shichinanatsu wrote:seems i set some fuses off.. i admit that i haven't been overly watchful of my words, so i'll try pulling off some damage control. 'rape is downright wrong' was something i thought of when put into context of a loose merger of all the world's cultures - a collective consciousness if you will.
Hahahahhahahaha no.
"Rape is wrong" is still a relatively modern concept, much like "equality for women". The two tend to go hand in hand, actually.
If you were referring to a collective consciousness of "America, the West, and all countries under their sphere of influence" then, yes, you'd be right.
But look at all the male-dominated countries in Africa and Asia... how many of them do you think actually have anti-rape laws and/or perceive it as wrong?
Nothing is bad or good. Things are just the way they are. But we still shouldn't push our morality on people who don't want it, which is what caused this entire eroge mess in the first place.
ok, rape is wrong. to force other to commit sexual acts when they do not want to is wrong, and anyone who does that should be punished.
but this isnt even about rape against other people
this started out with a group going against rape simulators. Which even though i think rape simulators are disgusting, banning them is too much. What people do in their own homes, not affecting anyone else, is something for them only; you shouldnt make it illegal when what they are doing does not harm anyone else. Just because you do not like it, does not mean you should force your views on everyone else and stop other people from doing things just because you dont like it.
o and another thing. there is no prove that by playing something like a rape simulator, that you would go out and start raping people in real life.
The idea that "rape is wrong" is not a Western idea. Think about this.
If we consider Western justice to be associated with religion, we are wrong. We don't need, in my view, a higher deity to tell us anything.
Put yourselves in the shoes of a caveman. You just killed someone. Why does this feel wrong? Because you find pleasure in life, and so does that person. You just caused that person pain and cut their life short. Another situation, you just stole his crops. Why do you feel bad? Because you just took something that someone else worked hard to create, something they created to ensure their survival.
Now think of this. You just raped someone. Why do you feel bad? Because that person obviously didn't want to do anything sexual with you and you didn't even bother to regard their personal feelings. Rapists are selfish bastards that ruin the emotional lives of others. There isn't any "oh, but this is in a different culture" aspect about it.
Rectifier wrote:Rape disrupts society and therefore is a threat to civilization itself.
It isn't just a moral argument.
Actually using some terminology from my ethics course, this would fall under "moral contract", which is necessary for any coherent society. Some will argue against it, but no objective stance would stand up to reality concerning rape, killing, and stealing. Certainly killing and stealing can be justified in some instances, but I cannot think of one good reason rape would be allowable.
Rectifier wrote:I'm not even going there, if one person messes up the lives of others, he deserves to be punished based on how much he screws them (pun unintended).
LOL I agree completely. For a small bit of pleasue, you ruined someone's entire life. That can't be allowed.
"Rape is wrong" is still a relatively modern concept, much like "equality for women". The two tend to go hand in hand, actually.
If you were referring to a collective consciousness of "America, the West, and all countries under their sphere of influence" then, yes, you'd be right.
But look at all the male-dominated countries in Africa and Asia... how many of them do you think actually have anti-rape laws and/or perceive it as wrong?
Nothing is bad or good. Things are just the way they are. But we still shouldn't push our morality on people who don't want it, which is what caused this entire eroge mess in the first place.
What are you saying? You're spouting nonsense and hoping no one will check your facts or logic? What's recent? Rape was in Greek mythology, and it was still bad then. The Rape of Naking occured before any women's rights movement in the east, and it was condemned back then.
Since when do laws have to be moral or follow moral standards? If everyone ignored others because they didn't want to impose their morals on them, then it'd be a pretty crappy world.
"Rape is wrong" is still a relatively modern concept, much like "equality for women". The two tend to go hand in hand, actually.
If you were referring to a collective consciousness of "America, the West, and all countries under their sphere of influence" then, yes, you'd be right.
But look at all the male-dominated countries in Africa and Asia... how many of them do you think actually have anti-rape laws and/or perceive it as wrong?
Nothing is bad or good. Things are just the way they are. But we still shouldn't push our morality on people who don't want it, which is what caused this entire eroge mess in the first place.
What are you saying? You're spouting nonsense and hoping no one will check your facts or logic? What's recent? Rape was in Greek mythology, and it was still bad then. The Rape of Naking occured before any women's rights movement in the east, and it was condemned back then.
Since when do laws have to be moral or follow moral standards? If everyone ignored others because they didn't want to impose their morals on them, then it'd be a pretty crappy world.
unfortuantely it is already a crappy world cept we have the internet to bash the world how crappy it is
Rectifier wrote:I'm not even going there, if one person messes up the lives of others, he deserves to be punished based on how much he screws them (pun unintended).
Ah, but that's what you think, because that's what Western society has raised you to believe.
