Talk:Mushoku Tensei Names and Terminology

Misc

http://mypage.syosetu.com/mypageblog/view/userid/288399/blogkey/636576/ <--- Author BLOG character bio page (incomplete + spoilers)

http://ncode.syosetu.com/n9669bk/192/ <--- Map 3 raw page, if you want to figure out location names. I'm still bothered over Milis, Milishion, and Arusu (capital of Asura)

Thanks for making this page, it was needed though I'm not good with these types of translations. --Dark Kaito (talk) 05:28, 11 July 2014 (CDT)

After trying to find out who Zenisu was, the need for such a page became obvious. Please put any names you stumble upon during translation into it so that we can make it uniform throughout the translations. We still need to decide on the variants, though (i.e. Janis or Janice?) SinsI (talk) 05:54, 11 July 2014 (CDT)

The names here and the names in the "Character Introductions" on the Main Page were written differently. Please fix it. --Yoyoyo5678 (talk)

Exact names are not yet stabilized. Usually the first translator to stumble upon one decides on it, but here even the same translator frequently switches from one romanization to another. Feel free to discuss any discrepancies here, so that we can select the best ones. SinsI (talk) 06:06, 11 July 2014 (CDT) Also, sometimes later information forces to correct earlier spelling. I.e. when choosing between Greyrat/Greyrait, later there is a reference to "mousy family name". SinsI (talk) 06:12, 11 July 2014 (CDT)

SilentWolfie translate Rapurasu(sp) the Demon Lord as Lapius. I think the name is a reference to Laplace's Demon. --Silereamer (talk) 02:08, 13 July 2014 (CDT)

I'd like to piggyback on the former comment about the discrepancy for Zenisu being translated as Janice instead of Zenith. The katakana and no less than 4 translation engines spit 'Zenith' out as a solid match. That being said I'll leave my naming contribs here and let you all decide where to go since I'm fielding vol.7 academy arc. Localization of names I'd rather leave to the editors, since they do the polishing anyways. ザノバ・シーローン Zanoba is an ethiopian name and quite common around north africa. No complaints about Shiron/Shirone as the territory surname attributed to him being prince. ギレーヌ・デドルディア Guillain Dedorudia it's a french name, and perhaps an ironic joke, considering Robert Guillain was a french author on works about the nation of japan who was also an eyewitness to the atom bomb drop on hiroshima (sounds like the mana calamity, right?) クリフ・グリモル Cliff Grimoire yet another play on words to his occupation. A grimoire being quite literally 'book of grammar', though this time in an esoteric sense, since he's quite knowledgeable on written magic formations having to do with the nature of summoning magic. ナナホシ should remain Nanahoshi instead of Sevenstar (or variant), at least until any wordplay becomes prevalent, though there is a great deal of mythos in this series dealing with the number 7. アリエル・アネモイ・アスラ Ariel Anemoi Asura is legit. 'Anemoi' is a greek psuedo-deity of the wind, with the lesser chief wind dieties being Eurus, Boreas, Notos, and Zephyrus (the Grayrat branches in the book) カラヴァッジョ　Caravaggio was a 16th century Italian Painter, other localizations of his name also include Caravage. イゾルテ (Izorute) sounds similar to 'Iseult' of Tristan and Isolde fame. A nice story or fast wikipedia read will show similar details in reference to plot involving her character... sort of anyway. キシリカ・キシリス Kishirika Kishirisu - keep the r's and drop the u if it makes it feel easier to the eyes, otherwise it's fine, I think it's personally a play on the word '軋る' Kishiru; which is an annoying sound like a floorboard squeak or the grating of a metal fence post when you swing it open. And considering her FUHAHAHAHAHA she does near every other line she is quite annoying when she's not being useful. (as well as Badi-Gadi and the other Immortal Devil Kings, there is appropriate wordplay for them as well.) For the beasts of the forest of milis continent ギュエス Gaius from the Dorudia tribe is a play on words and also associates with his daughter the dog-beast girl プルセナ Parusena (Lars Porsena, was a king who besieged rome at one point, and had an attempted assassination by a youth named Gaius, even though the youth failed, His bravado caused king Porsena to enact a peace treaty and lift the siege.) ミニトーナ Minito-na (Minnetona) and テルセナ Terusena (Tersena) I haven't found the complete wordplay on yet, so it might just be random, I'll do some looking into it later on if clues arise. 聖獣様 Seijuu-sama Lit. Esteemed Sacred Animal/Holy Beast-sama. He figures quite a bit in vol 18+ because of the importance of ララ (Lara? Lara just fits best in my mind anyway so far) so confirming what to call his name as should be important. Though He does end up being called "Leo" later on. リニア Rinia. No wordplay with this so far, so keeping this as such for now. I expect some wordplay will fall into place since she is something 人神／ヒトガミ Human God/Hitogami keeps throwing Rudeus' way. And it is important to differentiate 人神 Human God from just 神 God (who happens to be ロキシー/Roxy!). and lastly スペルド族 The Superudo Tribe. A couple takes see it as Spelled (as in having an obvious magic enchantment) and one that I didn't get at first, since my brain read it's katakana as 'Speared' having to do mainly with the tribe's affinity to spears which is a major crux of Ruijerd's plot. Anything is fine though. ラプラス Rapurasu is clearly a reference to the Demon of LaPlace, since he was one of the Immortal Demon Lords according to the 400-year history of the world (just currently sealed away in the fortress Chaos Breaker.) --Skuizaan (talk) 03:08, 13 July 2014 (CDT)--

^+100 points, that's some awesome reasoning and precisely why I'm no good with names. One thing on the Holy Beast, I've been translating it that way because of Holy sounds best for most aspects of that continent, technically that entire area uses Saint rather than Holy. IE Saint Beast-sama, Saint Milis, Saint Milis Country would be an alternative name for that one though since every other location is named Kingdom and Saint doesn't fit well as a country/kingdom name, I went with defining it as Holy Milis Kingdom. Also, it could have been taken as Sword Saint/Saint Sword Highway, I don't know if that could have some background in regards to Saint Beasts. One thing I do agree on is the meaning behind Superudo, I think I'm going to switch to using Speared for that one. Also, agree on Laplace Demon (Maxwell is a later mentioned character as well AKA Maxwell's Demon entertaining that page is linked to the Wiki page for Laplace, and Maxwell is related to Atofe I believe both who are related to Laplace if I'm remembering the events right).--Dark Kaito (talk) 06:53, 13 July 2014 (CDT)

Wow, I didn't know there were so many Greek god references but I'm not surprised. About 人神, it's stated in chapter 160 「準備」 that the world knows him as 人神 (pronounced Jinshin) and Hitogami is more like a personal name that few people know, making his full name 人神ヒトガミ (Jinshin Hitogami, perhaps better translated as Human God Hitogami). Leaving his name in romaji also fits with all the times people ask others about him (for example, when Rudeus first asks Ruijerd about 人神, to which Rujierd quizically replies "ヒトガミ？"). That's my opinion. On a side note, I always thought キシリカ's name would sound good written as Kicilica Kicilice, as it seems etymologically similar to the 魔大陸 town リカリス which is close to リコリス/Licorice. Just figured I'd put it out there. (Alternative spelling for maximum mind-screw: Cicilica Cicilice.) --Myopius (talk) 05:34, 14 July 2014 (CDT)

Translations engines are not an authority on romanizations, as well as katakana. Best way to find romanizations for names is to look for known persons with such a romanization. Janice is just as good a match. Guillain is ギラン, not even close to Girune, which is ギレーヌ SinsI (talk) 22:15, 15 July 2014 (CDT)

