ばか！バカ！　馬鹿ー月！

Well, it's nice to know you're the one making the edits By all means, edit the wiki directly. If the editors find anything odd with it they'll bring it up somehow. No point posting your edits in the forums when you can just correct it off the wiki

HolyCow wrote:Well, it's nice to know you're the one making the edits By all means, edit the wiki directly. If the editors find anything odd with it they'll bring it up somehow. No point posting your edits in the forums when you can just correct it off the wiki

however, its good to discuss changes if you intend to rewrite the entire script, something Translators rarely have to justify....

In other words, if it's a major edit, feel free to post it here. If it's something minor, just edit the wiki directly

well not posted the entire list of edits, but at leased describe your intention, the reasons why you think it needs to have a m ajor overhaul of the wording of the script.

personally im not so sure whats the reason for you to reword the KnK script. so tell me, what's specificially wrong with it at the moment?

you say you are making it more "stylish",but stylish compared to what?

personally i think the script had its unique "style" already,

Sure, from now on I'll post a summary of what I've done and why in the discussion section of each page.

All credit to the translators, there is nothing "wrong" with the script per se, but large chunks of it feel very clunky and awkward to read. I'm trying to improve the consistency, and make it better suited as a piece of narrative work by applying a bit of convention. Removing "Buts" at the beginning of sentences, getting rid of repetition, and basic-sounding language, etc.

Most notably, there's a lot of hopping between tenses and perspectives a lot. I try to preserve this where possible, but there are some places where it just grinds the fluidity to a halt.

Anyway, some input from the translators would be good, as I can assume it feels a bit offensive that I'm tearing up big chunks of their work.

For example:

Original wrote:The dark clouds start to shower rain upon the earth. Raindrops make the night into a noisy one. Even though it's March, the rain is still cold. Among the wet bamboo leaves, Kokutoh Mikiya stares at the Ryohgi mansion. The hand holding his umbrella grows red and sore. Mikiya heaves a great sigh - even he doesn't plan on continuing this voyeuristic charade for much longer. It would be great if the killer were to be caught in the time that he was doing this, but Mikiya has decided to quit if nothing happens for another week.

ddrddr edit wrote:The dark clouds start to shower rain upon the earth. The countless droplets pattering against the ground send a clamor against the hazy night, and the cold air belies the typical March weather. Among the wet bamboo leaves, Kokutoh Mikiya stares at the Ryohgi mansion. The hand holding his umbrella grows red and sore, and he heaves a great sigh - even he doesn't plan on continuing this voyeuristic charade for much longer. It would be great if the killer were to be caught in the time that he was doing this, but Mikiya has decided to quit if nothing happens for another week.

That's not an edit, that's a total rewrite. I understand how one might feel the original doesn't "flow" very well or use great imagery, but remember that it's not in English either. This is a personal opinion, though... I'm very particular about staying as close to the original as possible even if the resulting English is a bit clunky.

Even though I'm somehow listed as the project administrator for KnK, I honestly had nothing to do with it up until this point (and I don't have any real powers beyond a normal editor anyway). So I think the translators should be the ones to decide how they want it edited.
=Smidge=

Having this:

... I have no basis, but I will continue to believe in you. I like you, so I want to keep on believing in you...

... What an immature answer. I said I had no basis, but I actually had one. I can declare that with confidence that she would not kill anyone, . Because Shiki knows the pain of murder. As she is the victim and the assailant. She knows more than anyone how sad murder is.

That's why I believe in her. Shiki, who does not get hurt; and SHIKI, who only has hurt.

... She was always so fragile, like she was about to get hurt. You could not even let out once your true feelings...

Become this:

I remember that day when Shiki and I were talking in the classroom as the sun set. She asked me what part of her I could believe in. I repeat my answer from back then.

... I have no basis for it, but I will continue to believe in you. I like you, so I want to keep on believing in you...

...What an immature answer. I had said I had no basis, but of course I did. I can declare with confidence that she would never kill anyone, because Shiki herself knows the pain of murder.

She is the victim and the assailant. She knows more than anyone how grievous murder is.

That's why I believe in her. Shiki, who can not be harmed; and SHIKI, who only knows harm.

She was always so fragile, like she was about to be hurt.

Is not an edit - It's a complete overhaul, and, as TheGiftedMonkey would have put it, a lot of 'fluff'.

I personally think that translations should be kept as close as possible to the original. Adding in a couple of lines here and there, and shifting the order of sentences around doesn't seem quite faithful to the original to me. While moving one sentence further down a paragraph once in a while is still acceptable (It's something I've done in the past), I don't think shifting an entire paragraph up is a wise idea.

But in the end I suppose this is Alyers's script, so the final call is up to him...

The second one looks better, but I have no idea whats going on in the text so I'm not too sure if it works better for the story or not.

Smidge204 wrote:That's not an edit, that's a total rewrite. I understand how one might feel the original doesn't "flow" very well or use great imagery, but remember that it's not in English either. This is a personal opinion, though... I'm very particular about staying as close to the original as possible even if the resulting English is a bit clunky.

Even though I'm somehow listed as the project administrator for KnK, I honestly had nothing to do with it up until this point (and I don't have any real powers beyond a normal editor anyway). So I think the translators should be the ones to decide how they want it edited.
=Smidge=

Those are both my edits/rewrites that you've quoted.

In any case, I admit I got totally carried away with that scene.

Any word from the translators yet?

No problems on my part on you thrashing out all the clumsy bits. On my part I'm trying to make the next chapter flow a bit better by rewriting bits of it into proper english, instead of using a straightforward translation.

I was planning to do things a bit faster but I got a bit side-tracked due to some personal matters, right now I've only got about 60% of chapter 4 completed and it looks like I wont be able to really get around to finishing it for about another week or so. I'll have a month or so after that to do some more work before I have to hit the books again for finals . Still I'll be more then happy to work with anyone who wants to change things in the chapters, I think I can spare that much time at least .


EDIT: Uh by the way is that part even from one of my scripts? It looks more like its from chapter 2, those were done by TakaJun! And I must admit, during translating I believe that people try to stick to the original feel of the words as much as our ability lets us. I'm not saying that the translations are perfect, or even very good, just that Nasu has a certain style of writing that sometimes makes the sentences seem a little funny when they are read. In some cases in return for not being very grammatically accurate it can make some very beautiful lines.

As long as you are fine with it, we have no problems.

and if you don't have much time, just continue doing straight-translations.

After all, if you start cleaning it up, before you publish them, how can the poor Baka-Tsuki Editors feed their families?

(I do pay them 0.0006 Admiration points per-sentence-per-edit, just enuff to pay me back for B-T editor privilages and wiki access. )

So be charitable, let the clumbsy script roll.

:p

Good stuff, thanks.

Glad to see I'm not stepping on any toes.

The way the chapters are set up scare me from even starting to read it.

eh? tgm scared? amazing.

keep up the good work alyeris, my anti-TGM spamming project might actually have a glimmer of hope.....

Quick question.

Are we going with "Ryougi Shiki" or "Ryohgi Shiki"? It seems to swap from the former to the latter in chapter 3.

"Ryougi" seems nicer, to be honest.

edit: As does Kokuto. Can I have the go-ahead to go back and standardise the previous chapters?