Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi:Volume1 Chapter2

References & Translators Notes

Douzo?

Just a little edit added between Kyon and Yuki's first conversation. I felt like Yuki saying 'Be my guest' sounded a little too eager for her when being told she might be evicted. From what i remember of the anime she said 'douzo' at this point. I figured 'feel free to do so' would fit better, but opted 'please feel free' though it isn't accurate of 'douzo'.

(Is something this minor worth a note in the discussion? I wasn't entirely sure ifi should have just changed it or not.)

Moe

While its exact definition could be debated on (see Wikipedia's entry), "Turn-on Factor" is a nice catch-all translation of it. Which direction you get 'turned on' can be varied: strong desire to protect and cuddle, "I so want to go out with him/her", fuzzy warmth at Omega cuteness - these are some possibilities all of which could fall under "Moe".

The Fall of Hyperion

About this passage:

All the members are here today. Nagato Yuki sat in her usual spot, reading a hardback book about the effects of Saturn's satellites falling down. Asahina didn't have to come but still obediently arrived, sitting on a steel chair looking confused.

The original Japanese text is:

一応メンバーは揃っていた。相も変わらず長門有希は定位置で土星のマイナー衛星が落ちた とかどうしたとかいうタイトルのハードカバーを読みふくり、来なくてもいいのに生真面目に もちゃんとやって来た朝日奈みくるさんは在所なげにパイプ椅子に腰掛けている。

So far as I can tell, a better translation of the passage would be:

Anyway, all the members were here today. Nagato Yuki was in her usual spot, reading a hardback book about a minor satellite of Saturn falling down, or something like that. Asahina didn't have to come but had still obediently arrived, seated on a steel chair and looking confused.

Obviously, the book in question (as we've seen in the anime) has to be The Fall of Hyperion by Dan Simmons -- but equally obviously, Kyon doesn't recognize it, and thinks it's about Hyperion the satellite of Saturn. This is marked by the tentative nature of his to ka doushita to ka iu taitoru.

I'm changing this passage as shown, in the body text, but I just wanted to explain why I've changed it this way. I really think that we might want to include a translator's footnote here, to the effect that we know which book is meant, but that the confusion was present in the original text, and is indisputably deliberate on the part of the author. Are we going to make footnotes? If so, this is a good place for one.

--Freak Of Nature 19:14, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

That is a reasonable edit in my book. --Baltakatei 22:57, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

The general story is seven pilgrims re-visiting a planet, and most of the book is composed of the life stories of each pilgrim.

I read the first life story (the priest's) yesterday. It's one powerful piece of writing. I'd call it one of the most striking scifi tales I've read in the past year. If you get the chance, go read it...

Eleutheria 09:45, 30 April 2006 (PDT)

I've read the entire series, both the two "Hyperion" stories, and the two "Endymion" sequelae. It's excellent, though the coherence of the story wavers a bit near the end. I believe that I'm not the only one of the "regulars" who has read it all.

Then again, I've read a lot of science fiction over the years.

--Freak Of Nature 12:43, 1 May 2006 (PDT)

I read the Fall of Hyperion today. Took me from lunch to 8 pm, since I wanted to soak in all of it. Rachel's exact timeline took some puzzling.

I'm now convinced that Nagato Yuki doesn't really read. Those thick books are for show. If she had got anything out of the Fall of Hyperion, she wouldn't still be so emotionless. She'd have realized the truth behind the Void Which Binds.

---Eleutheria 17:14, 2 May 2006 (PDT)

Maybe. I think she probably reads them but doesn't really take in the deeper meaning of them.

It's a great series, though. I read it by chance in high school. Just picked it up because it looked interesting.

-- Kumarei 23:55, 7 May 2006

Doraemon

Doraemon is probably the most famous robotic cat in Japanese culture. And it does smile a lot, apparently.

From Wikipedia:

Doraemon possesses a four-dimensional pocket from which he can produce all manner of futuristic tools, gadgets and playthings from a future department store.

This dovetails nicely with the image of Haruhi smiling as she pulls something devious out of her bag.

--The naming game 17:23, 2 May 2006 (PDT)

Ooh, good spot yeah - forgot to write that down after the Reference system was implemented. And yes, Doraemon does smile a lot - with a big big mouth expression.

--Psieye 17:50, 2 May 2006 (PDT)

Current Translation Debates

Requirements for organizing an "association"

The paragraph in the text listing the requirements seems really awkward to me. I am tempted to format it as an actual list (using wiki markup) rather than try to figure out a way to tie everthing together into a list in a sentance. Can anyone with the original text comment on what it looks like there?

For reference, here is the current paragraph:

Requirements for organizing an "association": Five members or more. A sponsor teacher, club name, chairperson for the club, and club activities/goals summary are required - which then requires approval from the Student Council Executive Committee. The club's activities must fit in with the school philosophy of creativity and vivaciousness. Based on the activities' records and results, the Executive Committee would debate on whether to promote the association into a "study group". Furthermore, as an association, the school will not provide any funding.