Sinisl, because naming sense in katakana is truly a troublesome thing, do you mind if I share how I even came to 'Guillain' as the translation? Before anything else, let me apologize now if I come off sounding rude, I don't mean it to be anything other than an objectionary statement. Firstly, until just this edit, I haven't consulted a translation engine on the matter. Secondly, isn't ギルーネ Giru-ne and ギレーヌ Gire-nu? I sounded 'レ' as le opposed to re, and got Gilenu, which if you carry the re/le sound with the hyphen, you get a double vowel result ree/lee, which results in something like Gileenu. The ee coming off as similar to the a in say. Thirdly, is that this author does borrow his fantasy names from a wide range of European sources, and just sounding it out made my intuition say it was french. But, then I decided to check out what the translation engines and pronunciation engines have to say on the matter, since you did have a good idea there, and got these links as what I guess would be empirical evidence for my claim on the name as Guillain. Katakana to English similarities on ギレーヌ and French pronunciation of ギレーヌ with the second link, to me at least the 're' can sound like a 'le' and the 'nu' is just pronounced softly. But if you have a better suggestion than that, please go for it. I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes, rather, I am just trying to help fill in troublesome blanks if I can. It can stay Gire-nu indefinitely if it's easier for everyone. And as for ゼニス ... Katakana to English similarities for ゼニス. Jenice is listed, and I can see a logical jump there, but Janice is more like ジャニス if it's JanISS as opposed to ジャニース if it's JahNEESE (yes, ask me how I know two women who pronounce their names that way as well -_-). I just can't wrap my head around the entire oversight of reading ゼ ze as ジャ ja. Plus, this author uses Rudeus to spout Dragon Quest related nonsense everywhere, and King Zenith ゼニス王 was a ruler of the floating castle of Dragon Quest 6 also happened to be a human instead of what the previous owners were: dragons, so it's not entirely implausible he would use that name using the Zenith->ChaosBreaker->Pergius chain, since Rudeus makes all those 'I became a sage...' jokes to hysterical comic relief, and Sage just happens to be a recurring class in the DQ series. Anyways, that's just speculation on my part, I just happen to see these weird puns like that littered throughout the novel. Anyway, once again I sincerely apologize if my remarks came off as rude, it is not intentional at all. I'm just trying to be constructive and informative about how I come to reach my naming suggestions. --Skuizaan (talk) 02:08, 16 July 2014 (CDT)

Ah, of course it is Girenu, eyes get tired of reading katakana so much. Wiki says Ghislaine Thesmar is written as ギレーヌ・テスマー, so that's one good reading right there that doesn't require any inventiveness. SinsI (talk) 11:47, 16 July 2014 (CDT)

Ghislaine eh? wow that's beautiful, because you just pointed out something interesting. Both a Ghislaine ((Which does have a verifiable prounciation as "Gee-len" See audio result #2) and Linnea (リニア) ("Lin-e-AH") Swedish pronunciation of Linnéa. Are types of Foliage. Ghislaine being a Rose, and Linnea being a Twinflower. That becomes incredibly humorous when you think how Linnea and Pursena are almost always together. I don't think I would have caught that. Nice job!

Girenu or Ghislaine or Guillain or Ghyslaine? Confused cross-referencing this list and AnimeSuki for the names.. We are talking about one character - right? right? Whenever you guys want I can try to walk through all the pages and fix the names given permission.. Because I'm in the mood for fixing the names.. If we ever reach a conclusion o_O Acolyte (talk) 20:33, 16 July 2014 (CDT)

For now, I think we should just stick to the Names and Terminology page for consistency with the current Tled chapters. Once names are finalised, if they need to be changed, they can be done. Pumkingboyz (talk) 03:25, 18 July 2014 (CDT)

Just throwing these ones out here again with links, but as Skuizaan already mentioned above possible: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamba_(mythology) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iseult Also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarilo --Dark Kaito (talk) 09:13, 22 July 2014 (CDT)

They are a miss: Iseult starts with 'Ise', not with 'Ize', Jarilo ends with 'ro', not with 'ru'. SinsI (talk) 11:29, 22 July 2014 (CDT)

Have to agree with SinsI in that Jarilo is a complete miss. The 'j' in Jarilo is a 'y' sound: ヤリーロ http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ヤリーロ Vanant (talk) 13:00, 22 July 2014 (CDT)

Jarilo (Cyrillic: Ярило or Јарило; Polish: Jaryło; Template:Lang-slo; Croatian: Jura or Juraj; Serbian: Đurilo; Slavic: Jarovit), alternatively Yarilo, Iarilo, or Gerovit, was a Slavic god of vegetation, fertility and springtime. I think we should rename him Gerovit, lol. --Dark Kaito (talk) 13:26, 22 July 2014 (CDT)

Ariel's attendent's names need to be standardized. Erumina/Erumoa Bluewolf/Blue Wolf (I recommend Elmina/Elmoa Bluewolf) Kurine/Kuriine Erurondo (I recommend Kurine Elrond) --Trev lite (talk) 18:35, 5 August 2014 (CDT)

The big city that Rudeus goes to to tutor Eris is called both Fedoa (same name as the region it is in) and Roa. Could some one look over this please. --Trev lite (talk) 00:53, 6 August 2014 (CDT)

About Rudy's armor

It was actually spelled as madou yoroi = magic/magical armor, just like how 魔導書 was spelled as madoushou = magic/magical tome or grimoire for short (well, correct me if I was wrong ^ ^)--Endo (talk) 00:02, 18 July 2014 (CDT)

Zantport and Wenport

Suggestion: If you're going to be liberal and translate 'wenpooto' as 'Windport', you may as well go the whole mile and translate 'zantopooto' as Sandport. Vanant (talk) 01:01, 20 July 2014 (CDT)

Reason being that Japanese don't have trouble rendering 'Wind' as 'Windo' e.g. the word ウィンドサーフィン, or the company 株式会社WIND also written as 株式会社ウィンド. Gunna be frank here; if the author is aware of a name like Ghislaine, then I'd bet that he knows 'wind' is not typically written as 'wen'. In other words, either he's hinting at 'wind', which makes it possible that 'zanto' is hinting at 'sand', or he didn't have 'wind' in mind at all, and it's supposed to be 'wenport'. Vanant (talk) 02:46, 22 July 2014 (CDT)

Be a rebel and translate it as Saint Port (though it is the Mirisu side). I didn't think Zanto had the sound of Sand, I guess that does sort of make sense after its pointed out. Names too hard for me I should just start naming all characters with letters, though I would run out and have to mix them with numbers, Rudeus is now called A1 in my translations... --Dark Kaito (talk) 01:15, 20 July 2014 (CDT)

Gunna rebel and start using Rooday'Az.Vanant (talk) 11:52, 20 July 2014 (CDT)

As for the wenpooto/zantopooto business, I would like to let alllllll you editors know, that I personally feel that you either stay fundamentalist for both (Wenport and Zantport), or liberal for both (Windport and Sandport). Also, I don't think there's a problem with Begaritto IMO, unless someone finds convincingly corresponding sounds in names of European places. Vanant (talk) 02:24, 22 July 2014 (CDT)

EDIT: Also, still waiting on your input about changing the MC's name to Rooday'Az lol. Vanant (talk) 02:27, 22 July 2014 (CDT)

When it comes to names I have no issue with any changes to them it's better if they're all the same across the board. Just try to avoid any names that might massively alter the meaning. That Special/Good Life thing in volume 7 bothers me a bit in such a way. I always thought of Girenu as a Gelaine kind of name but if you guys want to take that as a Ghyslaine, that's similar and fine, just don't expect me to remember how to type it out like that when I'm translating it later, your free to fix it after to whatever is decided. Also, I mentioned it as a joke before but after giving it some thought I seriously started to consider Zanto = Saint, Saint Port as a connection point between what should have been Country of Saint Milis and it's at one end of the Sword Saint Highway. Anyways, good luck with the names no need to ask me any further. --Dark Kaito (talk) 07:45, 22 July 2014 (CDT)

Mmn, I think Saint Port might be good too. I just suggested Sand Port because I found it weird that 'wenpooto' was taken so liberally (I don't think a normal Japanese would get 'wind' from 'ウェン'), but you guys didn't noticed that 'zantopooto' might be sand in that case. If anything, you should be using Wenport and Sandport, not Windport and Zantoport (which would be much more normal for Japanese).

