I'm seriously doubting Kyon's normalcy XD

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HAL9000
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Post by HAL9000 »

magus wrote:Yuki is fasinating because......... she has the Rei complex. She knows and have emotions but don't have a solid way to express them. That's one of the biggest selling point out of the big5 d(-_-*).
Although I'm unfamiliar with the "Rei Complex", I can't say the description matches my interpretation of the character (which is no more correct than any other). I view Yuki as having some flavor of Autism- she views the world a little differently than most, and her idea of how to express thoughts and emotions differs from us. She probably thinks she's expressing herself, just not in a standard way. (Note that in the anime of Lone Island Syndrome, Yuki's "I love you" was the same both before and after Haruhi told her to put feeling into it; Yuki did not hesitate or look confused at the advice, she just did it again.)

Someone who has feelings but doesn't know how to let them out sounds like something of a stereotype. Going into silent mode hasn't been done to death (like putting up an unconcerned or cynical facade), but it's still a rather shallow characterization.
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Post by ainsoph9 »

What do you mean by "a flavor of Autism" HAL9000? To my knowledge, Nagato is nowhere near being autistic. She does show signs of being withdrawn and close-hearted, but not exactly autistic.
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Post by Dan »

HAL9000 wrote:Also, I think Yuki is aware of her feelings. She's too professional to do anything about it (except for that one incident where she destroyed and recreated all of reality), but she has to be aware of that warm internal glow that manifests whenever she looks at her library card.
Ahahaha! I like the way you put that last bit. :lol:
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Post by daitenshi_synbios »

ainsoph9 wrote:She does show signs of being withdrawn and close-hearted, but not exactly autistic.
Her withdrawn personality may have been designed by the Integrated Sentient Data Entity, and without Kyon's constant interactions with Yuki, she may have stayed an emotionless robotic bookworm. However, perhaps because of Kyon, the girl begins to show that she is capable of human emotion. Miniscule though her emotional changes may be, they do factor greatly as part of her personal growth, 'evolving', in short.

For all we know, give her a few years with Kyon, she may even begin speaking more about 'normal' subjects, instead of the usual stuff related to data fluctuation reports.
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Post by Dan »

daitenshi_synbios wrote:For all we know, give her a few years with Kyon, she may even begin speaking more about 'normal' subjects, instead of the usual stuff related to data fluctuation reports.
Ha! I could do that...in one night! :lol:
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Post by HAL9000 »

ainsoph9 wrote:What do you mean by "a flavor of Autism" HAL9000? To my knowledge, Nagato is nowhere near being autistic. She does show signs of being withdrawn and close-hearted, but not exactly autistic.
My only knowledge of such disorders comes soley from Time and Newsweek magazines, but I did't mean to say she's actually autistic (although she does display a sampling of the symptoms). I was just trying to evoke a general brain-development incongruity. You could even point to some similarities with mentally retarded math-geniuses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism_spe ... tic_traits
daitenshi_synbios wrote:For all we know, give her a few years with Kyon, she may even begin speaking more about 'normal' subjects, instead of the usual stuff related to data fluctuation reports.
Heck, the Integrated Sentient Data Entity itself is being corrupted. It assigned a name to the Canopy Domain, while Yuki's writing in Book 8 implied that names were something unique to humanity. (That's one of the few things I'm certain about in that thing.) At this rate, Kyon's going to deflower the whole data-based plane of existance.
Dan wrote:
HAL9000 wrote:Also, I think Yuki is aware of her feelings. She's too professional to do anything about it (except for that one incident where she destroyed and recreated all of reality), but she has to be aware of that warm internal glow that manifests whenever she looks at her library card.
Ahahaha! I like the way you put that last bit. :lol:
Thank you.
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Post by Fushichou »

Ok, fine.

I admit it.

Yuki is freaking awesome.
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Post by quigonkenny »

Here are my thoughts on the inner workings of Kyon's current (as of Volume 9) "harem," with apparent feelings on both sides and likelihood of eventual pairings. Spoiler tags are mostly for size, but there's a little Sasaki stuff in there that probably shouldn't be read if you haven't read Volume 9.
Spoiler! :
Kyon's feelings for Tsuruya: Physically attracted, certainly. She's hot. She's interesting to him beyond that if only due to her near superhuman perceptiveness, combined with her complete willingness to not get involved. She's the anti-Haruhi in that respect, which has got to make him more attracted on a certain level, but I think they have the makings for good friends much more than anything romantic.
Tsuruya's feelings for Kyon: Interesting. He's the eye of the storm, in her eyes, making her probably the one character in the series whose point-of-view most closely matches that of the readers, despite the fact that Kyon narrates. She keeps her feelings close to her chest, but is not above a little flirting here and there. I think she could eventually have romantic feelings for him, but not at this point.
Kyon x Tsuruya likelihood? Low. She's clearly the dark horse of the four main female characters, but as SHUFFLE! taught us, never count the green-haired senpai out. She'd certainly be my choice, were I in Kyon's shoes.