Other societies may find our criminal justice system inefficient or abhorrent. It all depends.
We really should not be forcing our moral standards on the Japanese. It gets people upset when their worldview is fucked with.
No, I'm basing this purely on a numbers game, rapists decrease the chance for society to function normally, and lowers the survival rate for everyone.
Ex. I don't want someone's selfish actions (since rape is a form of self-satisfaction) to alter my life. It happens often enough with politicians and a laundry list of other people, why should some other selfish person do that too?
I'd go for what the basis of the act of "rape" is on.
Forced intercourse.
If the victim somehow submits him/herself to the assaulter's will (and somehow enjoy getting screwed), it's consensual.
If not, then it's rape.
... Since judgement of rape somehow has always been like that, it's difficult to seek who's really guilty in these kinds of cases. A woman can have consensual intercourse with who would be a would-be rapist, then frame him after she's done with him, and it's very easily done. Not to mention the norm of society seems to find things "to go the other way round" as an occurence which is impossible (or hard) to happen...
.... great, now my fear of such cases is increasing tenfold. I should've stayed my eyes off this topic!
This is a place holder to God knows when this owner will change his signature, if he ever thinks of it.
Assassin wrote:I'd go for what the basis of the act of "rape" is on.
Forced intercourse.
If the victim somehow submits him/herself to the assaulter's will (and somehow enjoy getting screwed), it's consensual.
If not, then it's rape.
... Since judgement of rape somehow has always been like that, it's difficult to seek who's really guilty in these kinds of cases. A woman can have consensual intercourse with who would be a would-be rapist, then frame him after she's done with him, and it's very easily done. Not to mention the norm of society seems to find things "to go the other way round" as an occurence which is impossible (or hard) to happen...
.... great, now my fear of such cases is increasing tenfold. I should've stayed my eyes off this topic!
you fear your sex time could be rape time? leading to court time?
Last edited by b0mb3r on Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Assassin wrote:I'd go for what the basis of the act of "rape" is on.
Forced intercourse.
If the victim somehow submits him/herself to the assaulter's will (and somehow enjoy getting screwed), it's consensual.
If not, then it's rape.
... Since judgement of rape somehow has always been like that, it's difficult to seek who's really guilty in these kinds of cases. A woman can have consensual intercourse with who would be a would-be rapist, then frame him after she's done with him, and it's very easily done. Not to mention the norm of society seems to find things "to go the other way round" as an occurence which is impossible (or hard) to happen...
.... great, now my fear of such cases is increasing tenfold. I should've stayed my eyes off this topic!
you fear our sex time could be rape time? leading to court time?
Whoah, whoah...Where are we going with this? Are you guys doing something behind the community's back?
Fushichou wrote:
Whoah, whoah...Where are we going with this? Are you guys doing something behind the community's back?
holy crap. >_<. i must apologize. when i meant sex time. i meant "your" sex time. not "our" sex time. i didn't in no means imply we are gay. though the college i go is gay and i do have gay friends. sorry assassin and all those interpret wrongly
Assassin wrote:I'd go for what the basis of the act of "rape" is on.
Forced intercourse.
If the victim somehow submits him/herself to the assaulter's will (and somehow enjoy getting screwed), it's consensual.
If not, then it's rape.
... Since judgement of rape somehow has always been like that, it's difficult to seek who's really guilty in these kinds of cases. A woman can have consensual intercourse with who would be a would-be rapist, then frame him after she's done with him, and it's very easily done. Not to mention the norm of society seems to find things "to go the other way round" as an occurence which is impossible (or hard) to happen...
.... great, now my fear of such cases is increasing tenfold. I should've stayed my eyes off this topic!
in the US court system, if the girl says "no" even once
even if she dosnt mean it or is just talking dirty or whatever
Assassin wrote:I'd go for what the basis of the act of "rape" is on.
Forced intercourse.
If the victim somehow submits him/herself to the assaulter's will (and somehow enjoy getting screwed), it's consensual.
If not, then it's rape.
... Since judgement of rape somehow has always been like that, it's difficult to seek who's really guilty in these kinds of cases. A woman can have consensual intercourse with who would be a would-be rapist, then frame him after she's done with him, and it's very easily done. Not to mention the norm of society seems to find things "to go the other way round" as an occurence which is impossible (or hard) to happen...
.... great, now my fear of such cases is increasing tenfold. I should've stayed my eyes off this topic!
in the US court system, if the girl says "no" even once
even if she dosnt mean it or is just talking dirty or whatever
its considered rape
So that basically means she can just play along and then say "NO!" after the "whole deal" is finished? Then the "offender", get prepared for the cops. Uh-oh, bad call.
This is a place holder to God knows when this owner will change his signature, if he ever thinks of it.