The reason is because 'zanto' resembles the German/Dutch pronunciation of 'sand', and so the four letter combination 'sand' ends up as ザント in Japanese.

e.g. in Log Horizon, ザント is used in the name of a place called ザントリーフ (taken by most translators as Sand Leaf).
e.g. http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ザントハウゼン (Sandhausen)
e.g. http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/マルティン・ザントベルガー (Martin Sandberger)

On the other hand, the four letter combination 'wind' is basically always ウィンド (windo) and not ウェン (wen). For this reason, imo the possible names should be like this, from most liberal to most fundamentalist:

1. Saint Port and Wind Port
2. Sand Port and Wind Port
3. Sandport and Wenport
4. Zantport and Wenport

And yeah, the Special/Good Life thing is bothering me as well lol. It's weird because in English we don't associate 'life' with 'student'. Readers might get the wrong impression. Honestly "the Good Life" sounds like the name of some pyramid scam. Also I think that Gelaine might be a corruption of Ghislaine. I've personally never heard of Gelaine though, but it doesn't seem popular judging by google searches. It's just conjecture, but perhaps it's an 'alternate' spelling of Ghislaine. Vanant (talk) 09:37, 22 July 2014 (CDT)

Shiron Kingdom

Throwing in support for 'Shirone' or something like that instead of Shiron. Reading the raws for volume 7 at the moment, and found that it's シーローン王国. Usually the long 'roon' (ローン) is used for words that sound like 'lawn' (as in the grass) or loan (as in the investment). Vanant (talk) 02:55, 21 July 2014 (CDT)

At animesuki I saw them use Pax Shiron/Shirone instead of Pakkusu, since its a fairly well known latin word. Its also ironic considering the prince is anything but peaceful.--Nosobi (talk) 22:07, 22 July 2014 (CDT)

エリナリーゼ

Would like to suggest ending エリナリーゼ's name in lise or liese, as it is reminiscent of the German/French name ending. I'm currently suggesting Elinalise as it sounds like parts of a real name, but as I realise there's no long vowel in エリナ, I'm ambivalent towards both 'Elina' and 'Erina'.

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/リーゼ

Vanant (talk) 01:21, 22 July 2014 (CDT)

It's only like that cause the earlier chapters were tl'ed like that and changed for consistency. If Kaito doesn't mind, i'll change 'erinarize' to 'Elinalise', 'begaritto' to 'begarit' and 'Shiron' to 'Shirone', should Zanto port/Wenport stay as it is or be changed to sand port/wind port? There was also talks about Girenu/Ghislaine/Guillain/Ghyslaine but a decision was never made. Please let me know if you want these changed Pumkingboyz (talk) 01:59, 22 July 2014 (CDT)

Shouldn't this be discussed amongst the editors? Kaito himself has said that he'd leave things to the editors. I understand my place as well, and will obey the will of the majority. Still, I have the right to stubbornly try and change your minds lol. For one thing, I'm pretty sure Guillain is a man's name, and written as ギラン(giran). ギレーヌ (gireenu) is almost certainly Ghislaine or one of it's variants (Ghyslaine for example) and not Girenu. It's also not Ghislain because that's also a man's name (lol). Vanant (talk) 02:24, 22 July 2014 (CDT)

^^^^ It is probably Guilléne. Guillén and Ghislain are male, you add 'e' to the end - Guilléne and Ghislaine to make them feminine.

Yeah no way I want to change names without a consensus because I'll feel guilty if I destroy people's translations. However I went to AnimeSuki forum and even there they said the only consensus they ever come to is Orsted (instead of Orusuteddo or Orstedd) because there was a roman writing. If you guys need help I can go through and make the names consistent. Just tell us editors what to do. There're like 4-5 version of names out there including the online-translated stuff that didn't get romanized. Give us the trigger and I'll start referring to this page to fix all the names and terminologies. Unlike Vanant while I obey the will of the majority I have no reason to change peoples' minds lol because seems like a lot had already done their research. Oh, can we get more wiki/reference links in the page so new editors know why did people come up with the names? :) Acolyte (talk) 10:59, 22 July 2014 (CDT)

Was just reading User_talk:Pumkingboyz and Skuizaan was talking about flower names being used for Lilia, Ghislaine, Ginger, and Juliet. Was there a reason we're using Lylia instead of Lilia? Was it game reference? We're not prioritizing flower name usage? Acolyte (talk) 12:26, 22 July 2014 (CDT)

Orsted. also if it's the difference between male and female changing Ghislaine with Ghyslaine go with the feminine. Elinalize or whatever is fine. No real references found with her or aisha. Pakkusu should be Pax though, without a doubt, since 'Pax' means peace, and we know he is anything but peaceable. Lilia is not in any DQ game, though you might find it funny that our friend Cliff Grimoire is. From DQ4, also the origin of Zenith (Castle), Kurifuto was a PC if I remember my NES, and I don't. Take away the -to and you have Kurifu. --Skuizaan (talk) 02:09, 23 July 2014 (CDT)

ギュエス (gyuesu)

I suggest Gyes. In Japanese, the Hekatonkheir Gyes (Γύης) is romanised as ギュエス(gyuesu) or alternatively ギューエース(gyuueesu). Considering all this other shit the guy knows about Greek mythology I'm going to go out on a limb and suppose that he's heard of the hekatonkheires. In the first place, Gyes is one of the hekatonkheires that appears in Owari no Chronicle.

Incidentally, one of its other names is Gyges (Γύγης), is brought into Japanese as ギューゲース (gyuugeesu).

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ヘカトンケイル Vanant (talk) 12:39, 22 July 2014 (CDT)

Whoa, didn't see ^this link before. Go with that by all means.--Skuizaan (talk) 12:39, 24 July 2014 (CDT)

イゾルテ・クルーエル (izorute kuruueru)

Copy of conversation:

You need to have a look at how they romanise things here: http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/トリスタンとイゾルデ

Isolde is イゾルデ(izorude) and Iseult is イズールト(izuuruto). You have the grounds to change Iseult to Isolte or something or other, but there's no grounds for you to say that "oh, it's not a 'so' sound but a 'zo' sound so let's change it to Izolte" Vanant (talk) 12:29, 22 July 2014 (CDT)

If you look, you'll notice that イゾルテ is neither of those - it is not ending in 'De', and second syllable is not 'Zu'. Modified reading of Isolde into Isolte, that corresponds to the change of 'de' to 'te', is as good reading as any, unless an example is found of word with existing translation with exactly that reading SinsI (talk) 12:39, 22 July 2014 (CDT)

You're missing my point completely, lol. I'm saying that no matter if it's a テ or a デ, "Iseult starts with 'Ise', not with 'Ize'" is completely invalid. Iseult and Isolde are both transliterated as 'z' sounds (see righhhhhhhht above this message. I'll even bold it for you.). Not to be rude here, but you're going to have to learn that Japanese don't take pronounciation cues from English alone, buddy. A great example is how they write 'Bach' lol. How about you tell me that バッハ isn't Bach, because Bach should end in a っく sound.

When it comes to fantasy names, they're usually not taken directly from an actual name/location name. That's why we do the best we can to find parts that they may have pieced together, or taken cues from. For example, Iseult and Isolde. Vanant (talk) 12:44, 22 July 2014 (CDT)

EDIT: For the record, I have no idea who this izorute character is lol. I'm just arguing because I can't agree with the basis behind SinsI's modification to Izolte (http://i59.tinypic.com/291gyuw.png). If he's being picky about the 'te' ending instead of 'de' ending, then use Isolte. It makes no sense to use 'izolte' when Japanese have clearly shown that they use イゾ to represent the 'iso' sound in Isolde. Vanant (talk) 12:53, 22 July 2014 (CDT)

BTW I was just pointing Iseult wiki page out as the most likely origin for her character (matches her character description as well), Izolte, Izolde, Isolde, or Isolte all work IMO for names, it says right on the wiki page that Isolde is an alternative spelling for Iseult, put that through a Japanese pronunciation grinder and any of those work really. She appears in the Eris side stories along the later volumes, also in volume 16 chapter 5 Letter Arrives that I translated previously. --Dark Kaito (talk) 13:23, 22 July 2014 (CDT)

@SinsI: As I've said, if you're unhappy with Iseult, then use Isolte. There's no need for Izolte because 1) it's not a name 2) The 'iso' in 'Isolte' is read as 'イゾ(izo)' anyways. Vanant (talk) 14:25, 22 July 2014 (CDT)

As much as I lit the fire here... Izolute was how I read it at first, and was just looking for what was phonetically close, because katakana is... well yeah. Honestly, I was wondering if Izolute wasn't some kind of counter word to something like Resolute. If not, I mean, you have Final Fantasy Tactics' good old Izludeit's literally one kana off. イズルード (Izoru-do) instead of イズルテ (Izorute). And we know this guy is all about Square-enix games. We can ignore this character for a while, but she will be dealt with during Eris side stories, and in vol.18 I believe. BUT I'm going to throw this out here. Tristina. Tristina is mentioned around this time as well and you have Tristan and Iseult. I mean yeah it's somewhat stretching it, and honestly, I don't care enough to pursue it at this time. --Skuizaan (talk) 02:09, 23 July 2014 (CDT)