Kyon's feelings for Mikuru: Physically attracted to and beyond the point of infatuation. Cares for her a great deal (moreso for small than big), but sees her as unattainable due mostly to her attractiveness, her intrinsic impermanence (both from her higher school grade and her future origin), and (for different reasons than Mikuru, due to his thickheadedness) Haruhi's wrath. Is also somewhat scared by Mikuru (big) and might be trying to do something about her. Perfectly happy to protect Mikuru (small) and put her up on an unattainable pedestal, because it's safe.
Mikuru's feelings for Kyon: One of two possibilities. One, she's madly in love with him, borne from her admiration for him as a historical figure (in her time) and his not completely non-existent charms, but she's forced daily to remember that for her moreso than for him, a relationship is unattainable, if for no other reason than it might remove her from existence. Or two, this is all a big charade on her part to toy with his feelings to get the result her superiors want. It's a little dark for this series, and a militantly Kyonist opinion (which I don't share), but the groundwork is there for the possibility to exist.
Kyon x Mikuru likelihood? Low, without massive changes to the plot. She (small, at least) is going to be leaving this series eventually, probably some time before the end, and her leaving will be so sad as to make the end of that one episode of FMA (you all know which I mean) look like the funniest episode of Keroro Gunso. It's just not meant to be. Maybe Kyon'll get lucky and get a piece before that happens... Just kidding.

Kyon's feelings for Sasaki: Good Friend. Maybe he has deeper feelings hidden underneath, but if so, he doesn't know they're there. And the presence of the Dark SOS isn't helping. Depending on the events in Vol 10, we may see something grow in the future, but I doubt it.
Sasaki's feelings for Kyon: Unclear. She may be even more emotionally stunted than Yuki, because Yuki at least has an excuse. She's emotionally immature, is far too self-deprecating, and, most tellingly, her omnipresent, vacant, dead Closed Space just creeps me (and Kyon) the hell out. She may be more interested in Kyon than in any other male, but is that really saying anything?
Kyon x Sasaki likelihood? Short term? Mid-to-Low. Possible depending on the events in the β timeline of Volume 10, but nearly impossible in α. Long term? Zero. These stories are "The xxxx of Haruhi Suzumiya," not "...of Sasaki Whatshername." There's a good chance "God" put her here only to be the love rival that every anime/manga/light novel heroine worth her salt has to face at least once, and she's not doing a very convincing job in that part so far. Miyokichi has had better buildup.

Kyon's feelings for Yuki: Quite a bit more than he's willing to admit, I'd bet, but conflicted. He trusts her implicitly, but there's still that little niggling bit of doubt, that worry that she's going to go "Disappearance" Yuki on him again or that the IDSE might decide to reformat her into the Ryoko File System, that makes him keep his distance. He's very protective toward her, even moreso than for Mikuru, for those reasons.
Yuki's feelings for Kyon: As strong as they can possibly be for a being who isn't supposed to have them. And therein lies the problem. She isn't 100% clear on the concept of love, much less how to act on it. The one time she tried, she almost killed him, and it caused her to institute some pretty draconian safeguards (some of which I'm betting we haven't yet seen) to make sure she doesn't do it again. She's the only character in the series that we can safely, unequivocably say is "in love with" Kyon, and it scares the s**t out of her.
Kyon x Yuki likelihood? Fair. The only character besides Haruhi that can be said to have anything but a remote chance at Kyon, which is not surprising, as she is the only SOS member outside of Kyon and Haruhi to show any real character development, and in many ways has shown more than those two. Also, as Haruhi has shown strong protective feelings for her, she's somewhat safe, in the respect that a relationship with her would probably not end the world. It has been said that she is the author's favorite, and she is certainly the sentimental favorite, because everyone loves a robot love story. These are the stories "of Haruhi Suzumiya," but last minute switcheroos and "favorites" coming in second are not unheard of in the harem genre...

