime is for a nichè audience is not really something that should excuse a scripter from making a proper translation. Why is it so wrong to use the equivalent from your language over the Japanese equivalent? Isn't this all our own self suggestion that 'san' is better than 'miss'?

I'm... I'm not even going to bother arguing with you...

By the way "-san" and the like have no real equivalent in our language, like many things in Japanese. Any translation into English is not going to convey the full meaning of the word.

That is all.

Proto · Post by **Proto** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:49 pm

I'm... I'm not even going to bother arguing with you...

A shame really, since your thoughts are really close to really I used to think a while ago before I started studying linguistics theory, but if you don't want to continue discussing it's ok.

BTW, fighting against language inconsistencies is something that professional translators, heck, any translator has to do as part of their daily work. You cannot expect any two languages, even those who are lnguistically close, to be perfectly equivalent in all their senses, the translator must put some work forth so that the essence of the message is always translated, and that is the beauty itself of making a translation.

IMHO expecting the audience to have some previous knowledge is the easy way out for the translator, and the wrong economic model for the industry. It works for fansubs precisely because a fansub premise is being "by fans for fans", which is not the case of a profesional translation.

On a second read, I think I didn't make this other point clear. Why do I think cathering literate subs for an existing audience is a losing formula. Isn't this like accepting from the start that your market won't grow further than the already established fanbase, and that you aren't even making an effort to make it grow? Isn't it like leaving all your marketing efforts to the febble light of fansubbing? IMHO I can't see this working. Taking a look at the other side, and making more proper translations would make the title interest to other potential consumers, appease the not-literate-fansubs-pro fans, and only anger a very little group.

Don't misunderstand me though, from a very personal POV I prefer the more literal tranlations. As a translator in the training I only watch fansubs for the ocassional scene that I didn't understand because of the difficult lingo, and as such I prefer when I read word for word what did they mean since that helps me more in my study. However I have to be open enough to understand why the licensors choose otherwise