プルセナ

I feel that the Porsena Lars thing is grasping at straws a bit. First of all they write him as ポルセナ王(king porusena). Second of all he's not that famous. Pursena is probably just a made up name that Ludicrous Backscratcher came up with.

http://www.oct.zaq.ne.jp/poppo456/in/p_Publicola.htm (mentions of porusena as ポルセナ王)

http://blog.goo.ne.jp/shizuo_asogawa/e/697fadb7ae033607473d74979fb4e891 (mentions of porusena as ポルセナ王)

http://wikimatome.com/wiki/ポルセナ

Vanant (talk) 07:00, 24 July 2014 (CDT)

It's fine to do whatever on this one tbh, I'm not gonna be obstinate. Mainly because I've read this: Haevest which happens to have a character in it named Purusena, same as in this one.--Skuizaan (talk) 12:30, 24 July 2014 (CDT)

Since her name matches with her sister, should we change that other girl to Tersena? Or should we go with Purusena for this one? Vanant (talk) 22:35, 29 July 2014 (CDT)

I think Purusena name is read as Prusena or Plusena zmunjali

リニア

Linnea the flower would be リンネ(rinne) wouldn't it? http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/リンネソウ

The only mention of リニア(rinia, the character's name) with regards to botanology would be the calandrinia (カランドリニア) so I'm pretty happy with Rinia as things are. ATM the idea that the author was going for some flower naming scheme seems just a tad dubious. Speaking fairly though, I'm only up to volume 8.

As for the Swedish name, it's リネア(rinea):

"スウェーデンで「リネア」は 女の子の名前としても大変有名です。" - http://woodenhorse.shop-pro.jp/?pid=42910460
"In Sweden, the girls' name 'Linnea' is very famous."

Hotel name transliterated as リネア(rinea), not リニア(rinia): http://www.jtb.co.jp/kaigai_fit/fr/v2/hotel/1081529/index.html;jsessionid=D04A45F1D49693C8E9605EEE5703A4C9

Vanant (talk) 07:00, 24 July 2014 (CDT)

Googled the following: リニア and 名前 and Linnea It's legit. Some people do pronounce it Lin EE ah リニア, not just Lin AY uh リネア. Honestly if it was me, I wouldn't even attempt to localize any of these names. Until the end Rinia would be Rinia, Purusena Purusena, Gire-nu Gire-nu, etc. I worry that the people who want to do the manga scanlation (BTW chapter 1 is out in Monthly comic flapper- june issue) are going to be taking the naming cues from us. --Skuizaan (talk) 12:11, 24 July 2014 (CDT)

From experience the manga scanlators are worse in romanizing names. e.g. Lots of weird names for Hyouketsu Kyoukai no Eden first time, but the author himself did give the characters some hard-to-pronounce names tho lol. But yeah my first sentence still stands. Acolyte (talk) 12:15, 24 July 2014 (CDT)

Oh cool! Stand corrected. -salutes- Vanant (talk) 17:40, 24 July 2014 (CDT)

Has there been an official decision on this name yet? Personally i am in the Linnea camp (because that is the flower's name), but if the wiki makes a decision i will commence with the standardization. --Trev lite (talk) 23:42, 2 August 2014 (CDT)

Bog? Quagmire? Morass? Marshland? Swamp? Mire? Fen?

Lets decide this please.

I prefer "Morass" because it makes for a great word in the following chapters.

But i'm willing to settle for "Marshland", "Mire" or "Fen".

"Bog" is a slang for a toilet and quagmire reminds me of "Family Guy", so they will never sound "cool" in my head....ever.

--Onizuka-GTO 03:30, 25 July 2014 (CDT)

I stand by "Bog" first, he gets comments on how "dirty" his name sounds when his nickname comes up. Though just going with the simple "Mud" might work as well. "Rudeus of the Mud". "Rudmud" or "Mudeus" for short. Lol. That sounds so bad but I don't think his name was intended to sound cool. In terms of English transition Quagmire might work for comedic effect, "Oh Rudeus of the Quagmire you're so dirty~" It's like an unintended English reference. (Or maybe the Author was really just that bad ass to put that into consideration when he came up with it as a reference?) My opinion: 1. Bog, 2. Quagmire 3. Mud --Dark Kaito (talk) 04:23, 25 July 2014 (CDT)

"Bog" is a slang for a toilet and quagmire reminds me of "Family Guy", so they will never sound "cool" in my head....ever. Have to agree with both of these, but the first comment in particular. Seeing peopel write it as 'bog' is just really uhh... Like, I can't imagine that anyone could associate that with respect lol. Vanant (talk) 15:12, 25 July 2014 (CDT)

Okay, since Kaito makes a point that it shouldn't be "cool" i can understand it for later usage, but i really can't stand "bog" or "mud", "Quagmire" irritates me, but that's from a cultural standpoint and i suspect for non-western/Native English-speaking readers, the reference wouldn't be an issue. So i propose that we stick with "Quagmire", as it is not anyones favourite and irritates us all equally, which can be used in later comedic instances.

Onizuka-GTO 01:05, 26 July 2014 (CDT)

It is written Rudus of quagmire. Is it simple typo or does he goes by Rudus instead of Rudeus? ~Anonymous stranger

It's a typo of Roux'Deus. Vanant (talk) 07:30, 2 August 2014 (CDT)

Voiceless or Chantless?

Which one? I'm seeing both in the translations. DaiZzed (talk) 16:37, 25 July 2014 (CDT)

I'm the one who usually uses Voiceless Incantations (I think it started from Silent's translations?), but that might assume he's still using the incantation just in his head. Chantless is the proper way of using it, and you're free to fix them if you see it. --Dark Kaito (talk) 16:58, 25 July 2014 (CDT)

he doesn't "chant" per se, he "imagines" or virtually 3D builds the magic mentally, therefore i feel "chantless" is more accurate. Onizuka-GTO 01:07, 26 July 2014 (CDT)

Chantless would certainly be closer to the term used in the Japanese. 無詠唱　Vanant (talk) 04:19, 26 July 2014 (CDT)

Zenith Greyrat

Has a decision been made on the name of Rudy mother's name?

its zenith but they havent been updated yet

Made the update --Trev lite (talk) 23:49, 31 July 2014 (CDT)

Rudi or Rudy?

Since someone is changing Rudi to Rudy, we should at least get consensus on this. I prefer Rudi, but there's no real basis behind it. --DaiZzed (talk) 21:36, 30 July 2014 (CDT)

I prefer Rudi as well, that's what Paul uses, that's what Sylphy uses...

Though occasionally they cut Rudeus short in context to Rude as well it's usually a surprised speech or that sort when it comesu p.. --Dark Kaito (talk) 22:55, 30 July 2014 (CDT)

I prefer Rudy because it's the common spelling for the dimunitive form of Rudolph (also known as "I've met two people named Rudy and one more on the internet, but I've never come across a guy called Rudi"). That's probably because I don't speak any German though. At any rate, will continue translating it as such; editors can do whatever. Vanant (talk) 07:29, 2 August 2014 (CDT)

I know Rudy is usually a shortened form of Rudolph and probably Rudeus, plus I saw somewhere Rudi is usually a girl's name. -Marrow (talk) 08:36, 2 August 2014 (CDT)

Oh, just started reading volume 12. I see now why people said his name is probably Ludeus. Will we end up changing it to Ludeus or? Vanant (talk) 12:45, 2 August 2014 (CDT)

Think the author is a fan of FFIV? this character's name is familiar.... anyway Onizuka-gto can you just decide? I really don't mind either way, but we're split here and just need an executive decision on this. --DaiZzed (talk) 00:04, 3 August 2014 (CDT)

That seems like good evidence that the name should be Ludeus Grayrat (i would keep the nickname as Rudy though). I can do the work editing everything to say Ludeus if a change is to be made. --Trev lite (talk) 23:44, 2 August 2014 (CDT)

Umm.. so no one has caught the joke with his name yet either? 'Ludius' is the old Latin word for 'Player' MC's name is literally 'Player' as in Player 1. This extends to 'Ludi' as well. I like Rudeus though.--Skuizaan (talk) 17:28, 3 August 2014 (CDT)

My personal opinion is that Rudeus is more or less accepted and we should not change it this late in the story. (Lets all avoid and side step the L = R headache) As for it's shorten form, since the name "Rudeus" is already unique in some ways, i would prefer "Rude" as it's more of a logical shorten form of "Rudeus", on the other hand "Rudi" does indeed sound more feminine and finally "Rudy" is already associated with "Rudolph" so i would like to avoid using that. As mentioned before, we are dealing with a fictional names, so there really isn't any point trying to associate it with a real life established name, so Lets just keep it consistent, fiction names with fictional shorten forms and real names with real shorten names.