Kyon's feelings for Haruhi: Definitely attracted both physically and emotionally, but she scares the crap out of him, and annoys him to no end. Despite the fact that he has kissed her, he tries to convince himself that it was only to save his own skin, and if he keeps it up, may eventually succeed. I don't think he'd turn down a second chance, however.
Haruhi's feelings for Kyon: She wants him. Bad. Only problem is, she's emotionally insecure and immature (I'm seeing a pattern), and can only resolve those feelings in aggression, denial, and depression (melancholy, if you will). The question is, what is more horrifying? Her reaching emotional maturity and facing her love of Kyon after she finds out her abilities, or before?
Kyon x Haruhi likelihood? Fair-to-High. She is in the title, after all. Plus, she's the Tsundere, which is like MVP and Batting Champ rolled into one. She needs a little more maturity (of course, so does Kyon), but I can see a "GOOD END" in her future (if anyone is going to get one). But that's only the destination. The real story is in the trip there.
Thoughts?
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Post by Fushichou »

quigonkenny wrote:Here are my thoughts on the inner workings of Kyon's current (as of Volume 9) "harem," with apparent feelings on both sides and likelihood of eventual pairings. Spoiler tags are mostly for size, but there's a little Sasaki stuff in there that probably shouldn't be read if you haven't read Volume 9.
Spoiler! :
Kyon's feelings for Tsuruya: Physically attracted, certainly. She's hot. She's interesting to him beyond that if only due to her near superhuman perceptiveness, combined with her complete willingness to not get involved. She's the anti-Haruhi in that respect, which has got to make him more attracted on a certain level, but I think they have the makings for good friends much more than anything romantic.
Tsuruya's feelings for Kyon: Interesting. He's the eye of the storm, in her eyes, making her probably the one character in the series whose point-of-view most closely matches that of the readers, despite the fact that Kyon narrates. She keeps her feelings close to her chest, but is not above a little flirting here and there. I think she could eventually have romantic feelings for him, but not at this point.
Kyon x Tsuruya likelihood? Low. She's clearly the dark horse of the four main female characters, but as SHUFFLE! taught us, never count the green-haired senpai out. She'd certainly be my choice, were I in Kyon's shoes.

Kyon's feelings for Mikuru: Physically attracted to and beyond the point of infatuation. Cares for her a great deal (moreso for small than big), but sees her as unattainable due mostly to her attractiveness, her intrinsic impermanence (both from her higher school grade and her future origin), and (for different reasons than Mikuru, due to his thickheadedness) Haruhi's wrath. Is also somewhat scared by Mikuru (big) and might be trying to do something about her. Perfectly happy to protect Mikuru (small) and put her up on an unattainable pedestal, because it's safe.
Mikuru's feelings for Kyon: One of two possibilities. One, she's madly in love with him, borne from her admiration for him as a historical figure (in her time) and his not completely non-existent charms, but she's forced daily to remember that for her moreso than for him, a relationship is unattainable, if for no other reason than it might remove her from existence. Or two, this is all a big charade on her part to toy with his feelings to get the result her superiors want. It's a little dark for this series, and a militantly Kyonist opinion (which I don't share), but the groundwork is there for the possibility to exist.
Kyon x Mikuru likelihood? Low, without massive changes to the plot. She (small, at least) is going to be leaving this series eventually, probably some time before the end, and her leaving will be so sad as to make the end of that one episode of FMA (you all know which I mean) look like the funniest episode of Keroro Gunso. It's just not meant to be. Maybe Kyon'll get lucky and get a piece before that happens... Just kidding.

Kyon's feelings for Sasaki: Good Friend. Maybe he has deeper feelings hidden underneath, but if so, he doesn't know they're there. And the presence of the Dark SOS isn't helping. Depending on the events in Vol 10, we may see something grow in the future, but I doubt it.
Sasaki's feelings for Kyon: Unclear. She may be even more emotionally stunted than Yuki, because Yuki at least has an excuse. She's emotionally immature, is far too self-deprecating, and, most tellingly, her omnipresent, vacant, dead Closed Space just creeps me (and Kyon) the hell out. She may be more interested in Kyon than in any other male, but is that really saying anything?
Kyon x Sasaki likelihood? Short term? Mid-to-Low. Possible depending on the events in the β timeline of Volume 10, but nearly impossible in α. Long term? Zero. These stories are "The xxxx of Haruhi Suzumiya," not "...of Sasaki Whatshername." There's a good chance "God" put her here only to be the love rival that every anime/manga/light novel heroine worth her salt has to face at least once, and she's not doing a very convincing job in that part so far. Miyokichi has had better buildup.