I'm thinking of changing it to:

Requirements for organizing an "association":

• Five members (or more)
• A sponsor teacher
• A club name
• A chairperson
• A summary of club activities/goals

The activities and goals must match up with the school philosophy of creativity and vivaciousness and be approved to the Student Council Executive Comittee. After activities take place, the Committee will consider the records and results and consider promoting the association to a "study group." Until that happens, the school will not provide any funding.

--BlckKnght 14:35, 28 May 2006 (PDT)

In the US, you occasionally see these "inline lists" where the list elements are separated by semicolons. Would that work?

203.217.22.128 22:34, 13 July 2006 (PDT)

Resolved Translation Discussions

"...... If I could never marry because of this, would you still marry me......?"

「・・・私がお嫁にいけなくなるようなことになったら、貰ってくれますか・・・？」

According to the detail analysis of the original Japanese novel in MegaTokyo, the correct phase should be "Should something happen to me (that would keep me from marrying someone under a normal circumstance), will you marry me?"

Blah I wish people(aka readers) would correct it when they notice a major mistake.

--Thelastguardian 02:00, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

Well, quite literally, Asahina is saying:

"If something should happen so I cannot become a bride, will you take me?"

--Freak Of Nature 02:29, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

So...change it? (It's 3 o'clock am here and my brain is on auto mode. You decide.)

--Thelastguardian 02:45, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

Done. Oh, and it's just past noon here -- I'm on Central European Time (GMT+1).

--Freak Of Nature 03:05, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

I know it isn't right to criticize, but these two sure have a lot of free time on their hands!

I wonder if this might be better (or more idiomatically) phrased:

I know I'm not one to criticize...

This has almost the same meaning, but I don't know if it's faithful enough to the original text. Any translator care to comment?

--BlckKnght 00:47, 4 May 2006 (PDT)

That's a messy part of the English language, when non-grammatical things acquire meaning through usage.

Literally,

EX.1a

I'm not one to criticize

means

EX.1b

I'm not one [of those people who you would normally expect] to criticize

but in usage, it's come to also mean

EX.1c

I'm in no position to criticize.

(actually, the "correct" term is "I shouldn't be one to criticize", but correctness is for the British.)

Usage aside, though, the meaning you're going for is what makes the most sense in context.

Actually, which of those two meanings did you mean? I had EX.1c in mind. (As I'm not a translator, I can only comment on the English/logical side of things.)

Great, now I'm confused. The way I see it, Kyon's wasting time in the clubroom too, so he's in no position to say that they have too much time on their hands. Which is the only meaning of the sentence that's in character. I mean, come on -- has he ever been afraid of letting loose with snarky comments before? When has he ever felt guilty about criticizing people?

--The naming game 13:12, 4 May 2006 (PDT)

Aren't idiom's fun? EX.1c is what I would say the idiom "I'm not one to criticize" means, and it seems very appropriate for the situation (Kyon has a lot of free time on his hands too). I think I'll go ahead and make the change, but if any translators think the idiom says too much more than the original Japanese, we can put it back.

--BlckKnght 16:01, 4 May 2006 (PDT)

It was kind of sitting in the back of my head, and suddenly I realized that both interpretations of the term make sense grammatically. EX.1d (e.g. EX.1b) is the only one I've seen in stuffy academic works, but then again, academics use much more elaborate means of undermining the credibility of others.

EX.1d

I'm not one [who is inclined] to criticize

EX.1e

I'm not one [who is qualified] to criticize

So maybe English isn't as messy as I thought it was. Still, there's always "I could care less" (should be "I couldn't") -- that one definitely bugs me.

--The naming game 19:02, 4 May 2006 (PDT)

Funny how this caught my attention: (actually, the "correct" term is "I shouldn't be one to criticize", but correctness is for the British.)

Anyway, looking at the original translation stated as the title: I know it isn't right to criticize, but these two sure have a lot of free time on their hands!, you can see how it seems that all versions of the Ex.1 you've posted can be implied from it. However, the subtle differene is in this few key words strung together: know it isn't right. What these few words seem to suggest immediately (apart from all the versions of Ex.1, which would cross our mind first perhaps), is that it is wrong for him to criticize, but why? If we assume that it is because Kyon has a lot of free time himself (which is probably clear enough from reading the book), then Ex.1c fits best as well as the so-called "correct" term mentioned above.

If you wanted to choose between those two, all you need simply ask is how Kyon thinks of himself by also having lots of free time to boot. Thus, "I shouldn't be one to criticize" doesn't sound like something Kyon would think to himself whereas "I'm in no position to criticize" seems more like something he would say.

Basically, I support BlckKnght's decision.

--Da~Mike 21:48, 9 May 2006 (GMT)

The SOS Brigade

This topic should be discussed at: Talk:Format guideline#SOS-Dan.27s_full_name

--BlckKnght 23:30, 5 May 2006 (PDT)