Regards,

Onizuka-GTO 21:31, 3 August 2014 (CDT)

I don't think "Rude" would be a good choice as that name is a negative adjective. Rudi is usually associated with females but I think we should go with it. Here's the reason why: Urban dictionary

"An extremely attractive guy that is very succesful at what he does. Can also be very funny and make people like him for making them feel good." "That guy is so goodlooking, he is such a Rudi"

The fact that some chapters use Rudi and others Rudy is driving me crazy. I hope a decision is made so that i can fix this problem. --Trev lite (talk) 23:37, 3 August 2014 (CDT)

Ah, i forgot that "Rude" is in English is someone who is not very polite! Sometime reading in the Japanese romanji method can be a bad habit. haha.

Okay, lets stick with "Rudi" then.

Onizuka-GTO 00:18, 5 August 2014 (CDT)

Fitts or Fitz

Seen both, clarification would be appreciated -Marrow (talk) 14:09, 31 July 2014 (CDT)

Since Fitts is derived from Fedoa's Region, we need to change the latter so that they match. SinsI (talk) 04:05, 1 August 2014 (CDT)

How is that ever going to work? Any ideas? Vanant (talk) 12:08, 2 August 2014 (CDT)

The Fedz. They're always looking out for you. --Dark Kaito (talk) 23:14, 2 August 2014 (CDT)

I will commence the standardization then. --Trev lite (talk) 23:45, 2 August 2014 (CDT)

there is some talk in vol 9 about the one requirement to become prince entourage is he/she must be a noble child, so they masquerading Sylphy as a bastard son of noble. and here "Fitz" name come to[reference to "Assassin Apprentice" by Robin Hobb, must read first half of that book to know the origin of "Fitz"] --zmunjali (talk)

Protection Art User Derrick Redbad

I haven't read past volume 11 yet, so if it turns out to be wrong, forgive me.

I was thinking that "Protection Art User" might be better worded as "Guard Magician" or "Guardian Magician". The reason is that there are two 'positions' for the guards; one is Guardian Knight（守護騎士, shugokishi） and the other is Protection Technique Expert （守護術師, shugojutsushi）. Unless Sylphy turns out to be practising some unique form of protection magic or other protection skills that a 守護騎士 wouldn't, I wonder if it wouldn't be better to consider 守護術師 as a shortened title for Guardian Magician （守護魔術師, shugomajutsushi）, since it's one knight and one magician.

Yes? No? Would be happy if someone who read ahead or knew more about the situation around the royal family responded. Vanant (talk) 08:57, 2 August 2014 (CDT)

I had changed it to Guardian Magician after the initial upload. After-edits must have changed it back. I was pondering over whether or not to leave it as Magician (since Jutsushi also does translate to Magician without needing the 'Ma' character) or try something class like Sorceror or Wizard or something, but then one of those two classes WOULD have really required it to be Ma-jutsushi. Any instances of Protection Art User, should be Guardian Magician to fit in theme with the whole fantasy world setting and knight/wizard entourage. --Skuizaan (talk) 17:05, 3 August 2014 (CDT)

Soldat

エレクトロゾルダート is Elektrosoldat because it is a German word, and in German 's' before a vowel is read as English 'z' (http://joycep.myweb.port.ac.uk/pronounce/consons.html). Are we sure that it has German reading here as well? Any others with German names in his party? SinsI (talk) 11:40, 2 August 2014 (CDT)

Oh, actually knew that. Guess I'm just tired. My bad. And I don't think it's a matter of his party being German themed; it's probably just because Backscratcher is an otaku, and so knows of Elektrosoldat (the character). His party and clan are lightning themed.

EDIT: Incidentally even googled this beforehand, so dunno what on earth I was thinking when I wrote that.

"...ゾルダート」の小説を読む. ゾルダート(Soldat)とは、ドイツ語で｢兵士、軍人｣の意である。 pixivでは主に｢ｱｰｲ!｣ことエレクトロゾルダートの絵につけられることが多いタグ。 ... pixivに投稿された作品 pixivで「ゾルダート」のイラストを見る · テスト; ゾル; ゆっくりし ..." Vanant (talk) 11:56, 2 August 2014 (CDT)

Trev_lite's Standardization

Moved stuff to a different page since it will get long fast. Trev_lite:Mushoku_Tensei_Terminology

Future stuff:

• Race and Tribe (awaiting final decision)
• ""s and []s (will hold off on this one since it will be a lot of work)
• Ariel's attendants' names (awaiting final decision)

--Trev lite (talk) 05:30, 6 August 2014 (CDT)

Discussion and requests go here:

King or Emperor ?

Since we are using "Saint" for magical/skill levels and "God" for the highest magical/skill level than i would prefer we stick to one.

I personally favour "Emperor" rather then "king".

Onizuka-GTO 21:51, 3 August 2014 (CDT)

Gonna sneak this in real quick to avoid some confusion. Ranks as it appears in vol.1 ch.3 in webnovel. 級 = Rank/Grade/Class

初級、Beginner (Elementary)

中級、Middle (Intermediate)

上級、Upper (Advanced)

聖級、Expert (Saint) <-- this kanji has 2+ reads, common are: Hijiri - (Master/Expert) and Sei - (Saint/Holy)

王級、King

帝級、Emperor

神級。God

--Skuizaan (talk) 22:24, 3 August 2014 (CDT)

Due to the often used double meanings in regards to holy/saintliness/sages I think it should remain Saint rather than Master/Expert. Emperor and King are two separate levels though as Skui said, with Emperor being one level above King. On the lower end I'm more of a fan of Elementary, Intermediate, and Advanced. --Dark Kaito (talk) 23:41, 4 August 2014 (CDT)

Perfect. Lets go with the above.

Onizuka-GTO 00:59, 5 August 2014 (CDT)

Incidentally, just the kanji itself has the connotation of expert, even disregarding on/kun reading uses. In the past they did use the 'term' 剣聖 after all. Vanant (talk) 01:29, 5 August 2014 (CDT)

I also noticed that about 聖級. By convention 剣聖/kensei would be translated now as "Sword Saint" but if you look that up in a dictionary there's an established translation, "master swordsman", and I think that's very close to what the author intended when, for example, he used it in the first Eris side story chapter. I believe that this probably happened because previous generations of Japanese attempted to figure out Western equivalents for Japanese cultural terms, and they ended up with religious words. --Myopius (talk) 09:11, 5 August 2014 (CDT)

Magic or Demon

Should magic race/continent be considered the official translation over demon race/continent. If so it should be added to the terminology page. I will do the conversion of the chapters once it is added. --Trev lite (talk) 22:41, 4 August 2014 (CDT)

Considering the author's background and Rudeus' background, I would wager that Demon Continent and Demon Race are closer to the intended meaning. Vanant (talk) 01:24, 5 August 2014 (CDT)

I'm of the same opinion and though I was using Magic to match the stuff up when I started on volume 3 with Silent, I've hesitated over it a lot (which is why it's edited as Demon on the map chapters). I think Demon makes the most sense... though in theory both work... There's always them Magic Lord/Kings after all.. though you don't hear about them often. I'll leave this one to someone else to decide. Magic Lord/King vs Demon Lord/King which makes more sense. --Dark Kaito (talk) 01:43, 5 August 2014 (CDT)

How does the issue of the Magic/Demon race/continent/language (Roxy as an example) compare to the issue of the Demon/Devil King/Emperor/God (Badigadi and Laplace as an example)? Also is there a difference in kanji between Demon God (Laplace), Demon God (Language) and Demon God (of mythology)? --Trev lite (talk) 01:50, 5 August 2014 (CDT)