Kyon's feelings for Yuki: Quite a bit more than he's willing to admit, I'd bet, but conflicted. He trusts her implicitly, but there's still that little niggling bit of doubt, that worry that she's going to go "Disappearance" Yuki on him again or that the IDSE might decide to reformat her into the Ryoko File System, that makes him keep his distance. He's very protective toward her, even moreso than for Mikuru, for those reasons.
Yuki's feelings for Kyon: As strong as they can possibly be for a being who isn't supposed to have them. And therein lies the problem. She isn't 100% clear on the concept of love, much less how to act on it. The one time she tried, she almost killed him, and it caused her to institute some pretty draconian safeguards (some of which I'm betting we haven't yet seen) to make sure she doesn't do it again. She's the only character in the series that we can safely, unequivocably say is "in love with" Kyon, and it scares the s**t out of her.
Kyon x Yuki likelihood? Fair. The only character besides Haruhi that can be said to have anything but a remote chance at Kyon, which is not surprising, as she is the only SOS member outside of Kyon and Haruhi to show any real character development, and in many ways has shown more than those two. Also, as Haruhi has shown strong protective feelings for her, she's somewhat safe, in the respect that a relationship with her would probably not end the world. It has been said that she is the author's favorite, and she is certainly the sentimental favorite, because everyone loves a robot love story. These are the stories "of Haruhi Suzumiya," but last minute switcheroos and "favorites" coming in second are not unheard of in the harem genre...

Kyon's feelings for Haruhi: Definitely attracted both physically and emotionally, but she scares the crap out of him, and annoys him to no end. Despite the fact that he has kissed her, he tries to convince himself that it was only to save his own skin, and if he keeps it up, may eventually succeed. I don't think he'd turn down a second chance, however.
Haruhi's feelings for Kyon: She wants him. Bad. Only problem is, she's emotionally insecure and immature (I'm seeing a pattern), and can only resolve those feelings in aggression, denial, and depression (melancholy, if you will). The question is, what is more horrifying? Her reaching emotional maturity and facing her love of Kyon after she finds out her abilities, or before?
Kyon x Haruhi likelihood? Fair-to-High. She is in the title, after all. Plus, she's the Tsundere, which is like MVP and Batting Champ rolled into one. She needs a little more maturity (of course, so does Kyon), but I can see a "GOOD END" in her future (if anyone is going to get one). But that's only the destination. The real story is in the trip there.
Thoughts?
Perfect.

Besides, I didn't think the ending for shuffle was all that bad...
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ainsoph9
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Post by ainsoph9 »

You know, maybe we should make a dating sim of SHnY. Then, everyone can be happy. For those who want any given relationship, they can have it. All we would need to do is post the "flags" for the character routes, and we would have it.
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Post by Fushichou »

ainsoph9 wrote:You know, maybe we should make a dating sim of SHnY. Then, everyone can be happy. For those who want any given relationship, they can have it. All we would need to do is post the "flags" for the character routes, and we would have it.
That would be such a stupid game...
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Post by quigonkenny »

Phoenix14 wrote:Besides, I didn't think the ending for shuffle was all that bad...
Neither did I. Personally, I thought the eventual winner was the most interesting of the choices. She just wasn't the obvious choice, which is who usually does win.
ainsoph9 wrote:You know, maybe we should make a dating sim of SHnY. Then, everyone can be happy. For those who want any given relationship, they can have it. All we would need to do is post the "flags" for the character routes, and we would have it.
I'm sure there are a few fan-made Haruhi dating games out already, and I know there are a couple eroge games out that aren't technically Haruhi games, but might as well be, given the unabashed similarities between character names and appearances. As for an official game, there'll probably be at least one eventually.
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Post by Florin »

quigonkenny: Great analysis. You forgot Kyon/Itsuki though :wink:
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Post by daitenshi_synbios »

Florin wrote:quigonkenny: Great analysis. You forgot Kyon/Itsuki though :wink:
Spoiler! :
Kyon's feelings for Itsuki: Kyon dislikes Itsuki for his annoying philosophical diatribes, not to mention that there are times when Itsuki simply gives Kyon the goosebumps...in a non-positive way.
Itsuki's feelings for Kyon: Itsuki's gay for Kyon...often to the point of making 'suggestive' overtures towards him. 'Nuff said.
Kyon x Itsuki likelihood: Unless Tanigawa Nawaru suddenly turns this shonen story into a yaoi(in which case, I will raid his apartment for whatever he is smoking and dispose of the chemical culprit)...then NO.
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Post by Fushichou »

daitenshi_synbios wrote:
Florin wrote:quigonkenny: Great analysis. You forgot Kyon/Itsuki though :wink:
Spoiler! :
Kyon's feelings for Itsuki: Kyon dislikes Itsuki for his annoying philosophical diatribes, not to mention that there are times when Itsuki simply gives Kyon the goosebumps...in a non-positive way.
Itsuki's feelings for Kyon: Itsuki's gay for Kyon...often to the point of making 'suggestive' overtures towards him. 'Nuff said.
Kyon x Itsuki likelihood: Unless Tanigawa Nawaru suddenly turns this shonen story into a yaoi(in which case, I will raid his apartment for whatever he is smoking and dispose of the chemical culprit)...then NO.
Well said.
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