Demon King/Lord are preference based Vanant and I use different ones but they refer to local region lords/kings in Demon Continent (Mao/Maou). Demon God(Majin) is a title similar to Dragon God/Human God/Sea God/Beast God, those are limited to one being, and at least in one case are known to be titles passed down by some unknown standard. The only Demon God ever specifically mentioned is Laplace. Though the way it is in the context is that he "inherited" that when he was born. The more confusing one is Kishirika Kishirisu, she uses Makai Mikado which would be Demon/Underworld/Hell Emperor/Empress, about the only case of that usage. Ma = Demon/Magic, the Demon/Magic God = Majin, all the languages except human language, are referred to by their Gods language, IE Demon God Language, Beast God Language, Fighting God Language, Sea God Language, only human language isn't referred to as Human God Language. Devil is generally only used when making one out to be evil or more evil for some purpose. Humans call the Supard races devils/demons (akuma), though it can have a similar meaning to Demon Race. Akuma(Evil Demon/Devil) vs Mazoku (Demon Race) --Dark Kaito (talk) 02:04, 5 August 2014 (CDT)

Also, throwing down some situations where you wouldn't change Magic: Magic Armor, Magic Item, Magic Tool, Magic Circle/Formation, Magic Crystal, Magic Stone, Magic Power, Magic Disturber and general references to magic as magic, like fire magic, etc.. --Dark Kaito (talk) 02:11, 5 August 2014 (CDT)

魔王、魔界、魔大陸、魔石 etc. are all of 'ma'. The reason I translate some as 'demon' and some as 'magic' is simply because this novel series is heavily influenced by rpgs.

In RPGs, 魔王(lit. 'ma' king) are always Demon King or Demon Lord in English versions.

In RPGs, 魔界(lit. 'ma' realm) is always Demon World or Demon Realm in English versions.

In RPGs, 魔力(lit. 'ma' power) is always mana or prana or MP.

Basically how I do it is look at the context and description of the place/item/whatever and decide if it would be 'Magic' or 'Demon' in an rpg. As you can see above, Kaito does the same, where he considers the context, and decides if it's a strict reference to 'magic', or if it's a general 'ma'(in which case you'd consider precedent i.e. RPGs).

For this reason, the 魔族 are almost undoubtedly 'demon race' because they live on the 魔大陸 which is compared to the 魔界 by Rudy. Incidentally, the 魔大陸 is lorded over by a bunch of 魔王, meaning that it's almost undeniably intended to be Demon Race living on the Demon Continent, lorded over by Demon Kings(Lord is less literally, but absolutely correct in light of RPGs) and a Great Empress of the Demon Realm.

It's for this reason, for example, that 迷宮(labyrinth) is translated as dungeon (despite definitely meaning 'labyrinth' and not 'dungeon' at all).

Edit: I think the main reason that there's even a discussion is because SilentWolfie was too devout a believer, and didn't want to liken Roxy to a demon, but yeah.

And yes, as Kaito mentions, the Japanese makes a clear distinction between 悪魔(devil/akuma, and what they call the Supeld) and the 魔族(demon race/demon clans).

Vanant (talk) 09:35, 5 August 2014 (CDT)

Badigadi/Bardy Gardy?

Simply put, i prefer "Badigadi"

The other one sounds like a bald cross dressing man in a pride parade.

Onizuka-GTO 00:21, 5 August 2014 (CDT)

Hell yes. That's all I have to say. If we're going to use Bardy Gardy, Rudeus needs to be renamed Roux'Deus. If people really have to try and find meaning behind the name just google it there's a legit place in the middle of a desert in the middle of nowhere that no one has ever heard of named Badigadi. It works. --Dark Kaito (talk) 00:44, 5 August 2014 (CDT)

Isn't his name supposed to be two words? BadiGadi, Badi-Gadi, Body Gody, Body Gaurdy, BadyGady, BaddyGaddy ... I have no idea how to romanize his name. --Trev lite (talk) 01:09, 5 August 2014 (CDT)

His name doesn't have the space in it that others do when they're spaced like Kishirika.Kishirisu. I'm not really one who can talk about kanji/kana/spacing but it always appeared differently than spaced names to me, it's a whole as Badigadi instead of Badi.Gadi. --Dark Kaito (talk) 01:15, 5 August 2014 (CDT)

The kana listed for his name is バーディ・ガーディ and has the name divider ・ symbol in it. Is this a mistake? --Trev lite (talk) 01:26, 5 August 2014 (CDT)

Fixed. Someone asked for his name earlier, and when I was typing it in, by habit... Vanant (talk) 01:27, 5 August 2014 (CDT)

Ok. I have no problems with Badigadi now. --Trev lite (talk) 01:32, 5 August 2014 (CDT)

我が名は魔王バーディガーディ！ /End

Possible etymological influences... Hurdy-gurdy (definition), bawdy gaudy. --Myopius (talk) 10:33, 5 August 2014 (CDT)

Jinas, Jenius, Jenas or Genus?

Lets settle this as well,

I'm just going to go with either "Jinas" or "Jenas"

its just a preference because "Jenius" sounds too close ti "Genius" and "Genus" just doesn't work with me, since i've only just got my head round to "Jinas" as the headmaster(?)...person. So lets just decide on one and move on.

Onizuka-GTO 01:02, 5 August 2014 (CDT)

I am all for Jinas. I already changed Jenas to Jinas so its less work for me. --Trev lite (talk) 01:10, 5 August 2014 (CDT)

Paul vs Paulo

Requesting the reasoning on why Paul is being changed to Paulo. (I think it is because the kana ends with a ro, not with a ru (which is a dummy vowel for kanaization)) --Trev lite (talk) 02:03, 5 August 2014 (CDT)

I did some research and パウロ and ポール are both kanaizations of Paul. ポール is used for the modern name Paul, while パウロ is used for the ancient name Paul. I think the reason is that the form パウロ is borrowed from Portuguese (for names of religious figures).

I think that the name Paul should be used since we refer to Pope Paul as Paul (not the Latin Paulus) and Paul the apostle as Paul (not the Greek Paulos). --Trev lite (talk) 02:24, 5 August 2014 (CDT)

@Trev, it's not a dummy vowel in this case. Paulo = Paul because the name is associated with the Christian figure, who was first brought to prominence in Japan via Portguese missionaries. A modern person named Paul would write their name as ポール. In the end it's just a matter of taste. I write Paul out of habit, but Paulo is arguably more correct. Vanant (talk) 09:24, 5 August 2014 (CDT)

"Mana calamity" or [insert other name]?

I've noticed there is two (or three?) names for this event, i forget where i saw it, so i just need some clarification of what this event should be called and stick to one.

Onizuka-GTO 23:01, 5 August 2014 (CDT)

This is another thing the author caused. He calls it at least 3-5 different names. Maryoku Saigai, Teni Jiken, Teni Saigai, Dai Saigai (Log Horizon?), Maryoku Tensai... Honestly, I can't even remember them all, but the reason they're all over the place isn't just a difference in translation on this one... so it would be pretty hard to differentiate. It might even change the meaning, if in one of the political chapters they refer to it as a "disaster" vs "incident" since it was made use of politically.

On the disaster end it could be incident, calamity, disaster, or natural disaster. But, I don't think these should be changed, calamity and disaster are interchangeable but natural disaster and incident are different in the context themselves tensai & jiken vs saigai (calamity/disaster).

Basically the only changes should be: instances where it's referred to as Metastasis/teleport, we should choose one: Teleport, Transfer, Shift, or Metastasis.

Also, in regards to mana it's up for question whether to leave that as mana or use magic power. Mana Calamity vs Magic Power Calamity/Disaster. (Both are maryoku saigai in the raws) --Dark Kaito (talk) 23:53, 5 August 2014 (CDT)

In case that ^ was confusing what I'm suggesting is basically, if we pick "Teleport", "Mana", and "Disaster".

Then teni jikens would all become "teleport incident", maryoku saigai, would become "mana disaster", teni saigai would become "teleport disaster", the other ones that refer to it as "natural disaster" should be left alone, though if they have metastasis or magic power then change them to "teleport" and "mana" accordingly. Mana vs Magic power, Disaster vs Calamity, Metastasis vs Teleport. --Dark Kaito (talk) 02:37, 6 August 2014 (CDT)

"Mana", "Teleport", "Disaster" and "incident" Sounds good to me, as long as there is consistency. Onizuka-GTO 04:06, 6 August 2014 (CDT)

I don't mind using "Teleport" at all, but perhaps we can add something to the terminology page that explains that (what we've been calling Metastasis) is actually time-and-space teleporting? Reaching vol 12, We've learned that the Metastasis Formations cause a time-lag or a natural passage of time while the person using them are being teleported. Metastasis conveys that idea to a degree that mere teleporting does not. It gets confusing, especially in the dungeon chapters where they are doing more "teleporting" of an closer-to-instantaneous nature than cross-continental teleporting, which invokes a perceivable time-lag.--Skuizaan (talk) 21:01, 10 August 2014 (CDT)

Roxy "Shisho" or "Master"?

Preferably "Master" since we have been going with "Master" or "Grandmaster" for certain titles, so i would like to keep it consistent.

Onizuka-GTO 23:03, 5 August 2014 (CDT)

there was a small talk about it on codebreaker talk page. to quote dark kaito "Just to throw this out as well if you've been changing shishou to master, I'd suggest avoiding it volume 7+, it might get mixed up with how Juli uses the Engrish word Master and Grandmaster to refer to Zanoba & Rudeus later, while Zanoba refers to Rudeus with the Japanese shishou same as Rudeus refers to Roxy. I don't think Zanoba wants you assuming he is Juli's Master (shishou) even though he is her Master. And you don't want to make Zanoba angry."

^ Yeah, Zanoba refers to Rudeus as shisho, and tells Julie to refer to himself as Master and Rudeus as Grand Master.

The way Rudeus refers to Roxy is different depending on when/where he uses it... sometimes it's shisho, sometimes it's sensei, other times it's kami. That one is a bit harder in her regard... I personally think sensei works the best for Rudeus referring to Roxy, I can't specifically remember how I've translated it... but I'd suggest sensei or shisho for Roxy. --Dark Kaito (talk) 23:45, 5 August 2014 (CDT)

I see, it make sense to make a difference from "Master" that is to Julie and "Kami" is given, so lets just settle for "Sensei" then, it's at least something English readers are familiar with that has a martial connotation (Besides "Sifu"). Onizuka-GTO 04:02, 6 August 2014 (CDT)

You can't make it sensei. There's a different in connotation between 'sensei' and 'shishou'. Imagine having both as 'sensei' and then reading the conversation where Roxy tells Rudy to call her 'sensei' and not 'shishou'.

I can understand your wish to simplify things for people with zero exposure to Japanese culture, but it just won't work in some cases, and sensei and shishou are completely different. It'd be like writing all instances of 'oiran' as 'geisha' in a story about Kabukichou. How well do you think this is gunna go?

Also it's just a personal preference, but would it be possible to use 'shishou' (or 'shishō' if you're insistent on looking professional)? Vanant (talk) 06:11, 6 August 2014 (CDT)

Seems like it's more complexed then i though, personally i'm not completely sure what's the difference between a "sensei" and a "shishou".

But i'll take your word for it, lets just leave it at "Shishou" then.

Onizuka-GTO 19:58, 6 August 2014 (CDT)

Trick God vs Technique God

Just opening these up now since I've seen differences here and there. I don't know the kanji/kana but I see it as Wazashin. Technique God, Art God (would confuse the meaning of the waza aspect like that like he's some sort of artistic god), Technique Divinity. Those are how I see this one, but otherwise more input would be good here. --Dark Kaito (talk) 19:17, 7 August 2014 (CDT)

I think it's meant to be gishin LOL(like 'gishin ni iru'), but anyway, I liked that you picked 'Technique God'. It doesn't have any weird interpretations that Art God might have (dude sitting there painting a fresco OTL) and is really easy to understand. Though someone might think 'wth is a technique god', once they get far enough in, they'll realise it's a perfect name.

Well, if you really aren't happy with it, may I suggest 'Skill God'?

'Trick God' might be taken as a trickster god, or as a god of petty tricks. Vanant (talk) 05:03, 8 August 2014 (CDT)

"Technique God" or "Skill God" is fine with me. Onizuka-GTO 07:42, 9 August 2014 (CDT)

Fighting God vs Battle God

The characters for this one always killed me, we've mostly used Fighting God in every case it came up the language, the seven world powers, etc... but would Battle or War fit the characters better? Up to others, but I think Fighting God has been used in over 90% of instances already so there's not so much arguments for this one. --Dark Kaito (talk) 19:17, 7 August 2014 (CDT)

I prefer 'Battle God' purely because 'Fighting God' sounds just a little (to me) as a god that's currently fighting. There's no such dissonance when I hear 'Battle God'. What does everyone else think? Vanant (talk) 05:01, 8 August 2014 (CDT)

I like "Battle God" as well. Onizuka-GTO 07:42, 9 August 2014 (CDT)

Touki/Tou-ki vs Fighting Spirit

This one I'm split on the most. We've been translating it directly as Fighting Spirit until now, but I have to admit it lacks impact as an "ability", when it comes up early on you just get the vague image of "willpower" when it's described as fighting spirit. Whether or not this should be left raw as touki/tou-ki or continued as Fighting Spirit. --Dark Kaito (talk) 19:17, 7 August 2014 (CDT)

For the record, I support use of 'touki', 1) because I've been indoctrinated by Hokuto no Ken, and 2) because it seems here rather than the meaning of 'fighting spirit', it's closer to 'battle ki'. i.e. a special type of 'ki' (Don't they shoot out touki to use the Longsword of Light? It's just like tenha kassatsu lol), 3) dude who did DxD also translated as 'touki'.

Vanant (talk) 04:59, 8 August 2014 (CDT)

I like "touki", also for the reason above@ (DxD!) Onizuka-GTO 07:43, 9 August 2014 (CDT)

Rudeus/Ludeus/Roux'Deus

Going by the initials he mentions in volume 12 or 13 or something, his name is probably supposed to be Ludeus or Loodeus or something. On the other hand, we're obviously going to do the whole

Luudeus + Shirufi = LuuShi = Lucy

crap anyway, so I don't feel there's a point to changing his name. We're not going with accuracy for this, so it's fine to just change the initials in the story to make it work.

Besides, Backscratcher is Japanese. Who's to say the guy even knows the difference between L and R trololol. Vanant (talk) 05:08, 8 August 2014 (CDT)

I think that Loux'Dayuz/Roux'Deus is silly. Rudeus or Ludeus should be used. --Trev lite (talk) 20:10, 23 August 2014 (CDT)

Race

should we stick with Long Ear tribe/race or Elf tribe/race? Ren (talk) 00:35, 9 August 2014 (CDT)

One of the early on chapters, I think in like volume 4-8 describes all of the races literally and how they are usually described. Almost all of the instances in text they are "described" refers to them as "child race" "long-ear race" "coal-mine race" and ones like those...

Since they sound pretty terrible I suggest going with what they were literally described as by Rudeus in the early volume. Hobbits, Dwarves, and Elves. It's easier to type when translating as well and it actually gets described as that in one of the chapters so it should be fine. --Dark Kaito (talk) 01:01, 9 August 2014 (CDT)

In the earlier chapters, they came with readings (that read elf, hobbit, dwarf) etc. The same way that they don't keep sticking readings next to 魔道具 and whatever the fuck stone bullet was, they stopped putting the readings next to the elf stuff.

But yeah, 'long eared tribe' is meant to be read as 'Elf'. By convention of most light novel translations, and most of this series, we use the reading for the translation. Vanant (talk) 04:41, 9 August 2014 (CDT)

Yes, might as well called these description for what they are. Just add them to the page then to keep it consistent. Onizuka-GTO 07:45, 9 August 2014 (CDT)

Consistency - tou-san/kaa-san/danna-sama

I've noticed a mixture of "tou-san" followed by "father" then "kaa-san" but then in another "nephew" and "daddy" and finally "danna-sama".

I would prefer we just stick to english or Japanese romanji, one or the other.

Onizuka-GTO 00:47, 13 August 2014 (CDT)

The same as always with this that's the authors doing switching around so often to cover the vague differences in respect/relationships.

Every so often he throws out Papa and Daddy as a joke in Engrish for Rudeus to refer to Paul, though generally Rudeus refers to Paul as tou-san, and Paul refers to himself as tou-san when talking to Rudeus. There's also the times when they chichi/chichiuya or whatever other spellings to refer to father and such.. the times when father comes up it's usually someone else referring to their relationship, like Gisu saying "your father". Danna-sama =husband/master, and Lilya uses it because she's both a maid and his wife, Gisu uses danna occasionally just to put himself "below" whoever he refers to as it like Rujierudo.

You'll probably notice but in these recent chapters Rudeus has completely switched over from shishou to calling Roxy sensei, that's not an error but it's something he either did consciously or subconsciously probably to refer to the distance between them closing.

I do admit it's a bit of a headache though so if the editors want to uniform them all they can, just saying that's how it is in context. --Dark Kaito (talk) 01:08, 13 August 2014 (CDT)

As for me, I use kaa-san, tou-san etc. when it's written that way, but if it refers to the concept of father, or if it's the humble (and hence "simple") form (chichi, haha, soba etc.), I'll write 'father', 'mother' and 'grandmother' etc.

Not sure if you're learning JP/reading the raws, Oni, but I hope this explains stuff for you. I'm pretty sure this is more or less what Kaito is doing as well (judging from his previous chapters, and what he's saying above). And yes, as he says, occasionally he does say stuff like 'papa' in joke monologues. Vanant (talk) 02:07, 13 August 2014 (CDT)

Unfortunately, my Japanese reading isn't anywhere to the point that i can read it off the cuff unless it's in romanji, and have a dictionary website out ready and lots and lots of spare time, to which i'm terribly lacking sadly. So i'm not aware of the word play the author is doing.

But just as Kaito mention, it's become dangerously headaching with all the switching from just reading the English.

So perhaps we can just settle on just a few, such as "tou-san" and "kaa-san" and "danna-sama", "danna" and "ojou-sama"? There is plenty of English words to describe the different forms of those words and both parents formally and informally. Such as "old man" or "dad" for informal (perhaps in a way Rudeus and paul refers to) and when he's trying to sum up the dignity of a male parent its more suited to refer to it as "Father".

"kaa-san" as well, lets just refer to it as "mum" or when paul is talking about Zenith to Rudeus it more of a formal "mother".

As for "danna-sama" i guess "husband" is formal enough then "Master of the household" or "Master".

Or as gisu referring with "danna" i suppose "Master" or "Sir" could be used?

I won't even touch the "onii-chan" or the "onii-sama" or "nii-san" or any "-sama" ending, i suppose its better to keep those inconsistency as its already pretty familiar romanji that the readers are aware of, that and there really isn't any english equivalent of "brother" to convey the honourifics nature.

"ojou-sama" can be easily substitute as "mistress" or "lady" depending on context.

Onizuka-GTO 02:32, 13 August 2014 (CDT)

True, true. Honestly it's my personal preference to use as little of these as possible, but during my time practising chapters concurrent to Kaito's translation, a few people told me that they preferred me to write 'nee-chan' over 'miss', 'onee-san' over 'miss', and 'ojou-chan' over 'miss', and 'jou-chan' over 'little missy' etc., and 'onii-san' over 'mister', so I forced myself to use them and just add little notes to explain the usage.

I honestly find it squirmy and jarring to write though. I can't believe it's come to this (or more like, that people don't do this more often), but can we set a cut-off for how weeaboo our terms of addressal should be?

Perhaps we should first separate shit into tiers, like:

Tier 1 [everyone knows this usage]
e.g. Nee-, Onee-, Tou-, Ojou-, -dono, -sama

Tier 2 [less people understand this usage]
e.g. Danna-sama (as master), Goshujin-sama (as master)

Tier 3 [few people understand this usage]
e.g. Oku-san, Danna-sama, Nee-chan (miss), Onii-san (mister), Jou-chan (little miss)

Exceptions due to circumstances
e.g. Shishou, Sensei

And having decided all this, fix everything in one go. :X

EDIT: "Such as "old man" or "dad" for informal"

The "problem" (I don't think it is personally) is that rather than a lack of informal terms, we're lacking in formal terms. 父上殿、父上様、父上、お父様、父様、お父さん、父さん, all of which would normally just be 'father' in English (excepting the first two which are sort of ridiculous, and unless you want to start using shit like 'esteemed father', 'honourable father' and the like). Incidentally, Paul is ...yeah, so if you want, we could just look at what has been used thus far, which would reduce the problem. Vanant (talk) 03:06, 13 August 2014 (CDT)

Perugiusu (ペルギウス)

Would like to suggest Perugius/Pergius → Pelugius (as the standard for all chapters) on account of Pelagius being a real name.

The Japanese text is one kana away: ペルギウス vs ペラギウス.

Vanant (talk) 05:14, 13 August 2014 (CDT)

Ruudo Ronumaa (ルード・ロヌマー)

Would like to propose translating the name ルード・ロヌマー and all further instances of the pseudonym ルード as Rude over Rudo, to reflect the long vowel. And yes, I'm aware that it's a word in English, but the professional localisers for FF7 didn't seem to think it a problem to use Rude as a name, but... is it really no good after all? I'm just a stickler for long vowels, and yes, I know sometimes they don't actually matter, but well... Vanant (talk) 05:22, 13 August 2014 (CDT)

B-but... Rudeus+Quagmire= The Evil Wizard Rudemire!!! not Ru-doronuma!!!! FUAHAHAHA!!!! But yeah Ru-do can be Rude, it works phonetically with most of the jokes anyway.--Skuizaan (talk) 21:30, 13 August 2014 (CDT)

I'm fine with "Rude" but perhaps adding the hyphen or something in between to help differentiate it from the English word would help with the reading? i.e. "Ru-de" or "Ru~de", which will also reflect the Japanese style?

Onizuka-GTO 21:43, 13 August 2014 (CDT)

p.s: We have to find a replacement for the four-tidal symbols, as it's popping translators signatures in scripts! lol.

Oh. I thought we were just going to give up on translating the joke lol. I mean, in the first place noone is going to know that doronuma = quagmire. It's like impossible to make it work in English lol. Rube Ogg. Ruke Wagmyer. LOL

As for the name, I was considering Rüde, since noone in English pronounces ü any different to u, but if there are any German readers out there, they might think the name is リュード or something. Vanant (talk) 08:51, 18 August 2014 (CDT)

"Rüde" is acceptable to me as well, just to give some indication that the meaning differ it from the english word (even though everyone will still read it as "rude") It's enough to give a visual cue.

Onizuka-GTO 20:05, 18 August 2014 (CDT)

Leo and Jirou/Giraud

What name should we stick and use for Leo? Holy Beast, Divine Beast or Sacred Beast? and was it Jirou or Giraud the name of the armadillo?

I'm not commenting on the title of Leo, Saint Beast might work as well if you want to do a bit of word play AKA Saint Beasts Byakko, but Vanant or Skui would be better for commenting on that. I will stone anyone who calls Jirou as Giraud. Giraud is what you get when you put the characters through a google search, his name is Jirou or Jiro. Dillo and Jirou sound similar in Japanese probably one of the reasons he ended up with that name. --Dark Kaito (talk) 13:02, 20 August 2014 (CDT)

I will call your bluff, and raise it.

I propose DGhis'KRohxs. The G, s, K, x and s are silent letters. Vanant (talk) 16:34, 20 August 2014 (CDT)

Detoxification or Antidote

I think we should really stick with either Detoxification or Antidote magic. though I think when hearing Antidote I only think of it only curing poison Ren (talk) 04:23, 19 August 2014 (CDT)

dedorudia/adorudia/dorudia デドルディア/アドルディア/ドルディア

Hihi, I was wondering if we couldn't change the 'ドルディア' bit from 'dorudia' to 'doldia'.

Dedorudia → Dedoldia
Adorudia → Adoldia
Dorudia → Doldia

It's just that I think dedorudia and adorudia might be bit of a mouthful, and IMO dedoldia and adoldia flow well (and I personally like the feeling in my mouth when I say them lmao).

Just a request.

Vanant (talk) 13:24, 22 August 2014 (CDT)

Dear Any-editors-with-nothing-better-to-do

I've just put in furigana versions for the spells, races, and items that have them.

These are the way they would be in a published version of the book, so please do go through Volume 1~19 and find any instances of these spells and items and replace them with the furigana versions that the great I have provided.

The race replacements will need more than haphazard ctrl+h or whatever, as they rely on context, and will need a more dedicated editor.

Guidelines for the use of the race have been given in three easy to understand examples.

お願いしまーす

Vanant (talk) 13:33, 22 August 2014 (CDT)